Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
02-26-2007, 02:24 PM
#427
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Sorry John, but if you saw Barry's other posts, which have been deleted, you would know why I said what I did.
ORIGINAL: jrjohn
What the heck! the guy asked a question! I was wondering that myself.
John
ORIGINAL: Mokken
You just can't let it go.. I see why Chris sent you what he did.. Your hypocrisy know no bounds...
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
How much does the paint weigh?
Thanks
Barry
How much does the paint weigh?Thanks
Barry
John
Obviously this was a poor atempt at humor to lighten up the situation. Those of us that live at high elevation are concerned with every bit of weight. But the .0222 ozs or whatever it was, makes the plane look cooler. I'm never gonna add weight...unless it's cool.
I have been severly repremanded for my actions. So to make the world a better place I will bow out of this discussion.
I want to publicly wish Chris the best of luck with this airplane. Nothing is ever gained by argument. I've just proved that.
So lesson learned.
thanks
BArry
02-26-2007, 02:43 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Barry, we welcome you to be a part of and contribute to this thread. I feel argument, discussion and customer feedback are very important here. But lets base our discussion and argumentative responses on facts and first hand experience, not speculation and rumor.
02-26-2007, 03:54 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Jrjohn,
In reference to this,
Theres no doubt that you can "get away" with an undersize bolt. However, I would not recommend it. One is just not appropriate on something that costs this much. 2. It will probably work loose sooner or later & give slop. The ball link should always be clamped with a bolt of the appropriate size. That way if the bolt backs off it will still remain with little slop. Other than that, sure you could use it. it will clamp up, but this is your baby, why fudge now? Crashes, like accidents are series of bad choices combined with circumstance. The circumstances we can do little about, but the choices........ah the choices! Just trying to help, don't want to be overbearing. Have fun with you EF's. I just got my QQ 102 running & banged it up do to aforementioned bad choice. Anxious to see the end of the tale of the YAKS! Been reading with interest as you guys have killed the QQ Threads. All the Yak guys are over here now![8D] Have fun. Sorry about the first downed EF Yak, I heard it was hit by an Iraqi insurgent RPG!
In reference to this,
ORIGINAL: jrjohn
Dave, I remember something pages back about the ball links. I think you said the ball link that comes in the kit is made for a 3mm bolt. I believe your correct. You also said that if somebody wants to use an SWB arm, then they will need to buy a rocket city, or Dubro ball link. I just finished all my linkages and have come to a conclusion and want to see if you agree. I think that using a 4-40 bolt in place of a 3mm will not matter in the least with the ball links that come with the kit. The reason being, when everything is tightened down, the bolt can't move around inside the ball regardless of what size the hole is. Think about it. Also I use 4 washers on the side of the linkage with the fiberglass arms. One on each side of each fiberglass arm. When I tighten everything up, there is no chance of damage to the fiberglass arms and there is no play.
John
Dave, I remember something pages back about the ball links. I think you said the ball link that comes in the kit is made for a 3mm bolt. I believe your correct. You also said that if somebody wants to use an SWB arm, then they will need to buy a rocket city, or Dubro ball link. I just finished all my linkages and have come to a conclusion and want to see if you agree. I think that using a 4-40 bolt in place of a 3mm will not matter in the least with the ball links that come with the kit. The reason being, when everything is tightened down, the bolt can't move around inside the ball regardless of what size the hole is. Think about it. Also I use 4 washers on the side of the linkage with the fiberglass arms. One on each side of each fiberglass arm. When I tighten everything up, there is no chance of damage to the fiberglass arms and there is no play.
John
Theres no doubt that you can "get away" with an undersize bolt. However, I would not recommend it. One is just not appropriate on something that costs this much. 2. It will probably work loose sooner or later & give slop. The ball link should always be clamped with a bolt of the appropriate size. That way if the bolt backs off it will still remain with little slop. Other than that, sure you could use it. it will clamp up, but this is your baby, why fudge now? Crashes, like accidents are series of bad choices combined with circumstance. The circumstances we can do little about, but the choices........ah the choices! Just trying to help, don't want to be overbearing. Have fun with you EF's. I just got my QQ 102 running & banged it up do to aforementioned bad choice. Anxious to see the end of the tale of the YAKS! Been reading with interest as you guys have killed the QQ Threads. All the Yak guys are over here now![8D] Have fun. Sorry about the first downed EF Yak, I heard it was hit by an Iraqi insurgent RPG!
