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Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Old 03-16-2009, 03:21 PM
  #7676
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54..._1/key_/tm.htm

The one flight report was on this exact plane with a 2 cell A123. and on page two I did some other non scientific tests.

Since I have never lost a battery due to a bad cell or lead I feel that one battery, just like one receiver or transmitter is plenty on this plane. It is all personal choice but you can get well over 100 minutes of flight when set up properly. (BTW I did have a receiver go bad on me and was lucky to get it down in one piece so I am biased)

Good luck guys, I have been using the 123's for nearly two years and just love them. FWIW when I changed my 40% Edge out from two 5200's on regulators to A123's the flight controls were much much more crisp and worth the while even though my capacity went from 11,400 down to 4,600 available. So I charge after 3-4 flights no problem.
thanks Richard!
I haven't read that thread. I should take this discussion there.
Your 2300 cells have a very different curve.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:55 PM
  #7677
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RTK

The fuel level on the cell pro is close, but not exact. Charge the batteries up and fly a few flights, then re-charge and read how man mah's you put into the battery. That way you know how many flights you can safely fly before dead.

You are correct. I probably made a poor choice of words with accurate. Close is a better. I always go ahead and let it charge, but I have found that if it says 50% it will usually put close to 1100-1200 mah's back in.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:19 PM
  #7678
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Well I went with 2.4G this season. Next winter I'll probably join ya'll with A123. So far my 1950 FAUP's are work horses.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:04 PM
  #7679
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54..._1/key_/tm.htm

The one flight report was on this exact plane with a 2 cell A123. and on page two I did some other non scientific tests.

Since I have never lost a battery due to a bad cell or lead I feel that one battery, just like one receiver or transmitter is plenty on this plane. It is all personal choice but you can get well over 100 minutes of flight when set up properly. (BTW I did have a receiver go bad on me and was lucky to get it down in one piece so I am biased)

Good luck guys, I have been using the 123's for nearly two years and just love them. FWIW when I changed my 40% Edge out from two 5200's on regulators to A123's the flight controls were much much more crisp and worth the while even though my capacity went from 11,400 down to 4,600 available. So I charge after 3-4 flights no problem.
Hey Wrongway, Thanks for the awesome write up on your A123 experience.[sm=wink_smile.gif] I was hesitant to switch away from my trusty Nicd's that I'm used to, but had my LHS order me a couple 2300mah Iron Core Extreme Fromecos to run through one of their Wolverine switches (2 deans in / 1 deans out), unregulated for my EF 88 Yak. I also added a couple of their Weasle Mah counters to put one on each pak so I have an idea of where I'm at at least till I get used to them.

You have done the homework for the rest of us. Nice Work.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:34 PM
  #7680
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Richard and Dick Hanson got me on the A123 bandwagon two years ago. They were the first people to really put info out for the rest of us. Until new technology comes out, I'm staying with A123's. Hats off to both of them.

Doug
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:33 AM
  #7681
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


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ORIGINAL: Absolut Yak

Richard and Dick Hanson got me on the A123 bandwagon two years ago.
Doug
Dick Hanson got me started. Hats off to him!!
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:13 AM
  #7682
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


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ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

You're pretty nerdy Gator. [8D]
That's the pot calling the kettle black![8D][sm=thumbs_up.gif]
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:08 PM
  #7683
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gatorb8


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

You're pretty nerdy Gator. [8D]
That's the pot calling the kettle black![8D][sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Gatorb8
LOL !!! I thought you'd get it. I'm a nerd and proud of it.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:40 AM
  #7684
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

have a cg question.....
I assume most of our setups are similar with servos, engines, rx, etc relating to cg balance
the main cg variable we have is battery weight and placement (although, engines may influence ....)

