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NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Old 09-30-2005, 12:25 PM
  #201  
drbebob
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I did not put any downthrust in nor was any called for in the "instructions". I will let everyone know how it flies as soon as I am able to fly it. We have about 30 mph wind today. I don't test fly in that.

Bob
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Old 09-30-2005, 10:15 PM
  #202  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Thanks for the pic. I was actually thinking about this today. I was wondering if the servo shuts off and there is no longer torque applied to the choke, would it back off. I kind of doubt it because there is no spring tension like on the throttle. Also that detent on the choke is only when it goes full open. There is none on the close side. So that spring would be enough tension to open that choke? That last little detent motion takes a bit of force to click it open.

BTW I just glued in my firewall. I used some trig and calculated the engine offset to be 3/8". The firewall on the right sits back 7/16" from the front right of the fuse. The firewall on the left is flush with the front left of the fuse. With 3.5 inch stand off's on my DA50 I have a 7 5/16 from the firewall to the prop hub. So the engine offset is Tan (3) x 7 5/16 = 3/8" (0.383 rounded down to workable fraction). Then the firewall angle is Tan (3) x 8.75 = 7/16 (0.458 rounded down to a workable fraction). I called Max at BME and he reassured me that no down thrust was needed.

ORIGINAL: drbebob

Joe-- Here's a photo of a retract servo set up with " servo saver" linkage available from Dubro or Great Planes. The spring loading makes sure that you keep some tension on the choke linkage to insure accurate actuation. The detents on some motors (like the DA50) are very "positive".


[img][/img]
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Old 09-30-2005, 11:37 PM
  #203  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Well...thought I'd post a little something different:

I maidened it today!

I only had time for a quick flight. The C.G. was set around 5.25". Didn't try anything too fancy so I can't really compare it to my EF Yak just yet. However, I did try a couple harriers and the bloody thing is rock solid...I mean SOLID. Into the wind or crosswind, didn't matter. The BME Edge has the Yak beat hands down on the harriers but I think that's more due to the shape of the leading edge than anything.

I was very dissapointed in the roll rate (a full roll seems to take forever!) but I think I need to adjust my control horns for more aileron throw. The elevator isn't too twitchy even on high rates but has lots of authority. Knife edge was kinda sloppy but, again, I think my setup needs adjusting here. In the rudder's case, I ended up tightening the pull pull cables as they seemed a tad slack. The plane didn't seem to exhibit too much coupling in knife edge flight but in this case, it did pull towards the canopy a bit, opposite of what the Yak does.

It was a tad windy so I couldn't say for sure how the uplines are. It seemed to track decently enough. I built 2 degrees of thrust into the firewall.

The Edge slows down really quickly...I couldn't believe it actually and had to make sure I kept the throttle up on final approach. I absolutely greased the landing

That's about it. Sorry I don't have more to report but I plan to go out again tomorrow and wring it out a bit more. I think this airplane has great potential!

Cheers,

John
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Old 10-01-2005, 09:04 AM
  #204  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Joe -- Don't worry about the retract servo holding position. It has almost 180 degrees of travel end stop to end stop so the mechanical advantage at the end points is tremendous. What you want to do is measure the length of the arc of the choke arm and then use one half that measurement plus a 1/16" or so to maintain spring tension as the radius of the servo arm connection point. Retract servos are geared for extremely high torque but they are slow. Don't get your finger in the linkeage when playing with the setup, I can tell you from experience that you will visit a world of hurt.

Bob
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Old 10-01-2005, 09:09 AM
  #205  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

John--- Thanks for the flight report. We have wind again today but I may go out anyway since our club just put in a new cross wind runway. Your initial impression is very encouraging. How much aileron throw were you using? I would crank in the max. The wing planform is not one that would encourage rolling so I think a lot of throw is going to be necessary. The Yak will probably remain king of the roll, however.

Bob
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Old 10-01-2005, 05:20 PM
  #206  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Is this typical of an Edge that it does not roll fast?

ORIGINAL: drbebob

John--- Thanks for the flight report. We have wind again today but I may go out anyway since our club just put in a new cross wind runway. Your initial impression is very encouraging. How much aileron throw were you using? I would crank in the max. The wing planform is not one that would encourage rolling so I think a lot of throw is going to be necessary. The Yak will probably remain king of the roll, however.

Bob
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Old 10-01-2005, 06:34 PM
  #207  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Got a few more flights in today.

My main complaint thus far is that the airplane tends to snap to the right a bit when pulling into a wall. It isn't too bad and can probably be compensated a bit by mixing rudder and throttle. My Extreme Flight Yak on the other hand does not snap at all. Pulls into a perfect wall. I haven't tried a parachute yet so I don't know if it will snap doing one or not. The Yak parachute is mind boggling!

