Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
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Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Hi guys! I am building a Great planes extra 330s 27%.It is my 1st Giant!I will use a CRRC Pro GF50i, futaba R617 receiver, and 7 Spectrum A6010 digital servos.
So, what I need help with, is what kind of receiver battery should I use to be able to fly 3D...hover and staff...
On my 60 size YAK54 Iuse 6VNiMH 2300mAh. Will this battery be ok? I don't want to risk any power loss due to lack of power....
Please help...
Spectrum A6010 Technical details
Control: | digital |
Ball bearings: | 2 |
Gears: | Metall/Kunststoff |
Length approx: | 41 mm |
Width approx: | 20 mm |
Height approx: | 39 mm |
Weight approx: | 49 g |
Input voltage: | 4,8-6,0 Volt |
Torque 4,8 V approx: | 62 Ncm |
Speed 4,8 V approx: | 0,19 Sek/60° |
Torque 6 V approx: | 72 Ncm |
Speed 6 V approx: | 0,14 Sek/60° |
So, what I need help with, is what kind of receiver battery should I use to be able to fly 3D...hover and staff...
On my 60 size YAK54 Iuse 6VNiMH 2300mAh. Will this battery be ok? I don't want to risk any power loss due to lack of power....
Please help...
#2
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
ORIGINAL: kemp83
...On my 60 size YAK54 I use 6V NiMH 2300mAh. Will this battery be ok? I don't want to risk any power loss due to lack of power....
Please help...
...On my 60 size YAK54 I use 6V NiMH 2300mAh. Will this battery be ok? I don't want to risk any power loss due to lack of power....
Please help...
Keep in mind that the number may be too high (heavy battery) if you fly a lot, so find a good balance.
Rafael
#3
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
I'll reply to your post
any battery you can use .. if your useing Nimh packs i'd just use two and battery share
I'll tell you what I personaly use on 50cc airframe
I use ONE duralite A123 2500MAH pack .. and a tech aero IEBC for the motors inigtion .. and i use a good switch smart fly .. or a badger woverine
and I've put this pack to the test I've had a servo bind up on me and catch on fire in the airframe .. it was drawing so much current It melted the servo lead to the bear metal .. I'm talking alot of current i mean alot of current ...
and i was able to land the airframe and save it.. .. if i was flying a NIMAH i'd probably lost a airframe
just a FYI your aiframe really isn't a 3d airframe .. it smore a sport plane granted you can 3D it .. but just be use to the airframe and be ready for it to fall out . thats all i am saying
#4
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Each digital servo can instantaneously draw 2000mA of power at full stall.
In normal flight servo draw is dependant upon several factors including...
- Movement resistance - Binding
- Control Surface area - Larger sufaces produce more leverage on the linkages equating to more draw
- Geometry - Are you set up for maximum MECHANICAL advantage? Few "recommended" setups are.
- Amount of deflection - More current is used as the surfaces move away from center
You are likely to see between 200mAh to 1200mA draw per servo in actual flight.
If you want to play it completely safe take 2000mA and multiply that by the number of servos = 14,000mA or 14 amps!
In lieu of that you can take a median figure... say 1200mA x 7 servos = 8400mA or 8.4 amps.
So in your shoes I would be providing a minimum of 8.4 amps of power to the electronics...
You could hook up a pair of LiFe's (aka A123's ) with high draw characteristics...
I've been using a lot of these lately because the price is right...
[link=http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23817__Turnigy_nano_tech_2000mAh_2S1P_20_40C_LiF ePo4_Transmitter_Pack.html]Click me![/link]
I hook two to the RX via a Y cable...
No power distribution box nor regulator is required.
This produces... 2000mA x 2 x 20c = 80 amps maximum draw which is far more than my 50cc and up planes will ever need.
The batteries are far lighter than NiMH, LiIon and NiCD packs and can be recharged at 5C, though I only use 2C charge rates.
