ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Gotta couple questions for you fella's.

First, why does AMA 1/2a pylon have a 20oz minimum weight? I can build a reliable TeeDee .049 racer that comes in under half of that! A reedie racer can come in about 8oz on a BAD day! Is there a legitimate reason for that or is it just a neglected segment?

Does anyone still race 1/2a? AMA or club.

Is there any interest in getting the rules changed?

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

1/2 A is usually a local club evert. Some clubs run airplanes like the old Ace simple series, others might use old 1/2 A pylon designs like the Ace GLH. Most of the really serious racers won't bother with the event. The rules from the AMA are old, old, old, and ignored for years. There were a few designs back 20 years ago in some of the magazines. If your group wants to modifiy the event, go ahead. You just missed the current rules cycle, so you will have 2+ years to develop new rule proposals for the AMA.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I believe they do a little 1/2a racing in Iowa.

I doubt there is enough interest to get the AMA rules updated with the small amount of interest in this class.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

You guys don't think that the rules are part of the lack of interest? Let me put it this way. You can build an 10oz racer and fly a small airplane at close to 100mph or 20oz and do about 40mph. In your opinions, is this a lost cause? Or do you think people might get into it if the rules were more competitive? I'd like to do something about this. Maybe even start a reed valve class. If this is too ambitious, somebody give me a verbal slap on the head!

PAINLESS

My Feedback: (19)

If you are going to try and change the rules for 1/2a pylon there are a few others that need updating along with the minimum weight.

Minimum wing thickness now is 7/8" (I think), something around 1/2" would be better.
Also 200 sq-in is way to much area for a 10-12 oz plane, it floats like a glider when landing, 120-140 sq-in is more reasonable.

I had scratch built a plane with a Norvel .061 and a cox 5x3 prop that fit these "new" rules and it was radared at 88 MPH.
I tried a couple years ago to get some 1/2a racing going in my area and also inquired here about getting the AMA rules changed, but could not generate enough interest and didn't persue the rules changes. You would think 1/2a would be more popular than it is with more engine choices now and the events would require less space and maybe less man power to run.

Ed Smith

Consider it done!!

Ed S

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Painless, you're kinda far away, but there was a 1/2a reedie race in North Carolina just the other day. I came in third! You're right about the thickness, but I was thinking 1/4" to make the SWR's legal. (sheet wing racer) My "Killer Buzz" has 110 square inches and that is PLENTY of area. With a bone-stock Cox Killer Bee engine it will approach the speed of your .061 powered plane. With a TD it's possible to pass 100mph. Yep, the rules are horrible and with some changes we could begin exploring the "bottom line"!

Ed, right now the Cox Surestart is on sale for seven bucks. A weeks time, ten bucks worth of balsa and covering and you can be racing. No need to plumb the depths of your wallet to race. You don't think that more people would race if it was cheaper and easier? You sure there's not a little "elitism" going on? Nobody here wants to step backward. I'm not blaming/berating/chastising or ANYTHING like that. I think maybe I'm talking to the wrong guys though. Where would I find guys that don't race because of the time, effort, and cost involved?

Is there anybody that would like to help? My idea is to either propose a rules change or maybe start something new.

PAINLESS

My Feedback: (19)

If I recall there is a form you can download from the AMA's webpage for rules change proposals, but like someone mentioned the next rules cycle is 2 years away. I think it would need to become very popular at the local level around the country before it was offered at the NATS. But 2 years would be long enough to get something in place that works.

I was following that NC race thread on the 1/2a forum here on RCU, would have liked to of been there. With the price of gas these days I won't be travelling very far to do anything. I've got a TD and some balsa laying around and may whip up a sheet wing racer as soon as I finish another plane. Could I see a picture of yours?

I belong to a fairly small club and getting enough folks interested in an event is difficult. Many years ago we raced Q500's and then tried some combat for a while. The problem I find is most of the guys will try something but if they crash or somehow destroy their plane they don't want to build another and drop out. Me, I just like to race and would race anything.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Painless, you can see the pictures I have at www.ulmer-rc.com

I actually used the DNU! as the racer 'cuz I was more familiar with it.

willflyforfood

I think the 1/2 racing is an excellent idea that could really go a long way, a buddy of mine and I already have some planes, and even more ideas in the works. It think its something that just needs to be reincarnated, and really looked in to. Imagine all the fun you could have for so little $$$, that just no frills cheap flyin fun! Also, ptulmer Iv'e got some designs I think you should see, just some fun stuff and ideas to piddle with.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Willfly, fun stuff is what I'm about! What I enjoyed about the 1/2a Reedie Race that I attended recently was the low amount of effort needed to put the race on.

willflyforfood

well thats exactly what we were thinking, it will be a good start to club pylon racing, almost everybody has and old reedie lyin around, and imagine the developent we could have with the growth. Its flat out addictive. I think it would also be a good attractant for newcomers, due to the ability to be able to fly in such a small area, you could set up at a much larger array of places with a relativly wide safty margin.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

The only reason PT is so geeked is cause he took home some hardware. Guys we all had a 100% great time! There was a full shareing of parts and tools to get anyone who could into the fray. I love being a part of this kind of racing! I promise May will be even more fun. Screw nats rules and have some fun I say! PT if the Sharkfaces don't get ya I will! With one of your own no less[>:]. I may even ask for a GRUDGE match between me, you, and Raymond (thats right the other guy who took home hardware with a 40 year old design! and an old Fart at that![X(]).

