sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Oh yes I got out on Sunday.......again 65 and no wind. The smoke just hung. But my dumb butt forgot the camera.


Now get this..........I was the only one out on Channel 17 and no one else within 3 either way. I noticed that a couple of times on my first flight my plane would act like it wanted to pull into a right turn, or stick in a right turn. I have failsafe set at hold/idle. Engine never went into idle, so I figured it was a trim issue.

Last flight of the day I decided on a few touch n go's........first one was fine......on the final I was in a shallow dive/ left turn to the runway heading. The plane felt sluggish, almost (but not quite) non responsive. I got it on the ground and basically ran it off the side of the runway as I was checking all the control surfaces for movement.........no big deal or so I thought


Was thinking about another flight but decided on an engine range check.........I couldn't get 5 ft from the plane without split elevators/ailerons but my plane wasn't going into failsafe......more like a weak battery.

So off with the engine and ignition........same response. Checked battery voltage.......alll where at 7.9V on load.

[side note] This day saw over 5 planes go in, I feel that I have escaped.....thus angering the gods 2 fold since I was a big bird......4 more planes went in after that......most were pilot error, dead batts etc.


I use the Dean's base load antenna.....thought maybe that was the culprit. messed with it, got to about 10ft away this time. So I pulled the antenna out of the plane and checked the soder joints......they were good. I pulled the wire out of the soder joint anyways incase it was a cold joint. With just 6inches of antenna I was able to get about 30-50 ft away but I go by the 100ft at least rule. So I figured antenna problem. Went home to replace Deans antenna with the wire antenna. At home I rechecked everything in my garage.......I was able to get 100ft away with just he 4inch RX antenna, the deans, the deans with out base load etc...... But to be safe I replaced the antenna with wire and ran it in the fuse away from all wiring.


Went to the field on Monday.......out of smoke fluid so I didn't bring the camera. Also the wind was whipping 25+.........a buddy of mine was out there with his angell Shadow pattern.........on turn on he experinced much the same thing I did.....slow movement, unresponsiveness etc. He was on channel 56. NO one else even close. We also had a freq scanner and it was clear. after about 10mins of him fighting it......it suddenly started working again. He mused around and finally decided to fly. No problems on 2 flights........I then range checked mine......started the engine and range checked again.......then flew a crappy flight and landing due to the wind. But no radio problems.


I'm not 100% sure what is going on. I really don't think my antenna went bad anymore. I'm sending it in to Dean's to look at to be safe but after someone else was having problems its just weird. I've been flying at the field for over 2 months with no problems and this other guy has been flying for there with that plane for at least a year.



I'd like some ideas/comments on this one?

mikerc

My Feedback: (11)

Sweet,
Have you figured anything out with your radio? I haven't heard of such a thing.

I have all the servo programmed and working perfectly. We are getting some more snow. SUPER!!!!! Ever since I sold my snowmobile I hate snow and cold weather. Anyway, here are some updated pictures of my Edge. It just looks sweet sitting there.

http://www.mikerc.com/Edge_540_1_21_05/index.htm

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

well I changed out the Antenna to wire and the next day it flew fine.


That was a week ago. Today I went flying and it was fine on the first flight.......though I did notice quite a bit of smoke oil in the inside of the fuse due to the opening in the front where the cowl fits on. (I'll be sealing it up tonight).


Then I had the same problem before the second flight..................after numeours battery checks, regulator checks, and even going to a R770S rx I was still having no range (less than 5ft.)..........Last thing I checked. I swapped to a new freq......channel 33. It was fine. So I'm assuming I have a cracked crystal. I have extras at home so tomorrow I will check that out........

Of course when I got home, the RX and old crystal worked again...............confusing at the least.

Regardless I'm swittching crystals to a new one and I've sealed up the fuse so that oil won't get on my compenants. I did notice that oil was pooling on my gear plate, so maybe some got in the rx or something.


And I'm going to get some pics of the smoke......and maybe a video.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Guys I need a little Cowl help. this is my 35% bird getting down to the final assembly stages. As you can see from the pics I still need to finish the Cowl. I have never dealt with a two piece cowl before and the plans for the plane say nothing about how to finish it. So I really need a little primer on how to finish mounting it from some of you.

