ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
11-21-2004, 11:07 AM
#29
RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
nicely done.
you might consider changing that muffler support strap to go from the muffler to the mounting lug .
I am just finishing up a very similar setup for a friend.
you might consider changing that muffler support strap to go from the muffler to the mounting lug .
I am just finishing up a very similar setup for a friend.
11-21-2004, 01:11 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Sweeeeeet!!!! Thanks for the pics Beachbum, she is gorgeous and the ZDZ install does indeed look like it will be a snap. I like your canopy, did you tint with Rit dye or did you paint using that car body stuff? I also noticed some extra holes in the motordome right behind the carburetor, are those for extra intake area or for zip tying equioment to the dome? My 2.3 should arrive the day after tomorrow, I am puuuuuuumped. Will get some pics on here as soon as I get her up and running.
Thanks again,
John
Thanks again,
John
11-21-2004, 01:55 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Thanks for the pictures. That looks really easy. You say that you might have to move the rec. battery forward? Wow, I would think that with the 80 it would come out quite nose heavy. How does it sound with the pitts? I have become spoiled with my Da50/1060 if not just for the smoothness and sound. Did you put an access hole on the top of the cowl for needle adjustments? What is your AUW? You did a fine job on your 2.3 and I would be lucky to have a plane as nice as yours.
Joe
Joe
11-21-2004, 02:05 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
I think the ZDZ is going to really catch on as the engine of choice for the 2.3, especially at the higher altitudes. I am curious as well about why she came out somewhat tailheavy with that big ole' 80 on the nose? I have a suspicion that the 80 with Pitts doesn't weigh a whole lot more than the Da50R with a pipe. Anybody have any data on the weights,,,,i.e. engine, ignition module, pipe coupler and pipe or muffler, prop, spinner etc. for each ...... the complete package?
If not, I will try to get some accurate numbers for the ZDZ as mine goes together.
jmw
If not, I will try to get some accurate numbers for the ZDZ as mine goes together.
jmw
11-21-2004, 06:28 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Heres a torque roll shot from today. I got a few good flights on it today. It flys excellent. Harriers are so stable, locks in to torque rolls, snaps, spins, flat spins are all better than any other plane ive flown. I moved the battery foward. It now sits about 3 inces back from where the motor dome and fuse meet. Its balanced now just a tad tail heavy, but flys great where its at. The extra holes on top of the motor dome are a mistake. I had the ign. there, but relized too late that the cowl wont fit over, so i had to move the ign. to the side of the motor dome. I switched to a NX 24/10 at about 7400 on the ground. It flys much better with this prop. The engine sounds nice and throty with the pitts. It is also very quiet. I think it is the bisson, but not sure. Another guy had another plane with the 80/ pitts and his had a different brand muffler and was way, way louder. I dont have an accurate scale, but it flyes very very light. On one of the pics, it shows the hole i put for carb adjustments. Thanks for the advise Dick, i will do that as the bracket came off today.
11-21-2004, 07:38 PM
#38
RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
The one I am putting together today has a J&A muffler (I think that is what this one is - it is about 3 years since I got it .)
anyway -the diameter is larger so I had to make two reliefs in the bottom front corners of the motor dome -
It also has a mounting boss for support on the muffler .
The 24" prop is fine on the 80- let it rev-it will run up with no problems .
As for tail heavy -- My friend's 2.3 with a 100 NG ZDZ was also tail heavy - really -waaay tail teavy.
Most of these ARFS are tail heavy - the mfgrs just gloss over it .
- We went out today with a friend - who has a Wild Hare 35% with a ZDZ100NG- and it is over an inch aft on balance with everything shifted as far as possible
it weighs 28 lbs and flys nicely - but as hard core 3D bird - forget it
I have seen the sea level pics of Joe whatsis and a 100 on his WH-but all the lip balm about sparklin 3D stuff at this altitude and any 100 cc is pure fantasy.
This plane will get a 160 - pronto.
I will make pictures tomorrow of the 80 on the dome for the 2.3 - using the larger muffler .
anyway -the diameter is larger so I had to make two reliefs in the bottom front corners of the motor dome -
It also has a mounting boss for support on the muffler .
