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Super Flying King twin-engined version

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Old 12-17-2003, 01:43 AM
  #1
regmason
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Default Super Flying King twin-engined version

To any interested:
I started building Bruce Tharp's Super Flying King twin-engined version. The kit quality is unbelievable. The ribs fit the spars perfectly without any adjustment to the notches. The parts stay where you place them. I have finished basic wing framing and am working on sheeting.
I am leaning toward using two G-38s for power. I usually cover with Monokote, but am considering Stits or Solartex. I am going to use Robart's Fowler hinges on the flaps. I have shot about 170 construction pics up to this point and 20 pages of construction notes. I am going to put it all on a CD when I have finished.

Reg Mason

A month's progress:
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Reg..

I am just about to begin building my super king. I sure would like a copy of the cd you are making of the construction. Will it be available? Thanks..
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Old 12-18-2003, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Bob,
My intention was to give the CD to Bruce Tharp as thanks for creating a twin-engined version of the Super Flying King. I will make it available to anyone interested. Of course the question is when. I am the world's slowest builder and it will come after the SFK is complete. It takes time to organize lots of pictures and combine them with text. I have made arrangements with our club's webmaster to use space on our site to publish pictures of the project as I build. Our club website is www.baxterfield.com, but as yet have not had the time to provide any pictures of this project. I will post a thread here when they are available. Thanks for your interest.

Reg Mason
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:29 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version


I have contacted Bruce Tharp about maybe turning this twin-engined Super Flying King into a tri-motor. He didn't try to talk me out of it. My plan is to use three G26s instead of two G38s. This will transfer some of the vibration from the wing to the nose of the fuselage. I will have a total of about 7.2 hp to haul a 35 to 45 pound airplane. The addition of the Robart fowler flap hinges is going to require some ingenuity to modify the current flap and wing TE, but should be worth it to make the plane a little more unique. I think some Tiano resin molded dummy radial in front to the engine with some custom 1930s style ring cowls would look interesting. Not quite a Ford Tri-motor, but similar. I will post some pictures of the flap setup and engine mods when they occur. Buy a Bruce Tharp kit. You will never be sorry you did!

Reg Mason

Sheeted outer wing panel:
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:28 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Reg,
I just ordered mine today! Talked with Bruce on the phone, (really nice guy) he answered my questions honestly and to the point.
I too would be interested in your tips. complete or incomplete. I'm adding a few additional bits (British for parts not included in original design) to mine and am looking forward to getting started. I'll be sure to share my experiences with anyone here.



Michael

Why did I leave this fine hobby? Women!
Why did I return to this fine hobby? Women!

Chicks dig it! [8D]
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Michael,
I got an email from Bruce last night. He gave me your email address. I will be contacting you later about exchanging information. So far I have shot 130 photos of just the wing alone. I am on page 30 of my notes. My engineering background forces me to over document everything. Mitoor in Yuba City was interested in my installation of the wing joiners, but I had to beg off as it would have been necessary to stop building and type up 11 pages of notes with diagrams.
I had never heard the term "additional bits". Monty Python taught me the term "naughty bits", but that is "something completely different". Are you British? My favorite Brit is R.J. Mitchell, of Spitfire design fame, and not because the "R" stands for Reginald.
I hope R/Cers give Bruce Tharp a try. He is the nicest person of I have ever talked to or corresponded with in this hobby. His SFK kit is of unbelievable quality in parts and fit. He is taking the time to supply me with a wing kit for the 215cc radial test plane that I want to build. In addition to the parts, he is giving me valuable design tips. He used to work for Sig and designed the Four Star 120 and others.
I have backed off the tri-motor idea. I want to put a video camera in the nose. It is the one I bought from Super Circuits 4 years ago. I was waiting for the right platform to use and I think the SFK may be it. I am committed to installing fowler flaps since I now own $200 worth of Robart Fowler hinges (8 at $25 each!).[X(]
I just finished the tail feathers. I decided to entirely sheet the tail. I added lightening holes to the elevators and saved an ounce. Bruce says it won't matter much as the Twin will be tail heavy anyway. A pair of G38s are on order. For a change of pace I am going to finish the fuselage before working on finishing the center wing section. Included a pic of stab just to show everyone that I am working on it.

