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Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

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Old 07-23-2010, 09:26 PM
  #51  
dave de
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I,m considering the offer from rcgf, but how will I know if the new one is any stronger.....
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:39 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

All you have to do is take the hub off and look at it. If it isn't obvious the hub is the same then just measure the inside diameter then measure the outside diameter then subtract.
I have seen pictures of the RCGF that distributors are selling and the hub looks exactly like mine.
They say the engines have had improvements but the hub surely isn't one of them. It still doesn't have a nice fillet on the engine side of the hub.

Their offer does nothing to insure that you will have a safe engine when you get a new one. You more than likely will just have paid an extra 1-1/2 times the price for the same engine. Nice little deal for them, they get another half price worth of money from you without losing anything.
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

aussiesteve, do you have any of them left over.......I want to replace mine
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

Ok, two questions:

1. Is the 45 engine any good, or would it be with a proper hub?

2. Is there anyone that provides or can provide a proper hub for the 45 and maybe the 26 also? If so, at what cost?

Thanks.

Richard
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:27 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!


Hey Richard,

I'll try to put in my 2c worth here.
Generally speaking, the 45 is quite a nice engine. At least the ones that were imported into Australia and then modified by Steve (genuine Walbro, billet machined hub, decent bearings etc, etc). It's hard to generalise on the 45 because there were so many variations and models but I think it was probably the best of the RCGF range at the time in terms of power and smoothness. Some of their engines were real dogs but the 45 was not bad at all.

I think any decent machine shop can make you a hub if you give them the one that came with your engine. The cost of a one-off job like that is bound to be quite high. It might even be as high as what you paid for the engine. I don't realy know. I just feel the factory should be including a decent hub. It really should be up to them to send you a billet machined hub or at least a hub with greater wall thickness. I cannot see any justification in buying an engine if you then have to spend another engine price to have it made safe


ORIGINAL: spaceworm

Ok, two questions:

1. Is the 45 engine any good, or would it be with a proper hub?

2. Is there anyone that provides or can provide a proper hub for the 45 and maybe the 26 also? If so, at what cost?

Thanks.

Richard
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:15 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

ORIGINAL: dave de

aussiesteve, do you have any of them left over.......I want to replace mine
No sorry Dave
I don't have any left - once the factory decided it didn't wish to respond to my e-mails any longer (all I did wrong was order some spare parts (that I was prepared to pay for even though most should have been warranty parts) and suggest a couple of quality changes to them - including these hubs) The only remaining RCGF stuff I have left is

1 x 50cc twin (current model and has been run on my test stand - it actually worked too - after I readjusted the timing to where it should be and set the carb needles from the closed position where they were supplied ),
2 x 150cc twins (that the factory supplied me as "promotion engines" in replacement of a very large amount of poor quality and unsaleable s- - - that they supplied me),
1 x 62cc(curent version in fact - except that arrived without an ignition)
1 x 65cc (that they kindly supplied me without any exhaust - still waiting for it),
1 x 20cc side carb that is waiting for them to supply me with the piston rings (apparently they are an optional extra - it came from the factory without them)
1 x 45cc - WITH one of my hubs on it.
1 x 100cc bottom feeder that is awaiting the factory to send me the right cylinders because the engine was supplied with 2 different cylinders on it.
1 x 100cc rear induction that is awaiting a reed assembly that will actually have some reeds in it that close (the ones supplied stayed off the reed block by about 3mm due to a warpage).
1 x 26cc that is awaiting a cylinder (the original came from the factory with the chrome pre-peeled.
1 x 50cc twin that is missing a crankshaft assembly (the one in it was supplied form the factory with one of the con rods ground down to make it clear the crankcase - I posted photos of that on another thread and you shoulda seen the PM's and e-mails I got from some of the newer distributors - real professional - I expect to see them again after this post).