Currently I have three mounting screws on each side of the firewall. I have cut out the cutouts for air intake and motor, etc. What I need help with is how to install the two halves. It looks like you mount the bottom piece to the firewall and then screw the top piece to the bottom piece. Is this correct? It also looks like it needs a lot of trimming/truing were the two halves go together for a good fit. Anyway any help is appreciated. a closeup pic of the cowl side would be great.

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

This is how I did mine...........

There should be a former for the bottom half of the cowl. (cowl ring?). You glue these onto the cowl itself. Once dry you mount to the plane with 3 or 4 screws. Its a shame your planes already coverd as you may need to do some sanding, but you got what you got. Your motor has to be mounted so that you can be sure that the cowl distance is good....unless you don't mind a huge gap from spinner to cowl.


I used 4-40 screws and blind nuts to hold the bottom cowl on. I also added another peice of wood for the bottom of the cowl so that it wasn't just flapping around. All my screws were in the sides and lower corner of the cowl.


Now for the harder part........the top.

First decide how many screws you want to hold the cowl peices together.......then glue in evenly spaced plywood plates and put blindnuts in them. Be sure to put plates in the front of the cowl by the spinner opening.

Next you have to take the top peice and match it to the bottom. Along with the plates. You may also have to do some sanding so that the fit from top to bottom is flush. Don't worry if you have a little gap. Once you get that done, you can drill your holes for the screws to the blind nuts. I put some extra plywood plates in the top of my cowl to hold the top flush, but the instuctions don't call for it.

Now you can work on the gaps. I used everkoat fiber glass compound for this. Take some wax paper and place it on the bottom of the cowl folded over the lip. Then place the top cowl on and screw in. Now you add the fiberglass and get it smooth as you can all the way around. Once thats done and dry........sand so its smooth. Then unscrew and lift off. Nothing should stick to the bottom cowl due to the wax paper.



Now mount your motor ( again) and see what your gap looks like. On mine I had to add some balsa at the cowl ring to get the cowl to look even against the spinner. Then I added finish resin to the balsa, sanded again and used some fiberglass to clean up and rough spots. But now my cowl has less than 1/8 gap at the spinner and it looks good on the plane.


This process takes a whole lot longer than it sounds. And requires test fitting, installing/reinstallng engine etc....It helps if someone else can help you line everything up. Now your ready to prime the inside and outside. If you have fuel dots I would cut the holes for them now and mount the plates for em, but then take out the fuel dots so you don' t paint em. ONce you prime it, you need to look for pinholes and flaws......then fill and reprime.....till its perfect. Then your ready to paint.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Jeeesh, thanks. As you can see from the pic I am a little farther along then I indicated. this much of the job was done by someone else not available. The wood braces at the base of the cowl are installed and the wood pieces along the side of the bottom piece are in place but not drilled.

I think I got most of what you are saying; or at least I will after I read it a couple of times. But I am confused about the nose ring part. My cowl seems to have extra fiberglass around the engine whole and the air intakes. there is also a substantial lip there on the bottom half, not quit so much on the top as you can see. I'm not sure if it came that way or was modified by the person that started the model.

"Be sure to put plates in the front of the cowl by the spinner opening." and "On mine I had to add some balsa at the cowl ring to get the cowl to look even against the spinner." This is the part I don't understand?

mikerc

My Feedback: (11)

The way Aerotech did it was. Instead of blind nuts they used plastic inserts. Four 6-32 screws hold the bottom cowl ring on. (2 on each side) The plastic inserts (4-40) were put in the bottom cowl to hold the top to it. I put a small amount of epoxy in each one to get a tight fit. Worked great. There are blocks on the top to hold the top cowl in place but I am not going to put screws in. It is very solid like this.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Boy, this is starting to look like a major issue for me. MikeRC, I am putting a DA100 in mine and just starting the install. It appears that you needed to cut out the support wood that runs front to back on lower cowl half?

