Extreme Flight 88" Yak - Build and Fly
10-23-2009, 12:51 PM
#8851
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
I have a lot of experience with 50CC gas engines. I've had an Evolution 45cc, (3) DA50R, (2) BME 58, and a DLE55. Of the 3 the DLE 55 is giving the most thrust. I'm getting basically 25lbs thrust with the DLE55 on a cannister. Using the same prop, 22x8, I'd get 22.5lbs with my DA50. The Evo 45 was about 21lbs thrust. But the king of the thrust was the BME with 29lbs solid and spikes to over 30lbs. The DLE55 has been an excellent engine for me. I had a problem with it right off and had to clean the carb. It wouldn't run over 5000 RPM. But all I did was take the carb apart and clean every small hole I could see and put it back together. Took about 15-20 minutes, then it's worked perfect ever since. I'm getting about 7020 RPM and 25lbs thrust. I like the engine very much. The DA50s are excellent engine. Everyone has started easy and been stone reliable. They are a workhorse and an excellent choice. At my elevation they are just a little weak though for the new ''mammoth'' 50CC planes like this Yak. Mine weighed 17lbs 9ozs which is really pretty good but a DA 50 would be sluggish. If I ever assemble another one I'm gonna use the DLE55. I think it would fly fine.
My experience witht the BME58 was LOVE/HATE. It is an awesome engine and a super powerhouse. It pulled my 88'' around very VERY nicely. The best 50CC combo I've ever flew but I only got 5 flights out of the first one (the back of the engine cracked and blew out) I sent it in for warranty and ordered a 2nd one. The 2nd one flew 5 flights and then the reed pedals broke on it and it wouldn't run. I sent it in for warranty and got the first one back. I flew if for 5 flights and then it just wouldn't start again. I tried everything I could think of but I just couldn't get it to start. I sent it in for warranty and mounted the 2nd engine in the plane. I flew it for 7 flights and it broke the reed pedals again. I then gave up on it. I gave it to my good friend Steve. I gave him a new (different material) set of reeds and he has had good luck with it since. I still have engine #2 or is it #1, I'm not even sure. It has come back from warranty with the same pedals as Steves'. It's probably a good engine now. But I'm not sure I trust it.
I will say that BME has stuck with me through all of this and has given me excellent service. I like those guys. I will also say that the engine never quit in the air. Not even once, it just wouldn't start or some other weird thing on the ground. The flights were outstanding and makes me love the power of that engine. And it's very light, about 2 ozs lighter than the DA50 but I made that up with a different mount that made the flying weight about the same weight as the DA.
For the buck, the DLE55 is really the best buy and is an excellent reliable engine.
BTW.... My new plane showed up today!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My son is gonna carry it down to my hobby room tonight. The boxes all looked perfect but I'm not able to open them. However, I think of this as a quality investment. I'm saving money actually, because I'm gonna use the outer box as a coffin when I die. Save about $5000. So....really buying that plane has saved me a lot of money.
Thanks
BArry
ORIGINAL: lokiyawl
Mike,
I can see that you are going to be a bad influence on me. (grin) Glad to hear that you really like your DLE55 so far and that it has been reliable for you. Can you tell me how this engine compares to the DA 50? As to the 88'', I have seen it in person and it is an awesome looking plane. Really glad to hear that you are enjoying yours so much, hopefully you will get a late stretch of Indian Summer before winter settles in for real. I am actually in Nova Scotia by the way and headed off to fly this AM. It's overcast, about 7C but calm and that is good enough for now. (grin) Keeping the fingers nimble seems to be the hard part when it's cool, the wife made me a hand/transmitter cover out of polar fleece that helps a lot. Thanks for your input on your Yak.
