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KitBuilder 10-05-2012 10:00 AM

Gas ignition options
 
I'm in the market for a my first gas engine sized 26 to30cc in the next few months and I read about generally two types of ignition, Magneto and electronic. Is magneto used much anymore? And ... do all electonic ignitions advance timing as the engine speed increases. It seems I've seen "add on" module required for that?

I'm leaning toward a DLE only because they're a brand name and message boards seem to indicate few problems out of the box... as well being my first gas motor I'm not looking for a steep learning curve if it doesn't run fairly easily beyong normal break in issues, etc I've read other less expensive motors requiring filing here and drilling here to get them ot run right.

I'm very familiar with glow 2 and 4 storke and an avid builder and plan to put the gas motor in the BUSA 1/4 DR1 kit.

Appreciate any replies..

vertical grimmace 10-05-2012 10:23 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
I had a Fokker DR1 for 9 years. It had a Saito 180 in it most of that time but I put a DLE 30 in for the last year of it's life. Great airplane, you will love it.
That being said, If I were to build another in 1/4 scale (I am looking at the new 1/3rd scale closely) I would put a Zenoah G38 in with the spring starter. I have this combo in my Fokker DVII and it works perfectly everytime. It would be a perfect sized powerplant for the tripe.
It is a mag engine and what is nice here is one less battery, kill switch to worry about. The DLE 30 is a good engine as well and would work just fine. THe DLE line are great and I own a 50, 30 and the 20. My 50 is the old DL model.

One thing, If you never listen to anything else I ever say listen closely to this about gassers......DO NOT use a stopper style tank with gasoline. Even Dubro! Get the fittongs to make a Fiji water bottle tank, or get a Bennett built tank. The screw on lids will never leak and make servicing the inside a breeze. This was the biggest problem I had when I was new to gas.

Good luck, you will love gas.

Ernie Misner 10-05-2012 10:36 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Is purchasing the SASSYA (made in USA) ignition module for chinese engines an option?

BarracudaHockey 10-05-2012 10:49 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
The DLE ignitions work just fine and DLE is distributed by Great Planes, sold by Tower and the other retailers, and supported by Hobby Services.

About the only thing worth doing to them out of the box is a Frank Bowman piston ring but thats nice not needed.

RC Extreme Power www.rcextremepower.net has replacement ignitions for DLE and others.

VG, I have a GT80 that I converted to electronic because those spring starters scare the snot out of me :)

Truckracer 10-05-2012 10:50 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Is purchasing the SASSYA (made in USA) ignition module for chinese engines an option?
Syssa uses the Chinese built Rcexl ignition just like most other engines these days! The engine may be made in the USA, but not the ignition module! Buy it from Syssa or any one of many other sources.

ahicks 10-05-2012 11:01 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Syssa engines use Rcexl ign. modules - the universal version that doesn't have any bad habits.

If buying a new "30" class engine today, I would go with the new 35cc DLE for it's rear exhaust configuration. DLE because it's easy to find support. Yes it's a little more money, but the upside is that it comes with a pitts type exhaust as standard (vs. those aftermarket ones costing 75-100) and the fact it will fit more cowls without hacking them up (a big deal to me).

KitBuilder 10-05-2012 12:25 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
The zenoahs are to much $$ right now. I read the rcecxl ignitions allow for a much better / smoother / lower idle.. is that correct. I'm hoping to use the stock ignition on the DLE and not pay another 90 beans for so just to replace with something better. Maybe down the road but for now stock is my choice / option. I'm not concerned about the battery for the ignition and for the kill switch... I assume it's a simple as mounting a switch in the cockpit that i can flick on and off?

pe reivers 10-05-2012 12:38 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
RCexl all the way for smooth, trouble free performance. They are as reliable as electronic ignitions get. (Mag ignitions are ultra reliable)

Truckracer 10-05-2012 12:38 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: KitBuilder

The zenoahs are to much $$ right now. I read the rcecxl ignitions allow for a much better / smoother / lower idle.. is that correct. I'm hoping to use the stock ignition on the DLE and not pay another 90 beans for so just to replace with something better. Maybe down the road but for now stock is my choice / option. I'm not concerned about the battery for the ignition and for the kill switch... I assume it's a simple as mounting a switch in the cockpit that i can flick on and off?
DLE engines also use the Rcexl ignition. In fact, most of the Chinese and many other engines use this very reliable ignition.

