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-   -   Copperhead Venom 45 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/5222154-copperhead-venom-45-a.html)

dhooks 01-06-2007 08:08 PM

Copperhead Venom 45
 
Seen a couple ppl asking questions about these moters an ran across a review a some guy did on the 45 the other day. http://tech.flygsw.org/ I thought it was a good article

Ive had two of the 45cc an had great luck with them. First class ppl to deal with, I even lost the prop nut an washer to one an they shipped me another free of charge. Cant beat that with a stick.:D


The only thing the guy mentioned in the review really was the ignition an I heard a rumour that there upgrading to fully electronic advance.

I was getting low to mid 7s on props in the 20x10 -22x8 range very simliar to the review.

Just wondering if Copperhead could comment on the ignition?

Flyer Freq 01-07-2007 12:54 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Very interesting, Dan! Thanks for directing us to this site!

Andy

azhar 01-07-2007 10:45 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
I agree with dhooks. The engine runs very strong. I am not sure about the ignition as it works fine on mine. I will be posting numbers on the engine soon. I have hit a minor snag and am waiting for a part from them. And weather currently sucks in the NW. I will be posting numbers for the Xoar 20x8 and Beila 19x10 3-blade. Will also post numbers with other sizes as I get the props.

Azhar

Flyer Freq 01-07-2007 11:21 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
The numbers for thrust sound too good to be true. I wonder if those were actual measured numbers or calculated numbers, based on a program like Thrust HP, which we all know to be "off".

dhooks 01-07-2007 11:43 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Its calculated Im sure, if it were real it would be as strong as most 70cc engines.:D

Im guessing he uses it to quantify between engines which is useful.

Based on my 18lb extra its probably in the mid 20lb range which lines up with my other 50cc moters Ive had.

dhooks 01-07-2007 11:48 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: azhar

I agree with dhooks. The engine runs very strong. I am not sure about the ignition as it works fine on mine. I will be posting numbers on the engine soon. I have hit a minor snag and am waiting for a part from them. And weather currently sucks in the NW. I will be posting numbers for the Xoar 20x8 and Beila 19x10 3-blade. Will also post numbers with other sizes as I get the props.

Azhar
The ignition is good, its just some ppl dont like the mechenical advance for whatever reasons. Im guessing there would be broader market appeal for a fully electronic advance system.

mfuess 01-08-2007 10:46 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Greetings Gentleman!

I am the engineer and host of the GSW Tech Site. I'm glad you found the information regarding the Venom 45 useful. Yes, the thrust numbers were calculated to set a benchmark for "live" testing. I've flown on a large number of props to determine where the powerband really is, and see which props take advantage of this massive stroker (for its size). The Pro Zinger 22x8 is (by far) the best prop to get maximum torque from the Venom 45. While the "suggested" props work OK, they tend to rev beyond the engines torque curve. I did a side by side comparison to my BME 50 and the V 45 can, and will out pull the BME under controlled conditions. However, nothing replaces displacement when it comes down to brutal flying power.

The Venom 45 is a supereme engine, especially for the price! Will it replace a BME 50, DA 50, G62, etc.? In a word no. the 50cc+ engines are in a class by themselves. BUT the V45 will certainly replace virtually all 45cc engines and a few 50cc engines with power to spare.

Regarding the ignition. Yes I had some issues with the OEM module but Tim (at Copperhead) has sent a replacement. Meanwhile, I am using a CH module with Syncro-spark and it works excellent. My understanding from Tim is, they are in the process of upgrading their ignition. I am very familiar with the ignition he is considering and it's fantastic! It's very reliable, low current draw, and has a full scale spark advance.

Bookmark my Tech Site as I will be updating the Venom 45 Review as the engine gets lots of air-miles on it. I don't mind telling you, that you get maximum bang for the engine buck with these engines.

dhooks 01-08-2007 01:53 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Right from the horses mouth! Not calling you a horse though....:D

Your results line up closesly with what Ive saw with my two engines. I believe you went to a little more trouble to document your data though.