Reg Mason
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

I've been thinking about building that plane for a while now--looks cool. I wonder how well a 4.2 single would fly it?
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Former,
The prototype plane on Bruce Tharp's website, www.btemodels.com, uses a 3W75i. I would think a 4.2 would work just fine. I know you won't be disappointed in the kit. Finished the tail feathers this evening. I am getting 35 degrees of deflection on the rudder. I wonder if it would be a good idea to double bevel to get as much deflection as possible, in case of a single engine failure, to counteract the yaw. If you want to read an interesting article on twins, go to "www.rcwarbirds.com" and click on Twinman (Mr. Lumpkin). Couple of more pics. By the way, lightening holes in the rudder may have been a waste of time. I saved 1/10 th of an ounce.[]

Reg Mason
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

The rudder line kind of reminds me of the "Maule" airplanes. I just e-mailed bruce and asked him about engines/exhaust systems. What kind of servos are you gonna use, and are you going with a gyro in case of engine failure? I think I like this plane so much because no one around here has one.
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

I'll tell you what I asked Bruce, I was trying to get away from the pipe on the outside, but may-in the end-go that way. Doesn't look like I can mount that 4.2 90 degrees and use a pitts smoke muff because ot the fuse side.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Reg,
Yes I can understand the documentation process. I have quite a few years of building under my belt so I don't anticipate any problems. "Additional bits" : Anything not normally found in your everyday RC Aircraft. On-board starting, Nav, Strobe and landing lights, 2 onboard cameras(one full Camcorder & OSD video downlink), 2 RS-232 DataRadios, GPS, 2axis gyro, temp and rpm sensors. Did I forget anything? OOh and by the way, I'm not British, I have met a few Brit girls, nudge nudge , know what I mean? know what I mean? My favorite American is Chuck Yeager he's got some bragging rights very few could top. My favorite brit is "AngryKid" visit http://www.angrykid.com
Why all the bits? I once was told if you love something, set it free. If it loves you back, it will return. I want to test that theory.
Reg, I'm worried about you.... 215cc ? ? ? My god man, your not thinking of getting in it are you?
I opted for the Twin add-on to his kit also, but plan on using the engine pods as electronics bay's
Power? Fuji Bt-86, WITH, ( gotta love this part) Onboard starter. I refuse to put my hands anywhere near that prop. They are expensive. Thinking of going with 2 g-38's also but worried about vibration in the cameras. I'm very interested in a link or kick in the right direction for the "Robart Fowler hinges" you are using. They will make a great addition to the kit. In both appearance and functionality. I considered the stall tips, and haven't completely ruled them out.
My construction details will be posted on a website, I'll drop in the url when it's up and running.


Michael

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He drives a Big Brown Truck. . . . Have you seen him?
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:20 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Don't worry Mike. The 215cc radial I bought is intended for my Hostetler 40% Gee Bee Model Z. The wing kit Bruce is going to provide to me is for another 215cc engined airplane (see threads on "please help me find this plane" for pics). After perusing your list, your twin is going to blow mine away in number of "additional bits". By the way, Bruce mentioned you were going to add a picopilot (whazat?). He also said you were going to use the plane to scout tile here in the Midwest. Again I am at a loss. Please let me know what that is. I may want to "scout tile here in the Southwest". As for the other goodies, I am a retired electrical engineer, who used to design hardware and write software for embedded microprocessor based systems. I would love to collaborate on all the telemetry bits.

Reg Mason

PS: I bought the STOL tips. The Germans make some nice on-board starters for Fuji engines, but seem to be rather heavy. But a plane that is going to weigh 35 - 45 pounds, who's counting.
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:24 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

FormerCA,
Twinman's article on twin-engined planes on the RC Warbirds website makes a good case for using gyros to save your plane in case an engine fails. Michael listed a 2-axis gyro in his list of "additional bits". Maybe we should caucus about this.

Reg
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:54 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Ahhh The Additional Bits!

Technology continues to amaze me. I was a Microsoft Network Specialist for nearly 20 years. 2 years ago I gave it up to get back to working with my hands.(welding & Machining) I hooked up with a close friend who owns a welding shop. It happens that his business is primarily AG related. So I couldn't help but absorb the crop lingo. Started learning of the trials and tribulations of farmers. I learned drainage is an issue that they are concerned of yearly. To the point of paying some big bucks to have a company come in and probe for the tile. And then possibly even more money repairing or replacing field tile that is faulty. One can actually SEE the tile layout clearly if the pic's are taken at the right time in the spring. They also look for Weed infestation throughout the field and effects of fertilizers applied. Yea Farming is getting complicated. And truthfully Precision farming is just now taking a firmer hold as the requirement to increase yield and crop viability. So this year I plan on launching a project with 4 local farmers. Plotting camera missions at appropriate times throughout the farming season, from turning the ground for the first time in the spring to final rounds at harvest. One of the test plots is considered an Organic farm. IE: no chemicals whatsoever are use. NONE. This farmer is VERY interested. When asked of what value would video and pics be to a serious farmer, He simply smiled and said, Your onto something big here.
While the current market of Bits is rather small there are a few people making similar systems. But I think a select few of those are doing it successfully and reliably.