James
Mike,
I can see that you are going to be a bad influence on me. (grin) Glad to hear that you really like your DLE55 so far and that it has been reliable for you. Can you tell me how this engine compares to the DA 50? As to the 88'', I have seen it in person and it is an awesome looking plane. Really glad to hear that you are enjoying yours so much, hopefully you will get a late stretch of Indian Summer before winter settles in for real. I am actually in Nova Scotia by the way and headed off to fly this AM. It's overcast, about 7C but calm and that is good enough for now. (grin) Keeping the fingers nimble seems to be the hard part when it's cool, the wife made me a hand/transmitter cover out of polar fleece that helps a lot. Thanks for your input on your Yak.
James
I have a lot of experience with 50CC gas engines. I've had an Evolution 45cc, (3) DA50R, (2) BME 58, and a DLE55. Of the 3 the DLE 55 is giving the most thrust. I'm getting basically 25lbs thrust with the DLE55 on a cannister. Using the same prop, 22x8, I'd get 22.5lbs with my DA50. The Evo 45 was about 21lbs thrust. But the king of the thrust was the BME with 29lbs solid and spikes to over 30lbs. The DLE55 has been an excellent engine for me. I had a problem with it right off and had to clean the carb. It wouldn't run over 5000 RPM. But all I did was take the carb apart and clean every small hole I could see and put it back together. Took about 15-20 minutes, then it's worked perfect ever since. I'm getting about 7020 RPM and 25lbs thrust. I like the engine very much. The DA50s are excellent engine. Everyone has started easy and been stone reliable. They are a workhorse and an excellent choice. At my elevation they are just a little weak though for the new ''mammoth'' 50CC planes like this Yak. Mine weighed 17lbs 9ozs which is really pretty good but a DA 50 would be sluggish. If I ever assemble another one I'm gonna use the DLE55. I think it would fly fine. My experience witht the BME58 was LOVE/HATE. It is an awesome engine and a super powerhouse. It pulled my 88'' around very VERY nicely. The best 50CC combo I've ever flew but I only got 5 flights out of the first one (the back of the engine cracked and blew out) I sent it in for warranty and ordered a 2nd one. The 2nd one flew 5 flights and then the reed pedals broke on it and it wouldn't run. I sent it in for warranty and got the first one back. I flew if for 5 flights and then it just wouldn't start again. I tried everything I could think of but I just couldn't get it to start. I sent it in for warranty and mounted the 2nd engine in the plane. I flew it for 7 flights and it broke the reed pedals again. I then gave up on it. I gave it to my good friend Steve. I gave him a new (different material) set of reeds and he has had good luck with it since. I still have engine #2 or is it #1, I'm not even sure. It has come back from warranty with the same pedals as Steves'. It's probably a good engine now. But I'm not sure I trust it.
I will say that BME has stuck with me through all of this and has given me excellent service. I like those guys. I will also say that the engine never quit in the air. Not even once, it just wouldn't start or some other weird thing on the ground. The flights were outstanding and makes me love the power of that engine. And it's very light, about 2 ozs lighter than the DA50 but I made that up with a different mount that made the flying weight about the same weight as the DA.
For the buck, the DLE55 is really the best buy and is an excellent reliable engine.
BTW.... My new plane showed up today!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My son is gonna carry it down to my hobby room tonight. The boxes all looked perfect but I'm not able to open them. However, I think of this as a quality investment. I'm saving money actually, because I'm gonna use the outer box as a coffin when I die. Save about $5000. So....really buying that plane has saved me a lot of money.
Thanks
BArry
10-24-2009, 12:05 AM
#8852
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
With the exception of the BME 58, I ran all the engines with the 22-8 for comparison purposes. The BME I used a 23-8. On the EVO I later ended up going down to a 21-8 to get the best performance....21+lbs. When I go to a 23-8 on my DAs I get less thrust. I might be able to pull a 23-8 on the DLE55 but I'm only getting 7020 RPM on a 22-8 now. On the BME, it pulled the 23-8 about 7400 RPM I think. So while I didn't put every conceiveable prop on every engine I do have enough experience to make a decent comparison. I'm always looking for better combos and try them when I think appropriate. I think almost anybody would tell you that a 22-8 is the best prop for any 50cc engine. Maybe on pipes and lower elevations you can use a 23-8 but for me a 22-8 works best. Now that I think about it I did some testing with a DA50 with a KS tuned pipe in an Aeroworks Yak. I only flew it one time and gave the plane away....but I did several thrust tests on the ground and I could spin the prop about 7500 RPM (22-8) and I think I was getting about 25lbs thurst. The guy that has it now has tried a 23-8 but thrust dropped a bit.