A pair of these packs and you can fly all weekend with one charge.... recharge and you can leave the plane sitting ( off ) for weeks without having to recharge it again before another flight as there is almost no self discharge.
In normal flight servo draw is dependant upon several factors including...
- Movement resistance - Binding
- Control Surface area - Larger sufaces produce more leverage on the linkages equating to more draw
- Geometry - Are you set up for maximum MECHANICAL advantage? Few "recommended" setups are.
- Amount of deflection - More current is used as the surfaces move away from center
You are likely to see between 200mAh to 1200mA draw per servo in actual flight.
If you want to play it completely safe take 2000mA and multiply that by the number of servos = 14,000mA or 14 amps!
In lieu of that you can take a median figure... say 1200mA x 7 servos = 8400mA or 8.4 amps.
So in your shoes I would be providing a minimum of 8.4 amps of power to the electronics...
You could hook up a pair of LiFe's (aka A123's ) with high draw characteristics...
I've been using a lot of these lately because the price is right...
[link=http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23817__Turnigy_nano_tech_2000mAh_2S1P_20_40C_LiF ePo4_Transmitter_Pack.html]Click me![/link]
I hook two to the RX via a Y cable...
No power distribution box nor regulator is required.
This produces... 2000mA x 2 x 20c = 80 amps maximum draw which is far more than my 50cc and up planes will ever need.
The batteries are far lighter than NiMH, LiIon and NiCD packs and can be recharged at 5C, though I only use 2C charge rates.
A pair of these packs and you can fly all weekend with one charge.... recharge and you can leave the plane sitting ( off ) for weeks without having to recharge it again before another flight as there is almost no self discharge.
#5
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Your 2600 mah battery would prob have enough mah capacity to fly your plane for 4 or 5 flights before getting low on charge HOWEVER it most likely does not have a high enough C rating to provide more than 7 or 8 amps EVEN fully charged.
Conclusion, it could brown out your rx at any time so a single 6 volt nimh is not suited for your application.
And your servos are a bit weak for a model this size at 7 kg torque, I would not fly a model this size with them, they will lack the power required for good performance.
Conclusion, it could brown out your rx at any time so a single 6 volt nimh is not suited for your application.
And your servos are a bit weak for a model this size at 7 kg torque, I would not fly a model this size with them, they will lack the power required for good performance.
#7
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
2500 mah nimhs or life? Huge difference.
Maybe you have read my post wrong. I have not knocked the capacity, but I do dowbt the C rating of the nimh.
Maybe you have read my post wrong. I have not knocked the capacity, but I do dowbt the C rating of the nimh.
#8
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Interesting.
By point of reference, my 50cc planes with a single 2500mah pack and 5 x 7955's flying 3D, with the same pack split to the ignition, uses 300 to 350mah per flight (6 servos, plus igntion, flying hard 3D)
Interesting.
By point of reference, my 50cc planes with a single 2500mah pack and 5 x 7955's flying 3D, with the same pack split to the ignition, uses 300 to 350mah per flight (6 servos, plus igntion, flying hard 3D)
I'm measure about 350mAh per flight on our Giant Scale club trainers ( 7 digital servos ) but instantaneous draw WILL top 1200mA easily especially during hard flying.
As Raydar says, many people are risking brownouts by not properly sizing their packs.
That said NiCD and NiMH packs are fairly good at sustaining high momentary draw rates over their rating, while other technologies are not, e.g. LiPo.
The minimum capacity NiMH 4.8v battery I've would use in a plane this size is over 3000mAh.... and higher at 6v.
#9
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
I agree with the servos being minimal. this is really a 40cc plane, but I had a DA50 in mine
I had it set up with.
4-hs5625 ail./ele.
1-hs5955 rud.
1- standard BB servo for throttle
2-2000mah NiMh pack, shared on a Fromeco Wolverine switch (wired 2 in 2 out)
1-1600 pack for the Ign.