02-26-2007, 04:10 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Here is something I tried for the first time using Gorilla glue..take 2 pieces of tape and cover the hinge hole..apply 1 piece on each side vertically..then cut out the hole with an exacto knife...after the glue starts to set, remove the tape and all the excess glue will easily come off with the tape..dont let the glue fully cure as it will make it much more difficult to remove the tape..it does take some extra time but there is NO cleanup..especially using Maudib's "improved" hinge method
02-26-2007, 04:22 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Regarding Jrjohn's desire to use an undersized bolt through a ball link while reasoning that when it's tight and secured it won't move anyway. BAD IDEA!! Leaving the ability for something to move or loosed on an aircrft that will most likely be used for Walls, Blenders, and other hard pulling 3d maneuvers will eventually cause the ball link to move back and forth on the screw. The ball link banging back and forth on the bolt will also eventually elongate the opening in the housing for the ball.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
02-26-2007, 04:23 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
I tell ya one thing, I never saw an ARF that had so much support and involvement from the guy that sells it. That's a huge selling point in itself. We are watching......
I tell ya one thing, I never saw an ARF that had so much support and involvement from the guy that sells it. That's a huge selling point in itself. We are watching......
02-26-2007, 04:27 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
Regarding Jrjohn's desire to use an undersized bolt through a ball link while reasoning that when it's tight and secured it won't move anyway. BAD IDEA!! Leaving the ability for something to move or loosed on an aircrft that will most likely be used for Walls, Blenders, and other hard pulling 3d maneuvers will eventually cause the ball link to move back and forth on the screw. The ball link banging back and forth on the bolt will also eventually elongate the opening in the housing for the ball.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
Regarding Jrjohn's desire to use an undersized bolt through a ball link while reasoning that when it's tight and secured it won't move anyway. BAD IDEA!! Leaving the ability for something to move or loosed on an aircrft that will most likely be used for Walls, Blenders, and other hard pulling 3d maneuvers will eventually cause the ball link to move back and forth on the screw. The ball link banging back and forth on the bolt will also eventually elongate the opening in the housing for the ball.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
02-26-2007, 04:28 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
By the way, anyone have a good method for tuning an engine with a tuned pipe? A good starting point is what I'm looking for.
02-26-2007, 04:38 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
I don't know how "improved" it is... tee hee...
But I did some tests... I used to wet the holes, apply G-glue to the hole, apply g-glue to the hinge and stuff it in.
It alway spit a good deal of foam out (a LOT)
So I did some tests where I did not apply any to the hinge itself... but allowed the foaming to fill in around the hinge...
The results were less mess, and JUST as firm a hold on the hinges... I mean I had to either break the hinge or put so much stress that I couldn't do it myself...
SO my "streamlined" method is simply to:
Pre-prep hinges by dipping the knuckels in melted vaseline... then
1) wet the holes of both surfaces
2) apply a heavy drop to the trailing edge holes and poke and swirl it to coat the hole completely
3) insert hinge
4) apply glue to the holes of the mating surface
5) slide it over the hinges
Flex the surface to align the hinges and tape. Remove tape and flex after 5 minutes to insure hinges are free and aligned and clean any excess foam away from the knuckle area.
Josey shared with me the idea of the tape and it seemed like a good idea... and now he says it worked awesome... so add that to the pre-prep stage....
I'm REALLY satisfied with ths process now...
Thanks Josey for sharing the tip!
But I did some tests... I used to wet the holes, apply G-glue to the hole, apply g-glue to the hinge and stuff it in.
It alway spit a good deal of foam out (a LOT)
So I did some tests where I did not apply any to the hinge itself... but allowed the foaming to fill in around the hinge...
The results were less mess, and JUST as firm a hold on the hinges... I mean I had to either break the hinge or put so much stress that I couldn't do it myself...
SO my "streamlined" method is simply to:
Pre-prep hinges by dipping the knuckels in melted vaseline... then
1) wet the holes of both surfaces
2) apply a heavy drop to the trailing edge holes and poke and swirl it to coat the hole completely
3) insert hinge
4) apply glue to the holes of the mating surface
5) slide it over the hinges
Flex the surface to align the hinges and tape. Remove tape and flex after 5 minutes to insure hinges are free and aligned and clean any excess foam away from the knuckle area.
Josey shared with me the idea of the tape and it seemed like a good idea... and now he says it worked awesome... so add that to the pre-prep stage....
I'm REALLY satisfied with ths process now...
Thanks Josey for sharing the tip!