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Bro, if you watched Hfenn and Raymond close enough, you'd know better than to wanna go head to head with him. (I hope he's not reading this thread. I'd hate to give him a big head) I took third ONLY through attrition. If it'd been a blimp race, I'd have had the fastest blimp... I still can't get the product engine to turn up like the Blackwidows and Golden Bees.

Anyway, as we saw, it was so much fun that even the guys that crashed were smiling. Wouldn't have been doing that with a couple hundred bucks worth of airplane in the dirt! Not only that, the number of people required to run the event was ONE! You! For the poor unfortunate souls that weren't there, Vic stood down at the far pylon and was supposed to holler "CUT" if someone cut and your spotter would tell you if it was you that cut. Yes, it worked very well with the lower speeds we were running at and will probably work just as well for the unlimited event that's being added next year.

Oh yeah, there also was someone to countdown and start the race. So the total was two!!!

Willfly, I'm sending you a PM.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

LOL! In reality I was down there yelling for you guys to turn already! I didn't call one cut just trying to get some of your slower guys to come about. Even tho my racer broke I had a great time and am ready for the next one. I think I said that back in May too[8|? PT also helped the scorekeeper with a few plans and kits.[X(] Keep up the good work Mr. Blimpflier.

mikegordon10

Here in Zion (Utah) we have a 1/2 Pylon program that has attracted flyers from both Malad Idaho and Elko Nevada. It's been running for at least 10 years now. We average at least a dozen racers once a month from March thru November. What's the key to our continued sucess? Not a lot of rules to break - 200 sq in, .051 non-piped, non ball bearing engines, 13 oz min. Any fuel any prop. The racers are way fast on our 300', 3 pylon course. prolly around a minute and a half for 10 laps. Drive on over and race with us.

willflyforfood

ptulmer did you get my PM?

willflyforfood

Also have you tried shaving the head on your product engine? I did that to a couple of ours and made them scream. Also, you know the black widow's ports are completely open, unlike the product engine, that has two slots. Thats what Im gonna try next, is to open up the ports like on the stronger engines. Think this could help a lot. Anybody else been messin with any of this stuff?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Sorry bout that! Yeah I got it. I'll respond after work tonight. (promise!) I think if we put our heads together and probably take the discussion to the 1/2a forum here, something (informal) can be started.

Opening the ports may or may not help. I've got BW's with the dual slit exhaust. There have been experiments with hopping the Cox's up. That never seemed to help much. Do some searches in the 1/2a forum for a couple of good threads. One day, (when there's enough time in a day!) I'm going to put the degree wheel on every Cox I've got and see if there's a difference.

Mike, you ever run the VA .049? That's the fastest turning non-bearing .049 I've seen. For eighty bucks it even comes with a VERY nice carb! www.kittingittogether.com
What does the three pylon course look like? Do you have alot of people on the course spotting or is it easy enough to do without too many people working? BTW, that'd be one loooong drive for me.

mikegordon10

There are maybe half the guys running VA's and half running Norvels. The VA's are faster AND a bigger pain in the rear. Also the supply of VA Engines AND parts has dried up. The Norvels are turning around 28,000 to 29,000 BUT are much more reliable. You don't have to win every heat to win the race. We run 6 - 4 plane heats on a Saturday. We have judges at each of the three pylons, a starter and those who need a launcher (me for one) and/or a caller had best bring help. That would be Silas by 12 year old son. The pylon judges wear hard hats and everybody else (maybe 15 to 20 bodies) stays inside the pylon course. We've had a couple of close calls but in 10 or so years no incidents involving injures. If anyone tried to file an AMA claim they would die laughing if they knew what we were doing. We quit Q-500 on our home field cause it was just an accident waiting to happen. There's a lot of difference between a 13 OZ projectile going 80 or 90 mph and a 3.5 lb Qucikie doing 140 mph. Come on out and race, it's only mileage and just think most of it is thru Nevada. Look out crap tables!

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Mike, that's Brunswick, Georgia. Not CA!

That should make it easy to see a cut! Wonder if the AMA specifically prohibits that method?

mikegordon10

I posted this on the 1/2 A Forum but thought I'd put it here as well.
The attached pic is of my fleet of Racers for the 2006 Season.
These are my own designs, 200 sq. in. 13 oz ready to race, I use Norvel AME .049's. I've hung up another of these in our local Hobby Shop and was gonna see if I could get $100.00 out of one, covered and ready for the buyers equipment. Takes me about a week of evenings to cut one out cover the foam wing, frame up the fuse & empanage and cover one. This is not the road to fame and fortune. I figure about 3 bucks per Hr.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Those look Great Mike. Looks like fun, how would they go with a .061?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Dave, there's not a dramatic increase between the Norvels. The AME is the fastest and the .061 is the only size they still produce. You'll want a C/L combat engine to really haul the mail. Let's see, you've got Cyclon, Fora, and G&Z
A good pylon race will NOT allow these super-expensive engines. The goal for 1/2a pylon should be cheap, easy competition to attract folks with no prior competiton experiance.

mikegordon10

The .061 Big Mig is about equal to or slower than an AME .049. BUT a .061 AME is close to a VA and will stomp a .049 AME. I'm all in favor of the Foras, Cyclones etc. but I'm afraid ptulmer is right about the cost. Funny but our club went from 424 with Supre Tigres GS 40's to full blown 428 with Jetts and Nelsons and evolved into 1/2 A due to the lack of a safe place for the Q-500's (County Owned RC Field).
Kinda backwards if you ask me. BUT we must be doing something right cause we're into our 12 th year of 1/2 A.