Lowlevlflyer

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Just picked up a Dave Patrick Extra 330L last night. This will be my first giant scale bird, and I need a little engine advice. I did a search on here, but didnt find the info I was looking for. I am planning on using this plane in some IMAC competition next season (basic class), and probably some mild 3D stuff at the field also. I really like what I have read so far about the new Saito 220, and just wondered what you guys think about using that engine on this plane. I dont want to go gas at this point, but would like to use a 4 stroke. I know it's gonna be thirsty, but so is a Moki, so that's not really a factor in my decision. How about it, is the Saito gonna work here?

PaulBK

i think you need to give gas some serious consideration. when you think of the number of things that can go wrong with a big 4 cycle, the maintenance required, the fuel it is going to drink, the weight of that fuel, the needed reliability of competition ( i have CD'ed many IMAC events and have zero patience for engine problems when pilots needed to be in the air), and the cost....it's going to be gas. a good, light gas engine.

btw, i just installed a saito 220 in a customer's airplane...it is one big mutha.


Paul
Priority RC Building
Corona CA

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

41 reads and only one opinion??? Dave Patrick says this plane was not designed for gassers. I know he flies his with a Taurus 2.6 from what I've read... I need a little more info to make a decision here.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

everyone single one I have seen has either a moki 2.1 or a 50cc gas, a perfect choice would be the new mvvs 45 magnesium case, its the lightest 50cc out there and tons of power. I am sure the saito would fly it, maybe with an 18x8 or 18x10 and 30% heli fuel (expensive!), but cannot come close to the reliability and cost of gas.

T. Bob

My Feedback: (9)

I had one with a ZDZ 40 and it just wasnt enough power. It flew and looked great.
A 220 with 30% and keep the airframe as light as possible it might work.
For whats it's worth.....

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I have the DP Edge with Moki 2.10. Does not drink 0% nitro at all. Very economical in fact. The problem is that it's just not quite enough power for me. But this plane is a glow plane, not a gasser. It has neither the strength nor wing area to support gas IMO.

The Saito 220 would be a perfect choice. And I think the 30% nitro is not necessary. 15% is fine. Use a 16-20 oz fuel tank. 16 oz would be much lighter with a 10 minute max flight time with reserve fuel on touch down.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

Maybe it's just the fact that I dont know that much about gassers except what I read here, but I fail to see where they are so much more reliable than glow 4 strokes when you have added vibration, extra systems for redundancy and dealing with RF interference, etc. Just seems like more to go wrong to me. But, like I said, I havent been around gassers that much. I do know that this is a very nice looking aircraft, but it does NOT look like it is built to handle a gas engine. Someone said this was a hard aircraft to find the perfect engine for, I'm inclined to agree.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

brison 3.2 on mine swinging a 22 x8 at 7200 rpm that is what u need this is the 1st series extra that he realease about 4-5 years ago.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

What's your all up weight? I'd guess 16 pounds but I could be wrong.

krayzc-RCU

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i think it was 16.5 give or take 8 oz

Lowlevlflyer

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That's a nice looking install. I think I saw your Extra on a couple of the other DP Extra threads I checked out. What mods did you make to the airframe, if any, to beef it up for the gas engine? I see you cut the hatch out because the first production runs of the Extra didnt have a removable hatch, correct?

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

Lowlevlflyer
i installed a dowel into each wing wiht a 4/40 socket head to remove the wings and install a ply plate to hold the fuel tank on CG, 1/4 angle corner brace was put on the both sides of the firewall, and that has been it as far as big mods. i ran the CA hinges for over 100 flights then i chagned those out to robart; however, i never had any hinges fail. The kit is built very strong. This was when it was unheard off to put a gas on this one, you should have seen how they beat this topic up to me 4-5 years ago, as we all raced to finish the 1st batch. Here she is still holding together and flying 3d and IMAC pretty well. Someone up in Canada cut the tail feather graphics for 4 of us at the time on rcuniverse.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

[8D]

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Sounds about right. My Edge 540T is 15 pounds 3.5 ounces with a Moki 2.10. It would be about 16 pounds with a DA50.