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
Regarding Jrjohn's desire to use an undersized bolt through a ball link while reasoning that when it's tight and secured it won't move anyway. BAD IDEA!! Leaving the ability for something to move or loosed on an aircrft that will most likely be used for Walls, Blenders, and other hard pulling 3d maneuvers will eventually cause the ball link to move back and forth on the screw. The ball link banging back and forth on the bolt will also eventually elongate the opening in the housing for the ball.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
Regarding Jrjohn's desire to use an undersized bolt through a ball link while reasoning that when it's tight and secured it won't move anyway. BAD IDEA!! Leaving the ability for something to move or loosed on an aircrft that will most likely be used for Walls, Blenders, and other hard pulling 3d maneuvers will eventually cause the ball link to move back and forth on the screw. The ball link banging back and forth on the bolt will also eventually elongate the opening in the housing for the ball.
Eventually this will cause a larger problem, such as pulling the ball though the housing. Not everyone uses a small flat washer between the outside of the ball and the bolt as a safety. Those that don't and use an undersized bolt may not be happy with later results.
Josey,
That tape thing works pretty good, right? I'm going to have to go back and find Maudib's "improved" hinge method. I'm curious as to how it works in relation to the way I do mine.
02-26-2007, 04:55 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
I cheat by putting a small amount of vaseline on each side of the hinge knuckle and hitting it with the heat gun. Same results-good control of where the oil goes into the hinge.
I want to hear more about setting up with a tuned pipe too.
R
Going
Going
I want to hear more about setting up with a tuned pipe too.
R
Going
Going
02-26-2007, 05:09 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
I am also interested in the tune pipe setup, will be a first for me on this yak. I have the KS 25mm drop flex pipe coming, concerned a little as the exhaust flange to end of pipe is 8.5''. According to this info from another post the length needed is longer. Am I missing taking the bend and drop into account when talking length?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
02-26-2007, 05:24 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: dbrford
I am also interested in the tune pipe setup, will be a first for me on this yak. I have the KS 25mm drop flex pipe coming, concerned a little as the exhaust flange to end of pipe is 8.5''. According to this info from another post the length needed is longer. Am I missing taking the bend and drop into account when talking length?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
I am also interested in the tune pipe setup, will be a first for me on this yak. I have the KS 25mm drop flex pipe coming, concerned a little as the exhaust flange to end of pipe is 8.5''. According to this info from another post the length needed is longer. Am I missing taking the bend and drop into account when talking length?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
02-26-2007, 05:37 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Another nice thing about the tape.
When you apply the low tack (blue or green, doesn't matter) tape to the bevel of both surfaces it pretty much sets the hinge gap for you. When the tape is removed the gap that's left is just enough to assure a full range of motion and leave a minimal air gap. The gap left from the tape is just about perfect for hinge sealing, which everyone is going to do anyway, right?
Something I mentioned to Josey that may help some. The holes for most hinge points are cut round. The knuckle on a hinge point is square. Square peg does not fit well in round hole. Use a flat needle rasp to bevel the sides of the hole to match the shape of the hinge point. Makes for a cleaner and tighter installation when all that hinge knuckle is not sitting there exposed in a giant air gap because they won't slide in far enough. All that's needed is for the hinge pin to split, or come close to splitting, the two points of the bevel.
When you apply the low tack (blue or green, doesn't matter) tape to the bevel of both surfaces it pretty much sets the hinge gap for you. When the tape is removed the gap that's left is just enough to assure a full range of motion and leave a minimal air gap. The gap left from the tape is just about perfect for hinge sealing, which everyone is going to do anyway, right?
Something I mentioned to Josey that may help some. The holes for most hinge points are cut round. The knuckle on a hinge point is square. Square peg does not fit well in round hole. Use a flat needle rasp to bevel the sides of the hole to match the shape of the hinge point. Makes for a cleaner and tighter installation when all that hinge knuckle is not sitting there exposed in a giant air gap because they won't slide in far enough. All that's needed is for the hinge pin to split, or come close to splitting, the two points of the bevel.
02-26-2007, 05:51 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Chris told me to get an MTW 20mm drop header from DA...But I'm running a DA-50
ORIGINAL: dbrford
I am also interested in the tune pipe setup, will be a first for me on this yak. I have the KS 25mm drop flex pipe coming, concerned a little as the exhaust flange to end of pipe is 8.5''. According to this info from another post the length needed is longer. Am I missing taking the bend and drop into account when talking length?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
I am also interested in the tune pipe setup, will be a first for me on this yak. I have the KS 25mm drop flex pipe coming, concerned a little as the exhaust flange to end of pipe is 8.5''. According to this info from another post the length needed is longer. Am I missing taking the bend and drop into account when talking length?
