Bob101

Why is AeroWorks afraid of the truth? I had a bad kit from them last year and went thru several months of total BS from them and every post I made in their forum with pictures asking what to do/advice etc.. was deleted. Finally I had enough when I went to put wing on the tube (sheeted foam wing) and the tube wouldn't reach the end so I took out my bore scope and you could see the plywood piece that the tube is supposed to go thru was in the way. Waited and waited and called and called and never got an answer. Posted in the aeroworks forum and it was deleted.

That was a year ago and pretty much forgot about it. Haven't been on the forums here much because I got ticked at them deleting my post, and I got tons of PM's from other people saying post in the general giant scale section so AeroWorks can't delete them as well because they had deleted theirs too.....notice a pattern.

So I log back on and I had a few PM's from people with the same kit who had seen my post in the general section with pics to prove the kit was faulty (it was locked when Mark Dennis asked the mod to lock it for him since he didn't have permission - he told me this over the phone).

So I get all these PM's about the same kit and I look and there's one open thread in the AeroWorks forum and I post a simple "I thought I was the only person having problems with this kit as this is what you told me and here I got a bunch of PM's saying otherwise now".

Guess what, deleted this morning.

I used to use RCUniverse as a research tool before buying, just a heads up about how many times you might only get the 1/2 truth.

Good luck guys.

Oh yeah I know there will be 1-2 that will come on here and bash me, but everytime I have posted about AeroWorks and how disappointed I have been I get tons of PM's from people saying the SAME EXACT THING and that their post were deleted and it's better to just forget them and move on. Nice.

dbcaster

Bob,
You should know by now you can only post positive reviews on planes or kits From reading any review it would seem that every kit or plane is the best one ever built. How many negative reviews have you actually read?

theradioflyer

It sounds like AeroWorks has a little too much pull in RCU. I looked into buying an AeroWorks Edge 540 awhile back and I'm glad that I went with a different company from the sound of it. Customer service has to be great in this business, there are many other companies out there to go with. Sorry you had problems, but I'm glad I saw this. Put another do not from company on this list.

Whirlyspud

Sad but true.

Mike

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Tell ya what. Copy and paste all those other PM's from the other individuals in a post to add a little weight to the story. Go from there. I get hammered with this kind of stuff all the time if I post something that states that so and so said what I said. Show us the number of so and so's to lend some weight to the allegation.

The problem in going to war with a manufacturer or their product is that you need the proof to support the charge. There are many that have not had a problem, which ends up a "my vote cancels your vote" kind of thing. As for reviews, I wrote one once that had a few negatives in it with one manufacturer. It was never seen again. I write reviews for another manufacturer where I can say whatever I want as long as I can back it up with facts and pictures with no problems, so the negative review thing goes both ways.

Sound reasonable?

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I am going to jump in here. First off I have seen no verifiable information on this claim being posted so at ths point it's borderline acceptable and can easily considered manufacturer bashing. Second, there are plenty of not so good reviews in our review section. I know of one that is not posted yet but it will not be pretty and all the stock stuff and recommended items were used.

Third, AW has no pull here, plain and simple. AW's support forum and how it is handled is up to them but they have guidelines like we do in the open forums. If you feel that a thread was unjustly removed you can always talk to a Senior Moderator, A Community moderator or Forum Manager and state your case.

For the time being I will let this stand. I will need to see these PM's posted in this thread it it will also be removed. The PM's must included both Aw's responses as well as yours. If this does not happen this thread will disappear as well because it is hearsay with no verifiable facts

blueline

My Feedback: (6)

Great thread Bob, its unfortunate that A-------S feels the wecan't handle the truth. Shame on A--------s for what they're doing, apparently they can't do business the legit way. I'm in the market for a giant scale Katana or Extra and waslikely going to give them my money. I'm fortunate to have read your post before the mod's pull your thread, again. Shame on whomever is pulling the posts and shame on Aeroworks!!! Forums by their very nature are places for people to interact and comunicate positive, negative and helpful comments. Instead of a company having threads/posts removed because its detrimental to their bottom line, wouldn't you think they'd be more worried about constructing(contracting out) better products.
Thank you Bob for ENLIGHTENING me and I hope many, many others on poor business practices and more importantly, poor character! I'll spend alot of my money elsewhere with a company that has integrity.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

