Nashville Races
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Nashville Races
Hi All;
The last Nashville race of '08 will be held this Saturday, Nov 8, 2008 at Cane Ridge Park hosted by the Mid Tennessee RC Society (MTRCS). See their website http://www.mtrcs.com/ for rules and location.
We will be racing three classes; Q400, 1/4 scale F1, and Warbird. Gas is cheap now, so come on over and have a fun day with us.
Doug Bebensee
The last Nashville race of '08 will be held this Saturday, Nov 8, 2008 at Cane Ridge Park hosted by the Mid Tennessee RC Society (MTRCS). See their website http://www.mtrcs.com/ for rules and location.
We will be racing three classes; Q400, 1/4 scale F1, and Warbird. Gas is cheap now, so come on over and have a fun day with us.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Hi Everyone;
The racing season is over here in Nashville. We had a lot of races, but unfortunately we didn't have the participation we were hoping for.
The organizers of these races and I are discussing what we could do for next year to improve our racing in order get greater numbers of entries.
I won't go into the details of our discussions, but I would sincerely like suggestions from all of you about how we could improve things here in Nashville considering the classes we run. It is not my intention to publicly discuss the pro's and con's of these suggestions here on the forums; I would just like to "brainstorm" ideas. Just throw-out ideas for us to consider - - any ideas.
I will give you some more details of our classes and our reasoning for them:
All our classes except Club 40 (400' course) are run on a 500' two-pole course using a flying start. We run Q-400, Warbird, and 1/4 scale F1 all on the same day (Saturdays) and at the same field (Cane Ridge Park). We run the Club 40 races at Peeler Park. We are done by about 1:00 pm and have food available at noon. We always have enough workers and don't have to beat the bushes for them. They come out to help on their own and seem to enjoy helping. We offer a couple raffle prizes for the workers after the race. Our entry fees range from $8 to $6 per class. Our awards are certificates. All our classes specify stock motors, mufflers, carburetors, and props. We allow any fuel for Q-400, Warbird, and 1/4 scale F1, but we supply 15% fuel for Club 40. There seems to be very little contentions behavior, except of course while actually racing. The few complaints I've heard have been dealt with as best we can. We try to keep and maintain a level playing field. For the most part (see the Warbird section below for the exception), I think we have done that.
Q-400
- We specify 424 airframes with the TT GP 42 engine and the APC 9-6 prop.
- We get four to six entries per race.
- Our initial reasoning was to slow the Quickee class down a little and use an engine that is also used for our entry level class (Club 40). That way, a pilot who wanted to move up to Q-400 would already have the engine.
Warbird
- We have two divisions, two-stroke and four-stroke. These two divisions race together in heats but are scored and awarded separately.
- We have a formula that specifies maximum engine size vs. wing area; i.e. divide the wing area by 1000. Four-stroke engine size is 1.5 times the two-stroke size.
- We get two to four entries per race.
- There is a huge difference in speeds between the smaller two-stroke planes and the larger four-stroke planes which makes for some not-so-close racing.
- Our initial reasoning was to keep the speeds within reason and to have parity between the two and four-stroke planes so they could race together. It didn't work out that way for us. Also, we were thinking that warbirds would have good spectator and pilot appeal.
1/4 Scale F1
- 1/4 scale F1 airframes such as the Great Planes Little Toni, Cosmic Wind Minnow, Shoestring, and the World Models Midget Mustang, etc.
- We specify a four-stroke .91 (not YS or other supercharged types)
- We get two to six entries in this class. This is the most even of all the classes. I'm sure any one of us racing this class would do as well using anyone else's plane, that's how even it is. The races are close and intense with a lot of spectator appeal.
Club 40
- This is our newest class; just started last spring. We've had four races this season.
- We specify the World Models Skyraider Mk II airframe.
- We have two classes; Novice and Advanced. The Novice class requires the TT GP 42 engine and the Advanced class has a number of engines to choose from (see the RCPRO engine list), but the TT Pro 40 is the preferred engine.