Ok here are some links for review, I have downloaded manuals of some listed just holler if you would like me to forward them on.

http://www.u-nav.com PicoPilot

http://www.cyber-flyer.com Has an excelent OSD

http://www.informatics.org/france/aerial.html Example of aerial scouting.

http://www.carvec.co.uk Helicopters too!
http://pdv.cs.tu-berlin.de/MARVIN/

http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com Video Downlinks

http://www.burtoninc.com My personal web-page

Enjoy,
Michael

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Just before I loose consciousness.
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Yea, even tho those engines(on the twin version) are pretty close together, the rudder is a little on the small side for a twin, imo. A gyro would buy you a little time to get things sorted out in the event of an engine out. Considering the outlay to get this project in the air-a gyro would be cheap insurance. Defensive flying too wouldn't hurt.

I'm just gonna do the single SFK-haven't decided on the engine yet.

Q? Are you guys using std. size hightorque servos, or giants?
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Old 01-23-2004, 04:52 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Former,
I agree with you 100%. Gyros would be cheap insurance. After reading Twinman's article on his experiments with gyros, I think I am convinced. As for servos, Bruce Tharp recommends 7 servos with a minimum of 100 oz-in. He used Hitec 700BB at 133 oz-in. Since I am a JR man, I will probably use 2721 on the ailerons, flaps and elevators. I plan on using the new 8611 digital on the rudder, if I can ever get my hands on one. I read an old rule of thumb somewhere about figuring 1 oz-in. per square inch of control surface. Does anyone out there know if this holds true? Any other recommendations would be welcome.

Reg Mason
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Just got through reading builders update #6-in there a guy used a Brison 4.2 and said it flew great at 38 lbs--mystery solved.
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Old 01-30-2004, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Hey Fobus--hows it goin?-you fly that thing yet?
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Former,
Slow, but steady. At 132 inch wingspan, it is not quite the same as building two 66 inch Extras. I finally settled on a twin, instead of the tri-motor idea. My two Zenoah G38s arrived yesterday. Would like to get some test stand break-in and adjustments before putting them on the plane. The fuse sides are built and will go together today. I have worked out a game plan for the fowler flaps and will post pictures when complete. It is a crisp 17 degrees this morning, so I think I will skip a trip to the flying field today. By the way, in Super Flying King update #7, that was my wing joiner C-channel picture with the extra and over-sized screws. I finally have been published! I am still undecided about what to cover the plane with. Any ideas about which fabric to use, eg. Stits, Solartex, Koverall, would be appreciated. I don't want to use Monokote this time.

Reg Mason
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

You dont need to waste your time with break in stands on gas motors. Bolt them on, taxi a bit and take off.
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Old 01-31-2004, 05:27 AM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

JohnVH,
You are right about not needing the break-in. I have never broken-in any of my Zenoahs in the past. I own (2) G26s, (2)G38s, (2)G45s, (5)G62s and (2) GT80s. Several of these have had a tendency to not want to idle properly until they have run a while. And all of these have at one time or another quit in mid-flight for some unknown reason. Break-in was probably not the correct term. I would rather call it "confidence testing". After watching several videos of twin-engined planes spiraling in due to an engine quitting and since I am going to have 6 months and around $4000 invested in the plane, I think a little "warm fuzzy" time on a test stand is called for. My personal opinion, of course. I can see you are big gas engine fan, as I am.

Reg Mason
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:52 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Since its cold outside anyway--might as well Stits it with a Decathlon type scheme, that would be cool.
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Hi Fobus,
I've been working on one of these with a good friend in our club since September and it has proved to be one fun model to build. I decided to go with the Hitec 705MG for all the control surfaces except the rudder - Hitec 5735. The 705's put our 201 oz/in. of torque at 6.0 volts which I thought was overkill until we covered the flaps and ailerons. Then I wondered if it was enough. The flaps and ailerons look perfectly in proportion when installed on the wing but when they are separate, they have about the area of an entire .40 size sport model wing! These are huge surfaces. I will attach a picture of the STOL tips being covered which took some time with a heat gun but actually, in the end look beautiful. The STOL tips are making the end wing panels more unweildy but they look so cool. We are using Ultracote which is not the cheapest plastic but it goes on the easiest and has maximum shrinkage, a necessity to get the tips covered. I am putting a 3W-75i in it and setting it up as close to the instruction manual as possible.
Bob
Are you going to put a bomb bay in yours?
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

One more pic of our progress.
Bob
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: Super Flying King twin-engined version

Bob,
I hadn't considered a bomb bay, but with all that fuselage space, there is plenty of room for one. Are you adding one for candy drops? Since mine is a twin, I am putting a down link video camera in the nose. I like your color scheme. Choosing the right color and pattern is always a hard part of any project for me. I have limited red-green color vision, so sometimes my planes come out looking a little odd. How long did it take you to carve and sand the STOL tips? Mine are still big chunks of balsa. I have been working on my fowler flap installation. Before applying the technique to the actual wing, I have built a single-bay mock up of the wing and flap. Currently, each hinge requires 11 pieces of wood. This includes pockets on the wing and flap to insure proper alignment after covering. Overkill is my curse.
Thanks for the input on servos. Keep the pics coming!

Reg Mason
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