RustyTumbles

I thought I might start a thread for all those people who have 1/4 scale cap 232's or have previously owned or are thinking about purchasing a 1/4 cap 232.

The main reason behind this is to help people who are interested in the 1/4 scale cap 232 gain/collect information on this aircraft. This thread is not limited to a particular brand of ARF/Kit, as I think aircraft that are similar in size and weight can be very useful in research and developement of other aircraft.

I have previously have owned two smaller 40 sized caps, however I have recently ventured into the world of giant scale planes. Now I want a big cap, however my aeromodelling budget will not allow me to get a 1/3 scale cap. So therefore I'm looking at getting a 1/4 scale cap to go with my 1/4 scale extra.

I have narrowed my choice down to the H9 or Minicraft cap 232 as it is known is AUST. The problem is I wish to run a gas motor in it rather than the traditional glow engine. My question is. Are there any people out there that have the same setup or something very similar?

please express your ideas/concerns!! Oh and post pics too. (every thread needs pics)

terryj

My Feedback: (12)

Bigsport,

I'm kind of in the same boat. I have flown an H9 Cap with a G-23-- all right but not as good as a YS-140, or OS-160. I have a Sig Extra 300 SX with an OS-160 that has significant hanger rash and the 160 is starting to slow down. Recently I put a Hanson 260 in a Cermark Pitts. The 260 is a G-26 converted to ignition. Although definately heavy it really flies and runs well. I'm wondering if I would be happy with the 260 in the Extra.

I think gas engines in planes like this-- 72" 1/4 scale Caps and Extras do leave a little to be desired. On the other hand as expensive as gas is getting it's still about 1/8 the cost of 5% fuel. Let alone YS 20-20 blend.

If you can afford it, I THINK and 80" inch bird with a 45-50C gas burner will make you happier-- especially if you can pop for a BME 50. The BME in a GP Patty Wagstaff Extra is dynamite. I'm thinking of a G-45 in a Midwest Cap as a possible next project.

Lastly, I have one "flying mate" who flies the Sig Extra with a Brisson 40 in it. It runs circles around mine with the OS-160. The 160 is reputed to be a power house. Not so IMHO. Just a good everyday workhouse engine that uses a lot of 5% fuel! Also considering the Brisson 40 as an upgrade.

I'm in no hurry until I finish my current project.

Oh yeah. One last comment. Every Cap I HAVE flown has had the trait of being a little difficult to land. They seem to want to slow down and lose air speed and not altitude and the tail starts to drop. If you get behind the curve you can easily snap. The Extras I HAVE flown don't SEEM to do this including the Midwest. Beats me as to why as the planes are so similar. The Cap 231 uses the Extra wing! Maybe just different idea where the CG out to be. Never seen a Midwest Cap at the field. Several Extras.

An H9 or Sig Cap on a G-26 would be a good everyday economical plane but will not perform the 3D manuevers as well as one built very light.

See if that pulls any chains.

Terry

3D Joy

Do not get over 11 lbs with a good gasser and you SHOULD be OK. I personaly don't think it is the best route though. I have a 11 lbs 1/4 scale cap 232 with a YS 140 DZ and it flies great with good power. I am not even sure that there is a gasser out there that can out turn the YS and have a useable weight for 1/4 scale...

IMO, the best would be a scratch built (very light) with a ZDZ 40 no frills added. Or even better, a ys 160 DZ, 10.5-11 lbs cap with a good thin wing.

There is always the option of the CapX with DA 50 but I think it is too much power and that the weight can go up in a hurry : you know metal gear servos, bigger batteries, ignition battery, etc. All things associated with gas engines.

tonyc

My Feedback: (4)

bigsport

I am just now getting into 1/3 scale and I will be scratch building a Cap 232.

Do you already have a gas motor to use? Or will you be buying a new one?

I have flown a lot of 1/4 scale airplanes and I would not use a gas motor for a plane that size. I have 4 Moki motors in 4 different 1/4 scale airplanes. The Moki uses no nitro fuel and the cost to fly is very low.

tonyc

corsair01

Hey guys, I own a 82" Cap 232 3D with a 3w50 with tuned pipe. Plane weights about 7 kg. and flies like hell. Landings are no problem just have to watch my speed.

tonyc

My Feedback: (4)

corsair1;
Did you mount your 3W-50 inverted? From the picture I can't tell.

RustyTumbles

I already have a WM patty wagstaff extra with a G38 in it. I weighs in at a touch under 17Lb. Although it is not a 3d powerhouse it flys very well. This is my first gasser and first giant scale plane so I'm still getting used to it.

I'm looking at starting a new project soon so I can hide in my hangar again. All I'm doing now is flying every weekend and nothing to do in between. I love caps and I was looking at doing some thing around 1/4 scale and powered by a 26-50cc gas engine. I am open to suggestions!!!! I love gas planes now, they are so much cheaper to run than glow. Although they can be a little more expensive to setup!!!