- Novice pilots must not have pylon raced before, or only have raced before in Novice class. Once you move to Advanced class (or any other class) you can't go back.
- We get from 9 to 12 entries in Club 40.
- Our reason for this class is to induce people to try pylon racing and then move up to the more advanced classes later on. It is working to a degree, but hopefully will be better next year.
- Another local club, the Hickman County Model Aviators (HCMA) hosted a Club 40 race this fall in Bon Aqua TN. The club was and still is enthusiastic about this and we will have more races there next year. The turn-out wasn't so good, but we'll try again next year.
Well, there it is. Please feel free to offer your suggestions. Again, let's not nit-pick the suggestions publicly on the forum; this would inhibit suggestions I think. We just want a lot of ideas to mull over.
Thanks
Doug Bebensee
The racing season is over here in Nashville. We had a lot of races, but unfortunately we didn't have the participation we were hoping for.
The organizers of these races and I are discussing what we could do for next year to improve our racing in order get greater numbers of entries.
I won't go into the details of our discussions, but I would sincerely like suggestions from all of you about how we could improve things here in Nashville considering the classes we run. It is not my intention to publicly discuss the pro's and con's of these suggestions here on the forums; I would just like to "brainstorm" ideas. Just throw-out ideas for us to consider - - any ideas.
I will give you some more details of our classes and our reasoning for them:
All our classes except Club 40 (400' course) are run on a 500' two-pole course using a flying start. We run Q-400, Warbird, and 1/4 scale F1 all on the same day (Saturdays) and at the same field (Cane Ridge Park). We run the Club 40 races at Peeler Park. We are done by about 1:00 pm and have food available at noon. We always have enough workers and don't have to beat the bushes for them. They come out to help on their own and seem to enjoy helping. We offer a couple raffle prizes for the workers after the race. Our entry fees range from $8 to $6 per class. Our awards are certificates. All our classes specify stock motors, mufflers, carburetors, and props. We allow any fuel for Q-400, Warbird, and 1/4 scale F1, but we supply 15% fuel for Club 40. There seems to be very little contentions behavior, except of course while actually racing. The few complaints I've heard have been dealt with as best we can. We try to keep and maintain a level playing field. For the most part (see the Warbird section below for the exception), I think we have done that.
Q-400
- We specify 424 airframes with the TT GP 42 engine and the APC 9-6 prop.
- We get four to six entries per race.
- Our initial reasoning was to slow the Quickee class down a little and use an engine that is also used for our entry level class (Club 40). That way, a pilot who wanted to move up to Q-400 would already have the engine.
Warbird
- We have two divisions, two-stroke and four-stroke. These two divisions race together in heats but are scored and awarded separately.
- We have a formula that specifies maximum engine size vs. wing area; i.e. divide the wing area by 1000. Four-stroke engine size is 1.5 times the two-stroke size.
- We get two to four entries per race.
- There is a huge difference in speeds between the smaller two-stroke planes and the larger four-stroke planes which makes for some not-so-close racing.
- Our initial reasoning was to keep the speeds within reason and to have parity between the two and four-stroke planes so they could race together. It didn't work out that way for us. Also, we were thinking that warbirds would have good spectator and pilot appeal.
1/4 Scale F1
- 1/4 scale F1 airframes such as the Great Planes Little Toni, Cosmic Wind Minnow, Shoestring, and the World Models Midget Mustang, etc.
- We specify a four-stroke .91 (not YS or other supercharged types)
- We get two to six entries in this class. This is the most even of all the classes. I'm sure any one of us racing this class would do as well using anyone else's plane, that's how even it is. The races are close and intense with a lot of spectator appeal.
Club 40
- This is our newest class; just started last spring. We've had four races this season.
- We specify the World Models Skyraider Mk II airframe.
- We have two classes; Novice and Advanced. The Novice class requires the TT GP 42 engine and the Advanced class has a number of engines to choose from (see the RCPRO engine list), but the TT Pro 40 is the preferred engine.
- Novice pilots must not have pylon raced before, or only have raced before in Novice class. Once you move to Advanced class (or any other class) you can't go back.