So to keep the playing field level, lets look back at the first run of the AeroWorks 50cc Yak. I had one of the very first ones and was the second person to have the covering lift which promptly destroyed the wing. I was able to almost get it back to the runway but after what seemed like 5 minutes of fighting it, it finally won. Other had the gears being ipped out because of an improper landing gear block setup and all of thse were made good on. Some even paid to have stuff overnighted then went public on here and slammed them for the shipping cost without mentioning that they lived in the South east of Florida and the plae was coming from the North West of the US. Just a little digging found out that untruth

In my case, after a nice level headed long chat with the owner, it was determined that I would be sent a new plane out of the 3rd batch since the second one was already sold,out. Welll guess what, everyone, whether they had the problem or not got what was needed to make things right without so much as a charge and all but a few got emails suggesting they not fly until the repair kits arrived. Thise kits included clear covering for all leading edges, gear plates (2 pieces of plywood precut to fit and hairpins for the anti-rotation dowels.

My second one has now over 100 flights on it and just last weekend I hit a pot hole on the turn around after landing which promptly jumped the plane about a foot into the air on a sideways angle, the gear stayed attached, I've had no problems with the covering and the hairpins are doing there job. The first one took me about 6 hours to assemble and the second one took about 8 hours because doing the leading eges and making them look good was a bit time consuming. 8 hours is still not bad for an ARF and I used everything in the box both times and not once did I have to go anywhere to buy something short of the servos and RX and batteries.

So my point to all of this. It works both ways, you can have the greatest plane out there and someone or two or three can get a bad one and all of a sudden all of them are bad.

So it's up to you what you do, you can say what you would like about posts being removed. Hearsay does not cut it and that will get a post removed quick, actual proof and the post remains. I know when I hear something bad about something I am considering I do a bit more digging, I do not take just one or two or even three persons word for it. I search the forums and not just RCU. I google a lot as well.

So now, so me some actual proof of all of this.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Mark Dennis,

I know you'll be reading this eventually. I'd like to do a review of your giant scale Katana if it suits a 100cc class engine. I'll buy the plane. You want to talk via a pm or two, or direct e-mail? You know I'll be straight up in the review and grant the same consideration that I give others in discussing any issues with the manufacturers prior to releasing a review. I don't do videos because I don't have a video camera, and won't run out to spend a lot of $$ to buy one.

I was considering getting one from another source but since this came up it might be fun to go with something of yours.

To all that are jumping in to slam a manufacturer based on one e-mail. That ain't right and you know it. If you have no proof, then you have nothing, and one negative post is not even close enough to get me excited.

theradioflyer

Babbagates, I have read many thread on this site both in favor of or against certain products. Why would you pull a thread for bashing a product. This is an open discussion and every member should have the chance to review and comment, including the AW people. I suppose opinions aren't welcome on RCU?

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I think it's the way it started. There were a lot of allegations that do not have ANY substantiation at this point. The way the first post is written makes it impossible to confirm or deny the statements made within it. The post where a person jumps in doing the name calling and rejecting out of hand any future purchases based on an unsubstantiated original post starts a trend for all the wrong reasons, and can hurt a business simply because another person has an issue for any reason, or no reason. Someone could say that puke tasted good and some fool would run out and agree.

No one here knows the experience or ability level of the original poster, only that they are angry. Is there anything to fault? Whose fault if there is? The manufacturer? The poster? Did the poster buy new, or obtain second or third hand? If used, did the original buyer already obtain any new replacement parts and not pass them on? Did the poster, through his own actions, mess something up and expect the manufactrurer to pay for it? What do we REALLY know? Truthfully, nothing at all.

As I said, there are far, far too many possibilities to point a finger or make an informed decision at this point. That's why I offered to do a review. To keep it balanced I would pay for the product. All I do is build, take pictures, fly, and report. Confirm or deny, I don't owe anybody.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Ok, would you accept my opinion on hearsay alone?