You are correct, the ignition will require its own battery and on-off switch. In some cases, you can also use a IBEC or Ignition Battery Eliminator Circuit that powers the ignition from the receiver battery and also provides a means to shut off the engine from the transmitter. This circuit does not require an additional switch. But ..... for your first gasser I would recommend the separate battery and switch.

Have you read this thread yet? It will answer many of your questions.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/tm.htm

earlwb 10-05-2012 02:00 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
There aren't too many engines to choose from out there with magneto ignition on them at this time. They have been going away gradually as the engines with electronic ignition systems are pushing them out.  Usually the magneto ignition engines weigh considerably more than a electronic igntiion equipped engine.  But there are some magneto equipped  engines that don't give up much in weight though.  But a heavier magneto equipped engine could be a big plus with certain airplanes that have a short nose on them, as that means you don't have to add much, if any, extra lead weight to it, to get the CG setup on it. A magneto system is very reliable and doesn't have a battery to rundown on you or need to be recharged either. But the electronic ignition systems can be really good and offer really good performance too. So it would be a difficult choice to choose between the different types in some cases.



AJsToyz 10-05-2012 02:37 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
C&H makes a smaller ignition for these engines

ahicks 10-05-2012 03:18 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Just my opinion, but thinking magneto engines might require a little more patience to start for a gas rookie?

Ernie Misner 10-05-2012 04:06 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Magneto ignitions don't have any advance system though do they, just fixed timing? Don't throw wrenches at me or anything, just an honest question - the magneto setups don't still have points do they? If not they would have to be a hybrid magneto / electronic igniton it seems like.

Thanks, Ernie

mrbigg 10-05-2012 04:09 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
G38 with a mag is super easy to start. I have OPs DR1 with said engine. Perfect weight for balance with all radio gear forward. Zenoahs too expensive? Did you add the ignition battery cost and hassle of charging? If you need electronic go with a ZP38. Same engine with electronic ignition but cheaper.

vertical grimmace 10-05-2012 04:40 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: KitBuilder

The zenoahs are to much $$ right now. I read the rcecxl ignitions allow for a much better / smoother / lower idle.. is that correct. I'm hoping to use the stock ignition on the DLE and not pay another 90 beans for so just to replace with something better. Maybe down the road but for now stock is my choice / option. I'm not concerned about the battery for the ignition and for the kill switch... I assume it's a simple as mounting a switch in the cockpit that i can flick on and off?
Buy a used one. Very plentiful. As most people want e-ignitions

OliverJacob 10-05-2012 06:48 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
My gassers all have an electronic ignition. I have seen one (old) magneto engine and it was a brick.
They are good for a few planes, especially warbirds which often need the nose weight.

Zenoahs are very reliable, but their are more expensive and their igniton systems draw more current then others.
I have a 20 cc in a heli and this draws about 2 amps vs 0.5 amps in most RCexl ignitons. Not a real problem, bust something to watch out for.

I also have a 30cc DLE, which is a great engine, starts right up and is easy to tune. The price is very reasonable and this brand has become very popular, I am sure you will get spare parts for many more years.



bcchi 10-05-2012 09:30 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: AJsToyz

C&H makes a smaller ignition for these engines
It is CH-Ignitions now not C&H.Yes Adrian builds a smaller lighter IGNITION now.
BCCHI AMA 2500.

mrbigg 10-06-2012 03:05 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
The ZP engines don't use the high draw ignitions that Zenoah uses.

BadAzzMaxx 10-06-2012 05:09 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
True, They now use RCexl ignitions. Also Saito uses RCexl.

