hvac

My Feedback: (7)

We have several people at our club that want to start pylon racing. there is no organized pylon racing in our area(Indianapolis, racing capitol of the world, whats up with that?). Where do I begin? I want it to be affordable and fun. I have lots of experience in other forms of racing (karts, rc cars, etc.) and they all suffered from the new hot piece of the week syndrome. If you didnt buy the latest and greatest new equipment that seemed to come out every week you had no chance of running up front or winning. As a result your core racers quit and the series and events went away. I want a totally spec class and maybe a unlimited class for all the rich guys. Im thinking the spec class would be Viper or Predator only and the engine would be TT 40 only. Unlimited Class is self explanatory, no rules. I know nothing about semi organized airplane pylon racing and I am not interested in anything that has to do with the AMA. This will be local only and just for fun, althought I thought about charging a $5 entry fee and giving all the entry fee money back to the top 3 finishers. I think there are some guys at other local clubs that want to do this also. We could maybe race at a few other local clubs as a series. I want to use the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

hvac

My Feedback: (7)

just noticed another post asking the same thing i am. I like the idea of skyraiders and os la's. i had a skyraider and it was a great little plane. World Models Skyraider, OS LA 40, 9x6 prop, stock muffler, $20 servos only, engine claim rule and 10% fuel, no after market add-ons of anykind. Any other kind of plane goes in the unlimited class.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

If no racing in your area, your idea for a spec class is dead on. I would keep it close to the AMA 424 event just to limit arguments later, plus if you find other clubs in the area to start a circuit. The TT.40 seems to be the currently best engine for this anyway. You might consider raising the minimum weight to 3 3/4 lbs or even 4 lbs., so people aren't trying to buy more performance with micro radios and servos.

Also if you can, use your entry money to buy stuff to give out to the workers. Racing takes a number of people to run, and if they can win fuel, covering, glue, etc., it makes it a lot easier to a). get workers, and b). have the club loan you the field for a race. Racers will understand this if you explain it, after all they want to race.

Also, you might make the first race more of a warm up session with practice heats. Get the transmitters into as many hands as possible.

Finally, let us know how it turns out.

TIA

Yak, Just as a suggestion, I like a spec class idea where everyone runs the same thing too, so there's no technology advantage, Just talent or luck! To me it seems that will make the most fun events.

My idea is for all the racers to go ahead and run a stock Viper or Predator or whatever plane you all agree on. Make sure to stipulate that the planes must all be stock and absolutely no changes can be made unless agreed upon by everyone in your official rules- (If it ain't in here, it ain't allowed!) Color of the wing skins would be allowable to be able to identify them in the air. Use the TT 40 or whatever motor you all decide on, then have your club buy a few spare motors. Then what you do is everytime someone wins an even they forfeit their motor to the cd and the cd gives them one from the club inventory. After a couple dozen events you've got all these motors playing musical chairs with the pilots, the pilots know this and accept it and it keeps everything fair and simple. The only other way I can think of is for the club to keep & own all the planes and distribute them to pilots each event by drawing numbers out of a hat each event, but this is neither practical, cost inducive, and the other method give pilots a chance to design the looks of their plane to their own tastes.

It is a great idea to give the helpers or turn marshalls a little something for their efforts also. They blow a whole day sometimes and often you get helpers that just want to help & don't even fly. Gift certificates to movies or Home Depot or all other kinds of ideas would be neat.

FWIW hope some of these ideas help.

It's supposed to be all about fun, and to stay that way.



Ron.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Yakmonoff,

For your KISS unlimited class you must have rules. If not it is doomed to failure. It's a pylon race right? If you don't have any rules then what's to say that cutting a pylon isn't allowed? Not to mention the fact that you need rules for the safety and liability aspects.

What is your gripe with the AMA and the established classes? I'm not trying to antagonize you; I'm really interested in what you think is wrong with AMA rule book racing.

hvac

My Feedback: (7)

I was at our field all day today, finally had some great weather. found 4 more guys that want to race. i am going to stick to the Skyraider, OS LA 40 theme for the spec class. $70 for the plane, $55 for the motor, cant beat that. Unlimited class will have the same rules for the racing, just no rules on the airplanes themselves, run what you brung. everybody seems to agree so far and they all seem pretty excited about it. club official has no problem with racing at our new field, that we move to next month, much bigger than current field. I ordered a Skyraider from LHS and will put it together to take to our May club meeting. i dont really have anything against the AMA. i just dont want this to be full of silly rules. i downloaded their pylon rules for reference and will play it by ear as we progress. we just want to have fun. i am a competitive person, but i am going to try to keep this as simple and fun as possible. if it gets out of hand or doesnt work, oh well, i tried. thanks for the input, i will keep you posted, if your interested. thanks.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, please keep us posted as to the success of your efforts!

