FAI pylon
08-05-2002, 02:33 AM
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FAI pylon
I am not sure this is the right forum to for this post. It has been pointed out that the while the US has an excellent record in FAI world championships, the US schedules no FAI races. In the late 60's and early 70's, many F1 contests included FII (a FAI type class) in an effort to promote and develop FAI class racing. Since (most of) you never heard about FII, it is obvious it did not go over. Well there is still a need to provide caliber US representation internationally.
I do not know how well this idea would work (or even if this is a new idea), but it occurred to me that since 422 (Q40) and the FAI 40 planes are similar, and the times are similar, why not race them together? I realize this might be a nightmare to officiate. Just a thought.
FWIW :idea:
I do not know how well this idea would work (or even if this is a new idea), but it occurred to me that since 422 (Q40) and the FAI 40 planes are similar, and the times are similar, why not race them together? I realize this might be a nightmare to officiate. Just a thought.
FWIW :idea:
08-05-2002, 03:03 PM
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HMMMMM???
Why not change the QM/Q500 course to meet the FAI rules (little shorter but wider 2 & 3) and then you wouldn't have to tear down the course to run a different event. Plus it would be great practice for the international competitions.
One of the biggest arguments against the long course was space availability, we might be faced with the same concerns if we were to widen 2 & 3 by 40 ft. But #1 would be closer.
I am looking for feedback, if the course were to change to the FAI course who would object??????
Dan
Why not change the QM/Q500 course to meet the FAI rules (little shorter but wider 2 & 3) and then you wouldn't have to tear down the course to run a different event. Plus it would be great practice for the international competitions.
One of the biggest arguments against the long course was space availability, we might be faced with the same concerns if we were to widen 2 & 3 by 40 ft. But #1 would be closer.
I am looking for feedback, if the course were to change to the FAI course who would object??????
Dan
08-05-2002, 03:07 PM
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FAI pylon
Regis:
As the 2001 FAI team manager I was also concerned about the lack of local races so I have offered several times to run FAI as a standard event at all Basin and Whittier 422, 428 and APRA races of which we hold about 8 each year. Not one FAI pilot has called and requested we do so. The offer is still open. We would use FAI timing and scoring but use the standard long course. FYI we have is excess of 10 FAI pilots in the west. Its like everything else having to do with pylon. The vast majority of pilots just wait around until someone twists their respective arms to come to a race. In Southern Calif., population 17 mil more or less, there are 3 or 4 guys who are willing to actually do the work and put on a rule book race. There are a lot of things wrong with pylon in the US but by far the most serious is the apathetic and yes pathetic attitude of most racers when it comes to jumping in and really helping put on a race.
Barry
As the 2001 FAI team manager I was also concerned about the lack of local races so I have offered several times to run FAI as a standard event at all Basin and Whittier 422, 428 and APRA races of which we hold about 8 each year. Not one FAI pilot has called and requested we do so. The offer is still open. We would use FAI timing and scoring but use the standard long course. FYI we have is excess of 10 FAI pilots in the west. Its like everything else having to do with pylon. The vast majority of pilots just wait around until someone twists their respective arms to come to a race. In Southern Calif., population 17 mil more or less, there are 3 or 4 guys who are willing to actually do the work and put on a rule book race. There are a lot of things wrong with pylon in the US but by far the most serious is the apathetic and yes pathetic attitude of most racers when it comes to jumping in and really helping put on a race.
Barry
08-06-2002, 09:24 PM
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FAI pylon
I wish that F3D had been flown after hours in Muncie. One round could have been flown every day after the regular racing and people would still have had practice and trim time.
Since it was run on Saturday, I had to go ahead and leave because I had already been there over a week.
But watching the F3D machines in action was cool. They are enough faster (and louder) that they get your attention.
Dan,
I've never flown on the FAI course. Does it mess with you on the 2-3 radius, or do you get used to it pretty quickly?
Since it was run on Saturday, I had to go ahead and leave because I had already been there over a week.
But watching the F3D machines in action was cool. They are enough faster (and louder) that they get your attention.
Dan,
I've never flown on the FAI course. Does it mess with you on the 2-3 radius, or do you get used to it pretty quickly?
08-07-2002, 01:04 PM
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I think it does but only the first couple of times you fly it.
I was asking to see if there was interest to change the rules to spark interest in FAI in the states.
Dan
I was asking to see if there was interest to change the rules to spark interest in FAI in the states.
Dan
08-07-2002, 10:07 PM
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Dan,
I visited a field today near Charlotte that can host a long course (for practice at least), but the additional 31.23 feet in width of the FAI course would be difficult to accommodate.
I would say that the major difficulties would be sites that have permanent pylon installations, and current records.
People who have held and hold records might not want to go to a new course. Randy, Travis, what do you think about that aspect of it?
The permanent pylon installations could be a problem at some fields, but so far, I haven't see any where adding new locations could not be done for a pretty low cost.
This issue could certainly be put before the NMPRA membership to take a poll at the minimum.
I visited a field today near Charlotte that can host a long course (for practice at least), but the additional 31.23 feet in width of the FAI course would be difficult to accommodate.
I would say that the major difficulties would be sites that have permanent pylon installations, and current records.
People who have held and hold records might not want to go to a new course. Randy, Travis, what do you think about that aspect of it?
The permanent pylon installations could be a problem at some fields, but so far, I haven't see any where adding new locations could not be done for a pretty low cost.
This issue could certainly be put before the NMPRA membership to take a poll at the minimum.