All of the above is available - (make a reasonable offer for the job lot and I will give it fair consideration)

Oh - and about 14 assorted other engines that I had to strip to get parts to service my customers (mostly for warranty purposes) -
Then of course there are all the old warranty returns where I had to replace the entire engine for the customer because of the REALLY poor assembly and / or metallurgy from the factory

But they "never heard of that before" and I "must be cheating them" according to Catherine Tsang. (and yes - they are direct quotes from her)

The parts I am still waiting for (since January 2009 for most of them) ? - I am getting a little suspicious that they might not have sent them to me and maybe they won't either

Yep - "Beware" is a good beginning of the title of the thread - the 45 hubs are only a small part of the issues that this manufacturer burnt us with - there are plenty more - but most likely none as potentially deadly as this one.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:19 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

Steve,

My flying partner has most of a 26 he'll part with for a song. He would have got rid of it for free but RCGF did not have a store front window nearby. Never did find any of the engine from the woodruff keyway forward. There's a new prop and hub that's going to add a bit more wonder to Wonder Bread when they harvest that wheat field.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:44 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

This thread has been very informative - another "brand" of product to avoid like the plague.

Bliksem

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Old 07-25-2010, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

The sad thing is that this kind of a history is nothing unique to RCGF but it seems common in Chinese model engine manufacturing. Recently, we have been seeing some choice examples of exactly that! And it's not even limited to model engine manufacturing, many industrial goods from China seem to suffer from the same inconsistency in quality and the same business ethics - or lack thereof!
I guess when you have a product that is squarely aimed at a price point coupled with unscrupulous manufacturers that only care about that next order, this is what you get.

In contrast, we have seen numerous western manufacturers of quality products go to the wall because they couldn't compete on price with those outfits.
Others have lasted and become long standing, well known quality brands such as 3W, MVVS, Moki, Zenoah, BME and others.

We all want to get as much for the $$$ as possible but when it boils down to it, those "cheap" products are giving us less and less because first we spend a fair portion of the price of a good engine on this rubbish and we then spend that amount or more again on all kinds of fixes, modifications and improvements to get the product to do what it should have done in the first place.
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:07 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I had pretty much written RCGF off because of the way they do business and I still have. The only reason I bought this engine us because I was getting it new in the box with a new Jtec($90.00 retail) pitts muffler for less than one bought at a hobby shop. Except for the prop hub shearing off I knew what I was getting into with this engine because I have followed the history from the inception.
I am the one that started the huge RCGF thread that is two years old and still going. I saw a lot of potential in these engines and it looked promising but, as they say, the rest is history.
Too bad there are MANY unsuspecting RCGF customers out there that don't know how dangerous these 45cc engines are with this hub design.
If I ever see anyone with one at our field with one of these engines that has the stock hub they won't be allowed to fly it there.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I have the RCGF 45cc rear-intake engine I bought at the beginning of 2010 from a hobby shop. I emailed BPHobbies concerning their offer made on this thread,about a replacement hub, and for $15 plus my existing hub, they will ship one othe current versions.BPHobbies says their new configuration prop hubis machined from a billet, as are the hubs in the current production engines, andis backward compatible to all 45 cc versions.

Even though I have not had any failures, I will replace my 45cc hub (send it to BPHwith $15). In my opinion, this ismostreasonable solution for a potential safety issue, and I do appreciate BPHobbies' offer.

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Old 07-25-2010, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

Cheers for BP.
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Old 07-25-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!


ORIGINAL: rfk1381

I have the RCGF 45cc rear-intake engine I bought at the beginning of 2010 from a hobby shop. I emailed BP Hobbies concerning their offer made on this thread, about a replacement hub, and for $15 plus my existing hub, they will ship one othe current versions. BP Hobbies says their new configuration prop hub is machined from a billet, as are the hubs in the current production engines, and is backward compatible to all 45 cc versions.

Even though I have not had any failures, I will replace my 45cc hub (send it to BPH with $15). In my opinion, this is most reasonable solution for a potential safety issue, and I do appreciate BP Hobbies' offer.

