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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:09 PM
  #876
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ghoffman

Got what you got in thrust today. Only I was running a 17 x 6 APC prop at 87-8800 rpm's, with idle down around 1770-1801..Surprised me to say the least. Was only expecting something around 13-14 pounds of thrust...If I knew how to get the pictures out of my Kodak program on to this forum I'd show everyone the pictures of everything I've just stated...All this with only 33 ounces of fuel through the engine..

Only problem so far with the engine is that coming down from high throttle to idle...the rpm's only drop down to around 3200 rpm's then after about 30-45 seconds the engine drops down to the 1770 idle..anyone have any ideas...needles are or have been set so from 1770 to full throttle the transition is smooth...when it does drop down to the 1770 it's not a gradual slow down from 3300 to 1770, it happens in a matter of 3-5 seconds and just sets there idling away.. Almost like someone switched a switch....Thinking it might have something to do with the timming in the ignition modual. Jody mention earllier in this thread about the special ignition to let the engine idle at a lower rpm. Anyone else having this occurance.

It's not as quick in the spool up as my YS 140, but reasonable and will get better with break in. ...The 8 pound 4 ounce Extra 260 this is going on will be a happy camper..

I think it was wrongway that mentioned the harmonics around 25-2700 rpm's...he was right...around those rpm's the monokote sounds like someone is beating on it with drum sticks...then it smooths right out..

If this engine has a good life span with no real issues, I will definetly get another one or two...
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: saintcreed

ghoffman

Only problem so far with the engine is that coming down from high throttle to idle...the rpm's only drop down to around 3200 rpm's then after about 30-45 seconds the engine drops down to the 1770 idle..anyone have any ideas...needles are or have been set so from 1770 to full throttle the transition is smooth...when it does drop down to the 1770 it's not a gradual slow down from 3300 to 1770, it happens in a matter of 3-5 seconds and just sets there idling away.. Almost like someone switched a switch....
Yep. I'm seeing the same thing!
Blip the throttle real quick will also bring the high idle back down.

Maybe Jody has an idea of why & a fix?
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:28 PM
  #878
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

This is usually indicative of a rich setting on the low speed needle
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! - 10/5/2010 2:28 AM


w8ye


That's what I thought also, but that isn't it...as a rule, not written in stone, rich low means a lag in the transition or loads up and dies, which I do not have. Also with a rich low needle, why after a few seconds it idles right down to 1770 and just set there ticking over, One would think rich low it wouldn't set there with that low of an idle and not flood out and stop running.I'm more than open to any thoughts. Always said to my men that two heads are better than one at times. Sometimes we over think things that are right there in front of us...that's why I was leaning towards the ingnition module and the so call preset timming for the low idle...this isn't my first gasser and I've never had one act quite like this from high to low throttle setting. I checked the timming from the factory and it was at 29 degrees.

Like I state open to suggestions or ideas...I don't walk on water yet therefore I don't know everything...that and they haven't put 6' of dirt over me so I'm still learning..

My first gasser using just one flight battery pak...2300mAh A123. 2 switches, Iso switch on the ign, along with a voltage reducer. Range check on the ground with and without the engine running checked out fine...Futaba 9CS 2.4 radio. and a 608 receiver.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I have seen the same thing in a glow engine. Needles are wrong.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

My guess is that you wanted a smooth idle & set it too lean. If not...it must be the ignition timing curve. I do believe some of these small gassers have carbs with too big of venturi. Put a smaller carb on & they may run great....with some loss at top end rpm. Capt,n
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:29 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

My idea of how to set the low needle in the engines I have is to set the low speed needle as lean as possible and still have the engine accelerate from a a full minute idle. That way I know where I'm at.

I also adjust the top end to obviously lean and then richen it up some so I know where I'm at.

I usually have to go back and forth a little between the high speed and low speed to make myself as happy as possible. The idle and mid range circuits are still in the carburettor throat slip stream even at full speed.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

quote>>>.If I knew how to get the pictures out of my Kodak program on to this forum I'd show everyone the pictures of everything I've just stated...
Download Picasa...it is free & works very good. Use a card reader (under $10) and place your camera media into reader. The photos will go into your Picasa album when you select Picasa. Once in your computer...you can send the photos & video clips about anywhere. Capt,n
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

That Kodak software was designed 30 yrs ago and has never been changed. Pure junk.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

Everyone is using the DLE 30 in the Funtanna 125.
Maybe everyone that likes to hover. Now that the DLE20 is on the market...only time will tell...but I agree with AV8TOR....the DLE 20 on a Funtanna 125 would really be a good combo! Capt.n
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Thanks Captain John, just seemed like a neat idea to me...

Re not coming back to idle quickly. Every time I have seen that it was due to a lean low needle. Richen the low needle 1/8 turn and see if it changes or still does it.

