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Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Old 10-05-2013, 08:54 PM
  #1576  
crownline
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No maiden today, got to the field , range checked , fueled up , shot of whiskey to calm the nerves , checked batteries and the ignition battery was dead. i ran the motor last night
and with no issues with it then. charged all batteries last night, all switches were off, and today the battery had no reading at all . almost like a broken wire, anyway will try for next weekend.

Steve
Old 10-05-2013, 09:27 PM
  #1577  
kittykatjaz
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Hi Steve,

That's a pity but best it is like that on the ground before taking to the skies.

Keep us posted on how you go

Jaz
Old 10-06-2013, 08:11 AM
  #1578  
RichardGee
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While we wait for Steve to maiden, I thought I would share my latest Gee Bee mods... Although this beast flies like a scalded monkey with a 3W157CS, I thought it would be nice to reduce the level of "frantic" by eliminating weight, noise, and cubic inches to find perhaps a better balance between performance and handling, while also reducing the 'pucker factor'
Having flown this airplane with a DA100 and seeing plenty of others flown with similar engines, I believe a DA120 might be the perfect combination of weight and power, BUT removing nearly 4 pounds of engine from the nose requires major surgery, lest I am forced to simply add it back to the tail...
To that end, I am modifying the elevator into a pull/pull configuraton, joining both halves via CF rod, and hinging them per the full scale Gee Bee. ALL servos will be mounted far forward utilizing pull/pull cables for both rudder and elevator.




Old 10-06-2013, 08:27 AM
  #1579  
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The first thing I discovered (with a new engine dome) was that the "top" of the dome (based on the location of panel lines) is NOT the correct top as this would result in the engine right thrust being incorrect. I highly suggest using a digital angle meter to verify the actual center/maximum of the dome right thrust. The diminutive DA120 requires a considerable stand-off to position it far enough forward, but this is even more pronounced when utilizing the scale cowl I produced. But of course, that is ALL GOOD since the reduction in nose weight will be partially off-set by the shift of everything far forward
Although canisters are neither required at my field NOR do they contribute to lower weight, I feel the reduction in noise will improve the overall "pilot peace of mind" which is an acceptible trade-off in my book.. and these Zimmermann's worked so perfectly on this DA120 in a previous plane, I simply had to incorporate them. Add to that a quiet CF Mejlik 29x10S and I am hoping for a big reduction in FRANTIC!
The ENTIRE engine, exhaust, ignition, dome, mount, etc. weighs the same as the 3W157CS alone, so the reduction in weight is considerable.
I am ready to repaint the elevator assembly and permanantly install it. At that stage, I can check the CG and determine exactly where the equipment must be placed. I am also applying panel line and rivet detail to the scale cowl as well as dummy radial mounts prior to painting.
Will provide updates as I have them.
GOOD LUCK with your maiden Stevo!