R6008HS futaba RX,,
Never had any issues with brown outs or anything else,, used about the same what BarracudaHockey says for juice while flying pretty hard all the time.
I had it set up with.
4-hs5625 ail./ele.
1-hs5955 rud.
1- standard BB servo for throttle
2-2000mah NiMh pack, shared on a Fromeco Wolverine switch (wired 2 in 2 out)
1-1600 pack for the Ign.
R6008HS futaba RX,,
Never had any issues with brown outs or anything else,, used about the same what BarracudaHockey says for juice while flying pretty hard all the time.
#10
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
There seems to be a huge missconception that higher mah pack is going to produce more amps than a lower mah pack, thats true if comparing two identical batterys of the same make and chemistry.
However if you compare a 2600 mah mimh 6v pack to a 1100 a123/life 2s 6.6v genuine cell pack I am pretty confident the little life/a123 battery will have a higher C rating than the nimh by far.
The mah is the way you rate the amount of power a battery can store, the C rating dictates how fast you can get it in or out of the battery without damaging /overloading the battery. Completely different things.
Im pretty confident that barracuda and most others do not fly there 50cc planes on a single 2600 mah AA cell nimh.
However if you compare a 2600 mah mimh 6v pack to a 1100 a123/life 2s 6.6v genuine cell pack I am pretty confident the little life/a123 battery will have a higher C rating than the nimh by far.
The mah is the way you rate the amount of power a battery can store, the C rating dictates how fast you can get it in or out of the battery without damaging /overloading the battery. Completely different things.
Im pretty confident that barracuda and most others do not fly there 50cc planes on a single 2600 mah AA cell nimh.
#12
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
what it boils down to is you can use nimh packs .. but really.. stop buying them and start making your shift to new tech ... A123 .. is probably the most friendly and none complex ..
and back to the orgnial topic.. those servos are kinda sucky as mentioned above 100 once for a 50cc is flyable .. but i wouldn't dare go over 1 " arm
and that machin your going to need long arms to get any 3D going on .. and hell its really a sport plane at best ..
if you could .. you sould really sit down at the computer and do some reaserch .. IMO
#13
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
ORIGINAL: zacharyR
what it boils down to is you can use nimh packs .. but really.. stop buying them and start making your shift to new tech ... A123 .. is probably the most friendly and none complex ..
what it boils down to is you can use nimh packs .. but really.. stop buying them and start making your shift to new tech ... A123 .. is probably the most friendly and none complex ..
Personally I have seen to many false charges in nimh batterys and AA cells really are not that powerful so I would not run them even in a 30cc even doubled up. I at least would want a couple sub C nimhs for a 27%
Sooo what it boils down to is A123 is a great upgrade and now would be a good time to do it.
Of course thats just my opinion.
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Ok guys! Thank you very much!
So,
(1) It seems that a pair of LiFe (A123.....is it the same?) batteries is the best choice. What are the most preferrable characteristics for these batteries(cells,mAh,C)? I suppose something like 2 cells, 2000mAh, 25-30C? Where do you get them from?
(2) How shall I connnect them to the receiver-servos? Will I need a regulator like with Lipos, a special switch or just a heavy duty switch and a Y cable? I know that powerbox sensor is a good choice that choose each time one of the batteries and regulates the voltage at the same time, but is a little expensive... Please give me specific products if possible and keep in mind that simplicity and low price are prefferable...
(3) Concerning the servos I know they are minimal but it was a low budget choice and hopefully they will not cause me any failure due to lack of torque. Reduced performance is acceptable for this low budget project!
#15
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Click on the link of my first post above.
All you need is a Y cable to hook them up, or if you wish you can put them on separate switches for added safety.
NO powerbox or regulator is needed with the 2S LiFe packs, and if anything using these adds unneeded complexity and failure points.
As far as your servos, just make sure you set up the arms and linkages for maximum mechanical advantage and you'll do fine.
All you need is a Y cable to hook them up, or if you wish you can put them on separate switches for added safety.
