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Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

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Old 12-28-2011, 07:49 PM
  #1
Speedy-Gonzales
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Default Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

I have been flying "Club Spec 40" for several years now and I find it absolutely insane that promoters of 424 Pylon are expecting to grow the sport of pylon racing with a $400 baseline average 424 airframe. The GP Viper is a POS and the Lanier Predator II has been discontinued.

Why doesnt someone get their head OOTA and offer the average guy a somewhat decent ARF 424 for $200 or less. You don't need all the composite stuff. Just a good reinforced wing and fuselage can handle any stock TT-Pro 40.

The Lanier Predator II ARF was the best thing that ever happened to promote Q500 for under $125. It wasn't the best but it was good enough. Scat Cat...Dodger, V-Vector,...all gone. You don't have to have the best to win and you don't have to have the best to have some good old fun. Now that GP has Lanier why don't they re-release the Predator and throw out the Viper? What a poor excuse for a race plane. I use to race guys with Vipers and would always beat them even with a slow Pred II because I knew they would break the fuse in half sometine during the day.

Take the average guy looking to fly RC and give him $500. What do you think he will buy? That's right.....a 30-50cc 3D gasser with some "WOW" factor. If I could get a guy in the air with a 424 for under $275 ( minus radio ) you would see a giant surge in interest.

Some of the "Big $$$ Boys" might just get their *****es whooped by some fresh meat!

YES....that's Brian and Eric Gilkey ( R/C Combat National Champs ) in the picture and they are damned hot "round the poles"!

SPEEDY
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Quote:
offer the average guy a somewhat decent ARF 424 for $200 or less. You don't need all the composite stuff
Composite wings and tails are not legal in 424. A quickie is a simple box with a foam core in 424. You can build one for about $50.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:12 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales

I have been flying ''Club Spec 40'' for several years now and I find it absolutely insane that promoters of 424 Pylon are expecting to grow the sport of pylon racing with a $400 baseline average 424 airframe. The GP Viper is a POS and the Lanier Predator II has been discontinued.

Why doesnt someone get their head OOTA and offer the average guy a somewhat decent ARF 424 for $200 or less. You don't need all the composite stuff. Just a good reinforced wing and fuselage can handle any stock TT-Pro 40........!

SPEEDY

Hey Speedy - not so fast. Sounds like you've missed a few iterations of AMA 424 pylon racing. Not quite as expensive as you make it out to be and the GP Viper is an EXCELLENT Value! Both the ARF and the ARC are great deals and cost around $150. A few mods, a TT .40 Pro, basic rc equipment and you are ready to go. I fly GP Vipers with TT.40 pros on them in the AMA 424 class and love it. I also fly GP Vipers (a bit more beefed up) in the AMA 428 class with a Nelson Q500 motor on them. I can hang for the most part with the guys flying the fully composite AMA428 legal airplanes.

There are other options to the GP Viper but most are in kit form. The ones I have taken the time to build weren't any better than a GP Viper (with a few small improvements.)

[b]A 3-sec google search found the following links that might help you out. Here they are:[/b]

Seeker and Hurricane - www.supertrc.com

Dawg Gone it, Mad Dog, Pit Bull - www.matneymodels.com/q500.html

Scat Cat - www.lonestar-models.com (had a fire, down right now)

Xciter - www.aerocrafts.net

Sam-Rai - www.sam-rairacing.com/default.asp

Viper - www.towerhobbies.com

Venom and Smasher from www.HouseOfPylon.com

Conspirator aadamisin@aol.com phone number is 734-287-9320


Kurt
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:51 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

There are several other options. The Intimidator II from National balsa is a fantastic kit for $100.......easy to build once you learn how to sheet wings and extremely competitive. Also, the Snaker is a great fuse kit designed around the Viper wing or the Seeker which comes with a sheeted wing. The Hurrikane is another that comes with a sheeted wing. I have built/flown all of these and assure you they are 100% competitive in 424 and all can be built for under $200 with minimal skills. All are laser cut kits and require no special skills to build if you have any prior experience. Part of the fun in racing for me is the building, always trying to improve with every plane I build

http://www.nationalbalsa.com/Kits_s/238.htm

http://q500racing.com/seeker/

http://q500racing.com/snaker/

http://www.supertrc.com/details.asp?...54&category=10.