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

Lowlevlflyer

Hi

Not to long ago I had to make the same decision your asking while building my DP Edge 540T. There are many guy's out there that say just go gas but the truth is the airframe is in that awkward size range that is really just a tad small for a 50cc motor. This is the conclusion I arrived at after talking to Dave Patrick and Gene Payson at length.

Originally I mounted a Saito 180 in mine and I am enclosing a link to a Video showing that combinations performance. To sum it up it was scale at best.

http://media.putfile.com/DP-Edge-540T-Flt--2/640

After 3 flights I decided that this was not the performance I was looking for. I tend to fly a bit hard and am fortunate to own and fly some very high performance equipment. I ordered the Saito 220 and in order to keep the weight of my Edge low I replaced several parts with Carbon Fiber. My ZFW is 13 lbs 8 ounces at this weight the Airframes performance is exceptional.

1st flight was in 20 mph winds and the ground roll was less then 11 feet. She was an absolute rocket with unlimited vertical she was hovering at 1/3 stick and rocketed out of the hover. landing was gentle and she rolled looped and Harrier like a Feather.

There is a lot to be said for building an airplane light try it and see.

Ian

Miloh

If you wonder about the 2.20 being enough power? DON'T. I had one on a DP 540T and the 2.20 just pulled it apart. On the second flight with this motor it dam near pulled the fuse out from between the wings. It was real messy.

Ian: What motor mount did you use for the 2.20?


Miloh.

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

Hey Miloh

I sent U a PM as well. The best mount I found was the Hangar 9 HAN2033

She can Handle the big 220 with no problems, To date mine has 8 flights and she rips the sky to pieces at 13.5 lbs on the DP Edge 540t.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=HAN2033


Ian

Miloh

Thanks Ian:

Miloh.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for digging up the info on the engine mount... I was kinda wondering about that myself.

shag555

I have a similar plane as you, H-9's Extra 260 27%... I've got 4 flights on the plane, and haven't wrang it out yet, but the power is incredible... YOu'll have no problems with this engine, and a 10 minute flight consumes only 11 ounces. It's not a hog like everyone thinks it is. The only problem I had so far is trying to keep the muffler on. It likes to vibrate loose at the muffler/header connection. I've tried all kinds of remedies, but nothing works so far. One guy suggested heating the muffler up, then putting the loctite to it and tightening. I guess I'll try that next if my fix fails, as I'm ready to buy some kind of aftermarket pipe at this point.

Again, don't worry about power with this motor. I'm running an 18x8 and really need to go with a 20x6 now.

MPB

Miloh

I have the same problem with the muffler on mine. When someone finds the solution I hope they let the rest of know.

Miloh.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

Outstanding... I ordered the 220 this afternoon from my LHS, and ordered the Hangar 9 mount as well. With the holidays this week, it should be here first of next week. You guys that have the Saito 220 and have actual experience with it in similar sized airframes, I appreciate you chiming in with your experiences. Now I just have to decide on my servos!

Ryan Nau

My Feedback: (54)

krayzc-RCU, What color yellow matches the DP extra? I am going to make a removable canopy hatch like you did this winter so only 2 screws hold the canopy in place instead of 10.
BTW, I have a DA 50 in mine with over 700 flights now on the engine and airframe and it rocks and still looks like new.
Ryan

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

Ultracote Pearl Bright Yellow

wow you have clocked sometime on yours. The longest I have kept a bird is about 400 flight on an AW Edge that i gave away a few years ago.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I think William Robison gave me this tip you can try on Saito big bore mufflers: Wrap the threaded pipe with teflon tape on both sides. Crank it down. After the engine heats up crank it down again. He says it always stays on for him.