08-08-2002, 11:42 AM
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F3D Pylon Racing
I have been reading with interest the various posts on F3D Pylon Racing. It is very gratifying to see that there are some willing to promote the event. It is always easy to be negative about anything. However there comes a time when we should take a look around and understand the reality of the state of our hobby. Somebody has to say this it might as well be me.
F3D Pylon Racing is not for North American consumption. F3D requires work, total work. Apart from a dedicated few the average modeller is not up to it. Just note how the whole hobby is going, not just Pylon Racing. There are more R.T.F.s and A.R.F.s available now than ever before. Who actualy builds aircraft anymore? The attitude now is "Here is my money, I want it NOW". In our domestic racing events we use stock engines. We buy the engine, airplane and radio throw it all together in a couple of evenings and race. We bust it, buy it all again and we are set for the next race. As somebody noted in a previous post, there were very few "Non composite" racers at the NATS. We have lost the art of applying ourselves to a demanding project. Why should we even bother when we can just buy it.
F3D is not an airplane event. It is an engine event. The engine rules are wide open. Providing the engine is a reciprocating piston, internal combustion engine of 6.5cc you can do what you like to it. One can even build ones own. There are ARF F3D airframes around, good ones too. I have watched some of them being used in practice. Well they all fly. just flying the aircraft in practice will not achieve much. As I said before they all fly. The real work is in getting the correct Engine/Pipe/Prop combination to work together. This requires hours and hours of prop making, maybe even pipe making or changing and engine running. Then when you think all is ready to race the issue now becomes will this all start in one minute? The one minute start procedure in F3D racing is the most important problem to solve of the whole event. If that engine will not start in one minute, EVERY TIME, then all that has gone on before is a total waste of time and money.
The clamour to run F3D at the 2002 Nats started at the end of the 2001 Nats. During the year a number of people were quite adamant that they would enter the event. I believe there were fifteen entries at the 2002 Nats. This was a pretty good turnout.
I was the starter for this event so I have first hand information.
For a racing event it was a disaster. I seem to remember only about two heats out of twenty five where all competitors got off the ground. That evil one minute procedure got them every time. By the fourth round people were already dropping out saying they had had enough of this #$%!! event. So here we had competitors actualy at a race who were not prepared to apply themselves for a couple of hours to solve problems. Not exactly candidates for the long haul.
I found it very interesting that at the end of this years NATS not one person asked Mike Condon to run F3D next year. I will be very surprised to see F3D at future A.M.A. NATS.
Ed S
F3D Pylon Racing is not for North American consumption. F3D requires work, total work. Apart from a dedicated few the average modeller is not up to it. Just note how the whole hobby is going, not just Pylon Racing. There are more R.T.F.s and A.R.F.s available now than ever before. Who actualy builds aircraft anymore? The attitude now is "Here is my money, I want it NOW". In our domestic racing events we use stock engines. We buy the engine, airplane and radio throw it all together in a couple of evenings and race. We bust it, buy it all again and we are set for the next race. As somebody noted in a previous post, there were very few "Non composite" racers at the NATS. We have lost the art of applying ourselves to a demanding project. Why should we even bother when we can just buy it.
F3D is not an airplane event. It is an engine event. The engine rules are wide open. Providing the engine is a reciprocating piston, internal combustion engine of 6.5cc you can do what you like to it. One can even build ones own. There are ARF F3D airframes around, good ones too. I have watched some of them being used in practice. Well they all fly. just flying the aircraft in practice will not achieve much. As I said before they all fly. The real work is in getting the correct Engine/Pipe/Prop combination to work together. This requires hours and hours of prop making, maybe even pipe making or changing and engine running. Then when you think all is ready to race the issue now becomes will this all start in one minute? The one minute start procedure in F3D racing is the most important problem to solve of the whole event. If that engine will not start in one minute, EVERY TIME, then all that has gone on before is a total waste of time and money.
The clamour to run F3D at the 2002 Nats started at the end of the 2001 Nats. During the year a number of people were quite adamant that they would enter the event. I believe there were fifteen entries at the 2002 Nats. This was a pretty good turnout.
I was the starter for this event so I have first hand information.
For a racing event it was a disaster. I seem to remember only about two heats out of twenty five where all competitors got off the ground. That evil one minute procedure got them every time. By the fourth round people were already dropping out saying they had had enough of this #$%!! event. So here we had competitors actualy at a race who were not prepared to apply themselves for a couple of hours to solve problems. Not exactly candidates for the long haul.
I found it very interesting that at the end of this years NATS not one person asked Mike Condon to run F3D next year. I will be very surprised to see F3D at future A.M.A. NATS.
Ed S
08-08-2002, 05:28 PM
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I really like the course layout for FAI. And I would have no problem adapting that layout for all of our racing. I like the extra space around 2 and 3. We could fly Q500 and Q40 as well as FAI all at the same event without having to change the course. Sounds good on paper.
Randy Bridge
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08-08-2002, 06:18 PM
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Forget about it, FAI is a nightmare and we don't want to mess with anything other than our own events.
Why put effort into something that's not worth it?
Oh, wait my sarcasim is catching up to me. My thought was that changing the course might help those select individuals who can afford to run FAI, practice. I guess that is not needed. Once a year is good enough for me.
SAY LA VEE
Why put effort into something that's not worth it?
Oh, wait my sarcasim is catching up to me. My thought was that changing the course might help those select individuals who can afford to run FAI, practice. I guess that is not needed. Once a year is good enough for me.
SAY LA VEE
08-08-2002, 07:32 PM
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MY BAD ! I thought I read somewhere that someone was wondering about changing our current course set up to an FAI dimension? I don't care either way, but in the same note I was just trying to say that it wouldn't bother me...
I'll leave it alone..
R. Bridge
I'll leave it alone..
R. Bridge