- We get from 9 to 12 entries in Club 40.
- Our reason for this class is to induce people to try pylon racing and then move up to the more advanced classes later on. It is working to a degree, but hopefully will be better next year.
- Another local club, the Hickman County Model Aviators (HCMA) hosted a Club 40 race this fall in Bon Aqua TN. The club was and still is enthusiastic about this and we will have more races there next year. The turn-out wasn't so good, but we'll try again next year.
Well, there it is. Please feel free to offer your suggestions. Again, let's not nit-pick the suggestions publicly on the forum; this would inhibit suggestions I think. We just want a lot of ideas to mull over.
Thanks
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Just a thought. Go back to 3 pole real racing (sorry, I could not resist) and
I think the participation would increase. There used to be huge crowds at the
Nashville races. I know that I would rarely miss a race if it was 3 pole.
Not what you want to hear but you did ask for suggestions.
Brad
I think the participation would increase. There used to be huge crowds at the
Nashville races. I know that I would rarely miss a race if it was 3 pole.
Not what you want to hear but you did ask for suggestions.
Brad
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RE: Nashville Races
Hi Doug, I am glad your races are going good up there! I will tell you that down here the workshops we had was a great boost for new pilots. We actually had 12 - 16 in 424 for the last few races, and the quality of these pilots is better than you could imagine! I felt challenged at every heat, and got beat a few heats by the new boys on the block! You need to make sure it isn't a "race", and try to pair the pros with the new guys and allow them the chance to learn 1 on 1 with the pilots who can answer all their questions. Allow the pros to coach, test fly, call or them or whatever they need help with. Teaching future pilots how to race is a great way to get them into it. I will send you my workshop documents if you would like to use them.
I also have noticed that by running more classes down here doesn't really bring in more pilots. Most guys will fly 1 class only, or a few will fly 2 classes. Attendance seems about the same. Maybe try to hold a race with 2 classes one month, them the other 2 classes in another month. This will allow a higher attendance in each class, as the pilots aren't trying to prepare multiple planes between heats.
Another idea is what the APRA 424 class does. Run 1 engine only (TT PRO40ABC) and experts and novice in the same heats. A novice pilot runs 9 laps, the experts have to run all 10 laps. You would then promote a novice pilot to expert by virtue of an event win (not a heat!) or by turning a certain heat time. In 424, I think that time is 1:45 for 9 laps, which is just 2-3 seconds slower than a fast time for 10 laps typically. This may up the attendance in the class.
Again, good job and good luck Doug. I hope to get to race you again one day!
I also have noticed that by running more classes down here doesn't really bring in more pilots. Most guys will fly 1 class only, or a few will fly 2 classes. Attendance seems about the same. Maybe try to hold a race with 2 classes one month, them the other 2 classes in another month. This will allow a higher attendance in each class, as the pilots aren't trying to prepare multiple planes between heats.
Another idea is what the APRA 424 class does. Run 1 engine only (TT PRO40ABC) and experts and novice in the same heats. A novice pilot runs 9 laps, the experts have to run all 10 laps. You would then promote a novice pilot to expert by virtue of an event win (not a heat!) or by turning a certain heat time. In 424, I think that time is 1:45 for 9 laps, which is just 2-3 seconds slower than a fast time for 10 laps typically. This may up the attendance in the class.
Again, good job and good luck Doug. I hope to get to race you again one day!
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RE: Nashville Races
Thanks so much Scott and Brad. I'm going to keep ALL of these ideas and present them to our race organizers to consider. I'm not weeding out ANYTHING at this time. Keep the ideas coming.
Scott, I certainly would like your workshop documents. Please send them to me at [email protected]. Early next year I'm going to hold race workshops based on your format. Your success with this proves that you have something that works.
Doug Bebensee
Scott, I certainly would like your workshop documents. Please send them to me at [email protected]. Early next year I'm going to hold race workshops based on your format. Your success with this proves that you have something that works.
Doug Bebensee
#6
RE: Nashville Races
Hey there Doug!
