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First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

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First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Old 10-25-2004, 11:34 AM
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Darrinc
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Default First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Finally I got it finished and out for a few flights.

My set up:
Da100 on stock mufflers
(1) Hitec 5945 on each elevator
(1) Hitec 5945 per aileron
(1) Hitec 5735 on rudder
(1) Li-Ion 2200mAh for RX
(1) 2 Cell Li-Poly 700mAh for Ign
(0) regulators
Futaba Cap9 PCM
Total Weight=23.1lbs

Let just start by saying that it flies like it is full of helium, I love to fly slow and this planes rewards me with the ability to fly around the sky at idle. I flew three 15min flights on one 32oz tank of fuel since max speed turns out to be about 1/3 throttle! The combination of low weight and high drag leads to some interesting capabilities. The downlines are slower than typical slow cruise speed, with a little throttle managment you can definately fly in a constant speed crawl mode.
I am still a little nose heavy and the plane really grooves, I was instantly comfortable with it. Knife edge to left has some roll coupling, right had a small amount of pitch to the canopy, but this will change with CG adjustments. Rolls are perfectly axial. I need a little down thrust for my up lines.

I haven't tried to many 3D manuvers yet since it's new, but tumbles are outragous with that huge tail. The tail is extremely powerful and touchy on 3D rates when hovering. (thats with -100% expo) Flat spins are not very flat, but then I'm nose heavy. As far as harriers go, it does level harriers, no need to pitch up the nose, just pull the throttle back to a low idle and steer around with your rudder. (even down wind!)

This is the nices landing plane that I have ever had. Nice and slow with complete control authority, (not that you need to make inputs) just chop the throttle and wait to flair just as it touches.

Definately a keeper! I could not be more impressed!
Old 10-25-2004, 12:26 PM
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DKjens
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Wow Darrin, a composite "freak"[&:] (I mean that in a good way) impressed with a Composite-ARF. I think at 23 lbs and change, your Yak IS filled with helium. Do you feel you have enough confidence in the Li-Ion batteries that you would run only one 4400mAh in a 40% plane?

How long are you staying in Ohio, and how is your 40% Extra project coming?

DKjens
Old 10-25-2004, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

1 5945 per ail!?! for that size of plane!?! I wouldnt run less than two. I dont trust 5945's a lot anyway and trusting them without redundancy on a plane that big is pusing it... Not to mention that you are way under recommended torque specs for a plane of that size.
Old 10-25-2004, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

I agree that 1 HITEC 5945 on the aileron is just asking for it. 1 8611 would be just fine in my opinion but I wish you luck with your new plane.

Leardriver
Old 10-25-2004, 02:01 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

DarrinC

Don't want to burst your bubble.. but... I pretty much fly nothing but hitecs and would not put only one 5745 in a wing that size, especially if I was doing any 3D or high-rate flying. I have two 5735 servos (faster but less power than the 5745) in each wing on my CA 31%. Not because I am worried about failures... but because I beat the snot out of my airframes.

If you want to run only one servo per wing - the 8611 is just what the doctor ordered. If it was not such a hassle to convert my 2-servo wing into a 1-servo wing, I would put one 8611 in to save the weight. Unless you are flying pattern only and using low throws.. I would heed the warnings and put 8611s on the ailerons...

If you fly 3D at all... you are not just asking, but begging for problems with only one 5945. They are great servos, but they will get loaded up pretty good at high rates.. especially during high speed snaps and blenders.


I never fly one battery either... been there .. done that... BOOM.

On a 2.6 you are best off with (2) 2200's on RX and one 2200 on IGN. 700 Mah will leave you deadstick eventually unless you are charging between flights...

Also - I think this is an error.. but I assume you are using (2) 6V regulators and not (0). Pumping 7.4 (and often over 8) + volts into that receiver will cook it sooner, rather than later.. and you know its not going to happen on the ground...