I am not really into doing 3d I'm just looking for something that fly strong and with authority. I like watching poeple fly 3d but I don't like to dangle $1500-2000 worth of aircraft from the prop inches from the ground. I tend to fly a little higher and put the plane through some tumbles, snaps, spins, etc. With some loops, rolls, point rolls and knife edge thrown in. Mostly sport aero's.

Corsair01, What brand of cap is yours? Is it a kit or an ARF? It looks really sweet!!!! I like the 3w engines also. There are a few at my club and they run so well and are a real powerhouse. My I should go for the 3w 28i?

Teryj, I think the tail dropping when power is reduced is a CG issue. I know my little caps did this until I moved the CG forward a touch.

corsair01

Tonyc, my engine is mounted sideways and fits totally under the cowl.
Bigsport, this is an ARF, it was not the cheapest one but by far the best ARF I'v owned so far.

CAPtain232

My Feedback: (40)

Corsair,

I like your trim scheme

CAPtain232

My Feedback: (40)

Oh....sorry, it's not a 1/4 scale, but I do have one of those too.

RustyTumbles

Corsair01, who builds this ARF? What are the specs of this airframe (wingspan, length, wing area, etc)?

Is there anyone out there that has used a gas engine on a 1/4 scale cap with good results?

I was looking through some old magazines when I came across an article in the july 2004 Fly RC. It was a review on the Kangke super kraft cap 232 120. The review aircraft was flown with a fuji 32cc gas engine and 18x8 apc prop. The aircraft only has a wingspan of 74" and a wing area of 1201sq in. With an all up weight of 14Lb 8Oz! Now that seems heavy for an aircraft of that size. However the flight review was still very good.
This airframe doesn't do much for me and I more than likely wouldn't buy it. However the specs are very similar to that of the H9 cap 232. So if they can fly that cap on a 32cc mag engine, why can't a G26 or better yet a 3W 28 on the h9 cap work as a good combo for what I'm looking for?

terryj

My Feedback: (12)

I agree on the CG issue. I think it's just different opinions of "correct". The mfgr's recommendation us a starting point. In any case, they were all "landable". Just the Extras were more docile. Probably could have tweaked them and achieved the same characteristics.

corsair01

Bigsport, go to http://www.topmodelcz.com, it's the manufacturer of the plane and you can find any info you asked for there.
Captain232, I must say I like your sheme too, but I thing yours won't fly with a 3w50

corsair01

Sorry Bigsport, it's http://www.topmodelcz.com without a ,

RustyTumbles

That sure is a nice looking model! I also like the subaru version as well.... It is about the same size as my WM extra so it must be a mad plane to fly with the 3w 50....

What other cap 232 kits/ARF's are out there in this size range? There's not much to choose from here in australia, mainly just the H9/minicraft and the WM cap.... So if I want something else I will pobably have to import it.

What do you guys think of the H9 cap?

If anyone else has any questions reguarding there cap please feel free to ask.... This thread is for everyone that has or wants to own a cap 232.......

beausol

My Feedback: (18)

Bigsport,

My neighbor has a H9 1/4 scale CAP-232 which I am going to buy from him. It has a ZDZ 40 RV-L (side exhaust) on it. Now this is a little overkill for the plane, but the ZDZ is a very lightweight engine (only about 3 lbs!!!!) for the size and the extra power works great. It's swinging a 20x8 prop. The ZDZ 40 is about $525 from www.rcshowcase.com.

I've flown this plane once, and have seen it fly several times. Performance is awesome. I don't know the weight of the plane, but it's pretty light....I'm guessing about 13-14 lbs.

I also have a H9 1/4 scale Clipped Wing Taylorcraft with an OS 1.60FX in it....it weighs in at about 16 lbs. The 1.60 is the right engine for the T-craft....flies very scale-like at 3/4 throttle. I used to have a 1/4 scale Ohio RC Extra 300 with the 1.60 in it and it was OK, but not unlimited vertical.

Hope this helps!

--Rich

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

I have owned two of the H-9 232s since 1998. I have also owned a Sig CAP 231 ES all powered with OS FT160 twins.
The H-9 to me was an overall better performer for a couple of reasons the principal reason being a longer tail moment.
Since I owned both the H-9 and the Sig at the same time, I made several side by side comparisons.
One thing that I did early on was remove the landing gear from both models and lay one on top of the other for a mirror image comparison. Everything was close as far as areas and overall dimensions but the Sig had the wing moved 3 1/2 inches further back in the fuselage than the H-9.
Since I liked the way that the H-9 held uplines I reworked the Sig Fuselage and wing so that they both had the same prop to leading edge measurements. With this I found that the Sig flew in a much groovier state and did snap manuevers even better.
Unfortunately it was lost in a head on midair with just over 50 flights on it.

Going back to the H-9s I did find that the earlier airframes did have some minor glitches which I am sure have been long resolved.
Two that stand out were weak landing gear mounts and dramatically different weights of wood from one airframe to the next.
I found wing panels weighing as much as 4 ozs difference from right to left.

Overall as a mid sized ARF I do think that the H-9s are great sport aerobatic ships that prepare pilots for bigger birds that have a wider range of performance capabilities. I still fly the one in the picture. It is made from the pieces of my first one, a friends and the landing gear from the mid aired Sig. I chose to do it in the Breitling scheme just for something a little different.