Also I do not understand this statement: "The plastic inserts (4-40) were put in the bottom cowl to hold the top to it." Do you mean they mounted some sort of plastic thread insert in the wood brace to screw into? I also notice that you have a screw in each side of the cowl ring behind spinner. How did you reinforce this area to hold the screws.

Also as you can see from my pics I have a section of cowl ring on the top half that butts against the bottom ring so I'm not sure how your top section was put together.

I think I am going to have to a call Aerotech to get this part figured out. Maybe I will get it better when I actually start the mounting process. I am just now finishing up the wings and elevator. engine and cowl is next.

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

I'll try to clear some things up on my end.

I noticed that on your top cowl yours is using the dowls in the hatch that will connect into the cowl. I chose to not do this. Instead I flush mounted my hatch to the cowl, and used 3 screws in the top of the cowl to hold my cowl in place and I have side screws in the hatch at the front to hold it in place.

Next you may have to sand some of the cowl off behind the cowl rings. I did on mine. I set my distance from the engine/spinner to the cowl and glued my blocks in at the point. Instead of extending the distance the motor sits off the motor box. That way the cowl and cowl rings were flush with each other and once mounted it was the 1/8 gap from cowl to spinner.

Ok for the next part......

If you look on Mikes 2nd pic you'll see a small screw by the spinner.....this is the block I was talking about adding. Holds the cowl togehter tight at the spinner point.

as for the air intakes and spinner hole........you may have to make the larger or just sand them to make them look even. I sanded my cowl openings back a little to get more airflow in and so that it would be easier to mount some baffles. (I made the lip go in just slightly so that once I glued in the baffles it would almost flush mount itself)


Now for the hard to understand part. when you put your cowl together there is a hole for the motor shaft. The normal Gap is 1/8 in from that to the backplate of the spinner. My cowl only had about 2 degrees of thrust built in. How did I know you ask? Well I built my motor box with 3 degrees built in. So when I lined up the cowl with the spinner backplate once it was all mounted, one side was 1/8 and the other side of the spinner was like 1 inch.(can't remember the exact amount). So I glued balsa onto the front of the cowl hole and made it match the 1/8 side. Then I sanded everything so that it didn't look like I added anything. Once painted you can't even tell I added any wood and the cowl looks fine. This whole last part is all cosmetic, and you may not need to do it.


As for mounting the cowl.......its not easy and it takes awhile. Just rember to fit and refit everything before you decide to drill holes.

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Well bad news today................


1st flight........new rx crystal. Fuse sealed up so smoke wouldn't enter.

First I ran a range check with everything on, no engine running........fine.
Engine running range check........fine

Flew a 8 min flight without using smoke.......fine.......came into land.......fine.



2nd flight (hour later)

Range checked engine running........fine

Started my flight with smoke going(forgot the camera though)........then settled in for some IMAC training. Man I suck at holding a straight line, but at least I know what mistakes I'm making and I'm usually correcting late or holding the correction to long. ONly ran about 1/4 smoke........

at the 15min point I decided to land. Started my approach.
Got to the perch fine. Then once I was headed inbound.........my airplane went into fail safe. Headed right for the pits. I was about 100ft up and already at idle and pretty much straight and level. I called out for everyone to move and moved my control sticks feverishly....no response, then all of sudden it came back.

I pointed it back toward the runway and got it about 8 ft from the ground when I think it went into failsafe agian(it was so close to landing I can't be sure). Left wingtip fell and hit the ground.....prop struck the ground......wheels hit next....they got ripped out and the plane settled on its belly after skidding a few feet. Nobody was hurt and so far this is my damage list......

--gear plate ripped out cleanly
--both wheel pants tore up pretty bad, but fixable
--Wood prop destroyed
--Tail wheel spring broke
--small dent bottom of elevator just after leading edge.
--both left and right bottom of wingtip have monokote rash (easy fix)
--left muffer pipefront of exit is bent slightly in
--right muffler cracked at the weld joint from case to pipe and has been flattened in the front of the pipe.
--bottom of cowl is scrathed a little (not bad though) and has one small crack where the pipe moved

No other damage.

