Wildstyle

makes sense to cut another slot. louvers for the cansister look like a good idea as well

BaldEagel

I think the Louvres tidy up the underside quite nicely, they are readily avaliable in the UK from ProBuild, nice company to do buisness with as well.

Mike

BaldEagel

UC bolts in the manual say 4mm, mine are supplied as 6mm, so the T nuts need a 7.2mm hole for clearance, continued inprovement?

EDIT: Just realised the 6mm bolts are for the engine stand offs, so why don't I have any 4mm bolts and T nuts?

Mike

BaldEagel

I am fitting a carbon stearable tail wheel to my 2.1 and have groved the bottom of it to take the wire rudder hinge post, I have installed T nust inside the fus through the fin post opening, this way the wire will not protude through the top of the rudder and the horrible mess they made of the top of the fin can be made good, this enables me to remove the rudder if I so wish by just loosening the tail wheel and popping out the hinge post.

Mike

BaldEagel

Matt

When I saw your picutre of the front of your 2.1 I thought he's damaged it already with those marks on the top of the fus, but mine is just the same and its very rough around the front of the opening, looks like they need to tidy up the mould around that area.

Mike

EDIT: My pics are a bit blurred, I will try to up load some better ones once my camera batteries have re-charged.
EDIT: Better pics uploaded

frisconick

Mine also looks very rough where the chin cowl meets the front of the fuse. Not too bad if you don't get too close. Still hoping to do the maiden this weekend. Will let you all know how it goes.

Nick

BaldEagel

Good luck Nick hope all goes well, let us know. I will be flying my Composite Edge for the first time this week end as well weather premitting of course, wish me luck.

Mike

frisconick

Finally got the maiden flight behind me yesterday (Friday). All went well. Very little trim needed once airborne; a few clicks of down and a click or two of right aileron. It could be because neither elevator nor ailerons were perfectly matched with each other. CG seems OK so far at the aft end of the Pattern range. It needs a little more up thrust at the engine. Controls are very sensitive. Low rates are way more than needed on the first few flights. Rolls are pretty fast on low; didn't have the guts to try high, yet. Quite a bit of coupling between rudder and elevator on KEs; pulls to the wheels, so I'm mixing in some up with rudder. A few minor adjustments and more testing later today (I hope). Three flights and counting; no scratches!! We did video it, but pretty boring as most first flights are; not very good quality, either. Will post more if I get out today.

Nick

BaldEagel

Nick

Why are your ailerons and elevator not matched to each other? is this a Tx problem or the set up with the control rods? just interested in the reason.

Anyone thought why this aircraft needs up thrust, is it the longitudinal diahedrall thats out? I will check mine to see what the relationship is, on first thoughts it would seem the tail has a negative pitch in relations to the wing and thrust line and therefore needs up thrust to get the wing to a possitive incidence. Any other thoughts?

Mike

BaldEagel

Just checked my incidence settings and:

Tail at Odeg
Wing at -0.5deg
Firewall at -2.5degs

I have not attached the ply firewalls as yet but this would tend to indicate that I need 2.5 too 3.0degs of down thrust to get a 0:0 line up on the wing or even more for some down thust to give a positive incidence to the wing. Anyone got any incidence readings on one that is up and flying correctly?

Mike

frisconick

Ailerons and elevators not matching were because of slight differences in xmtr sub-trim and the position of the servo arms on the servos. Not sure how many splines are on JR servos, but you can't always get the arm exactly where you need it. Not a big deal. I believe the up-thrust is needed because the thrust line is above the wing line which creates a moment-arm of a couple of inches that will tend to pull the plane toward the gear. Mine also had down thrust built into the FW, so I had to add much more than one degree of up. I think I stated exactly how much in an earlier post. Also, I believe one of the horizontal stabs was not perfectly aligned with the other as if the jig was wrong when drilling the anti-rotation holes (e.g., right stab = 0.0 degrees, left stab = -0.5 degrees; or something like that). You should really measure both wings and both stabs with the same side of the meter always facing forward (so you have to be on the same side of the plane for all meter readings). I'll put the wings on and measure all incidences again this week and post. I have not changed the up-thrust yet. I want to do some more flying before making that change.