Last edited by RichardGee; 10-06-2013 at 08:30 AM.
Old 10-12-2013, 03:14 PM
  #1580  
Chris Nicastro
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Finally maidened the Gee Bee today. Wow!
This one is set up with a Moki 250 and 32X14 prop. We started the engine and got it warmed up and did all the usual preflight checks. All was good to go. I did some taxi tests to get a feel for things and all checked out.
The field had a slight crosswind component with winds variable up to about 10mph. This is a 700+ft grass runway about 100ft wide. I was concerned with the wind and we waited for a while to see if it would turn and line up. Eventually it did by the end of the flight on landing. Going left to right I lined up for a slight diagonal take off into the wind, from near to far. All looked good, felt good, so I cleared out the engine and began to power up and roll out. Adding power and right rudder the tail came up quickly and I let the speed build on the mains. I was concered about the small rudder and short character of the plane but once the power is applied the plane just planted itself and tracked very well.
I pulled back gradually and from my point of view the take of distance was moderate but the guys said it seemed like less than 100ft. That seemed like a short estimate to me but I cant verify it. It didnt take long and I had the power at about 50%.
Climb out was uneventfull and no roll trim needed. I needed a lot of up trim and eventually I used all of the up trim but still required a slight amount by hand.
I have throttle and rudder mix programmed based on the manual suggestion and for sure this plane needs it. I added right rudder trim and did the rest by hand.
In flight I never pushed high speed or high G's just some basic flying, a roll, and two stall tests. The stock aileron throws are just fine the roll rate is good. The elevator can use another 10% up throw I believe.
Due to the molded in rudder fin compensation it takes some getting use to and you do fly the rudder carefully especially in right turns. This is where we're going to do some fine tuning in the rudder mix.
Finally the feared landing approach practice was next. My first pass was fast and low to get an idea of what to expect. The plane is very stable and straight forward to handle. Next pass I came in slower and lower then touched down and took off again, again no problem the engine came up on power gradually as commanded and the plane was stable as it flew past and away. The last approach was lower still and slower than before. The wind cooperated and lined up with the runway as onlookers called out the sock position at zero for me. I still favored the closer in approach and aimed at touching down near my position because I had walked down to the southern most side of the runway to give me more run out. The Gee Bee touched down with a small hop and I corrected then it settled in and rolled out about 400ft to a stop. I used full rudder left and right to keep it on the center of the runway with no problems. The struts soaked up the bumps and roughness of the runway. I shut it down in place and took a deep breath!

Fine tuning tips;
The elevators were initially trimmed so that the mold seams are lined up with the stab seams. This was the zero position for initial flight. As a result the plane in flight needs more up elevator to fly level. The CG was set to the manual recommended position and flown with a full tank of gas. Some minor CG adjustment and a slight increase in up throw will help.

The two Jesus bolts that are under the belly and tie the cables to the fuse from the gear are going to get a plate set inside and out. This will distribute the load across the plates not into the blind nuts and wood so much.

The servo mounts are bolted into the fuse skin per the manual and this just wont do. The skin is a composite of foam and fiberglass and compresses when the bolts are tightened. This will ultimately fail as the composite disintegrates. This will be redesigned and still serviceable.

So in the end it was more intimidating to appraoch this plane and fly it than the reality of flying it. You just have to go for it basically. Im very satisfied with the maiden flight and happy to bring it home complete. Amazing plane and more amazing Moki engine!
Old 10-12-2013, 08:17 PM
  #1581  
crownline
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Chris
Great job today !!
i hope mine turns out as good as yours did. going for it tomorrow weather permitting.

Steve
Old 10-12-2013, 10:43 PM
  #1582  
Chris Nicastro
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Thanks Steve, sorry I cant be there but I wish you the best! Later I hope we can fly them together once we work out the details.
Pray for calm winds with the clear sky they predict!
I'll get in touch with you to see how its going.

Chris
Old 10-13-2013, 07:32 AM
  #1583  
RichardGee
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CONGRATS CHRIS! Any possibility we might see some video?
As far as the elevator servo mounting points at fuselage rear, I have always laminated a thin (1/16) plywood plate about twice the size of the servo trays to the inside of the fuselage to provide some thickness through which to mount the elevator servo trays. Otherwise, as you say, the fiberglass itself is not going to hold up and in some cases, could flex when subjected to high elevator pressures. With a Moki 250 up front, tail weight is not much of a concern for you!

I have never seen a Gee Bee R1/R2 that did NOT require substantial elevator up trim, so yours is no exception and a GRASS runway makes take-offs and landings a HECK of alot easier!
Regardless, in the hands of a bad pilot, the Gee Bee is a bad airplane, and in the hands of a good pilot, it is a GOOD airplane
Old 10-13-2013, 01:15 PM
  #1584  
RichardGee
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The DA120 conversion continues to progress. CG and weight were checked today. At present, the plane weighs 31.4 pounds (14.25 kg), which is 4 pounds less than it did with the 3W157. Ready to fly (less gas) I anticipate an overall weight savings of at least 3.5 pounds... less than I had hoped for, but substantial none the less. I knew that opting for canisters over mufflers would come with a weight penalty, but felt the sound and performance was worth the trade-off.