Good racing Blue Rays with you down here twice this season! I learned a lot from you from your seminar and in the racing. Thanks so much!
I've seen you and Tim fly that World Models Skyraider Mk II. Looks good and looks like fun. Big enough to see at a distance and probably much easier to fly than our little buzz bombs on our very short course. But I for one do not see glow-powered anything in my future plans. But if there was something a little larger than what we flew here this year and still electric, that might be a good starting point for non-expert flyers like me. And not necessarily just as a lead-in to glo flight, but as a class to compete in for some time. Perhaps have some sort of formula for wing area proportional to a maximum of Volts x Amp Hours of battery pack as an equalizer. That way any size plane and any S pack would be allowed, but kept proportional.
Nashville is far enough away that who knows how many from Huntsville would drive up there regardless of what you are racing.
And I may be a very lonely minority of special interest and glo-resistance. I tried to interest my local electric pilot buddies in pylon racing, but I got no takers even when we were out flying and I set up my pylons out on the field. All they had to do was circle the pylons once or twice to show/tell, but nobody would.
We did one race this year here with an added run what you brung electric class (actually two classes). We got a fair amount of interest of that, all things considered, and with very little publicity.
Anyway, electric and/or run what you brung is something to throw into your hopper of considerations.
One thing I found personally disappointing this season here was my inability to find or to develop the local social interactions I had hoped among racers. I don't know what to suggest about that other than to adjust my expectations way downwards.
Jim
Good racing Blue Rays with you down here twice this season! I learned a lot from you from your seminar and in the racing. Thanks so much!
I've seen you and Tim fly that World Models Skyraider Mk II. Looks good and looks like fun. Big enough to see at a distance and probably much easier to fly than our little buzz bombs on our very short course. But I for one do not see glow-powered anything in my future plans. But if there was something a little larger than what we flew here this year and still electric, that might be a good starting point for non-expert flyers like me. And not necessarily just as a lead-in to glo flight, but as a class to compete in for some time. Perhaps have some sort of formula for wing area proportional to a maximum of Volts x Amp Hours of battery pack as an equalizer. That way any size plane and any S pack would be allowed, but kept proportional.
Nashville is far enough away that who knows how many from Huntsville would drive up there regardless of what you are racing.
And I may be a very lonely minority of special interest and glo-resistance. I tried to interest my local electric pilot buddies in pylon racing, but I got no takers even when we were out flying and I set up my pylons out on the field. All they had to do was circle the pylons once or twice to show/tell, but nobody would.
We did one race this year here with an added run what you brung electric class (actually two classes). We got a fair amount of interest of that, all things considered, and with very little publicity.
Anyway, electric and/or run what you brung is something to throw into your hopper of considerations.
One thing I found personally disappointing this season here was my inability to find or to develop the local social interactions I had hoped among racers. I don't know what to suggest about that other than to adjust my expectations way downwards.
Jim
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RE: Nashville Races
HI, Doug......I'm a new racer (last 2 years) in Club 40 in the Central Texas area. I have been flying for many years, but had never tried racing due to cost and having to go get my butt whipped by the "big boys" for years before being competetive. Club 40 is fast enough to be fun, cheap enough to not worry about crashes, and even enough with the experienced racers to still feel good about losing as you come up the learning curve.
Club 40 is thought to be "entry level prep for real racing" by many, but many other new racers I have talked to aren't interested in going past maybe 424 as a next step and if the racing was 3 pole, they (and I) would go home and forget the racing thing. Experienced folks may be in love with 3 pole, but I for one am not interested in flying a 5 lb. missile directly at myself at 130 mph or better.
Suggestions from a new guy:
1) keep it fun - that means the new guys don't go home feeling stepped on (we've lost new racers that way)
2) mentoring or training days or workshops or sharing by experienced racers is a MUST
3) comeraderie among racers is a must - I would have quit real quick without help and friendship from a long-time racer. The informal fly-ins and parties we've had in our group helps solidify interest and FRIENDLY competition.