The 24" prop is fine on the 80- let it rev-it will run up with no problems .
As for tail heavy -- My friend's 2.3 with a 100 NG ZDZ was also tail heavy - really -waaay tail teavy.
Most of these ARFS are tail heavy - the mfgrs just gloss over it .
- We went out today with a friend - who has a Wild Hare 35% with a ZDZ100NG- and it is over an inch aft on balance with everything shifted as far as possible
it weighs 28 lbs and flys nicely - but as hard core 3D bird - forget it
I have seen the sea level pics of Joe whatsis and a 100 on his WH-but all the lip balm about sparklin 3D stuff at this altitude and any 100 cc is pure fantasy.
This plane will get a 160 - pronto.
I will make pictures tomorrow of the 80 on the dome for the 2.3 - using the larger muffler .
11-22-2004, 08:27 AM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Beachbum, thanks for the flight shots, that blue/red scheme looks really gorgeous! One question on your radio installation. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like your throttle servo is mighty close to the engine and now you have moved the battery pack up there too? Do you have the minimum separation distance of 12 inches between ignition and receiver components. Just curious. Great job on the Extra!
jmw
jmw
11-22-2004, 11:27 AM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Hey john,
I would say i have 11" or 12" between the ign. and my rec. batt. I was a little concerned about that myself so i ran a full tank if gas at different throttle settings to check for any interference, and there was none. When you get your manual, it shows instillation of a da 50 and they have the rec. battery on the motordome and its only about 3 inches from the ign.
Ryan
I would say i have 11" or 12" between the ign. and my rec. batt. I was a little concerned about that myself so i ran a full tank if gas at different throttle settings to check for any interference, and there was none. When you get your manual, it shows instillation of a da 50 and they have the rec. battery on the motordome and its only about 3 inches from the ign.
Ryan
11-22-2004, 06:47 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Flutter is best prevented with a sound mechanical setup. Geometrically correct, slop-free linkages are your best defence against flutter. If your setup is crap, sealing the hinge line is not going to stop flutter.
11-22-2004, 08:55 PM
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
ben, on the comp-arf planes they dont use traditional hinging. The wings have a "skin" hinge on the top of the aileron so its permenently sealed. The elevators and rudder have a 3mm? metel rod that slides through the length of the surface and connects the two. Maybe someone else can help describe it, once you see it youll understand but its hard to put into words.
As for the zdz80, i think it is the best combo. I still had to put the batterys way foward, to get it slightly tail heavy. Im at a pretty low altitude, and i would not call it overpoward by any means. To me it seems just right.
On the setup, i didnt use the stock steel clevises, i used dubro hd quik links and carbon over 4-40 rods. To me it feels like a much more solid setup. Also high quality servos make a big difference.
Ryan
As for the zdz80, i think it is the best combo. I still had to put the batterys way foward, to get it slightly tail heavy. Im at a pretty low altitude, and i would not call it overpoward by any means. To me it seems just right.
On the setup, i didnt use the stock steel clevises, i used dubro hd quik links and carbon over 4-40 rods. To me it feels like a much more solid setup. Also high quality servos make a big difference.
Ryan
11-22-2004, 09:05 PM
#45
RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
sealing hinge lines does NOT prevent flutter - the two things are exclusive.
However - the seal does tend to mechanically dampen the occilation.
If you properly balance the surfaces -and few do this - flutter is all but impossible to make happen.
However - the seal does tend to mechanically dampen the occilation.
If you properly balance the surfaces -and few do this - flutter is all but impossible to make happen.
11-23-2004, 10:39 AM
#46
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
ORIGINAL: Beach Bum
ben, on the comp-arf planes they dont use traditional hinging. The wings have a "skin" hinge on the top of the aileron so its permenently sealed. The elevators and rudder have a 3mm? metel rod that slides through the length of the surface and connects the two. Maybe someone else can help describe it, once you see it youll understand but its hard to put into words.
As for the zdz80, i think it is the best combo. I still had to put the batterys way foward, to get it slightly tail heavy. Im at a pretty low altitude, and i would not call it overpoward by any means. To me it seems just right.