It will be no problem to locate radio gear forward for the correct CG. The longer cowl REALLY helped!
Time to build my equipment tray and set up the pull/pull for both servos.
It is also time to paint the elevator unit and cowl.


Last edited by RichardGee; 10-13-2013 at 01:18 PM.
Old 10-13-2013, 02:54 PM
  #1585  
kittykatjaz
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Wooohooo Chris,

Well done on the maiden it sure is a buzz to fly.

Jaz
Old 10-14-2013, 02:07 PM
  #1586  
crownline
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Well I had a successful maiden flight yesterday !!! I think my hart is still racing, that airplane sure burns up a lot of sky in a hurry.
I sure love the sound of that Moki 215 at times it was hard to hear because my knees were knocking together.
this was a good weekend at our field with Chris maiden his on Saturday and mine on Sunday.
it took me a few approaches to get the right speed and angle. I think the first several were too steep and too fast. on my second flight
I came in shallower and slower and that seemed to work better for me. I had a friend video it but he kind of sucks at it ,so I will see if I have any thing to work with .
hopefully I can post something tomorrow.

Steve
Old 10-14-2013, 07:12 PM
  #1587  
Chris Nicastro
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Here is the video Steve took of my flight, see if this link works...

http://youtu.be/ERw_Kz4_Xck
Old 10-14-2013, 08:16 PM
  #1588  
RichardGee
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EXCELLENT maiden!
Congratulations!
Old 10-15-2013, 03:57 AM
  #1589  
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Super Job, Chris!
Loved the stall and slow flying. Great demo of speed range of Gee Bee.
Outstanding!
Jules
Old 10-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #1590  
kittykatjaz
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Brilliant, well done to you Steve.

Great video Chris, was nice to see you slow the Gee Bee right down.
Old 10-15-2013, 07:20 PM
  #1591  
crownline
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This is my test flight on Sunday, keep the laughter to a minimum ( especially when i try to land it . )

Steve


http://youtu.be/QCe8g81L0l0
Old 10-15-2013, 08:02 PM
  #1592  
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Far out those radials sound great

Nothing to be embarrassed about in the video Steve, it looks like a great flight and you did get it back down in a perfect Gee Bee manner first and second flight.

Got to say your Gee Bee looks like it has way more dihedral than mine. How many degrees do you have dialed in?

Jaz
Old 10-15-2013, 08:32 PM
  #1593  
crownline
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Jaz
Your right i have more than i should, it's about 6-1/4 Deg. i need to adjust the flying wires. i though i read on this thread it should be 4-1/2 to 5 is that correct ?

Steve
Old 10-16-2013, 05:27 AM
  #1594  
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Originally Posted by RichardGee
While we wait for Steve to maiden, I thought I would share my latest Gee Bee mods... Although this beast flies like a scalded monkey with a 3W157CS, I thought it would be nice to reduce the level of "frantic" by eliminating weight, noise, and cubic inches to find perhaps a better balance between performance and handling, while also reducing the 'pucker factor'
Having flown this airplane with a DA100 and seeing plenty of others flown with similar engines, I believe a DA120 might be the perfect combination of weight and power, BUT removing nearly 4 pounds of engine from the nose requires major surgery, lest I am forced to simply add it back to the tail...
To that end, I am modifying the elevator into a pull/pull configuraton, joining both halves via CF rod, and hinging them per the full scale Gee Bee. ALL servos will be mounted far forward utilizing pull/pull cables for both rudder and elevator.




Fine work Gee...another slight change which is what I did is to move the rudder servo tray forward. Quit a bit of change when you consider the wooden tray, servo, and linkage total weight.
Old 10-16-2013, 07:32 PM
  #1595  
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Great job Steve!
Yep not easy to be sure but you did a fine job. Its more intimidating than it seems when you actually fly it I think. Im looking forward to the next time out for sure.

