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-   -   Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/10262519-neoprene-washers-gas-tank-fail-fast.html)

on_your_six 01-14-2011 06:37 AM

Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I bought a nice Bennett specialties tank for my new Extra 330... I like the tank, is it the best tank I have ever used. However the black neoprene washers disintegrated after less than 10 flights over two months...

I looked in the tank and saw black pieces floating around... no more flights until that is fixed... today, I pulled the tank and found the washers to have almost disintegrated into tiny bits and pieces... I bought new neoprene washers at home despot.. and installed adding small steel flat washers to make sure I get a better seal with more material being compressed.

Still love the tank but thought it was worth mentioning...

Now I am off to check the carb screen. I expect to find small pieces of the original washers, but hope not....

Lnewqban 01-14-2011 06:48 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Then, the washers were not made of Neoprene.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoprene

Zeeb 01-14-2011 07:52 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Wikipedia is not what one might call the "final" authority on anything although it does have quite a bit of good information, that said; there's more than one flavor of neoprene and some of it doesn't hold up to gasoline at all however another consideration is that most fuel sold in the USA now has some alcohol in it and that can also cause issues with some types of neoprene. This is easily demonstrated by the number of similar gaskets that come in say Walbro carb kits and those are different materials to cope with that nasty alcohol.

You might also consider that manufacturers have different material for gasoline vs. alcohol like a DuBro tank stopper; one color/type is for glow fuel and a different color/type is for gasoline.

I'm not sure what might have caused the OP's issue as it's been quite some time since I used one of those tanks and it was in a gasser with no problems. Perhaps something else is going on with the OP's fuel supply? Or maybe it's an issue with a supplier to B&B? Somewhat similar to what happened with Sullivan who's fuel tank stoppers were doing the same thing when used with gasoline?

For the OP; did you contact B&B to see what they've got to say?

on_your_six 01-14-2011 09:07 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I have not contacted B&B Specialties... yet... The original "neoprene" washer was almost dissolving... I thought I would wait a bit to see if anyone else had that same problem before I said anything. It could be a supplier issue.. I would expect the tank and accessories to be appropriate for a gas plane... 32oz tank... It does say "gas tank system" and I specifically looked for anything about nitro... nothing

I am running regular unleaded Sunoco gas with stihl Oil 50:1 mixture.... At first I though it was an assembly issue, like screwing it down too tight... but the material is actually deteriorating.

The replacement washers from Home Despot only say neoprene... no other instructions or usage... what can you expect for $0.73? I will keep an eye on them.

This did happen rather quickly in my opinion...

Tired Old Man 01-14-2011 09:21 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
The black stopper disintegration issue used to be common to Sullivan tanks but this is the first I have ever heard of it happening with Bennett tanks. So I have to ask if you're certain you used the product that came with the tank or accidentally picked one up from the bench and substituted?

on_your_six 01-14-2011 09:23 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Absolutely 110% sure of that. No question about it. I used exactly what came with the tank... kept the tank in the package for a month until the moment I installed it.

Again... the tank is the best tank I have probably ever installed and this is not to bash manuf... I think that I have dealt with my problem... so it is kind of a heads up for others.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

The black stopper disintegration issue used to be common to Sullivan tanks but this is the first I have ever heard of it happening with Bennett tanks. So I have to ask if you're certain you used the product that came with the tank or accidentally picked one up from the bench and substituted?

Scar 01-14-2011 09:26 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I have witnessed the results of some bean-counter making a material substitution in the case of neoprene seals. Rubber is cheap, Neoprene is expensive, so the accountant makes the engineering decision to substitute the less expensive seal. (without notifying engineering.)

Result : Lots of warranty.

Sounds to me like someone in the supply chain made a substitution based on cost.

Just my 2¢ worth,
Dave Olson

Lnewqban 01-14-2011 10:33 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I have seen neoprene lasting years in contact with gasoline.
I have seen what should have been neoprene desintegrate in no time.

Alcohol may be a factor, as mentioned above, but not for such speed and degree of mechanical decay.

Whatever the reason may be, I believe the manufacturer should learn about this case and avoid or correct a bad bash of seals.
Those seals are indeed a critical link for the advertised "leak-proof fittings" of the Mastertanks.

STUKA BARRY 01-14-2011 12:08 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Just give Dick a call, he'll make it right, thats the kind of manufacturer/modeler he is. He stands behind his products.

on_your_six 01-14-2011 02:43 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Listen... I am sure he is a stand up guy... but we are talking $0.73 and the time to replace them... so I am not looking for anyone to do anything and as I said before.

I am very happy with the tank. No disgruntled customer here... just letting other know what I saw here... Maybe if you are installing a new tank yourself, take a ride over to the hardware store and buy some "real" neoprene washers.

If you have one of these tanks bought in the last couple of months, you might want to keep an eye on it...


JVB 01-15-2011 04:23 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Where did you use the neoprene washers??