In all fairness, now that is has been established that the included hubs on those engines are inferior, some might argue outright damgerous, I struggle with understanding why the Distributor would charge the customer to remedy the fault.
It's like taking your engine in for warranty service and then receive an invoice for the parts used.

If you are happy with spending more money on this engine (which most likely came from BP in the first place, given the purchase date), by all means go ahead. I just still feel this part should be replaced at no charge to you and be delivered with an apology from the manufacturer
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

That is one thing I have never understood about some companies that sell RC product, You have a product, You know a part is faulty but yet you want to charge the customer for the replacement part.

I have been selling RC products for eight years and China made engines for 3 ½ years and have never charged a customer to replace a faulty product. I have even rebuilt engine that had a two year warranty on them that were three years old because I knew it had the faulty part in it when it was sold to the customer.

There was a time it took me a while because I had to wait on parts to do it, but the were all repaired.

If you are going to import products and sell them, be prepared to back them up or stop selling them.
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!



$15 to replace the prop hub, which includes the cost of return shipping, seems like avery fair offer, especially since my hub shows no sign of stress. Tome it isinsurance forpeace of mind. $15 is equal to a couple of those Starbucks fancy coffees or a couple of packs of coffin nails...

Movingon,case is solved for me.

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Old 07-25-2010, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!


ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx

That is one thing I have never understood about some companies that sell RC product, You have a product, You know a part is faulty but yet you want to charge the customer for the replacement part.

You bring up an interesting point. There's a major radio name that has been doing exactly as you describe for a few years now. What's amazing is how the users are too dumb to see it and swear by the brand name as if there is nothing better on the planet. Brand loyalty took on a new dimension when it was applied to rc products. It's absolutely incomprehensible.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:29 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I sincerely hope that replacement hub is an actual billet machined hub, not just another of the cast ones
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

So do I. I''ll let you all know...
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

The new hub is not going to do much good if it is not machined with a radius in the inside corners of the flanges
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:31 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

Let me clarify a few issues. BP Hobbies has been distributing RCGF engines for one year now. We have shipped over 500 engines in this time and have had only a hand full with minor problems. RCGF especially, Catherine has been more than responsive to our requests for parts and service. In the 50+ years we have been selling RC products I could not ask for a better supplier. We receive a shipment of engines and parts ever 30 days and they have been more than open to our suggestions for improvements to the engines. The offer made from BP Hobbies to replace prop hubs comes from the owner of BP. He wanted to help resolve the issue. We get no short term profit from this support.We are in this business for the long term goal of having happy customers.
It is important to note that Catherine has offered to replace Blake’s engine for free. As of this time Blake has not responded to her emails.
What is puzzling is that RC Aero that sold the engine and made the profit from it has not responded to the thread. Since RC Aero private labeled the engines, the responsibility for replacing or repairing the engine falls on RC Aero. We are just trying to help.
Take a look at the attached pictures showing the differences between the old hubs and the new hubs. These are the prop hubs that come on the current engines, what we call V2 versions. We have been shipping these hubs for several months now. They are stronger and run truer.
I fly every weekend with these engines and have not had one problem. Many fliers in my club use them and love them.

It is not normal for us to conduct customer support business over forums. So if you have any questions regarding your RCGF engine,pleasefeel free to contact usby phone 732-287-3933 orby email (support@bphobbies.com).
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

ORIGINAL: gringopete

Let me clarify a few issues. BP Hobbies has been distributing RCGF engines for one year now. We have shipped over 500 engines in this time and have had only a hand full with minor problems. RCGF especially, Catherine has been more than responsive to our requests for parts and service. In the 50+ years we have been selling RC products I could not ask for a better supplier. We receive a shipment of engines and parts ever 30 days and they have been more than open to our suggestions for improvements to the engines. The offer made from BP Hobbies to replace prop hubs comes from the owner of BP. He wanted to help resolve the issue. We get no short term profit from this support. We are in this business for the long term goal of having happy customers.
It is important to note that Catherine has offered to replace Blake’s engine for free. As of this time Blake has not responded to her emails.
What is puzzling is that RC Aero that sold the engine and made the profit from it has not responded to the thread. Since RC Aero private labeled the engines, the responsibility for replacing or repairing the engine falls on RC Aero. We are just trying to help.
Take a look at the attached pictures showing the differences between the old hubs and the new hubs. These are the prop hubs that come on the current engines, what we call V2 versions. We have been shipping these hubs for several months now. They are stronger and run truer.
I fly every weekend with these engines and have not had one problem. Many fliers in my club use them and love them.