On the setup, i didnt use the stock steel clevises, i used dubro hd quik links and carbon over 4-40 rods. To me it feels like a much more solid setup. Also high quality servos make a big difference.
Ryan
ben, on the comp-arf planes they dont use traditional hinging. The wings have a "skin" hinge on the top of the aileron so its permenently sealed. The elevators and rudder have a 3mm? metel rod that slides through the length of the surface and connects the two. Maybe someone else can help describe it, once you see it youll understand but its hard to put into words.
As for the zdz80, i think it is the best combo. I still had to put the batterys way foward, to get it slightly tail heavy. Im at a pretty low altitude, and i would not call it overpoward by any means. To me it seems just right.
On the setup, i didnt use the stock steel clevises, i used dubro hd quik links and carbon over 4-40 rods. To me it feels like a much more solid setup. Also high quality servos make a big difference.
Ryan
BeachBum, still tail heavy with the ZDZ 80??? You might try TroyBuilt, I hear they have a carbon fiber stab tube that saves about 3-4 ounces. Could make a difference!
Dick Hanson, how are you guys balancing these things with the little DA50 out front? This tail heaviness thing seems to be a recurring theme throughout this thread. Oh well, mine is in, I'll be picking it up at the freight terminal this afternoon after work. Will try to keep everything well forward.
jmw[8D]
11-23-2004, 01:45 PM
#47
RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
John -we do not use the smaller engines
when we did the first assembly -it was obvious that the model would reach close to twenty lbs - that signalled a STOP!
We selected the next larger (more power engines with least weight .)
The 80 ZDZ with an in cowl Pitts weighs aprox 5 lbs If you weigh the entire 50 engine and pipe assembly -you will be well into the 4 lb arena.
We did the same thing on the Air Wild models and the 2.6 Comp - advertised for 100 cc engines - we hit 28 lbs -in a heartbeat- said HOLD IT!
pulled the 100's -inserted 160's-
in both cases the models easily balance - NOT noseheavy .
The BARF *mfgrs don't like this approach- can't blame em .
but we found that at our altitude - the suggested setups are behind the needed power curve, for strong 3D flying.
Ballast does not make a good 3D addition------
*BARF stands for: built and ready to fly----or whatever seems apropo---
when we did the first assembly -it was obvious that the model would reach close to twenty lbs - that signalled a STOP!
We selected the next larger (more power engines with least weight .)
The 80 ZDZ with an in cowl Pitts weighs aprox 5 lbs If you weigh the entire 50 engine and pipe assembly -you will be well into the 4 lb arena.
We did the same thing on the Air Wild models and the 2.6 Comp - advertised for 100 cc engines - we hit 28 lbs -in a heartbeat- said HOLD IT!
pulled the 100's -inserted 160's-
in both cases the models easily balance - NOT noseheavy .
The BARF *mfgrs don't like this approach- can't blame em .
but we found that at our altitude - the suggested setups are behind the needed power curve, for strong 3D flying.
Ballast does not make a good 3D addition------
*BARF stands for: built and ready to fly----or whatever seems apropo---
11-23-2004, 01:56 PM
#48
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RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
Dick, where are these pictures you keep saying you are going to post? I'd like to see what you all have been doing with this setup. 
Joe
Joe
11-23-2004, 04:56 PM
#50
RE: ZDZ 80 setup on 2.3 comp-arf
here is one--
the blocks are 7/8" long- the little cutouts for the muffler are finished off using cloth and milled fibres
the plane has jr8411 's in all places and two of em fer the rudder -up front in a tandem equalized setup - like horses are hooked up to a wagon.
This goes out the door tomorrow - I am starting a 87" YAK with a tuned pipe ZDZ50 - (surprise ) for a magazine article
the blocks are 7/8" long- the little cutouts for the muffler are finished off using cloth and milled fibres
the plane has jr8411 's in all places and two of em fer the rudder -up front in a tandem equalized setup - like horses are hooked up to a wagon.
This goes out the door tomorrow - I am starting a 87" YAK with a tuned pipe ZDZ50 - (surprise ) for a magazine article