Zeeb 01-15-2011 09:18 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Listen... I am sure he is a stand up guy... but we are talking $0.73 and the time to replace them... so I am not looking for anyone to do anything and as I said before.

I am very happy with the tank. No disgruntled customer here... just letting other know what I saw here... Maybe if you are installing a new tank yourself, take a ride over to the hardware store and buy some ''real'' neoprene washers.

If you have one of these tanks bought in the last couple of months, you might want to keep an eye on it...


Well let me gently suggest part of the reason we mentioned contacting B&B is similar to your first post advising other users; B&B may have more ideas than represented here, yours may not be the only tank with issues, not necessarily just getting you going again although that is the main point of the anwers here... ;)

Tired Old Man 01-15-2011 09:35 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
None of the B&B tanks I use have any "washers". The cap simply screws onto the tank. The fittings are installed after drilling holes for where you want them to be. No washers on those either. Washers must be something germain to small tanks.

spaceworm 01-15-2011 01:38 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I have the greatest respect for Bennett and use his mufflers and have a ALPINA A330 gasser of his, but, maybe Bennett bought some Sullivan tanks and remarketed them, not being aware of the Sullivan neoprene problem?

Sincerely, Richard

on_your_six 01-15-2011 01:47 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
You know something... I cannot be absolutely positively sure that I got the "neoprene" washers with the package, but I am fairly certain... since I had never used the product before, I usually don't go off page unless I have a problem...I try to use the product as recommended. The second thing is that Home Despot does not sell the size of "neoprene" washer that disintegrated... because I was looking for the same size to go back in.. I had to settle on a larger size. I am absolutely sure I would not have gone elsewhere, because HD is about three blocks from me.

"adding small steel flat washers to make sure I get a better seal with more material being compressed. "
from OP.

this is a rather large tank with a 1-1/2+/- screw on top... I don't know if Sullivan makes something like that.

It happened... It is fixed... if you have one of these tanks, it might be worth a quick look. The rest of it is probably all just a figment of my imagination.

804 01-15-2011 02:41 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I've installed 4 of these in the last couple of years, all 16 0z. tanks and have never seen any washers at all.
I just tighten the fittings right to the tank, usually one in the cap and two on top, and never any problems.

pilotpete2 01-15-2011 02:47 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I use the B & B tanks and like them very much. From my experience they do not come with any washer or "O" ring for the fittings. I just looked at their website, no washers are shown.
I did have some very small leakage with my setups. I use neoprene "O" rings from the auto store. One season, two models with them, and no leaks or sign of disintegration.
Pete

JVB 01-15-2011 04:21 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Yeah, Red Green!!

Rcpilot 01-15-2011 07:18 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

I like the tank, is it the best tank I have ever used.
You ain't tried a Fiji water bottle tank yet.................... ;)

About 1/3 the weight.

You can SEE through it, so inspections at the field are a cinch. Think your clunk line came off? Look inside the canopy and check it out.

Buy one of these:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXBWL6&P=ML

A gas stopper:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD755&P=7

And build it. Take ya 10 minutes. You'll never buy another Sullivan, DuBro or B&B tank again.

Tired Old Man 01-15-2011 08:09 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
How's the availibiltiy of caps for 60+ ounce bottles?

Rcpilot 01-15-2011 08:17 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I've seen 1/2g bottles of oil at my local grocery store. My "fiji" bottle was actually a 20oz bottle of peanut oil in a former life.

They are out there. Not too hard to find. Just don't look around in the bottled water section - look in the oil section.

Flyfast1 01-15-2011 08:48 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
it would be better if the tank manufacturers, Dubro, Sullivan, etc., used transparent material for their tanks. Perhaps it's the chemical composition of the material?

-Ed B.

anthonymio 01-15-2011 09:57 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I just installed a 16oz B&B Master Tank and can confirm that the tank fittings do not use washers or "O' rings. The instructions that came with the tank do not show the installation of any washer or "O" ring. In my experience with these tanks, a washer is not required to get a good seal on the tank.

B&B does sell fueling fittings that are mounted to the fuselage and which have caps. These fittings come with a rubber “O” ring that is mounted under the cap. However, these are not intended to be used on the fuel tank.

Tony M.

Tired Old Man 01-15-2011 11:00 PM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
I was quite curious about that. None of the b&B tanks I've used have ever had a rubber or other bung or sealing ring on the tank. The caps just screw on tightly. I have never had one leak but I've heard of caps leaking after a few years at hairline cracks in the caps. Just replace the cap if that would ever happen.

Lnewqban 01-16-2011 07:23 AM

RE: Neoprene Washers in Gas Tank Fail Fast
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyfast1

it would be better if the tank manufacturers, Dubro, Sullivan, etc., used transparent material for their tanks. Perhaps it's the chemical composition of the material?

-Ed B.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFU74&P=7

(Editted: See correction in Post #31)


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