It is not normal for us to conduct customer support business over forums. So if you have any questions regarding your RCGF engine, please feel free to contact us by phone 732-287-3933 or by email (support@bphobbies.com).
Wow - that's a very long time -

Ok, Henry is on vacation, that is why he hasn't responded.

I do have some specific information though. The last shipment made (direct to one of their customers - a significant number of engines in fact - close to half of your years total number) was made only a few months ago and they were delivered direct to the RC Aero customer - (there was in fact a very high number of duds in that shipment - I saw the e-mails about them).

Yep - from my own experience and that of others, I would say you have another 6 months to a year left before "the pugnacious princess" appears. How they are still responding to so many suggestions for improvements amazes me. Why do I say this?

Because since at least 2006, Myself, Henry, Andreas, Pat, Ali and many many others have been suggesting improvements to quality of the product. If they are still responding to suggestions after all that time, it indicates to me that they have not heeded Or kept very many of the suggestions at all.

IF they were serious about QC, they would have changed the hub design long ago when it was first mentioned to them. (I first mentioned it to them in July 2008 when I got the batch of replacements made). Fact is - they did nothing until now when they were forced to do so. SO this forum has served a very valuable business purpose.

If they cared about customer service or had a traceable QC process, they would be able to track who they sold the engines with the cheap hubs to - they would be sending the replacements out out, free of charge to those buyers and asking them to send them on to the affected customers. Instead, they simply have done what they are good at doing - adding to their e-mail contacts list instead.

I do sincerely applaud your efforts to help out on a product you made absolutley no profit on - but should you have to? The factory, via Catherine Tsang, has known about the issue for well over a year - in fact 2 days off 2 years and they are now only just doing something about it.


Ok - one small last question (well 2 really)
will they supply replacement props and help to modify the planes so the new hubs can be used?

I see a different bolt pattern and a shorter hub in those photos. - it probably isn't a "like for like" swap
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I'm waiting to see how the prop shaft extension works out. With the stuff they sent me you could not determine which adapter you were going to need. Square base or round base. Your engine could be cut for a square base but be installed or shipped with a round base that could not fit correctly. I see they are still having trouble drilling prop washers with the correctly sized hole for the screw diameter used.

Good luck BP. You're going to need it. I don't know how you figure you foks will be able to correct a manufacturer attitude towards the customer.

I wish you all the success you can obtain, and all the profitability possible under the circumstances. Hopefully none of the engines ever come apart and cause physical harm to someone in America. If and when that happens you and one or two other U.S. distributors will be the ones paying for 100% of the liability claims. I doubt you'd be able to connect a phone call to the manufacturer in that event.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

Sorry but I have received no emails. I checked my spam folder but nothing was there. I would have responded to her by now if I had gotten an email. What email address did she use?
I like the look of the new hub but will it fit my engine and does it come with the new center bolt?
You can see difference in the metal from the old hub and the new one.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

I do see the fillet at the transitions, and the design looks stronger. But, are they still cast and machined? Or machined from billet, which the preferred way? I see no mention of the material, whether it is an improved alloy, or especially that it is billet, not cast. Thanks.

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Old 07-26-2010, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: Warning: RCGF 45 Owners!

aussiestve, I glad to hear you mention that about the props. Just before this thread was started ( of coarse ) I paid 100.00 for 4 props & have already drilled them for the old still hub. Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
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