You are all taking this out of context, sit back and careful check on the history of the very first post, it's out there but NOT on RCU. I did, that is why I am asking for the proof to be posted. It's that simple

Bashing in any form is against the rules plain and simple, those rules are agreed upon when you signed up. We will always leave a post up with good or bad info as long as proof is provided and before you say well I saw no proof, we cannot catch every thread. with the amopunt of posts per minute and per 24 hours it would be a full time job.

I invite anyone that has anything to say about this to volunteer for a mod job. It will open your eyes.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I don't tell this story on a public forum too often. It's not usually well received by the membership on RCU.

I fancy myself a pretty good kit builder. I'll not go into an extended resume of my skills. Suffice it to say--I've been building kits for 9yrs and I've got almost 35 under my belt now. I think that about sums up my building ability. This particular kit was somewhere around kit #20 at the time I built it. I'd sheeted wings and built plenty of stick, ply and foam airplanes. Basic builders kit.

I bought an Aeroworks 25% Edge 540 about 4yrs ago. I built the fuse on a jig over the plans. I built it straight. The foam turtledeck and hatch pieces were not the right size to fit the fuse. I don't know who cut these pieces out of the cores. I don't know who packed that box, but the foam pieces needed a LOT of work to get them shaped and sanded to fit the fuse correctly.

The root ribs were drilled in the wrong spots. There is a phenolic tube in the wing. The wing has 1 lite-ply rib on the root and it has a single hole in the middle to fit up against the wing root. This gets glued on AFTER you remove the wings from the bagger. You sand the root to get rid of any balsa sheeting. Then you glue that ply rib onto the root and it should line up with the phenolic in the foam core.

How about--for a $275 (25%) kit--the parts line up and fit right? How about, for $275, the foam pieces are cut to the right size and the balsa sheeting is the right length? How about, the phenolic and the root ribs line up without having to plug the factory holes and drill a new hole in the right spot?

I called AW. I was nice. They were rude. I sent emails. They went unanswered. I got in my truck and drove down there with a fuse stuck to a jig and all the parts, wings and blueprints for the kit.

I went home cussing mad and swore I'd never buy another AW kit EVER again. They were LESS than helpful and treated me like I was an idiot. "Just fix it--you've come this far" I think thats about how it went.

Never again. Never. A LOCAL flyer buys your kit--and when the parts don't line up or fit right--you treat me like an idiot and laugh at me? Tell me to figure it out? No thanks. I told everyone at the field too. Took the fuse and prints and parts. Showed the guys. Had some other guys come over to my shop and showed them too. I didn't screw up. The parts weren't cut right and the balsa sheeting in the box wasn't the right size either. Rediculous customer support. Pathetic. Never again.

Delete it if you want. I'm done here and will not return. All I've posted, was the facts from my point of view.

theradioflyer

I can only imagine[:@] At the same right I would hope that my opinion should be considered and left to open discussion. We are here to discuss many things including products and service. Instead of pulling threads, let the manufacture defend themselves, not delete the thread. I've seen it go both ways and sometimes you have a disgruntled customer rant for his own satisfaction. Why delete it, let the members make up there own mind,right or wrong.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Again, bashing is not within the rules. My job is to follow those rules. I am leaving it open because I understand but I cannot say what another mod might do. There are other reasons I cannot go into so please do not ask

I am a fair person, I have been known to jump a bit too quickly and it now looks like I may have here as well. So I'll say it like this

If it stays within the rules, it will remain, if it gets to be a bash fest, posts will get removed, if it gets to the point where I spend all my free time cleaning out this thread then more drastic measures will be taken beyond removing the thread

Fair enough????

theradioflyer

Seems threatening, why? Politics, money, sponsorship?

dbcaster

Bubba,
Will the up coming review that you speak of be posted in this forum? I would be interested in seeing it, thanks.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

That was not me, that was SilverSurfer

You totally ignored the point where I said I may have jumped the gun. Those suggestion are not threatening, they are the procedures we follow, I just made them public

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Let me jump in here.