Not trying to nitpick.. I just hate seeing someone lose a plane to weak setups.. we all learn once.. so hopefully those of us who have learned can save those who haven't yet...

Best of luck on the new YAK .. they are really nice aren't they!
DP
Old 10-25-2004, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

A weak setup? I have been running this same system (except for the Li-Poly, they where not invented yet) for 5 years in various 35% planes. I have added extra aileron servo's in anything heavier than 25lbs unless the ailerons are extremly stiff like the Composite ARF. The main point is if you build the plane very light then you you can get away with less. Less mass, less rotational force, less power to change directions.

The system in my plane has been well proven and works perfectly. I do not run regulators. I do not charge the 700mAh Li-Poly pak between flights. It works for a entire day of flying. (I have to thank Frank Noll for that tip he gave me years ago)

DKJens, I would run a 4cell Li-Ion 4400 mah if you are ganging servo's. I'm here in Ohio permanatly, I'm back teaching electrical engineering classes. The 42% ended up being more like 46%, but presently I'm burnt out on sanding.

And Yes, it does fly like it's filled with helium.
Old 10-25-2004, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Im calling bullcrap on the fly all day on 700mah unless all day means 1 flight. My 3W 70 uses up a 2000mah in 4 flights (5 if I push it). You have twice the plugs that I have. I would definately have to see it to believe it. The 1 battery setup I think will be fine but you had better use regulators. Ill tell you why, you are giving those 5945 one and a half more volts than they want. Yep a single 5945 will work when you cram more voltage in it. I would worry more about the servos than the reciever, but the reciever will have some problems too. Thats just what I think.
Old 10-25-2004, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

ORIGINAL: 3D ONdaEDGE

Im calling bullcrap on the fly all day on 700mah unless all day means 1 flight. My 3W 70 uses up a 2000mah in 4 flights (5 if I push it). You have twice the plugs that I have. I would definately have to see it to believe it. The 1 battery setup I think will be fine but you had better use regulators. Ill tell you why, you are giving those 5945 one and a half more volts than they want. Yep a single 5945 will work when you cram more voltage in it. I would worry more about the servos than the reciever, but the reciever will have some problems too. Thats just what I think.

I flew (3) 18min flights yesterday. No charging in between, sounds like your ignition has a problem. I ran a 500mAh on my 3W75.

I was hoping to have some questions on the flying qualities, not to argue over setups. I've had 5 years with no problems with this system and I've been running the same 5945's and receiver since they came out new, so I don't think I'll change anything.

Here are some pics.


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Old 10-25-2004, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Darrin, congratulations on your new plane. I saw Jens fly his and it looked awesome. Do you think you will get good flat spins when you move the CG back? What receiver are you using? Did you go with stock mufflers? Did you mix out the little bits of coupling?
Good luck with your teaching!

Joe
Old 10-25-2004, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Darrin - Sorry to criticize... I guess I started it.... I still don't believe it but you don't need to justify your setups to anyone if they work well for you. 5 years on that setup.... ? We all are paranoid and so we double up on everything just to be safer... share more of your experiences..! Ever lose one to the setup.... ?

So we have to ask ourselves... what's worse - loading up every plane we build with extra stuff (and weight) and never losing a plane... or losing a plane once in a rare while but not have the extra weight... .... either way you pay... so why not fly lighter and just fly....

Guys... he may be on to something..!

I've never seen a 2.6M weigh 23 pounds... my 31% weighs 21 and I have $300 worth of carbon fiber in it.. still floats.. I can see why you say your plane is like its filled with Helium....