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Old 12-29-2011, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Thanks Guys! These are the replies I was looking for. I know I came out of the gate a bit too hard but wanted to get some action as far as ideas and comments.

I had ( and raced for 3 years ) 3 Predator II's RTF but decided to sell them here on RCU due to the diminishing lack of interest and getting enough guys together to have a race. I can not shake the racing bug and am going to start all over again and as CD of our clubs racing events I am going with AMA 424 rules and not Club Spec 40.

The Viper is OK with the mods but I feel GP should be getting enough feedback to make those mods before it goes in the box for shipment. So what if it costs a few more bucks for the upgrades. I do however know how to sheet wings and vacuum bag them but to the novice it is a big pain in the butt.

SPEEDY
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Speedy

another option is a SCORPION 424 designed plane all wood and foam for $85 short kit you add wing planking and 1/16" sheet for fuse build it in like 12 hours and you got a ready to finish plane.

Scott smith design flys it here in Florida in 424 and has trophies to prove it is quick and on the real cheap side of 424.

E mail him at ssmith4710@AOL.COM and come have fun racing with little money invested. You will see you will get hours of enjoyment racing without alot of money invested.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Speedy


I have the Seeker fuse kit and a vacuum bagged sheeted wing for $155, few hours to finish wing. The fuse kit is balsa and plywood laser cut with Tab and Lock construction. Few dollars for glue and covering and your plane is ready to go for under $200. This is one of the fastest and best flying kit for sale.


Also have the Snaker fuse kit for the Viper wing. Much better fuse than the Viper.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Randy,
I like your "Seeker". You are #1 on my potential list. You got stock? If I get everyone else on board locally I may want 6. I checked out your website. What is shipping to Ohio 43506 per kit?

SPEEDY
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

I have the fuse kits, should have wing sheeting in next two weeks.
If you order 6 I will ship for free.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

We use Scat Cats, Predators and vipers and they are all fairly competitive. I personally have flown the same Viper for more than three years with 15 flights a year. It is the fastest Q500 in our series.
The Vipers have firewall issue and that is it (not counting tail incidence) We dont ground start so the weak fuse rear area isnt a factor for us.

The predators look nicer with controls inside, but I havent seen a fast one yet. Not saying they arent, just that I havent seen one yet.

It would be nice to have some other ARC / ARF options for sure. Especially when the Viper is out of stock.

Your original post hit the nail as far as costs. If racing gets too expensive it validates a lot of peoples reason for not trying it.."Its too expensive". I hear that a lot. And you are right, it doesnt have to be, not 424 any way.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Im just getting ready to build my first pylon racer. I dont mind building but the pylon wings scare me. Never done any foam wings before. Where do you get the sheeted wings and how much do they cost? I already have a v-vector kit on the way but was wondering on future projects.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

There are a few kits that are based upon the Viper wing.

These include the ViperDog, Snaker, and others.

The Viper wing is available from Tower Hobbies or your local hobby shop. A covered wing is $80.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEVR7&P=7

Here are a few pictures of my ViperDog:
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

I like those Scott. Where do you get that dog? Have you tried the seeker, and if so which one do you like best?



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Old 12-30-2011, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Looks good! What about giving up some details and a link for "Viper Dog" I know the wing is available from Tower.

SEEKER is still #1 on my list.

Been talking to my local group and they are getting interested with the comments posted here.

Keep it coming. This is what I need to get the ball rolling.

How does the ST GS-40 hold up to the TT Pro 40? We had a guy try the TT Pro 40 and it puked a rear bearing before the race ever started.

What kind of "stock mods" are the guys doing to the TT Pro 40 to make it reliable and durable? I know a bearing change is #1 on the list.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Randy Etken

Speedy


I have the Seeker fuse kit and a vacuum bagged sheeted wing for $155, few hours to finish wing. The fuse kit is balsa and plywood laser cut with Tab and Lock construction. Few dollars for glue and covering and your plane is ready to go for under $200. This is one of the fastest and best flying kit for sale.


