BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I was at a pylon race the other day and was surprised to see that several regular racers were on the same frequency. Why would that be?

Richard

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Its quite common that racing partners share the same frequency. This way they can always call for one another, without the chance of flying against each other.

I don't have an issue with this, but I have heard complaints when several top racers seem to show up on the same frequency at a contest.

PJ_TankPilot

Most races will limit the quantity of people on the same frequency. A large race of 50 pilots will usually keep the max at 4, medium races at 3, etc.

Racing teams fly on the same channel for 2 reasons:

1) Can call for each other.
2) Don’t take points away from each other.

LuvaraAir

My Feedback: (4)

I think it's pretty lame when people plan to be on the same frequency. Accidental frequency conflicts are ok. The Best races are when everyone gets to fly against everyone, otherwise what does it prove?

off my soapbox now.

Chris
www.luvaraairracing.com

Ed Smith

The solution is this. We all get on the "Top" racers frequency. We send in our entries real early and fill up all the spots. Then they will not be able to race.

Have you sent in your Nats entries yet??

Ed S

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

The whole idea by you and your partner getting on the same freq. is try and maintain some consistency by being able to use the same caller ALL the time.

AND... Chirs wrote that "the best races are when everyone gets to fly against everyone". You could have everyone on separate freq's and you still wouldn't race everyone. I've been to many races where I didn't fly against other people that were not even on my freq, due to the fact that they were in my column...

Yes I've signed up for the NATS and Ch28 is full.....6 guys.

Have a great day...
Randy Bridge
Team JR

daven

My Feedback: (1)

There will always be 25% of the racers you don't race anyways due to the columns in the matrix.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

How old is the formula used for the Matrix? Someone could probably come up with a better program on a Palm Pilot than the one being used now, which was probably designed to run on an abacus (OK, maybe a TRS-80).


RD

bl10

Lets get real here guys. First off the race management software was completely re-written a couple of years ago to incorporate a windows GUI as well as many new features. Thank you Paul!! The software has many functions besides generating a matrix. The race management software is provided free of charge to NMPRA members and it works very well. Keep in mind the Q40 / Q500 guys have different requirements than Giant Scale or other forms of local racing. Last year there were in excess of 600 pilots flying in more than 200 Q40 and Q500 races. Some events like the Nats Q500 have 80 or so entrants (4 times as many pilots as permitted freqs). Every form of model aircraft racing I've been involved in (I have no direct exposure to Giant Scale) permits multiple entries on the same freq. The reason for this is two fold. First there are not enough frequencies to permit a unique freq for every pilot. If you were to assign frequencies locally what happens to the guy who travels to away races. Unless you are using one of the Synthized radios it is difficult to change freq especially on AT and Hitec. The Futaba and JR guys do change freq to some extent. I don't think it's very workable to tell a new guy who shows up for a local race he can't race because he is on the same freq as someone else. (This does happen once in a while even with the 3 or 4 per channel rule but we can generally work around it). The second reason for multiple entries on the same freq is teams. There are guys who have called for each other for years. In order to do this they have to be on the same freq. Actually most of this in a mute point in Q500 and Q40 due to the implementation of wing stripes which by definition limit the number of guys you can fly against in a given race.

In closing give credit where credit is due and realize our racing system is geared to provide an inexpensive and fun style of racing with a set of rules which permit going pretty much anywhere in the country, Mexico and Canada and race rule book events. It has evolved thru the years to be the most stable and successful form of model aircraft racing.


Barry Leavengood

PJ_TankPilot

>>It has evolved thru the years to be the most stable and successful form of model aircraft racing.

Absolutely. (I am not talking about Vodka)

Wing flags and off course pylon judging work so well, they are not going away soon.
As long as we have wing flags, you will race in the same lane for the duration.
So, as mentioned before, you will not race against 25% of the pilots entered that are in your lane.

Generating a good matrix sounds like a trivial exercise. It is not. There is a lot more involved than avoiding frequency conflicts.

The single biggest problem I encounter is people registering for a race on the wrong frequency. The morning of the race when the matrix has been posted and the heat cards printed, one or two will say “You have me on the wrong channel”.

PylonWorld

I can atest that this is absolutely true. I started working on a race management system, and dealing with all of the situations is a seemingly infinite task. Many, like the one mentioned above have no good solution, or it takes a brilliant algorithm to conquer if there is a solution at all.

It is also messy if you try to deal with a matrix that doesn't use columns, and you allow multiple pilots on the same frequency.


Chris,

Just in case you aren't aware of what "wing flags" are, I'll explain. The whole issue of airplane identification was solved by some (truly) brilliant person that realized that AMA events sorted pilots into columns. They realized that if they used easily identifiable colors is a standard location on the plane, there would be no need to identify the planes to the judges, who have a very hard time of keeping up with 170-190 mph planes with a 50"-56" wingspan and minimal fuselages, and plane color schemes are easily confused. So, two colors are usually used. Flourescent/neon pink and yellow. Two lanes share the same color, but one lane has the stickers on the left wing and the other lane has the stickers on the right wing. Then the judges can identify the planes as simply "low red", "high red", "low yellow", or "high yellow".

Yes, the AMA style of racing has some compromises compared to "Reno" style racing. But the compromises have worked since the mid to late sixties when "Goodyear" Formula 1 racing started.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

OK Barry, that explains a lot about the matrix that I didn't consider, thanks.

I also understand the need for multiple racers per frequency and that people will always use the rules to their advantage when possible.

I guess I could go on your frequency for T-6 racing but I'd rather try to beat you head to head. It just seems more competative to me but, to each his own.

Richard

DHG

My Feedback: (7)

An alternative is to use 4 different colors, or 3 different colors plus "blank". The ones in common usage right now are made by a company called Uline, and are sold as 4" x 6" "laser labels". The available colors are pink, orange, red, yellow, and green. See http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_1240.asp.

Put one label on the bottom of the wing, wrapping around the leading edge, and another on the top of the wing, wrapping around the leading edge. Tape one standard U.S. nickel (5 cents)to the opposite wingtip to counterbalance the weight of the labels. After the race is over, peel off the labels and clean off any adhesive residue with lighter fluid or Goo Gone (R). Spend the nickel on a good cigar and smoke it in the car on the way home. That way the wife and kids will leave you alone while you meticulously store your racing gear and make minor repairs, so you're ready to go next time.

Hey, it's lonely at the top.

DHG

My Feedback: (7)

let's try that Uline address again, this time without the stray period on the end ...

http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_1240.asp

PJ_TankPilot

If you plan on using the NMPRA Race software, you probably want to get pink and green. The program prints out a representation on the heat sheet showing the wing flags for the 4 lanes. The images shown are low-pink, low-green, high-pink and high-green. If you want to use a different scheme, you can change the 4 image files with any image editing software.

--------------------

My reality check bounced.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

If you have a monocoat covered wing don,t even think about trying to peel the flags without FIRST wetting the flag out with the lighter fluid, its magic.

Took me a while to figure out lighter fliuid is a must in the racing kit at the field. Silly me, always thinking I will do it at home. Ya sure, and then the mattrix gets redone for some reason and Ya gotta change the flag in a rush before you start

Or you just end up plopping the right color over the wrong one and then I suppose you will have to tape two of DHG's nickles on. Oh boy there goes the rising cost of racing agine!

John
New team banner Will fly for Nickles