Nick

frisconick

OK. Here we go.... I took four measurements: two with a Hangar 9 digital incidence meter and two with a Robart mechanical gauge. The concensus is that both wings are at 0.0 degrees. The prop is at +.75 to +1.0. The stabs are not even; port side appears to be down by about .25 degrees while the starboard is up about .25. This would account for the right aileron trim needed for level flight. Not far off, but for a jig drilled plane, it should be accurate to a gnat's a**, no ??? I guess I'll remove the stabs and tweek them a bit before I make any other drastic changes. Will let you all know how it flies after the tune-up !!

Nick

BaldEagel

Nick

It can't be the thrust line above the wing that causes it to have up thrust, or a high wing monoplane would have all sorts of interactions, and an Edge would require no downthrust as everything is in line.
I willl check the incidence's on mine on both sides, unfortunatly my office/hanger is only big enough to rig one side at a time, when the weather gets better and I can get outdoors I will check it all.
Thinking about the stab incidence and the alterations that will be needed, I think if you can get hold of some carbon tube that fits the incidence pin epoxying that into the fus will give a good strong point, perhaps take the tube all the way through the fus to the other side, so that both pins are in the same tube, only thought of that whilst I was typing, sound a good idea?

Mike

frisconick

Good idea, IF the pins in each stab are in exactly the same place. I'll probably just file the holes enough to get the movement needed, then figur out how to keep them there.

Thanks,
Nick

mats51

Yes, the blemish on mine was there from start.

Interesting this with the up-thrust needed. As I posted earlier, I needed more side and up-thrust when I started to trim the plane.

I like the idea with hiding the hinge pin under the tail wheel bracket. Good stuff.

frisconick

I sent an email to my rep, Bob Shapiro concerning the stab incidence problem; no response. So I sent a similar email to Andy Kane (another CompARF rep recommended by guys I fly with). Andy responded with a phone call and email within a couple of hours. Now that's good service !! He stated that they did in fact have a problem in the early models of the stab incidences being off and agreed that it would be a relatively easy fix. I'll try to do that tonight and test again this weekend. I don't mind fixing things that aren't quite right, yet. Just tell me the truth about engineering/manufacturing problems so I know I'm not imagining things !!

Thanks,
Nick

BaldEagel

Unlike most of you chaps I am not in love with Composite ARF or my 2.1, I have e-mailed them concerning the incorrect side thrust information in the manual, with no reply, the front of my 2.1 looks as though its already been in an accident and been repaired, the hole in the top of my rudder looks as though they drilled it three times and got it wrong, and having no side thrust on the firewall means that you will be trying to form a wedge on a flat surface, which in the worse case try's to distort the engine crankcase or puts a shear load on the fixing bolts, I am trying to source some 3.5deg wedge washers to get over that one. The so called Phenolic horns are so suspect it would be folly to use them, not only that but Phenolic is a process not a material, they look like old fashioned Bakalite. There are so many areas that they could inprove, they say our feedback is inportant too them and then ignor you. Oh yes one other issue they will not supply me with the DA50 purpose designed manifold without the MTW75 Cannister which I already have.

So far totally unimpressed.

Mike

mats51

I am sorry to hear how you feel. I do not know who your rep is. I get the impression that some reps are part of a hobby retail company and others a one-man band with this at best as a sideline to their normal day job. I guess that some non-proffesionals therefore just does not want to know about any trouble at all.

I think it is rude not to get a respons at all (as long as you have not been rude to them in the first place of course). Even a "sorry mate, can't help you" is better than nothing in my book.

I am sure you already have realised that the the little roll of narrow white film is there to offer the option to tape over the central join line between the fuselage halves and could be used to cover the hole in the rudder as well.

Have you tried to contact MTW direct? It is otherwise a doddle to make your own system. There are kits about that fits together like Lego and just silver solder it together when happy with the routing.