The Edge gets a leg up on harriers though. Rock solid.

I sorted out the roll rate by shortening the length of the adjustable control arms to get more throw. I'll have to program in some differential to get things a bit more axial. I didn't have to do this on my yak.

My C.G. as stated before is around 5.25" I'll probably end up around 6" or 6.25" which puts it right over the wingtube. Hopefully moving it back won't magnify the snap too much.

Hovering it is a dream. I have a very restrictive muffler on the DA50 right now so I don't have much vertical or pull out. Having said that, the Edge definitely hovers better than the Yak and will get even easier once I move the C.G. back. Not much else I can add here other than to say both planes are great in this manouver.

Knife edge flight is better than the Yak by just a bit. Needs much less elevator input. The Yak does have a more authoritative rudder from what I have seen. Maybe it's my setup on the Edge but I'd be a bit afraid to try a knife edge loop just yet. I did manage to do a high alpha KE nice and slow which I've been unable to on the Yak.

It was a bit windy today and I had a couple reasonably hard landings and bounced the plane. My earlier fears about the gear seem unfounded. The composite gear in this kit have a fair amount of give to them unlike the Yak gear. I think they will hold up just fine.

I want to say that the fun factor is higher with the EF Yak but it is way to early to say for sure. I need to adjust the CG and get a better muffler on the DA50. I also need more stick time to get everything else setup the way I like it. I can say that for the first few flights I'd give the Edge an A- but I'd give the Yak an A+, mainly because I didn't need to do much adjusting to get the Yak flying the way I like it. Part of the lower score could be attributable to that damn restrictive muffler which is no fault of the Edge...hard to say just yet.

These are just intial thoughts and subject to revision as the airplane matures!

Cheers,

John
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Old 10-01-2005, 07:19 PM
  #208  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

John, My Aeroworks edge did the same thing. The fix was to remove 1 of the 2 degrees of the right thrust (I put washers under the right side standoffs. I tried all kinds of mixing and was never happy. After that I never had a snap.

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Old 10-01-2005, 09:07 PM
  #209  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Thanks for the info! I had a feeling it was the thrust line. Only reason I put any in at all is because the part of the cowl behind the spinner backplate is angled....so couldn't really use 0 degrees since there would be a big ugly gap on one side.

Cheers,

John
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Old 10-01-2005, 10:10 PM
  #210  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I maidened my Edge today. Started out very nose heavy at 5" and moved the flight battery back to the wing tube area. Still nose heavy. I think John (Sydythers) is correct about the eventual location of CG-- probably center of tube. My DA50 was new so did not do anything low and slow. What 3d I did was at altitude and more difficult to observe. Slow flight is excellent, transitions to a harrier well and floats like a feather. KE flight is good except for a small amount of proverse roll coupling. Pulled a bit to the canopy but that may be due to the up trim from the nose heavy condition. Very responsive to all control inputs and very agile. Up lines forever and straight with wind correction, very windy today. Downlines impressively straight with again a slight pull to canopy due to up trim. Slow flight and landings were excellent. This is where the Edge wing excels. Able to three point at walking speed consistently. Gear has just the right amount of spring for a no bounce 3 point. My bellcrank system on elevator worked fine using one 5955. The two 1800 mah NiMH packs went 6 flights and still had plenty of juice for 3-4 more flights. I was the one who ran out of juice. No need for bigger batteries. The DA50 did not miss a beat and seemed to improve with each flight particularly the idle to midrange response. The speed with 23X8 Mejzlik was perfect. Rain predicted for tomorrow; but if not; more trim flights with CG back. So far nothing but good stuff. I had no complaint about roll rate but probably not its strong point; the Yak will reign as fastest roll in town. The rolling ability of the airplane was excellent for an airplane that is no way in pattern trim. Bodes well for the future. More later.

Bob
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:38 PM
  #211  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Hi Guys!

Congrats you your maidens! Your feedback sounds very promising, I only hope I can get mine together before the end of the flying season.


drbebob,

Where did you find the CF laminate material for your firewall? Do you have to put some inserts in to mount the stand-offs?

Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:46 PM
  #212  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

David-- Aerospace Composites has all the goods:http://www.acp-composites.com/ Yes you must reinforce the holes for the standoff bolts or the balsa core of the laminate will crush. I use 3/8X1/4 nylon tubing CA'd in and sanded flush. Also make sure you do good corner reinforcement; regular triangle stock is not adequate since you are only glueing to the rear laminate surface. I put in long grain triangle stock (with the grain running parallel with the base of the triangle). A couple pieces of that and then cut through the corner from the outside of the motor box with a hacksaw held at 45 deg to the firewall. Cut traingles of .025 CF plate and glue into kerfs and sand flush. It ties all elements together and make a very strong joint. Here's a Pic

hope that helps
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:48 PM
  #213  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

here's one after gluing
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:14 PM
  #214  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Veddy nice! The only part I question is the glue joint holding the nylon tube to the laminate. Have you used this type of joint before with good results?
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:26 PM
  #215  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Yes-- roughen the outside of the tube with 80 grit, harden the hole it goes into with thin CA and then glue in with medium CA. Make sure to bond to the CF lam surface. You will have to drill it out if you want to remove it.