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5381585/anchors_5381585/mpage_1/key_escomposites/anchor/tm.htm#5381585[/link]
Mej. 22x8 open header 7110 rpm, 8" to 10" header 7560 rpm
Xoar 22x8 9" to 11" header 7170 rpm
Menz 22x10 10" to 12" header 7020 rpm
Mej. 23x10 10" to 12" header 6630 rpm
skorepa 24x8 12" to 13" header 6650 rpm
02-26-2007, 06:00 PM
#443
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
I do believe that header length is determined by the "snake length" of the pipe... as I've seen wehre they use a string along the header to measure and cut by...
Still the best source for length info is the pipe manufacturer... Ask them and they will tell all (hopefully)
Still the best source for length info is the pipe manufacturer... Ask them and they will tell all (hopefully)
02-26-2007, 06:24 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
I've cut the oil pan out too for more air exit... I'm thinkin' between it and the back of the oilpan (which is open completely to the back of the plane) should be suffcient air exit for the fron of the cowl (after being blocked by a 4.5" spinner)
I'll keep a watch on the cylinder temps for a few flight just to make sure...
I'll keep a watch on the cylinder temps for a few flight just to make sure...
02-26-2007, 06:39 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
ORIGINAL: EXTREME FLIGHT
Also Boo, what are you currently flying and what is your experience level?
Also Boo, what are you currently flying and what is your experience level?
I currently mainly fly an EF Profile Edge 540 (YS .63), a Flair (as was) Swallow (YS 1.10), a H9 Funtana S40 (YS .63) + some electrics and gliders. I am (ok, ok will someday rise to the level of) an average club pilot, but I am trying (when the English winter and my broken models allow) to follow the guidelines at [link=http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/AwesomePilot.htm]TBM[/link] to train to be a bit better.
If your point is what 50cc experience do I have then the answer is none, but there are a couple of the original EF 50cc Yaks at our club, and I am keen to own something like that. ISTM someone less expert like myself benefits from better vertical performance - certainly the lighter weight of the E540 helps compared with the Funtana.
I didn't answer your other post to avoid banging the same drum repeatedly - I already gave my answers to those questions.
ORIGINAL: Maudib
Everybody ignore the "heckler" noone will make him buy one of these nanaies... I promise... )
Everybody ignore the "heckler" noone will make him buy one of these nanaies... I promise... )
ORIGINAL: EXTRA ADDICT
I would say you are right Chris. You cant please everyone. He is just looking for something to complain about.
I would say you are right Chris. You cant please everyone. He is just looking for something to complain about.
Anyway, I've avoided repeating myself by a process of mucho editing so hopefully we can all go forward now.
Cheers,
Boo
02-26-2007, 06:42 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Looking good David!
I just received confirmation that the second shipment of Yaks has arrived in Long Beach port. With any luck we'll have them in about 10 days.
If you are interested in getting one from this shipment please contact us ASAP as most of them are spoken for. Next shipment will be in May.
I just received confirmation that the second shipment of Yaks has arrived in Long Beach port. With any luck we'll have them in about 10 days.
If you are interested in getting one from this shipment please contact us ASAP as most of them are spoken for. Next shipment will be in May.
02-26-2007, 06:45 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
If you are using a DA-50 and a DA-50 header, then the length should be perfect. If you are using a 366GT, then we are all treading new ground. All of us tuned pipe users are at the edge of our seats in anticipation of Chris's 366GT with the ESComposites pipe maiden flight. Both KS and EScomposites gives a target header length to pipe inlet for displacement of engine. The total length is measured from the piston face to pipe inlet. Prop dia/pitch effects pipe tuning. I am going to break in my 366GT with a cowl muffler and a Skorepa 22x8, then after about 3 gals fuel w/ Penzoil add the CF Pipe and switch to a Skorepa 24x8 then go with synthetic oil. It is best to start long on the header/coupler length and shorten in small increments. This pipe tuning procedure will requier carb needle adjustments as well. You can pipe a new engine, I just think It's easier to tune a pipe with a broken-in engine and prop combo. Hope this helps! [8D]
02-26-2007, 06:52 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
Boo, I know Daniel at Freestyle-RC should have his 88 inch Yak ready to fly shortly and his shipment will be there soon, so you will have an opportunity to see it in action for yourself and make an informed decision.