PJ_TankPilot

The biggest decision is 2 pole or the AMA 3 pole course. I can tell from experience that it is a LOT easier to get newbies to try 2 pole than 3 pole. It also takes fewer workers to run a two pole race.

However, if you want to race AMA classes some day or you want pilots to migrate to the AMA classes, you should use a 3 pole course.

speedster 1919

My Feedback: (3)

You must fly Danville... Forget the unlimited class for now. To get started and keep it fair and see If members have staying power. Pick a plane like sonic 500 , Mach II or say sport stik. The OS 40 LA is good but you will go thur alot of remote needles. Some clubs adopted the Super Tigre GS 40 at $49 and ball bearing and will take a crash better. Limit fuel to club supplied 10% lots of oil and one choice of prop and brand . No engine mods you can see. You now have a even racing field that will be competative. I think ST LOUIS area clubs run ST40 and Skyraiders so you can challenge them down the road. TT40 is too expensive .

Ken Erickson

Just some pieces of info.

The TT.40 Pro fits in the mounting holes of the OS .40 LA. And vice Versa. We are using Skyraiders and two classes of engines, LAs & TT .40 Pros

We found it takes a long time to do 660 foot course with the Skyraiders. Are using 400-foot. 10 laps takes about 2:00 to 2:30. That 's about 1/2 the speed of 1/2 A racers.

If and when you move up to Quickies, you are going to want the longer course.

Racing is racing. Slow is fun. Fast is exhilarating!!

We are using the AMA Sport Quickie Rules, but substituted for everything that goes in the air. This leaves only the procedures, not rules.

In order to keep the Landlord happy, we stay within the parameters of the AMA Safety Code. For /40's that is 495 feet from pylons to non-flying and non-officiating people. If you need to keep your landlord happy . . . . . There is a posibility of a Safety Code Waiver.

Good luck, Have Fun, Be safe.

Ken, AMA 19352

dbruening80

My Feedback: (1)

I experienced pylon racing for the first time this weekend. A club in my area (www.spiritsofstl.com) runs 4 star 40 races. All planes are built stock and everyone runs Super Tiger GS40's, 10 by 6 master airscrew props and 15% fuel. I have to tell you I had a blast and will definately be racing again in the near future. The Spirits also run warbird races on the same day, so now I'm looking for a nice .40 size warbird.

Mikey D

Hi
I live in Indianapolis, have been racing for a long time. I like the fact there are others in the area willing to give pylon a try. It might seem to make sense to try and come up with a local agenda for your club, many have, and many do. Most that I know of have not been able to sustain the momentum for various reasons. I would submit that the rules or lack of rules only pertained to the local club. Very hard to keep the blood and new blood flowing for a long period of time with a niche set of rules and planes. I would reconsider the AMA 424 rulebook event. The advantage here is that you can get a Quickee at your LHS, pretty cheap. You might be surprised at all the people in the area who already have a Quickee 424 planes built that would be willing to come to a local race me included.

Last year we hosted a race in Muncie and had a nice turnout of 424 flyers. I think they had a better time racing than the expert and qtrmidget pilots. Perhaps some of them can chime in for thier testomonial. We are again having a race in Muncie 9/9 - 9/10. I invite you and your buddies to come on out and fly. All you need is a Quickee (Predator, Viper easily available) and a TT.40 I promise you if you take us up on the offer you will have the time of your life.

www.capsracing.com for details.

In the meantime, anyone else in the Indiana surrounding counties interested in learning about Pylon racing, we have an active schedule at our website. I am here in Carmel not to far from Muncie, if anyone desires to practice (depending on AMA schedule) or at your site as well. Bottom line CAPS and NMPRA are chartered to help those who are interersted in Pylon Racing.

Mike DeNeve, Indianapolis

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I totally agree with simple if your just starting out and trying to get interest in the club.