Also have the Snaker fuse kit for the Viper wing. Much better fuse than the Viper.

Aluminum LG included with SEEKER kit? What all do you get?
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Here is a link for Matney's Models:

http://www.matneymodels.com/q500.html

I just ordered a "Mad Dog Kit" and in the notes asked Kevin to send the ViperDog instead. A kit with wing cores is $100. He sells the fuselage for less, believe it is $70.

I like Kevin's kits as the fuselage is fiberglass and is much more durable than a wood fuselage. This is important when you are learning to race. There is a build thread in the Q500 section on this model.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10554006/tm.htm

His kits are as fast as any in the 424 class.

The standard fixes on the Thunder Tiger Pro 40 includes the following:

1) JB Welding the muffler together
2) Replace the spring in the carburetor with a small piece of tubing
3) You can change out the head gasket with a thinner version
4) Back out the idle screw until the engine kills at low throttle
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:51 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales
How does the ST GS-40 hold up to the TT Pro 40? We had a guy try the TT Pro 40 and it puked a rear bearing before the race ever started.

Speedy: Don't forget, the ST GS-40 is not a legal engine in 424 at any contest other than a local circuit. The only "official" engine for 424 is the TT-40 Pro. The NCPRO guys in MN, WI, etc, have their 424 circuit with an OS 46FX, but that's STRICTLY a local thing.

If your TT 40Pro has a brown-ish plastic bearing retainer, then it will be OK, if it's the metal "bent tab" or riveted cage retainer, change the bearing out. Ask me how I know... :-(
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Great info on the bearings. Thanks! Since we have been running "Club Spec 40" our engine has mostly been the vintage ST S-45 ABC so I need to get the insider's scoop on the TT Pro 40. Can you point me to the actual declaration in the AMA 424 guidelines that the TT Pro 40 is the only acceptable "spec" engine for 424?

O.S. 46 FX is a turd!!! Just my personal opinion.

I have however learned that there is no comparrison to CF pushrods. After starting out with the stock wood dowels supplied withthe Predator ARF and then switching them out with CF tube I couldnot believe the difference and cut my lap times down dramatically. The CF pushrods took all the "mush" out in the turns.

I will NEVER use wood pushrods. Scary stuff there. I should have known better from the start.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Hi Speedy

The landing gear does not come with the kit.

The new sheeted vacuum bagged wing, come 52 inches with Hoerner wing tips and skinless hinges installed.

sent you a PM
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Randy,

Are your skinned hinges for the Seeker on top of the balsa wood or between the foam and wood?

Scott Hartman
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

I use a peice of fiberglass on top of the balsa.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

NICE! I like it! What about the torque tubes and rods?
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Thats your job.http://www.nmpra.org/articles/DNskinhinges.htm
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

Gotcha!!! I can handle that!

Your R200 looks like a blast too!

Speedy
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Pylon 424 $$$$$ REDICULOUS!

No one has pegged the facts concerning the TT PRO 40 as being the "official" AMA 424 spec engine. I have went through the AMA 424 rules and am either blind or simply can't find where any other 40 engine is not allowed as per the following.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2...ing2JAEdit.pdf

AMA Contest rules starting on page 18 for 428 and page 19 for 424 have no mention of TT PRO 40 or any other specific engine. Are you telling me that if I show up at a AMA sponsored 424 pylon race I will not be permitted to fly with anything but a TT PRO 40? I will have to pack up and go home?

Rule 16.2. starts with general airframe guidelines for 428 and 424

Rule 16.3. begins 424 guidelines

Rule 16.3.2 begins powerplant guidelines

No mention of any specific engine. What am I missing here? I am just asking for someone to show me where a AMA 424 event mandates the TT PRO 40. I have no problem with running it but I just want to see the mandate. Is it a NMPRA mandate or an AMA mandate? If so who has the upper hand...NMPRA or AMA?

I'm just asking questions here!

SPEEDY
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