DP
Old 10-25-2004, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Congrats Derrin on the flights, i can't wait to get mine!!, As for the ignition battery's it depends on what throttle setting you are using, if Derrin is not flying much over a third throttle, the motor won't be pulling the same power as it would at full throttle, the system works guys just because it isn't "conventional" or the same as everyone else is using doesn't mean it's bad, and as Derrin poointed out, the test planes and everyone else's are coming out at 26-28 pounds, his is only 23, and he isn't flying at full throttle, so the bigger servo's aren't needed. Instead of bashing his set-up, maybe look closer and think about it, you might be surprised at what you will find. I am going to try th exact same set-up in mine, but i will be using a ZDZ 80 on a JMB can, so i might even get out a little under Derrin's weight.
Old 10-26-2004, 12:02 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

The only time I have lost a plane due to the electronics is when I had regulators. All the other planes ere due to my stupid thumbs. My friends Troy-Built 260 is close to the same weight and a identical setup except he's using Ni-Cads because he needs the tail weight. As far as the ignition battery, I use the same pack in my 29lbs AirWild Edge which is at over half throttle on a 3W106 with no problems. (man that plane is huge! Does anyone want to buy it? It's to big for me!)

Maybe it's just my luck, but I've found that the KISS method works best for me.

BTW, Watching the Yak fly downwind at LOW idle without loseing altitude is hilarious. I like a plane that makes me laugh!!! As far as flatting out, with the Yak I can to this strange double pinwheel into a perfectly flat, flatspin that just has to be seen. I really can't describe it, but it sure is fun! I'm just grinning thinking about flying it!
Old 10-26-2004, 01:40 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Please try and get us some video footage Derrin, would love to see that manouveur[8D]
Old 10-26-2004, 06:19 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Darrinc , sorry to bug you about the set up but this is the same as
I am doing in my 2.3 composite aircraft only on a zdz 80.
I was wondering why the use of two different types of batteries ?
li Ion @ 2200mAh for RX and then the li Po @ 700mAh for the IGN .
Why not make them both Li Po or has it something to do with
voltage and duration.
For what its worth this is the cleanest setup I have seen , well done.

Stuart D

P.S. if your working to hard you either dont know what your doing or you,ve got the wrong job
Old 10-26-2004, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Stuart D,

It's no rocket science, it what I had. I would like to try some bigger Li-Polys for the RX, but they are all being used in my 3D foamies. We got some new high discharge 1200 3 cell packs that are amazing! They give us 500 more rpms and fly for about 20mins a charge. Thas not bad considering the motors are pulling 30 amps!

Thanks for the complement!
Old 10-26-2004, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

ORIGINAL: Darrinc

The only time I have lost a plane due to the electronics is when I had regulators. All the other planes ere due to my stupid thumbs. My friends Troy-Built 260 is close to the same weight and a identical setup except he's using Ni-Cads because he needs the tail weight. As far as the ignition battery, I use the same pack in my 29lbs AirWild Edge which is at over half throttle on a 3W106 with no problems. (man that plane is huge! Does anyone want to buy it? It's to big for me!)

Maybe it's just my luck, but I've found that the KISS method works best for me.

BTW, Watching the Yak fly downwind at LOW idle without loseing altitude is hilarious. I like a plane that makes me laugh!!! As far as flatting out, with the Yak I can to this strange double pinwheel into a perfectly flat, flatspin that just has to be seen. I really can't describe it, but it sure is fun! I'm just grinning thinking about flying it!

I had the Airwild Edge, sold it to get the YAK...
Old 10-26-2004, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

You are running your RX pack without a regulator.
You don't have any issues with overvoltage?
The pack is around 7.4 fully charged right?
Old 10-26-2004, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

6 Volt nicd packs run about 7 volts fully charged and no one runs regulators with them.

P.S., My Yak came in Today, i have it mocked up sitting on my pool table, i can't wait to get the servo's for it. Derrin you said you could sell me some of that C/F that you used for your rudder servo mount, what is th eeasiest way to get you the money? and also if it would be possible could you PM me your phone no.? i have some other questions about your set-up. Thanks in advance
Bill
Old 10-26-2004, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