Your first idea was spot on IMO. Predators or Vipers. TT Pro 40. 9x6 APC and 10% fuel. Standard servos. Go tear it up!!

Then, when you guys get bored-- (like thats gonna happen) --put .46 engines on them and run faster pitch props.

I wish I could get some guys interested in pylon at our club. Nothing but a bunch of old fuddy duddies who like scale warbirds, the guys who like aerobatic gassers (thats me), and the guys who just fly sport 40 and 60 planes. None of these groups of guys are interested in pylon. I've asked. They are all just stuck on their own little niche of the hobby, and have no interest in anything new. I LOVE stuff that goes fast and would really like to get a few guys interested in pylon, but no one wants to even talk about it. Not much fun boring holes in the sky all by yourself.

I have a Viper and a .46 engine, but not much point in flying it by myself.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

RCpilot,

Why don't you go up to Denver for the races there? It's only half the distance for you than what I drive to race with them.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

They run the TT 40. I don't have a TT .40 and don't want to race competetively. I have a Tower .46 and they won't let me run up there.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Rcpilet,

Are you talking about the Sky Corral club? If so, I'm sure that Sam and Duane Pisciotta would be willing to jaw with you about flying pylon. They were into F1 in the 80s. They burnt out on model planes for a while and went on to race cars (real cars--not sure what class) and they sure do have some stories. I've tried to get them interested in quickie but they both say they're into scale now. If you were to provide the spark, I'd bet it wouldn't take much to fan the flames. Especially if you approach them as an eager student of pylon seeking advice from the old pros. Stroke their egos--they are Italian after all . Then when they see how much fun you're having, they'll want to get back into it.

As for racing in Denver, a TT Pro .40 is only about $80. That's nothing compared to what you spend for a big gasser so don't even try to use that excuse!

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Pasciottas aren't interested in anything but warbirds right now. Maybe next year they will get tired of scrafing passes with a big and bulky warbird and I can tease them into picking up the pylons again. Duane is flying a B-25 and Sam is hooked on Mustangs.

DOH!! Your right.

smokingwreckage

Stick by the NMPRA and AMA safety guidelines. If you don't have enough space for minimum separation distances, the Quickee 500 planes (Dominator and Viper) fly just fine on a good bearing .25, even if it is completely stock right down to the muffler. Require the planes to be stock ARFS with a minimum square inches of stick-on graphics for identification. An engine claim rule reduces cheating. Allow only servos with a street price under $20. Require a 600mah ni-cad. Expect speeds approaching 100mph on the bearing .25s with 8x6 APC sport props. Only allow engines under $80 street price. If you look at the Magnum, OS, and GMS .25s, performance is about the same across the board. More people might be willing to join you if they can run an engine they already have. Let people run whatever fuel they want.

Two-pylon course is easier to officiate. Pilots not flying a particular heat can serve as turn judges.



ROG starts from idle (spotters off the runway before the start) add excitment.

Clark L

Hey Rcpilet.... I'm just curious. Why don't you wan't to race competetively? (I didn't know there was any other way) I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, I just wanted to know... If there was a race close enough to you, would you consider competing?

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but the statement you made started me thinking about why more people don't give pylon a try...

Clark

dwbebens

Yakmonoff;

I see a lot of good advice and ideas expressed in the replies to your original post. I don't have anything much to add to what's been said already. I agree with any or all of the suggestions. Any of these ideas can be used to get more pylon racing started. Pick one that your group likes and go for it.

The one issue I do want to comment on is your statement, " - - - I'm not interested in anything that has to do with the AMA". Since you ARE interested in flying RC in this country, then you ARE in fact interested in something to do with the AMA. Through their steady long-term efforts they have acquired and maintained for us all the frequencies that we use; frequencies that, with the exception of the 27 Mhz band, are exclusive for our use. Without their efforts, industry would have gobbled up ALL the frequencies. We would have none! You certainly don't have to belong to the AMA to fly RC, and I support that decision for those so inclined, but please at least appreciate what the AMA has done and will continue to do for all of us who love this sport.

Thanks

Doug Bebensee

EzySetup

Our club in Texas has used a "club racer" successfully for years. Some of the more skilled fellows in the club get together for a few evenings in the winter and put together 30 or 40 kits, which are sold for around $35. (If a person really doesn't want to put together a kit then they can use the Happy Fly 20 ARF by World Model Mfg Co LTD, although it's not really a competitive plane when compared to the club racer.) You must use one of three engines (OS25LA, OS25FP, or TT25GP). At this price, you can put together a couple of these planes for less than one of the larger standard pylon racers. Considering the carnage you can get a pylon race, cost IS a factor, at least for this pilot. Also, the club racer makes a great general sport plane. You will see one of them flying most any day of the week and there are always several out at our fun fly and float fly events.