AV8TOR
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Exactly, and that's what Icounseled in my reply to his email.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:07 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

for the guys that are wondering about how it is on a 1/4 scale cub
i flew my sig 1/4 scale with it it has plenty of power got off the ground at half stick with a 17/6 zoar
it also fits under the cowl great only 1 hole below for the muff pipe
also my cub is 16 1/2 lbs
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:40 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I never got around to building a Sig 1/4 scale Cub, but I used to have a friend that had one. He flew his with a Zenoah G38 up front. Talk about needing power management. It would accelerate while climbing straight up. His Cub was no lightweight with plastic film covering. It had some kind of fabric and appeared to be painted in red and white. Yes, it was a Clipped Wing version. I'll bet the DLE 20 would be a great choice for that model, though I'd be tempted to use one of my heavier SV or Zenoah G26cc engines on it and save the DLE 20 for my Harrier 90.

Oh, I do have a World Model Clipped Wing Cub (1/4 scale) that needs an engine too. Maybe I'll put the SV 26cc engine on that.


Ed Cregger

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Old 10-05-2010, 03:14 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

W8YE/Jim,

Excellent tuning tips!
Obviously I need to work on my LS needle settings.

I'd add the following to your routine;
You'll know when your LS needle settings are too lean, when it's tough getting it started!

It's too lean on HS when it flames-out (no amount of excessive oil/fuel mix will protect those).

One &/or both are not right when it stumbles transistioning between low & high.
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:55 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The reason it won't come back down onto the idle right away is it's hot. A slightly richer low mixture will let it cool down quicker, like maybe as soon as you close the throttle. Blipping the throttle blows extra fuel and air through the combustion chamber cooling it down. If you could hit the choke for an instant, it would do the same thing.

That really low smooth idle is proof it's too lean. If it's right, it should have a slightly unsteady idle. Hard to describe....
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: captinjohn

I do believe some of these small gassers have carbs with too big of venturi. Put a smaller carb on & they may run great....with some loss at top end rpm. Capt,n
So very true as the G26 is a prime example of this.

Karol
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahicks

The reason it won't come back down onto the idle right away is it's hot. A slightly richer low mixture will let it cool down quicker, like maybe as soon as you close the throttle. Blipping the throttle blows extra fuel and air through the combustion chamber cooling it down. If you could hit the choke for an instant, it would do the same thing.

That really low smooth idle is proof it's too lean. If it's right, it should have a slightly unsteady idle. Hard to describe....
One of the most logical things I have read on RCU (or elsewhere) - logical and could very well be true. Thank you.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahicks
A slightly richer low mixture will let it cool down quicker, like maybe as soon as you close the throttle. Blipping the throttle blows extra fuel and air through the combustion chamber cooling it down.
That sounds very reasonable.
I'll try richening the LS first.

Luckily, no flameouts!!!

It sure hauls my AW PROX260 .90 size (7lb. 2oz.) around with gusto!
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

One way to learn the response of the engine to different needle settings is to change them and see what happens? Careful here?

However, it does more harm than good if you do not keep up with where you are at - relative to too rich or too lean. Know where you are at.

It would benefit the new person to more or less keep a log or diary on the needle adjustments with such data as needle position, fuel/oil relationship, weather, prop, etc with comments on how the engine ran. Otherwise, you are a lost sole?

Learn the sounds of the different conditions!

There are many inter-related factors leading up to having the engine correctly tuned and the skill to accomplish this is one learned over time with many different engines.

Some factors like a burble at mid throttle may have to be ignored for a particular engine in the interest of the bottom line . . .

Having good transitions and reliable running.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahicks

A slightly richer low mixture will let it cool down quicker, like maybe as soon as you close the throttle.
That fixed it right up!
Idling more consistantly now.

Thanks!
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

New Flight Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxMfHWzpWzQ

Don't expect anything spectacular. It was her first two flights... and I was nervous... haha...

Zinger 16x6. My Xoar 17x6 coming in the mail today. That should make big difference. I am very happy so far. Slight gurgle at low RPM and that same issue with the need to blip the throttle to get back to full idle. I will eventually adjust, but want get a few more flights in and see how it breaks in. Like I said, I wasn't doing anything over challenging so didn't put its "power" to any real test. On just straight up vertical, it seemed to climb with ease and felt like it could have went forever... I didn't want to push it just yet.

It was a tad nose heavy.... I already started moving stuff around.... can't wait to get that new prop and the lock nut I needed for my spinner. Re-balance... and get her back out there...... SO FAR, SO GOOD!!!
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

bells33,

Happy camper indeedy!!!

Slightly richen the low end and your idle will settle right in.

Do you have a pitts style muffler on yours?
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:19 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I have a 4 star 120, 12 lbs.... now flying with a saito 1.50.... would the 20 DLE be good for that airframe or would I be better off with the D:E 30? where should I be looking to purchase either engine?

Thanks... Richard
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The best after the sale support comes from Valley view.

But Tower Hobbies sells them as well as my brother in law and my sister's husband's first cousin etc.

Either engine wil fly the Four Star. It depends on how you want it to fly?
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