I have 3 1100 a123 batts (4oz each) currently on the engine box , A51 (weight?) 3" standoffs
Inverted flight at half throttle will maintain a 45* upline
I flys nice but then I try waterfalls, I have trouble getting it around

When I go to my sim, if I keep moving the cg back, the waterfalls get tighter and tighter
so today I'm going to start moving the batts back and see how things change

I would be interested in where others place batts and how heavy they are for comparison
thx
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:52 AM
  #7685
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

I have almost the same setup but a DL-50 with stock exhaust and CF spinner (3 oz). I have a 6.2 oz 5-cell NiMh on the left of the tank and a 3.4 oz 4-cell NiMh on the right side of the tank (there are ply beams to strap the batt's to on each side of the tank). I think it's right at 7" the last time I checked. It's totally neutral at this CG. I usually don't like it so far back but it really flew nice like that...very little work keeping it straight through the rolling maneuvers. These batt's were only temp installed with Velcro and foam padding. You could move at least your rx batts there with little effort to try it out.

I don't recall the details of my waterfalls the first day out. I'll have to pay attention next time. Do you back off the throttle during the rotation? That's really the proper way to do one per Chris Hinson's advice when this topic came up a while back. I'm not the best at describing the maneuvers but I'm pretty sure you only want throttle on for part of the rotation. You back off throttle once you approach inverted. Then let it fall a bit in sort of an inverted elevator....then roll on the throttle to make it come around again until you approach inverted again...etc etc. Try tweaking the maneuver a little. I just did a few on my sim and I really have to really stay on the ailerons and rudder to keep the wings level throughout the maneuver. It's the hardest one to do right in my opinion. And it's keeping the wings level that's the hard part for me.
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:47 AM
  #7686
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Me too.It's hard for me to remember which aileron input to give and it goes all wacky.. Chris Hinsons waterfall doesnt look like the waterfall most people do. Looks like he comes over the top and lets it fall inverted,not the continuous spin around the CG. It actually looks prettier I think that way.. But that's just me...
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:24 PM
  #7687
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Maybe it's the TruTurn spinner I'm running but it's crazy how y'all are balancing this plane. My c/g is right at seven with my Fromeco pack for ignition on the motor box and two Fromeco packs behind the wing tube for the receiver and servos. All that and I'm using a c/f tuned pipe! Weird!
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:39 PM
  #7688
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Makes sense. The TT spinner and header weigh more than the CF spinner and stock pitts on our Chinese engines. Also your CF pipe weighs very little.
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:11 PM
  #7689
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

quote: Also your CF pipe weighs very little. Exactly, it's light weight means it's not contributing much in balancing the model. Just curious, does anyone have a weight on the c/f spinner?
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:50 PM
  #7690
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tashley

quote: Also your CF pipe weighs very little. Exactly, it's light weight means it's not contributing much in balancing the model. Just curious, does anyone have a weight on the c/f spinner?
I just checked it for you...my TBM 4" CF spinner weighs 3.0 oz with the backplate, but before making the prop cut-outs. So, it would be safe to say just under 3 oz RTF (minus the center bolt)
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:39 PM
  #7691
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Thank you Sir.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:48 PM
  #7692
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Mine is the 4" Azure hobbies CF spinner and also weighs exactly 3 oz RTF. Comes with cuts in it already.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:14 PM
  #7693
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

I got 6 flights in today.
I moved 1 of the a123 4oz 1100 batts from the engine box to just in front of the rudder servo.
It actually flew much better. It still flys a hands off 45* inverted upline.
The big difference I noticed was the first waterfall went around quick and straight, much improved,
The other big difference I noticed was in a (parachute?), I would dive straight down and pull max up elevator, it settled into a nice flat-float down with the tail slightly down, again, much improved!
I may experiment with the 2nd battery, move it back also.
The only other thing I can think of is the elevator control horn, I am using the outer hole so I could get more elevator deflection if I go to the inner hole.
My 3D mentor (Build Fly Crash) says definately go for more elevator throw!
stay tuned....
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:41 PM
  #7694
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Bevel to bevel elevator throw is the only way to go. Makes the plane much more interesting.