Bob
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:07 AM
  #216  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Thanks! Two more questions if I may impose, did you get 1/4" material for the firewall? Will a 6x12 panel be large enough to cut a firewall from?

I really like the idea of the CF firewall, partly because it is a very quick and relativley painless way to loose some weight, but I am planning to run 2 elevator servos in the tail and the engine I am running is 5 oz lighter than a DA50. I am a bit worried that I will be creating a balance problem if I lighten up the front end too much. If course the ignition and it's battery will be out on the firewall, I don't know if there is anything else i can move forward to compensate.
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Old 10-04-2005, 07:50 AM
  #217  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I'd also be concerned about balance if I were you. You will need to use a big single elevator servo and put it up front next to the rudder servo. This is a totally light way of doing it but there will be pull pull cables everywhere. This is the method Dave Patrick likes the best. Another thing is that I would use 3.5 inch stand off's. You need that engine as far forward as possible.

ORIGINAL: David_Moen

Thanks! Two more questions if I may impose, did you get 1/4" material for the firewall? Will a 6x12 panel be large enough to cut a firewall from?

I really like the idea of the CF firewall, partly because it is a very quick and relativley painless way to loose some weight, but I am planning to run 2 elevator servos in the tail and the engine I am running is 5 oz lighter than a DA50. I am a bit worried that I will be creating a balance problem if I lighten up the front end too much. If course the ignition and it's battery will be out on the firewall, I don't know if there is anything else i can move forward to compensate.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:19 AM
  #218  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

David--- Yes, 1/4 inch is fine and 6X12 is plenty big. And yes you will be getting into balance problems with two elevator servos in the tail. I used a single servo and a bellcrank system with the servo next to the rudder servo. I think pull-pull on elevator is also an option and a good one as suggested by JoeAirport. I have used this on several pattern and IMAC planes with good success. I always use a tiller bar system so that I can crank up the cable tension. I don't want extra "expo" on my elevators. I don't like extending the nose moment of the airplane with longer standoffs but this may be another option. I did not do this on my Edge, but used the standard DA50 standoffs. If you use pull-pull you probably won't have to do that.

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Old 10-04-2005, 11:35 AM
  #219  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Given that I want to get this in the air ASAP so I can get some performance data for the engine/exhaust, I think I'll build it stock, more in like with what the average modeler would do anyway.
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Old 10-06-2005, 09:39 AM
  #220  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

Will those BME supplied CF control rods work with the Central Hobbies titanium ends? Which size titanium ends will work? I was thinking that the BME CF rods might be an odd size.

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Old 10-06-2005, 12:14 PM
  #221  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I wrote a post about this sometime back. The titanium ends do no fit and must be reamed with a number 31 drill. Slip a piece of 3/16 ID aluminum tubing about 1/4 inch long over the end of the CF rod and glue before reaming. This prevents the CF from splitting.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2005, 11:56 AM
  #222  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I think I might just by the kit from Central Hobbies that has two 24 inch rods and (4) titanium 4-40 ends. Thanks for letting me know the titanium ends will not fit the BME CF rods.

I'm wondering if I can use an extra Dave Brown lite flite foam wheel for the tail wheel. I could save half an ounce over the stock one. Anyone have a very light tail wheel that they used? Tail weight savings is precious!!!

ORIGINAL: drbebob

I wrote a post about this sometime back. The titanium ends do no fit and must be reamed with a number 31 drill. Slip a piece of 3/16 ID aluminum tubing about 1/4 inch long over the end of the CF rod and glue before reaming. This prevents the CF from splitting.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2005, 12:45 PM
  #223  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I used an MK 1" t/w (25mm). They should be available from Central so get a couple when you order the rod kit.

Bob
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Old 10-09-2005, 03:01 PM
  #224  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I have a question!
Is it possible to balance this plane correct with a DA 50 or should i use a mvvs 58 (evo 58) for better balance?

In other words, are the DA 50 to light for a correct CG?

Daniel
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Old 10-09-2005, 03:32 PM
  #225  
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Default RE: NEW 30% BME EDGE II

I used a DA50. More than enough power. The MVVS would be overkill and add a pound minimum to the weight of the aircraft; nice motor though.

Bob
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