I think most people are coming out at 26-28lbs using tuned cans. Mine came out at 24.5lbs with a 3W 106 and stock mufflers, 3 x 2200mah Li-ions, 8 x 5945's plus throttle servo, kavan wheels and cf spinner. I really didn't go out of my way to save weight, but I also didn't add many unneeded extras. It flies incredible light at this weight and with the cg pulled back it will get flat in a flat spin. I have 2oz in the tail and will probably add another oz next time I am at the field. I like a neutral flying airplane. Also, I would like to warn anyone out there, DO NOT USE THE NELSON SERVO WHEELS!!! You can not get them to tighten fully around the output gear on the hitec servos. The first couple of flights on my Yak I could not get it to stay trimmed in level flight. After some investigation I discovered that the elevators were slipping. The clamp screws on the nelson wheels was fully tightened and I could move my elevators up and down several degrees and actually feel the wheels slipping on both elevators. They have been replaced with the airwild aluminum servo wheels and I have not had any problems.
Old 10-26-2004, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

I wonder how Darrin got 1.4 pounds lighter than you Spindoc? Maybe this plane could come in even lighter with a ZDZ80 or BME110.

Joe
Old 10-26-2004, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

Wow spindoc, I could not even imagine my 106 in the Yak since the DA pull's it like crazy!

Second day of flying and all I can say is WOW. I am a far better designer than a pilot and I am doing beautiful slow rolls and some rollers too. Flat turns are simple and fun because of the lack of coupling. That tail is really powerful! The ailerons are too, even with only one servo!!! Once again, I must say that this is the nicest landing plane I have ever had!!!

I need to add about two washers of down thrust in it, then I will work on the CG. I have the ailerons matched now and I have a pelimenary amount of about 1 degree of down elevator mixed with rudder, but that will change with the Thrust and CG changes. Seems like it might need a little more right thrust too. I can't wait to get it all trimmed out!!! I have to thank the friends that I fly with for the help on the trimming, they are competion fliers and have a great intuative feel for how to make a plane fly true.

It's just a hunch, but I think a ZDZ80 would be the perfect engine for the combo that I have because it looks like I will have to take out the carbon stab tube and put the stock one back in and install a heavy Haig style tailwheel to get the CG back so that it flattens out in spins. I will problably have to move the battery pretty far back too. Hey, you can't get them all right!
Old 10-27-2004, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

If you look at Darrin's setup, he uses several servos less than me about 3 which adds up to around 7-8oz with hardware. He also uses a lighter battery setup and cf tubes which account for some of the weight. After those alterations it is just a difference of a few ounces. I had my yak custom airbrushed which accounts for the remaining 8oz....Jonas
Old 10-27-2004, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

This is a perfectly timed thread, i am using the zdz 80 on a jmb can, and all C/F tubes and tail wheel, kavan wheels, What i am wondering, and i know what most of you will think, but i already have 5645's that were in my 23 pound lanier edge, so i am thinking i will just put them in the Yak, same weight of plane, slower flying, but more surface area, we will see what happens.
Old 10-27-2004, 11:48 PM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

ORIGINAL: WILDMAN 420

This is a perfectly timed thread, i am using the zdz 80 on a jmb can, and all C/F tubes and tail wheel, kavan wheels, What i am wondering, and i know what most of you will think, but i already have 5645's that were in my 23 pound lanier edge, so i am thinking i will just put them in the Yak, same weight of plane, slower flying, but more surface area, we will see what happens.
I would use at least one 5945 per aileron since they are so huge.
Old 10-28-2004, 05:07 AM
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Default RE: First flight Comp-Arf 2.6 Yak!

I know 6V Nicads are OK with out a regulator but he is using LiPo's without a regulator on his RX, or that is what is stated in the first message.
ORIGINAL: WILDMAN 420

6 Volt nicd packs run about 7 volts fully charged and no one runs regulators with them.

P.S., My Yak came in Today, i have it mocked up sitting on my pool table, i can't wait to get the servo's for it. Derrin you said you could sell me some of that C/F that you used for your rudder servo mount, what is th eeasiest way to get you the money? and also if it would be possible could you PM me your phone no.? i have some other questions about your set-up. Thanks in advance
Bill

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