With the plane on the ground I did another range check and once again, I have only about 20ft of response before lock out or one of the elevators/ailerons respond slowly or not at all compared to the other one. Also volt checked.....main battery was 7.84.....backup was 7.96 (lithium) No smoke fluid present in the fuselage either. So there goes that theory. So even after the new crystal the problems persist.......and since I did the range checks and things work fine.........my only course of action is to fly.



So hears what I've tried.

New crystal
Different rx from a 955S to a 770S
Different radio with my module
went from Deans base load antenna back to normal antenna
Tried unplugging everything except elevators/and or ailerons and using a seperate battery with no switch. Thus bypassing all electronics on the plane.


Everything works fine by the time I drive 20mins home. So I can't do any home testing.

Can't remember if I tried someone else's module (on diff freq) in my radio, or if they used their radio with the diff freq but, it went from not working to working when that happened.


My next step is I'm sending both the rx and tx into service. Maybe they'll find something............but what I'm thinking is no they won't because its an intermittent problem. Oh.......10x radio that is damn near brand new along with the rx

splais

My Feedback: (25)

I really appreciate the help from a couple of you. I'm out here in the wilderness with no help. But I got to tell you that I have come to the conclusion that a twp piece cowl is just about the worst idea anybody ever came up with. Now I got to admit that tonight will be the first time I actually started mounting. But the quality of this cowl is horrible. the two halves do not match up well at all. I'm going to have to spend hours just trying to get the two halves to mate well. I am seriously thinking about looking for an aftermarket one piece cowl or just fiberglassing this whole thing together and figuring out how to mount it.

Am I just having a bad day or did all of you have a problem with these two cowl halves. Mounting this cowl is going to be the most trouble and labor intensive part of the entire project. There, I ranted and feel much better.

mikerc

My Feedback: (11)

Sweet,
Sorry to hear about your plane. I really hope you get this figured out. Nothing sucks more than not knowing. It could be so many things. RX, Servos, Ect. I would start by changing your throttle servo. I have had bad luck with them. Doesn't matter the brand. Just a thought.

Splais,
No, I didn't remove the extra wood on the sides of the cowl. They just put a piece for each screw. Instead of blind nuts mine has plastic threaded inserts. It is very solid.

Harrier3D

Hello,

I had an Ignition issue that I couldnt got 10 feet without an issue. New ignition problem soleved for me.

Thanks

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

I thought servo also and engine problems........

but I'm leaning more toward the tx or rx. Since I unplugged everything from the reciever except the ailerons and then just the elevators and it still did it. I even put a different battery directly into the rx to get away from the switches and wires, and regulators. I moved the rx around a little also. Still no luck. Can't imagine I have bad servos in both an aileron and elevator.......The worst part is that its intermittent and not at the same point in space or distance from the plane etc. Plus half the time it acts like a dying battery where control surfaces move uneven...sometimes it locks out into fail safe. Only thing I can think of is the radio or the rx......and since I already tried a new rx and that didn't change anything I'm leaning toward transmitter or module. I thought maybe my smoke system was doing it......but no fluid in the fuse the last 2 flights and the smoke system was powered for both flights.....first one no problems, second one had problems on landing after 15min flight????? its all confusing.


I'm going to try and get home early from work today to send in my radio and rx to service.......I'll be out from flying my Edge for about 2 weeks anyways.

As for the next step here is what I think.......let me know if this is a good idea.

-radio/rx sent for checkup. If all good I will still use a brand new rx and crystal set just in case.
-do my normal engine off/on range check.......
-fly the plane (after letting all people at the field that I may have problems) no smoke
-let plane sit for about 1hr.....Like I have previously
-range check once again......fly with limited smoke my full 15min flight.....note any weird incidents in flight....bring in to land
-If it fails again then immediatly change modules to a different freq from someone elses radio. see if this fixs it.

any other suggestions as to what I can do?


Splais......I prefer the 2 piece cowl. You can take half off and get to parts easier, and its easier to mount around the engine. But I do know alot of people that fiberglass it togheter......then they simply install the screws in the fuse backwards....so the blind nuts are in the cowl instead of the fuse. No matter what you decide you are going to have to do some sanding and some fiberglass work to get it perfect looking. Call me....I Pm'd my phone #'s to you. I can send some pics of my finished cowl also. We'll get you through this part. It really is one of the hardest parts of the plane. Mostly because its time consuming.