I can tell you why certain threads get deleted and others don't

Let's say someone has a problem with a Kraft Radio (I purposely picked a defunct MFG so as not to pick on anyone)

If they post, "I think I got ripped off!" And then they tell how they bought a radio and two of the servos were burnt out and they called Kraft and the guy hung up on them, etc, etc.

Ok, maybe the poster called and threatend to burn the place down if they didn't get satisfaction - Hell, I'd have hung up on him too. BUT... That post would probably stay.

If the same guy posted, "Don't buy from Kraft!" I would delete it in a heartbeat. Why? Because the poster is trying to start a boycott, and for all I know maybe it's the POSTER who is the jerk here.

You have to take RCU into consideration. Let's face it, we ALL know someone who is an unreasonable jerk. How do we know that the poster is not one of them? And if he IS, then RCU catches hell for letting this guy badmouth a good manufacturer. So WE get stuck in the middle.

RCU gives you a place to exchange ideas and yes, even vent your frustrations. But we're not a public whipping post.

If the poster has a reasonable complaint, and expresses it in a REASONABLE manor, he will get a LOT more respect than if he says, "Dont by from dis guycause hees a jurk"

Now I am NOT saying that you said anything like that, but if anything degrading, insulting, or vulgar is said, don't be surprised if the post disappears.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I wasn't gonna come back here. [:@]

Bubbagates has a job to do. He will follow the printed rules for RCU. He has the freedom to give and take with regard to moderating. We all do. Common sense and human interpretation--judgement.

Say what you gotta say---BUT post PMs, emails and factual data that YOU have. Just don't spread RUMOR.

I told a true story of my experiences that happened 4yrs ago, and thats probably the LAST time I'll ever say it out loud on this public forum.

Go do a search in the ARF forum for CMP or Nitromodels or Nitroplanes or Raidentech. Those people get torn apart every couple months--and they advertise on RCU--and the members are allowed to rip them apart for poor product support and generally poor customer service policies.

theradioflyer

I feel a bit better about RCU now. We've all had bad experiences and wish we had heard about it before it happened. I use RCU and it's members to research next projects. I used to go with once bitten, twice shy but now with these kind of sites I can greatly reduce the amount of bites. NM came to mind with the discussion but I didn't want to bring them up. Many others have screamed much harder about them than Bob did about AW. I personally would NEVER, EVER buy a Lanier kit again do to quality, on the other hand I just picked up 3D hobbyshops Extra 300 SHP and I would recommend it to anyone who flies, do to amazing flight performance and excellent customer service. Just my opinion and also hearsay.

dbcaster

Bubba,
In post #6 you stated that there are plenty of negative reviews and one coming that will not be pretty. If that wasn't your post I stand corrected.

dbcaster

This is the post I was referring to.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I thought you were refering to Silversurfer offering AW to do a review, sorry

I did not do the actual review but I am good friends with the person doing it and shoot all of his video ( so if know who I mean and have seen any of his videos, then you know who did the review asnd you are then also well aware of his piloting skills) plus I am actually putting together the HTML we do here on RCU for him All I'll say is he is a good builder and knows what to do and I personally witnessed really bad issues that made me change my mind on buying this plane whle we were getting ready to shoot the video

There will be picks as well as video and that's all I wish to say. You will read it in the review and what had to be done to fix it.

The point is even though the plane was a real POS, he did the writeup tactfully and backed it up with pics and video as well as a way that works to fix it and that means everything. It is left to the reader to decide to buy it or not

As to when the review will be posted, that is up to RCU. I will have it all the HTML completed this week and he should submit it shortly thereafter. I'm only helping him out with his first one, after this one he is on his own. He justdoes not know how to do the technical (HTML code) side of the review

I know I am not giving out much info, but there is a teaser video that I did posted on that plane that is going to be part of the review. Here it is

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5788814

dbcaster

Bubba,
That is good to hear that it will be an honest review. I know it is hard to review a plane when everyone has a different idea of what is right or wrong as far as flying.