You havent got the 30cc by chance do you?

mfuess 01-08-2007 02:08 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Dan,

I don't have the Venom 30cc engine. It's a little small for my airplane applications, but from what I've seen it appears to be another winner. It has excellent weight, and good HP for its size. I'd stack it up against any G38, and possibly even my modified G38. I may have to talk Tim into sending me one for evaluation purposes...


dhooks 01-08-2007 02:26 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: mfuess



The Venom 45 is a supereme engine, especially for the price! Will it replace a BME 50, DA 50, G62, etc.? In a word no. the 50cc+ engines are in a class by themselves. BUT the V45 will certainly replace virtually all 45cc engines and a few 50cc engines with power to spare.



Bookmark my Tech Site as I will be updating the Venom 45 Review as the engine gets lots of air-miles on it. I don't mind telling you, that you get maximum bang for the engine buck with these engines.
That was my thought to, it wont directly compete with a 50-60cc engine strictly due to the displacement thing. But for half the price with 95% of the performance of the current crop of *name brand* engines there isnt much downside.

Especially with all the newer crop of 13-16lb planes out there which they will rock on. I had one on a 18lb WH extra an had enough ump to hover TR an pull out. Plus its about 6oz lighter then the current 50cc stuff.

novabill 01-08-2007 07:48 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
:D

mfuess 01-09-2007 07:02 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
There's an ignition upgrade on the horizon for Venom engines. It will be automatic spark advance, so the linkage will be history.
http://tech.flygsw.org/copperhead_ign.jpg
This ignition will greatly enhance performance and appearance. At this time, I have no idea when these will be available but there's no doubt Tim will do everything possible to get them in.

azhar 01-09-2007 11:02 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
I just got my part and should be running the engine this weekend again. Hope to put numbers up with XOAR 20x8 and Beil 19x10 (3-blade). Talked to Tim about the ignition and what mfuess said is definitely on the horizon.

Azhar

SkyBurner 01-09-2007 07:34 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
How much $$ is the ing. upgrade going to add to Price? Still thinking of trying one, mmight as well hold out for the upgrade.

Mitsu1 01-09-2007 09:41 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Hey Guys, ... I had my feelers out for a light weight gasser along the lines of the older BME 44, and when I couldn't find one, I ran into this thread. I went to the manufacturers website, then to the site Dhooks mentioned ... "Marks Tech Site", .. read the review and was sold. I sewed it up by calling and speaking to Tim, and I just purchased a Venom 45!

My brother flys a DA-50, and I could as well, but I don't have to have the "name", ... and I like spending less. I've got a new Hangar 9 Cap this may eventually make its way onto, but for now I plan to install in an old favorite of mine, a scratch built 30% Laser from my own plans that has a Moki 180 with radial backplate and Pitts muff and weighs 13 lbs. It flys very light with its 1230 sq. in. area, and I'm hoping to keep the great flight characteristics with a powerful light weight gasser.

I'll be converting to the fully electronic advance ignition as soon as its available too. I've never really liked mechanical advance, but thats strictly from an appearance perspective. It just looks kinda ... "old school". Hopefully the cowl will be on like it has with the Moki, but when its off ... I want it to look good. By the way, ... anyone know where I can get some red anodized standoffs?

mfuess 01-10-2007 07:15 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Morning guys,

For those of you just getting your first V 45 soon, please take the time to run the engine a little rich to give the parts a chance to seat in. This is good pratice for any new engine. Of all the props I tested and flew on, my personal preference is the Pro Zinger 22x8. The V 45 has more than enough horsepower to turn this prop at a solid 7000+ RPM. A DA-50 spins this same prop at 7200. About the "new" ignition. I hope Tim can make it available soon to, but the current mechanical advance ignition really does work OK. You just need to be careful while hand starting and not open the throttle too much. A few clicks above idle works well.

The new ignition can be retro-fitted so I wouldn't hold off on purchasing an engine if you don't already have one. I'm still using a CH Ignition for the moment while waiting for the new ones to become available. I can switch it out it 5 to 10 minutes. So I would't hold off just because of the ignition.