Doug
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:40 AM
  #7695
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

I have almost the same setup but a DL-50 with stock exhaust and CF spinner (3 oz). I have a 6.2 oz 5-cell NiMh on the left of the tank and a 3.4 oz 4-cell NiMh on the right side of the tank (there are ply beams to strap the batt's to on each side of the tank). I think it's right at 7" the last time I checked. It's totally neutral at this CG. I usually don't like it so far back but it really flew nice like that...very little work keeping it straight through the rolling maneuvers. These batt's were only temp installed with Velcro and foam padding. You could move at least your rx batts there with little effort to try it out.

I don't recall the details of my waterfalls the first day out. I'll have to pay attention next time. Do you back off the throttle during the rotation? That's really the proper way to do one per Chris Hinson's advice when this topic came up a while back. I'm not the best at describing the maneuvers but I'm pretty sure you only want throttle on for part of the rotation. You back off throttle once you approach inverted. Then let it fall a bit in sort of an inverted elevator....then roll on the throttle to make it come around again until you approach inverted again...etc etc. Try tweaking the maneuver a little. I just did a few on my sim and I really have to really stay on the ailerons and rudder to keep the wings level throughout the maneuver. It's the hardest one to do right in my opinion. And it's keeping the wings level that's the hard part for me.
Joe,
when I do the waterfall on the sim I get it to almost hover, full down elevator, hit 3/4 to full throttle, when it comes around pointing vertical I check orientation and quickly correct with rudder only, I can waterfall it 5-6 times or into the ground, whichever comes first!

On my Yak, I can get the first one perfect now but on the second one she seems to twist out, I'm not pulsing the throttle though, haven't got that timing right yet. The wind was 10-13 mph, that may have something to do with it? If I pick up the plane in that wind I (and plane) get blown around.....

One byproduct I noticed about the rear cg was on landing decent in a gusty wind, a gust will give lots of lift and I have to be ready with down elevator. maybe a few clicks of down elev would help for landing

think I will go bevel to bevel on the elev and see how that flys next, then tweek cg again...

8 gallons and counting, I'm getting more comfortable with the EF Yak!

I didn't think about spinners....a 3 oz spinner on the nose is 24" from the wing tube (that's a lot of torque in the cg balance equasion). That would require me to move 8 oz of batts back 9" (from the engine box to the fuel tank, approx) to be equal

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Old 03-19-2009, 09:14 AM
  #7696
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Gator, what you're seeing is the diff between sim and real world. Real world is always harder from my experience. I have the same exact problem that you are having. The first one is good but the 2nd one gets squirrely. This is exactly how I lost my 87" Yak in the snow a few years back. I'd say to keep practicing (high !!!). I did my 2nd one only 20 feet off the deck when I crashed and lost orientaiton in the haze (I also panicked). Just keep practicing. I had better luck on the sim using aileron and rudder....just like in harriers. I use both.

When the CG is too far back it balloons on landing. That's the only thing I don't like about CG's too far aft. And with 3 oz CF spinners it can cause you to have to shift the batt's pretty far forward. I'll leave mine next to the tank for now. If anything they will go more forward....not back.
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:03 AM
  #7697
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

I remember QQ saying you can tell when the CG is good when you can land hands off and the planes settles in on the 3 point landing.. I'm with Joe I hate when it balloons on landing.. Giving some dwn. trim for landing should help..
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:52 PM
  #7698
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Abother thing it seems to do is bounce off the wheels/gear when it's too far back. It just doesn't want to stick to the ground. Then you get people saying "does that count for three landings?".
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:57 PM
  #7699
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

You can check if you need to mix a little down trim at idle. Take the plane to altitude and with the engine at idle put in into a verticle dive. It should dive straight straight and not pull to the canopy. Usually takes a little down elevator mixed with idle to get it to dive straight. This will also aid in the landings.
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:29 PM
  #7700
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly

Pretty much done with mine. Hope to test fly it within the next few days. My setup is simple and includes JR 8611a on all control surfaces. Dl 50 engine, 1900 ma 6V nicad battery for receiver and 1100 nicad for ignition (plan to switch to a123 on receiver next flying season). JR R945S Duel conversion PCM receiver. Used all the included hardware. I started
the DL the other day and it runs great out of the box. Will run on synthetic 40-1 mixture for 5 gallons then switch to 50-1.
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