You can get the details on the plane and the rules we fly by here: http://www.rrcc.org/ and clicking on the link that says "For race details and season summary, click here".

I'm going to get a couple of kits this year and try pylon racing myself for the first time. Wish me luck.

Regards,
Andrew

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Wow! Sorry for the late reply. But, someone drug this old thread out of the treasure chest and I just noticed it.

I don't want to race competitively for several reasons:
The primary reason is that I don't want to be bound by so many strict rules. Too many rules. I know the rules are designed to keep it fair, but to a newbie--there are just too many rules to worry about. Planes must be a certain weight. Can't be less than XX number of square inches. Engines are regulated to max RPM on a given prop. It's just too rigid. I just want to go out and have fun.

The cost. Let's face it, if you want to fly competitively, you need all the goodies or your at a serious disadvantage. All the other guys are flying special pizza cutter wheels that weigh nothing and cost a bunch. But, it's legal and if you don't do it too--your gonna loose. The other guys are flying bladder tanks and if you want to compete, then you need a bladder tank and a fueler too. The other guys are building planes with hidden control rods to streamline the airframes. I don't have the time or the inclination to go to that much trouble on a $125 ARF that I'm just going to turn into toothpicks--most likely sooner, rather than later.

I just got in touch with an old friend at the Arvada club and we are trying to get guys interested in doing "pylon" on a 2-pole course with World Models LA Racer airplanes with .46 engines.
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=91
http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2140

A local hobby shop manager is considering buying 10 of these for us at a discounted rate and sell the planes for like $75 apiece or something in that range.

Our rules are simple:
World Models 40 size LA Racer
.46 engine--any muffler except a tuned pipe
Have fun and don't get mad if you crash

Thats it.

So far we have about 6 or 7 guys interested. I'm going to buy 2 or 3 planes and have them all ready except for the motor. These planes build in about 4hrs. We can have them pre-built and ready to fly--except for the engine. I got a ton of standard JR servos, and I got about a dozen receivers and batteries. Build the whole plane except for the engine. When you crash--pull the motor mount off the firewall and slap it on the new plane. Ready for the next heat in 20 minutes. [sm=teeth_smile.gif]

The goal is to make it fun. We are only asking guys to race with us if they are the type of guy who isn't going to cry and whine if he crashes a $75 plane because someone accidentally cut him in a corner and crashed him. The planes are dirt cheap. The servos are cheap. The engines are cheap. Thats the whole point. Cheap speed and have a ton of fun without a bunch of rediculous rules to follow. Don't get your underwear in a knot if you crash it. It's cheap. Go put your motor on the next one and get your butt back out there for the next heat.

We're hoping to start practicing late this winter or early spring. Just need to get enough guys to commit to buying the planes from the LHS so he can order them and not get stuck with 3 or 4 of them.

Hopefully this will turn into something fun for a large group of guys.

Ken Erickson

Guys,

In San Antonio, we have low stress racing!!!! We are having a lot of fun!!! There is a group in Florida who do also.

We lease our field. The landlord wants his liability insurance. Therefore we must follow the dictates of the AMA Safety Code.

As we can only manage 500 feet betweeen the pylons and the people, we are limited to .40 engines. "People" are anyone not officiating or flying or spotting in the current heat.

If you have a landlord, for whom you provide an insurance certificate, you may need to read all pertinant documents related to the Safety Code. Check out the Club 40 Racing Hangout in this section.

Of course, if your landlord, with no insurance, You can do whatever you want, as long as you assume the risk.

Get 3 or 4 guys to start, and have a race. More will join in the next one.

Ken Erickson

We are one of the groups doing it.

John Casey

My Feedback: (4)

Pylon Racing is great ,
just don't let it get out of hand,
I belong to a club that let it get out of hand , now its all "they" do,
pylons up 24-7(in violation of club rules),
the rest of the membership stuck with constant race practice and it sucks

It destroyed a great club........so be very careful.

Super Splatter

racing = bad club

no racing = good club

Ok....