Milton


Quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbigg

The ZP engines don't use the high draw ignitions that Zenoah uses.

cloudancer03 10-06-2012 05:53 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
two good places!!!! valleyview rc for genuine and auality service! they are great with DLE's..and Todd syassa in connecticut. he makes a very very good 30cc gas engine.plus his igntion systems are second to none(IMO only).I am selling off the last of my 2 strokes before they are virtually worthless $$$ wise..my satios and os four strokes cost me dearly and I still enjoy them so regardless of whatever direction the hobby goes they will always be with me.

as for magneto versus electronic igntion.there is no doubt in my experience that electronic igntions are lighter and in the long run easier to operate.having said that and owing several zenoahs magneto is inexpensive and very reliable just a weight issue I guess.if weight is an issue with you go the igntion route.once a motor is properly broken in and maintained magneto's are simple and reliable. the first start up when its cold can present a bit of a challenge but after that its easy the rest of the day.

captinjohn 10-06-2012 06:49 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Magneto ignitions don't have any advance system though do they, just fixed timing? Don't throw wrenches at me or anything, just an honest question - the magneto setups don't still have points do they? If not they would have to be a hybrid magneto / electronic igniton it seems like.

Thanks, Ernie
I put a timing light on a Mb290 29cc gas enngine (with a mag) and too my surprise, they do have advance. Look up different brands of magneto systems...you will see that indeed it is true. Capt,n

Truckracer 10-06-2012 08:46 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudancer03

..and Todd syassa in connecticut. he makes a very very good 30cc gas engine.plus his igntion systems are second to none(IMO only).
And the Syssa ignition is made by Rcexl in China. Pretty much just a standard, off the shelf ignition for a CM-6 plug.

vertical grimmace 10-06-2012 11:06 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
Now that gas engines are being use used for more than just Giant IMAC type competition aerobatic models, the race for light weight is not so much an issue anymore. Scale and warbird models need the nose weight, so magnetos are welcome here.
It seems now if a smaller lighter E-ignition could be created, it could usher in a whole new small sized gas engine. Right now it seems the 20cc is about as small as you can practically go, having to carry the ignition and another battery. I know there is a 9 cc, but wing loading will go up unless a
bec is used for ignition as well. Somewhat of a sketchy prospect IMO tying the ignition power source to the radio.

ahicks 10-06-2012 11:47 AM

RE: Gas ignition options
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

Now that gas engines are being use used for more than just Giant IMAC type competition aerobatic models, the race for light weight is not so much an issue anymore. Scale and warbird models need the nose weight, so magnetos are welcome here.
It seems now if a smaller lighter E-ignition could be created, it could usher in a whole new small sized gas engine. Right now it seems the 20cc is about as small as you can practically go, having to carry the ignition and another battery. I know there is a 9 cc, but wing loading will go up unless a
bec is used for ignition as well. Somewhat of a sketchy prospect IMO tying the ignition power source to the radio.
Once you get your head wrapped around the single battery components and setup (IBEC or whatever), and you get a chance to use it a couple of times, the hassle of dealing with an extra battery (as well as it's weight) is something you won't miss for long...

You might check with CH Ignitions regarding the smaller ign. module?

KitBuilder 10-09-2012 07:23 PM

RE: Gas ignition options
 
MBRIG:
" Zenoahs too expensive? Did you add the ignition battery cost and hassle of charging?"

Dont have any issues with batteries or charging... I fly electrics and glow both using all sorts of batteries and I have the charger to handle it all so that cost is not a concern. Just seemed the Zenoahs were pricey and with one heading to college in and one in pvt school... I'm jus being frugal where I can.

The DLE looks to give me more motor for less cost. If only money wasn't an issue :).

My understanding was with the magnetos the timing didnt advance or retard with engine speed but stayed constant as the magnets passed by??

All good info here... Im a bit away from the purchase but hoping Santa will pick one up for me so I can spend my saved up beans on the 1/4 DR1...


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