4) more heats per day of racing so the new folks get more actual racing experience.
5) stepping up to the next class is an option but not EXPECTED. Some folks are happy with club 40..........
6)attitude from the "big dogs" will make or break long term interest levels. Winning for the sake of winning on the part of the experienced racers (even among themselves) doesn't leave a good taste in the new guy's mouth.
Club 40 is thought to be "entry level prep for real racing" by many, but many other new racers I have talked to aren't interested in going past maybe 424 as a next step and if the racing was 3 pole, they (and I) would go home and forget the racing thing. Experienced folks may be in love with 3 pole, but I for one am not interested in flying a 5 lb. missile directly at myself at 130 mph or better.
Suggestions from a new guy:
1) keep it fun - that means the new guys don't go home feeling stepped on (we've lost new racers that way)
2) mentoring or training days or workshops or sharing by experienced racers is a MUST
3) comeraderie among racers is a must - I would have quit real quick without help and friendship from a long-time racer. The informal fly-ins and parties we've had in our group helps solidify interest and FRIENDLY competition.
4) more heats per day of racing so the new folks get more actual racing experience.
5) stepping up to the next class is an option but not EXPECTED. Some folks are happy with club 40..........
6)attitude from the "big dogs" will make or break long term interest levels. Winning for the sake of winning on the part of the experienced racers (even among themselves) doesn't leave a good taste in the new guy's mouth.
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RE: Nashville Races
Greetings from Nashville;
Here is our racing schedule for 2009 for the Music City Challenge racing series:
Club 40
4-11, 5-16, 6-6, 7-18, 9-19
All the Club 40 races will be at the Peeler Park field, Nashville.
I will be the CD for all the Club 40 races.
Warbird/Q-400/1/4 scale F1
7-2*, 5-23**, 6-27*, 7-25*, 9-26**, 10-10*
*These races will be held at the Cane Ridge Park field, Nashville
** These will be held at the Tupelo MS field.
See our rules at http://www.mtrcs.com/
We have recently changed the Warbird class rules. The most significant change is that there is a 500 sq-in minimum wing area. Also, we have tightened-up the definition of “Warbird†and how they are to be decorated. The previous rules had serious loopholes and the disparity in speed between the various sizes was ridiculous. We are confident that the new rules will fix this.
The new Warbird rules haven’t been updated yet, but soon will be. All the other class rules are up-to-date.
Doug Bebensee
Here is our racing schedule for 2009 for the Music City Challenge racing series:
Club 40
4-11, 5-16, 6-6, 7-18, 9-19
All the Club 40 races will be at the Peeler Park field, Nashville.
I will be the CD for all the Club 40 races.
Warbird/Q-400/1/4 scale F1
7-2*, 5-23**, 6-27*, 7-25*, 9-26**, 10-10*
*These races will be held at the Cane Ridge Park field, Nashville
** These will be held at the Tupelo MS field.
See our rules at http://www.mtrcs.com/
We have recently changed the Warbird class rules. The most significant change is that there is a 500 sq-in minimum wing area. Also, we have tightened-up the definition of “Warbird†and how they are to be decorated. The previous rules had serious loopholes and the disparity in speed between the various sizes was ridiculous. We are confident that the new rules will fix this.
The new Warbird rules haven’t been updated yet, but soon will be. All the other class rules are up-to-date.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Saturday - Saturday - Saturday . . . RC pylon planes RIPPING around the pylons . . . BATTLING wing tip to wing tip . . . DEFYING the laws of gravity . . . INSANE speeds . . . UNBELIEVABLE excitement . . . CANE RIDGE PARK - BE THERE !!!
Boogity - boogity - boogity, let's go racin' boys.
Racing at Cane Ridge Park, Nashville, TN on May 2nd.
Q-400, Warbirds, 1/4 scale Formula 1
Y'all come.
Doug Bebensee
Boogity - boogity - boogity, let's go racin' boys.
Racing at Cane Ridge Park, Nashville, TN on May 2nd.