Anyways....nothing real scientific about my limited testing. But what I post is factual from personal experience. Nothing more and nothing less.
I still say the BME has a lot of problems, the DAs are some of the best running and trouble free engines out there and the DLE55 is clearly the best bang for the buck. And it will certainly out perform the DA on equal footing. In fact I think DA has been left in the dust on their 50CC engine. I wish they would punch their's out to a 58CC and give us power with some of that legendary quality and reliability. Now that would be an engine I'd buy. My guess is they are not going to sit idleally by and watch there sales go to DLE. I'll bet they come out with a new 50CC class engine within the year. They better....I hope.
Thanks
Barry
10-24-2009, 11:39 AM
#8856
RE: Extreme Flight 88
Well it was this morning or never. Our weather here has been just crappy. Overcast, rain, and wind. Today was the only window for the next week or more (actually next weekend is looking good on the 10 day forecast, we'll see). I just got back. The first couple flights were ok but after that the wind was flying the plane. It got windy. My DL-50 is sure running great. It's still a tad rich but I'm very close to an optimal tune (just changed to Stihl Ultra 50:1). I'm getting almost 7400 on a Xoar 22x8 beech. Little leaner on the high and it will be right at 7400 steady...possibly a little better. The low RPM's still 4-cycle a little higher on the throttle than I think it should. Ballistic power no doubt.
Hey Barry can you please take some pic's of that Yak and share them with us? It's ok, nobody here will know it's big brother 110.
Edit: I re-checked my CG. Much to my amazement, I'm at the back of the yellow stripe, which is almost exactly on the center of wing tube. This is 6 3/4". I thought my CG was totally aft but it's right at the recommended starting point. All this time I was thinking that I had to move my batt's to the engine box. Now I can experiment with moving it back. It does everything pretty well at this CG. hmmm.
Hey Barry can you please take some pic's of that Yak and share them with us? It's ok, nobody here will know it's big brother 110.
Edit: I re-checked my CG. Much to my amazement, I'm at the back of the yellow stripe, which is almost exactly on the center of wing tube. This is 6 3/4". I thought my CG was totally aft but it's right at the recommended starting point. All this time I was thinking that I had to move my batt's to the engine box. Now I can experiment with moving it back. It does everything pretty well at this CG. hmmm.
10-24-2009, 04:53 PM
#8857
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
Hey Barry can you please take some pic's of that Yak and share them with us? It's ok, nobody here will know it's big brother 110.
Hey Barry can you please take some pic's of that Yak and share them with us? It's ok, nobody here will know it's big brother 110.
Some pictures
10-24-2009, 05:43 PM
#8861
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
Barry,
You must be on cloud nine, that is just gorgeous. Thanks for adding the keyboard for scale..it's hard to believe how huge just the rudder is! What kind of power on you going to put in this one? Congratulations and let us know how the build goes.
James
You must be on cloud nine, that is just gorgeous. Thanks for adding the keyboard for scale..it's hard to believe how huge just the rudder is! What kind of power on you going to put in this one? Congratulations and let us know how the build goes.
James
It looks like my Yak only bigger!
10-25-2009, 05:33 PM
#8866
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
10-25-2009, 05:38 PM
#8867
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise
10-25-2009, 05:57 PM
#8868
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
Nice color scheme Archie.I'm liking that one more and mors. Very refreshing look.