Aerotech

Hello,


I have read the cowl install issue threads in here. I can try to help via phone and if Im correct this was a built plane bought from a person in MI? I will offer this to you also from our company. If you can retrun the cowl that is in whatever condition. I will replace it free with a primed cowl from our ARC's. ALL you need to do is cover the shipping back to us. I hope this option helps you and we look forward to serving you if we can.

Regards


John

www.aerotech-rcmodels.com

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Aerotech,

You are correct. The plane was built to ARC condition by Rick H. Your offer is more than generous. The cowl is still in next to stock condition, except the cowl ring has been installed. I believe my frustration is with the design and lack of instructions more than any particular defect; but I will give you a call and we can discuss how I can finish this thing. This entire cowl mounting issue has brought my project to a screeching halt. The plane is beautiful as you can see above, and I don't want to screw it up with a bad cowl install.

Steve

Velox Pilot

Hello,

I must say that is an offer that stands out in my opinion. I can bet no other company would do this. Im glad Im a customer of theirs.

Later

Ted

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Me too.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

OK, the final update. I talked to John at Aerotech and Sweetpea. John is willing to stand by his offer which I appreciate. But I have found that the "problem" is not a QA issue with the cowl, plus there are several reasons his offer may not be the best solution since he has never seen the plane. For any number of personal tastes in bulding his cowl may not fit any better than mine.

I talked to Sweetpea; very informative and helpful. I have determined that the problem is that the upper cowl ring was glued on about 1/8" to far back, thus shoving the front of the cowl an 1/8" to far forward (sticks out an 1/8" more than the bottom half. I have also determined that the mounting to the fuselage is very clean and sturdy. So after much thinking, looking and talking I have determined that the best thing I can do other than getting a new cowl is the following: I'm going to make half of an 1/8" cowl nose ring to epoxy to the the bottom cowl nose ring half to make it match with the top half. at the outside edge of the air intakes on each side I can grind down the upper lip to match the lower. You will never know it has been done after everything is painted.

The pic is of the gap at the outer edge, the same gap exists at the nose ring.

Appreciate the help. Everything is back on track and the delay to fix this problem should only be a week.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

PS to the above: I had an epiphany last night as I was falling asleep. Dumb me. All I need to do is make a 1/8" plate to go over the lower cowl ring at the back, moving that half of the cowl forward an 1/8" and lining everything up. I checked it this morning and it worked perfectly. So all is well in mudville again. Love it when a plan comes together.

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

So do you plan for the extra wood to be flush with the cowl at the fuse point? Or are you going to leave the wood slightly lower and fill with fiberglass to make up the gap?




My radio/rx all my crystals and the deans antenna went out today for JR to test. We'll see what happens.

DaveMiller

Hello,

I will say that John also has been a great help during questions with the kits I have bought and he is always willing to help with anything and take the time to walk you through it. Gotta like that kind of service.


Thanks

Dave Miller

splais

My Feedback: (25)

I put the wood flush with cowl side because it turned out to only need a 1/16" piece of ply to bring it forward enough. I will fill and sand out any small gaps and because it is on the bottom half it should not be visiable anyway. I'm well please with the fit at the firewall. It's very tight and clean. The casting around the front of the cowl leaves a lot to be desired and will require a bit of work as we talked about. But I do have to admit that I am changing my mind about two piece cowls. They are really labor intensive to do right, but the mounting is very solid. I hope I get the two halves mated as well as the cowl mounts to the firewall.

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Good deal.

Tonite I'm giving over my paint and bottom cowl to a guy to touch up the scratches on the bottom. He is also repairing my wheel pants.


I'll call on Friday to see if they have news on my radio gear

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Great news.........a guy from the local club was able to reweld my pipes and fix the dents. He even polished the pipes to match my gear and spinner! And he did it over nite. I picked em up tonite!

Saturday I'm going to glue the gear plate back in, and fix the wings/tailwheel. So all that will be left is getting the wheelpants/cowl back and finding out about my radio