Regarding the red stand-offs. For some reason I'm thinking the MVVS 52 uses red anodized, and the Evolution 52 (same engine) uses blue ones. Now, this is purely off the top of my head... because I've never paid too much attention to stand-offs. BUT to make your life a little easier, PAINT THEM! Rustolium is fuel resistant and TopFlight paint is fuel proof. Krylon won't hold up to gasoline. Any and all urethane paints work great, as does epoxy. So for about 4 dollars you can make your stand-offs pretty.

dhooks 01-10-2007 10:31 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
ProZinger?[:'(]:D

Mitsu1 01-10-2007 03:53 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
The Pro Zinger is not exactly my first thought for extracting the most performance from the engine either, .. but I respect Mark's knowledge in this game so its worth checking out considering its cost.;)

mfuess 01-10-2007 07:43 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence!

I wouldn't recommend the ProZinger if I didn't try it out first-hand against several other props. Typically, I like to use APC. APC is what I use on my other engines & airplanes. For some reason, the ProZinger just brings out the best of the Venom 45 on this particular aircraft. Now that's not to say that it would be best on all airplanes... because you really won't know until you try it and compare it to other props. I fly extreme IMAC, and the engine & prop must be capable of over-comming some very potent G forces. The ProZinger 22x8 on the V 45 works best for my flying style.

Flyer Freq 01-10-2007 09:07 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Have you ever tried a Vess, MSC or XOAR props?

dhooks 01-10-2007 10:20 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyer Freq

Have you ever tried a Vess, MSC or XOAR props?
:D

novabill 01-11-2007 12:45 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Hooks and I ran the XOAR props and they were allright, but as mentioned above, for some reason the engine likes the Zinger and the most thrust comes from the PRO 22X8.

The ignitions should be on the way to the US with the next batch of engines in about a week. I just need to run each engine and set the needles, then package them.

I'm glad everyone is enjoying their Venoms;)

mfuess 01-11-2007 06:37 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
For those that will be getting the new ignition. These are low amp-draw modules, meaning you don't need big cells. I currently use an 800Mah AAA 4.8 VDC pack. I flew 7, 15 minute flights yesterday and still came home with lots if ignition power. So, you can lower your flying weight slightly by using AAA batteries on the ignition pack. I did try it with a 6.0 volt and didn't see a difference worthy of having the extra cell, so I went back to 4.8.

I tested my RCEXL ignition on my oscilloscope and it had a low current draw of 37 Mah, and a high at 359Mah. The average amp draw at 7000 RPM was 312 Mah with a spark output reaching 14.2KV. This is excellent spark at minimal current draw! I didn't check the spark advance swing but I'm sure it's at least 18 degrees. Whatever it is, it works great.

Tim (and his team) are to be complemented for their "get er' done" attitude to make us the best engine, and still be affordable!


Mark
http://tech.flygsw.org/VENOM45M.jpg

Here is a photo of my Venom 45 BEAST, this is a Carl Goldberg Monster (Model 12) Pitts. At a mere 10 pounds, 11 ounces it flies extremely aggressive with the V 45 engine. The prop is 1/3rd the width of the wing! This aircraft & engine combination IS NOT for the faint of heart, or intermediate pilots! PLEASE do not attempt this without having lots of "hot stick-time" experience.

azhar 01-11-2007 11:13 AM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
Mark,

That is going to be ballistic. Mine will be going in on an Apache Aviation Pepsi Chipmunk (~13.5 lb RTF). And I thought that would be ballistic. Nice, very nice.

Azhar

Mitsu1 01-11-2007 12:28 PM

RE: Copperhead Aviation Venom 45-30
 
So let me understand .... How is the Hall sensor attached? Didn't you have to pull that spark advance ring that was on the engine and replace it with something to mount the fixed sensor? In the pic of the ignition you posted that part of the ignition wasn't shown. Oh, this discussion isn't getting ahead of Copper Aviation's public release intentions is it? :)


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