NO powerbox or regulator is needed with the 2S LiFe packs, and if anything using these adds unneeded complexity and failure points.
As far as your servos, just make sure you set up the arms and linkages for maximum mechanical advantage and you'll do fine.
#16
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Hi opjose!
What do you mean by "...put them on separate switches for added safety"? Two regular switches that will end to two different channels on the receiver? This is a parallel connection right? What will happen if one of the two batteries fails? Will it cause for example a shortage or a discharge to the other one?
And "set up the arms and linkages for maximum mechanical advantage" means the closest to the receiver pole arm and the further to the control surface one? Will I achive 3D rates this way?
Thanks!
#17
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
These days I use JR Powersafe receiver's, a single soft switch and two 2500 ma lipos to keep weight down on all my stuff.
Bob
Bob
#19
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
That plane would be a rocket ship with the DLE55! Kemp, if you haven't bought the CRRC yet, you might want to reconsider this choice. I am wondering how this plane would do on a EME 35 if you kept the weight down. Once you try the LIfe chemistry battery, (and the correct charger), you'll never go back to Nimh, that's for sure.
#20
RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
ORIGINAL: kemp83
Hi opjose!
What do you mean by "...put them on separate switches for added safety"? Two regular switches that will end to two different channels on the receiver?
Hi opjose!
What do you mean by "...put them on separate switches for added safety"? Two regular switches that will end to two different channels on the receiver?
I don't bother with this myself. I just use a good high quality switch, and hook both batteries to a "Y" cable, then the "Y" cable to the switch.
This is cheaper and IMHO better than many other solutions... e.g. the Powersafe's are really nice, but given the price, for a 50cc? eh no thanks.
Other electronic switches do the same thing and default to power on, during failure.... but that is another matter.
ORIGINAL: kemp83
This is a parallel connection right? What will happen if one of the two batteries fails? Will it cause for example a shortage or a discharge to the other one?
This is a parallel connection right? What will happen if one of the two batteries fails? Will it cause for example a shortage or a discharge to the other one?
Failure is never instant, particularly with LiFe's. It happens over time, almost never at once. Just be diligent with your batteries...
You can charge both via one receptacle in the switch which is what I do normally for a "flying the next day" charge.
I also once a season remove the packs from the plane and do a balance charge & cycle with load, to determine their health & capacity. This should be part of your seasonal review... and should go hand in hand with changing out your gas fuel tubing every year or so...
BTW: I did all of this with four of our Giant club trainers and we have gone months in storage without re-charging the packs after their last use, then we pull out the planes for training and just fly them. The packs I indicated above hold their charge very well.
ORIGINAL: kemp83
And "set up the arms and linkages for maximum mechanical advantage" means the closest to the receiver pole arm and the further to the control surface one? Will I achieve 3D rates this way?
And "set up the arms and linkages for maximum mechanical advantage" means the closest to the receiver pole arm and the further to the control surface one? Will I achieve 3D rates this way?
Yes that is what I mean.
Set up your transmitter for 150% movement and then your linkages for maximum mechanical advantage.
You may find that this MAY give you slightly less than 3D deflections, though you knew that was a risk with the servos you selected.... but at least this way there is little chance of blow-back. The servos will be able to hold the surfaces effectively at deflection. Your control will also be smoother and more "fine grained" by doing so.
Consider flying the plane this way and as you get better with it, you can change the servos to higher torque ones later... starting with the rudder which typically needs the strongest servo(s).
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RE: Help for 1st Giant 3D plane-receiver battery
Hey guys, would two of the following batteries connected in parallel to the receiver (in to different channels) be ok?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23825__Turnigy_nano_tech_2100mAh_2S1P_20_40C_LiF ePo4_Receiver_Pack.htmlWhat wiil happen if one of them fails? Will the other one still power the receiver?
What about using just this one alone on a common switch? Would it be ok?
Are turnigy batteries from hobbyking any good?
Thanks