RustyTumbles

WOW a zdz 40, thats insane!!!! I think I'm leaning towards the 3w28. It has more power than the g26 and is 300grams lighter. However I do like the simpicity of the zenoah engines, and from what I've heard they will turn a 18x6 prop at 8600rpm with a slimline muffler. So the performance is there, it's just the weight of the engine is the concern! I not sure what props the 3w28 would turn well maybe someone out there knows?

From what I've seen the h9/minicraft build quality is quite good. I have owned a minicraft cessna 182 and it was light yet strong and the wood was good quality....

What about the WM Cap232? Would it be a better choice?

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

Hi this is my 28% Cap 232 built from a Lainer kit .Wingspan 81" weighs 16 lbs useing a G-62 for power,All 1/4 scale servos in the tail to balance the G-62 gasser.The plane flies well and is easy to land, Because of the size it will slow down rather quickly, but I havent had any balloning or tail drop.This pic is just before I had the wheelpants finished and did the initial engine run in.I did add a glass cowl and pants ,never was much on ABS plastic .I'm not sure if this kit is still in production,I think the ARF version still is though.Happy Landings

RustyTumbles

Is that a converted G62 or a standard magneto? How is the flight performance with the G62? My PW extra is just under 17Lbs and flys well with a G38, you must have plenty of vertical?

I'm going to do some more research and see what numbers the 3W28 will pull and then I decide what engine to run. I would also like to hear some more on the WM Cap! I think I will probably go for either the WM or the H9/minicraft Cap, as they are avialible here in australia for a really good price. Not sure which one would work better, although I do like the H9/minicraft colour sceme better!!!

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

Its just a standard 62 with a volicity stack, the plane does fine for vertical,but its not unlimited it will finally stop when its about the size of a pea*LOL* At 5000 feet I need a little more engine than whats called out .

RustyTumbles

sounds like it flys pretty well then? I fly at sea level so weight is not as big a deal as it is for you guys that fly at altitude!! I did some more research on the WM cap and I found that it only has a wing area of 964sq in. Compared to the H9/minicraft at 1031sq in. How is it that the same type of plane with the same wing span has a different wing area? So I think I will go for the H9/minicraft cap, and at $389AUD it's a steal....

Ok thats the airframe sorted.... Now time for engine choice!!!

I did have a look around for the specs of the 3w 28i and it weighs in at 2.67lbs with ignition and will turn props between the sizes of 16x10 - 20x8. No rpm figures were given. At a price of $875AUD without muffler.....

Compared to:

Zenoah G26 which weighs in at 3.3lbs with standard muffler and will turn a 16x8 at 8900 with standard muffler or a 18x6 at 8600 with a slimline muffler. (I will would put a slimline on it)
Take away the metal mounting plate and replace it with a ply one, and take away the standard muffler and replace it with a slimline. The weight should then drop to around 2.7-3.0Lbs.
At a price of $620AUD with the slimline muffler.....

I think the Zenoah is looking the goods. What do you guys think?

RustyTumbles

Here's a few pics of mike goulians cap. If only someone made a 1/4 scale arf of this one!!!

terryj

My Feedback: (12)

Bigsport,

I stated earlier that the H9 with a G-23 was ok. The G-26 would be much better. If you decide on the G-26, go for the Hanson conversion. Ralph Cunningham's ignition runs fine on a standard 4-cell 600maH RX pack. Most others want 1000-1500maH packs. I use the Slimline muffler. If you don't mind a little noise, you'll get another several hundred RPM using the Abell Hobbies muffler. The Hanson 260 is also several ounces lighter than the stock 26 even with the battery. You won't have a rocket but I think you'll really like it. And it hand starts easily. I'm running an APC 17-6 and getting about 9000 on the ground. Bruce Hanson swears by the Mejzlik (SP?) 18-6. They are pricey. Ralph Cunningham will do the ignition conversion for $150US to a stock G-26. The converted engines are going for $425 US now I believe.

Maybe an NIB G-26 on RCU or e-bay?

If you go for the 260, you'll love the engine-- just wish I could say it was a great combo in an H9 Cap. BTW, are you talking about the original 73" one or the newer 80"? My friend bought an ARC version for $200 of the original one on e-bay.

Best of luck on whatever you decide.

Terry

Oh yeah, the is another one-- Extreme Aircraft I believe that was/is going for $279 US. There is video of it on their web site. It's in the Atalia color scheme. It looks good. Check it out.

RustyTumbles

Can You buy the converted engines NIB? That would be easier for me, rather than sending the engine to the states.... It is the older version of the H9 cap as the new one is not avialible here yet. I have found the APC props to be quite good in this size range also. The 18x8 on my extra works very well and has alot of vertical for a large heavy plane.

What type of radio setups are you guys running in this size plane? I was just thinking a single 2000maH for receiver and a single switch. I am running dual switches and receiver packs in my extra, do you think it is required in this size plane? I will be using digital servos, so I will need a decent size receiver pack.