Q-400, Warbirds, 1/4 scale Formula 1
Y'all come.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Marauderer;
I suppose you could re-fit one of your warbirds with a smaller engine than allowed in the RCPRO rules and come play with us.
It has been our intent, with our rules, to keep the speeds down to a level where we can fly a shorter course at the more restricted areas we have available. We want to improve spectator appeal, (and possibly future pylon pilot appeal) by requiring scale appearance both in shape and decoration in Warbird. Also, it is intended that the rules for our classes promote a very gradual increase in speeds as a recently-new-to-pylon-person works his way up from Club 40, to Q-400, to Warbird or F1. We have a number of people, who only recently started racing in Club 40, who are already getting into Q-400.
Doug Bebensee
I suppose you could re-fit one of your warbirds with a smaller engine than allowed in the RCPRO rules and come play with us.
It has been our intent, with our rules, to keep the speeds down to a level where we can fly a shorter course at the more restricted areas we have available. We want to improve spectator appeal, (and possibly future pylon pilot appeal) by requiring scale appearance both in shape and decoration in Warbird. Also, it is intended that the rules for our classes promote a very gradual increase in speeds as a recently-new-to-pylon-person works his way up from Club 40, to Q-400, to Warbird or F1. We have a number of people, who only recently started racing in Club 40, who are already getting into Q-400.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
If I come over it will be for your Club 40 events as I have them ready to go. I notice in your club rules that most of your events are not standardized so folks outside your area can just enter and fly. I guess the closest event would be Club 40. I couldn't find AMA421 rules but I just went to the AMA web site and tried to look it up. It had 422 rules but didn't mention 421. The club 40 rules were very close to the RCPRO rules as AMA has yet to recognize the Club 40. If I want to come over and compete it is a good thing I am running the SRMII and not the LA Racer. Anyway I hope to come over later this year as I am in California until at least the middle of May and it is open after that. It sounds like you have a good group and that there is interest in your area.
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RE: Nashville Races
Marauderer;
See page 19 on the AMA pylon racing rules PDF document re. "Event 421: Formula 1 Sport"
We'd be glad to have you race with us whatever class you choose.
Doug Bebensee
See page 19 on the AMA pylon racing rules PDF document re. "Event 421: Formula 1 Sport"
We'd be glad to have you race with us whatever class you choose.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Hi All;
Saturday - Saturday - Saturday . . . RC pylon planes RIPPING around the pylons . . . BATTLING wing tip to wing tip . . . DEFYING the laws of gravity . . . INSANE speeds . . . UNBELIEVABLE excitement . . .
CANE RIDGE PARK - BE THERE !!!
Boogity - boogity - boogity, let's go racin' boys.
Racing at Cane Ridge Park, Nashville, TN on May 23 rd
Q-400, Warbirds, 1/4 scale Formula 1
See http://www.mtrcs.com/
It looks like the weather will be OK for once.
Y'all come.
Doug Bebensee
Saturday - Saturday - Saturday . . . RC pylon planes RIPPING around the pylons . . . BATTLING wing tip to wing tip . . . DEFYING the laws of gravity . . . INSANE speeds . . . UNBELIEVABLE excitement . . .
CANE RIDGE PARK - BE THERE !!!
Boogity - boogity - boogity, let's go racin' boys.
Racing at Cane Ridge Park, Nashville, TN on May 23 rd
Q-400, Warbirds, 1/4 scale Formula 1
See http://www.mtrcs.com/
It looks like the weather will be OK for once.
Y'all come.
Doug Bebensee
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RE: Nashville Races
Doug - it was great meeting you at the race in Wichita this past weekend, glad you made the long trip! Not only that, you did pretty well, too!
Hope you'll be able to make it again this fall, when the Wichita guys thrown another race. Having family in the area makes it easier to travel that far, eh?
That AJ of Scott's was fun, I might have to put together a Q40 sport, too.
Hope you'll be able to make it again this fall, when the Wichita guys thrown another race. Having family in the area makes it easier to travel that far, eh?
That AJ of Scott's was fun, I might have to put together a Q40 sport, too.