My only comment on the landing approach procedure is that your coming in too high and then dropping onto the field. This increases the airspeed unnecessarily. If you make a long shallow descending turn on final with a low power setting you will be lined up and low ready to touch down. I walked over to the end of the runway to give myself a better perspective on the runway and to try and touch down near me so there would be the rest of the runway to slow down. Ive seen you land like this with your larger IMAC models so I know you can do it!

Now we can fly at CAMS! Lol carrier landing with a GEE BEE anyone? Hahaha
Old 10-16-2013, 07:49 PM
  #1596  
Chris Nicastro
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Has anyone done a wing spar tube modification on this model?
Im not a fan of the flying wires.
Old 10-16-2013, 08:02 PM
  #1597  
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Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro
Great job Steve!
Yep not easy to be sure but you did a fine job. Its more intimidating than it seems when you actually fly it I think. Im looking forward to the next time out for sure.

My only comment on the landing approach procedure is that your coming in too high and then dropping onto the field. This increases the airspeed unnecessarily. If you make a long shallow descending turn on final with a low power setting you will be lined up and low ready to touch down. I walked over to the end of the runway to give myself a better perspective on the runway and to try and touch down near me so there would be the rest of the runway to slow down. Ive seen you land like this with your larger IMAC models so I know you can do it!

Now we can fly at CAMS! Lol carrier landing with a GEE BEE anyone? Hahaha
Chris
i agree with you a lower approach would be better, with the motor having very little time on it ( 10 min ) i wanted to stay a litter higher i case it quit on me. besides IMAC = 7years Gee Bee = 2 flights
ill be the first one sitting in my chair having a beer watching YOU do carrier landings. LOL

Steve
Old 10-20-2013, 07:27 AM
  #1598  
RichardGee
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Wing tube/spar mod: I am not aware of anyone installing a wing spar in an effort to eliminate the critical nature of the flying wires... Although I agree that the flying wires seem to be the "weak link" in this aircraft, they really ARE NOT if built properly. As a matter of fact, the primary reason this Gee Bee lands so well is BECAUSE of the flying wires being so integral to the structural integrity of the landing gear.
Although the gear mounting prevents movement fore and aft, it is the flying wires that prevent gear 'wobble' side to side. Without them, this Gee Bee would "turtle" a*s over tea kettle exactly like every other Gee Bee with scale gear.
Also, the wing is so thin, it would require multiple spars to provide the level of structural integrity provided by the flying wires.

Dihedral: The original had 4.5 degrees, but it is believed that 5.5 degrees makes the aircraft a bit more stable. It has also been asserted that both wings must have identical amounts of dihedral. While both of these claims seem logical, I cannot prove the efficacy of either one. It DOES make sense to assure equal wing dihedral, but detecting a handling difference between 4.5 and 5.5 may be an exercise in splitting hairs...

I continue to progress (slowly) on my DA120/lightening mods. Here you can see how the elevators will be deflected via pull/pull. Also, the new "equipment tray" with the elevator servo at the top and rudder servo at the bottom. Receiver is on the opposite side of the tray. Tray is made of balsa/ply 'sandwich' with CF reinforcement and is located directly over the CG. Speaking of which, my CG will be moved slightly aft (76.5mm) from its 3W157 position of 73-74mm. First, 76.5mm IS 18% which is exactly where the full scale is located. Second, with the reduction in weight, the aircraft will respond positively to the slightly aft CG, providing better elevator control at lower speeds. That's my 'theory' and I'm stickin' to it!!


Old 10-20-2013, 09:33 PM
  #1599  
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Get rid of that goofy spring tail wheel and make a yoke out of grafhite, that would get rid of some weight!
Old 10-22-2013, 01:52 PM
  #1600  
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Richard
Thanks for the info on the Dihedral, I need to reduce it a bit on mine, after checking it again it is at 7Deg on both sides . not sure how much difference it makes but will do it anyway.

Steve

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