Lastly a tip to everyone. My plane showed some play in the wing and stab tubes. This play makes wing and stab rattle when the engine torque oscillates into and along the fuselage. This is very noticable at certain, typically low, revs. This will over time increase the play in the tubes even further and the wing and stab making bad marks into the fuselage sides and could eventually make holes in the sides from all the rubbing.

I cut 1-2" wide very thin Oracover self-adhesive trim material strips and wound these around the tubes (no wrinkles!!), just enough to get a good tight fit of the tubes in the fuselage, wing and stab tubes. Job sorted.

Don't know how long these film strips will last, but think that when they get worn I'll just replace the film. Cheap and quick. Others may have other ideas or ways on how to solve this.

Mats

BaldEagel

ORIGINAL: mats51

I am sorry to hear how you feel. I do not know who your rep is. I get the impression that some reps are part of a hobby retail company and others a one-man band with this at best as a sideline to their normal day job. I guess that some non-proffesionals therefore just does not want to know about any trouble at all.

I think you are correct some people just don't care about the customer.

I think it is rude not to get a respons at all (as long as you have not been rude to them in the first place of course). Even a "sorry mate, can't help you" is better than nothing in my book.

Even if I was rude which I was not a responce to say thank you for pointing out a mistake in our manual would have been polite

I am sure you already have realised that the the little roll of narrow white film is there to offer the option to tape over the central join line between the fuselage halves and could be used to cover the hole in the rudder as well.

No little roll of white tape in my box.

Have you tried to contact MTW direct? It is otherwise a doddle to make your own system. There are kits about that fits together like Lego and just silver solder it together when happy with the routing.

MTW will not supply another manufactures specially made product. Have made plenty before, but it would be nice to get a part that is supposed to be available without having to buy some other expensive part with it.

Lastly a tip to everyone. My plane showed some play in the wing and stab tubes. This play makes wing and stab rattle when the engine torque oscillates into and along the fuselage. This is very noticable at certain, typically low, revs. This will over time increase the play in the tubes even further and the wing and stab making bad marks into the fuselage sides and could eventually make holes in the sides from all the rubbing.
I cut 1-2" wide very thin Oracover self-adhesive trim material strips and wound these around the tubes (no wrinkles!!), just enough to get a good tight fit of the tubes in the fuselage, wing and stab tubes. Job sorted.
Don't know how long these film strips will last, but think that when they get worn I'll just replace the film. Cheap and quick. Others may have other ideas or ways on how to solve this.

Go to a fishing tackle shop and buy a carbon spray can, its used to take up the play on fishing rod joints.

Oh yes forgott to mention the bits rattling around in the tailplane with no way out, very anoying, as I get further into this plane I find more things wrong, the problem is I just finnished an Xtreme Composite Edge which was half the price and with fewer faults, the firewall was at the correct angle and the front of the fus was also angled to match with the spinner, its very neat.

Mike

mats51

"Go to a fishing tackle shop and buy a carbon spray can, its used to take up the play on fishing rod joints."

That sounds intriguing. Tell me some more, please. Is it a "dry" coat or how does it work?

BaldEagel

I think its a poylurathane with suspended carbon filliments, it certainly smells like a polyurathane when you spray it, it goes extreamly hard and you can sand it smooth if neccesary, I have used it on a number of my rods after years of abuse with great success, and on replacement wing tubes to bring them up too size, I think Glasgow Angling Centre stock it, they are very efficient.

Mike

mats51

Thank's for that. I will try that when what I have done so far has worn out.

Cheers
Mats

burgster

My Feedback: (2)

Received my extra the other week and am planning on starting the build soon. I just wanted to thank everyone for their posts. It will be very handy to know a lot of the pitfalls before I even start!

Thanks again,
Jeff

stgf

I have one of these to. and when i bolt my DA 50 i place and use my incidece meter, the stab is 0 degrees, wing is ,50 degrees down, and the firewall is 4 degrees down.....
Anyone else whit this problem???

BaldEagel

Everybody has had this problem, the manual is incorrect, if you look back on the forum you will see the correct dims for the offset needed to get the thrust line in the right place.

Mike