In a couple of those pictures, you are very tail down in what looks like a landing approach. Are you just doing that or is your CG quite a bit back that causes the "tail heavy" landings?
Thanks
Barry
10-25-2009, 07:08 PM
#8869
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
ORIGINAL: eddiec28
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise
10-25-2009, 07:17 PM
#8870
RE: Extreme Flight 88
Do you mean it hits your spark plug CAP? My DL-50 fits in the perfectly and the engine sticks out of the cowling more than most people. I wanted the prop away from the cowling.
Man I had a close call with my Yak today. I was doing rolling harriers and I sort of got out of sync with the sticks so I tried to bail out. It ended up snapping while I was trying to pull up away from the ground. I kept fighting it with ailerons to keep the wings level (and lots of throttle) and I saved it from a bad pan cake. Phew. A buddy was there right next to me and had to get his breath after that. I would have been BUMMED !!!
Man I had a close call with my Yak today. I was doing rolling harriers and I sort of got out of sync with the sticks so I tried to bail out. It ended up snapping while I was trying to pull up away from the ground. I kept fighting it with ailerons to keep the wings level (and lots of throttle) and I saved it from a bad pan cake. Phew. A buddy was there right next to me and had to get his breath after that. I would have been BUMMED !!!
10-25-2009, 07:48 PM
#8872
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
I meant the spark plug cap
The da does fit but the cowl
is not in the center.from the top of
the cowl to the engine is 3 inches
and the bottom is 3.5 inches
is this the norm
The da does fit but the cowl
is not in the center.from the top of
the cowl to the engine is 3 inches
and the bottom is 3.5 inches
is this the norm
10-25-2009, 07:51 PM
#8873
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
Hey Guys, I'm baaaaaaaaccccck!
Got back from 5 months in Colorado 2 weeks ago and got the 88 Yak out for one test day then off to Huckfest! What a blast! Man Charles (cjcycles) can fly his Yak with the best! I've been collecting crashed parts from my friends and now have enough to Franken-build a complete 88 Yak. I figure since it was almost free I'm sticking a DA85 on it and flying it like I stole it!
I asked Chris Hinson to fly my Yak to see if it was set up ok. Chris flew it like it was his own and my jaw was on the ground. Evidently I don't need to work on the plane, I need to work on my thumbs!
Gatorb8
Got back from 5 months in Colorado 2 weeks ago and got the 88 Yak out for one test day then off to Huckfest! What a blast! Man Charles (cjcycles) can fly his Yak with the best! I've been collecting crashed parts from my friends and now have enough to Franken-build a complete 88 Yak. I figure since it was almost free I'm sticking a DA85 on it and flying it like I stole it!
I asked Chris Hinson to fly my Yak to see if it was set up ok. Chris flew it like it was his own and my jaw was on the ground. Evidently I don't need to work on the plane, I need to work on my thumbs!
Gatorb8
10-25-2009, 07:52 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 88
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
Nice color scheme Archie.
I'm liking that one more and mors. Very refreshing look.
In a couple of those pictures, you are very tail down in what looks like a landing approach. Are you just doing that or is your CG quite a bit back that causes the ''tail heavy'' landings?
Thanks
Barry
Nice color scheme Archie.I'm liking that one more and mors. Very refreshing look.
In a couple of those pictures, you are very tail down in what looks like a landing approach. Are you just doing that or is your CG quite a bit back that causes the ''tail heavy'' landings?
Thanks
Barry
No, it's not tail heavy...I was just playing around. Only like one or two of those shots were on landing approach. This thing lands soooooooooo nice!
10-25-2009, 08:55 PM
#8875
RE: Extreme Flight 88
ORIGINAL: eddiec28
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise
Hi
I have noticed that no one out there
had cut the bottom of the cowl for the
engine head.My question is when installing
the cowl,do you have to raise the cowl so the engine
fits inside.I have got a da50 if i center my cowl
it will touch the spark plug lead
I meant to say lower the cowl not raise