35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
11-05-2007, 10:27 AM
#1
35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
Anyone that has played competitive sports knows that winning cures everything. Apparently the same is true in RC airplanes. In an earlier thread about the H9 Extra 260 I posted some build observations that were less than flattering. I wasn't impressed with the fit of the stab tube and a couple of other little things I had my spoiled panties in a bunch about.
Well, what a difference a maiden flight makes
This is one hell of a nice flying airplane, even comparable to some of the better pattern planes I have flown!!!!!! I was very impressed by the smooth flying characteristics, the rock solid stability, and the minimal cross control coupling. Take off was smooth, climb out was solid, I needed about 3 clicks of down, but due to a brain fart added about 9 clicks of down, that made the next minute and a half interesting. After a couple of laps to get it trimmed out I was ready to try some mild aerobatics.
Inverted flight- Rolled in smooth, oops too much down elevator, release the elevator, she flies inverted hands off. Uh oh, must be tail heavy.
Slow flight- Slow her down, expecting a snap or stall cause I think I am tail heavy. Slower, slower, slower, where's the stall. Finally after just about stopping the plane the nose drops and she is flying again. Very Nice
Knife Edge- Ok, let's see if Mike M earned his paycheck and designed out the need for mixing. Rolled in while adding rudder, not bad, tucked a tiny bit to the gear but a breath of up elevator kept it on line. Let's see how powerful this rudder is with 400/oz of servo torque on it. Added rudder and power, she began to climb to a vertical line added more rudder and she started to come over the top, backed off the power while applying full rudder and she came around and finished the maneuver.
In my left ear I hear my trusty spotter say "did you just do a knife edge loop on a maiden flight"? I guess I did, I wasn't planning on it, it just happened[X(]
Snaps- Snaps start clean and stop very well. They seem to happen in slow motion and are very predictable. I think I may need more throw to make them more pronounced but they looked great.
Landing- A breeze. She slows down nicely and the main wheels kissed the ground ever so gently followed by the tail.
I didn't get to try very much 3D but I am encouraged by the first couple of flights.
To be continued.
Well, what a difference a maiden flight makes
This is one hell of a nice flying airplane, even comparable to some of the better pattern planes I have flown!!!!!! I was very impressed by the smooth flying characteristics, the rock solid stability, and the minimal cross control coupling. Take off was smooth, climb out was solid, I needed about 3 clicks of down, but due to a brain fart added about 9 clicks of down, that made the next minute and a half interesting. After a couple of laps to get it trimmed out I was ready to try some mild aerobatics.Inverted flight- Rolled in smooth, oops too much down elevator, release the elevator, she flies inverted hands off. Uh oh, must be tail heavy.
Slow flight- Slow her down, expecting a snap or stall cause I think I am tail heavy. Slower, slower, slower, where's the stall. Finally after just about stopping the plane the nose drops and she is flying again. Very Nice
Knife Edge- Ok, let's see if Mike M earned his paycheck and designed out the need for mixing. Rolled in while adding rudder, not bad, tucked a tiny bit to the gear but a breath of up elevator kept it on line. Let's see how powerful this rudder is with 400/oz of servo torque on it. Added rudder and power, she began to climb to a vertical line added more rudder and she started to come over the top, backed off the power while applying full rudder and she came around and finished the maneuver.
In my left ear I hear my trusty spotter say "did you just do a knife edge loop on a maiden flight"? I guess I did, I wasn't planning on it, it just happened[X(]
Snaps- Snaps start clean and stop very well. They seem to happen in slow motion and are very predictable. I think I may need more throw to make them more pronounced but they looked great.
Landing- A breeze. She slows down nicely and the main wheels kissed the ground ever so gently followed by the tail.
I didn't get to try very much 3D but I am encouraged by the first couple of flights.
To be continued.
11-05-2007, 10:51 AM
#2
RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
I'm glad you enjoyed the maiden. I like the way mine flies, too, but after the honeymoon phase wears off (and it will for you, too), you get frustrated with all the nit-picky little mx that you have to do (regluing joints, stiffening up the stab tube, untwisting the fuse, etc), and the covering on mine has gotten so bad that the wrinkles simply can't be gotten rid of - it's either out of shrink or out of adhesive.
Others will obviously disagree, but they don't know what I know about my plane. I just think that if they made some improvements to the fuse so it wouldn't twist so easily, improved the stab mounting method (take a look at how Aeroworks does it), built the wings stronger so they would stay together, and did a WAY better job of covering on them, they'd have a 100% success. As it stands now, I think my plane will be worn out by the first scheduled 2008 IMAC...
Others will obviously disagree, but they don't know what I know about my plane. I just think that if they made some improvements to the fuse so it wouldn't twist so easily, improved the stab mounting method (take a look at how Aeroworks does it), built the wings stronger so they would stay together, and did a WAY better job of covering on them, they'd have a 100% success. As it stands now, I think my plane will be worn out by the first scheduled 2008 IMAC...
11-05-2007, 11:18 AM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
I'll take better function over form any day... Yes, the AW QB stuff does "look" a little better, but the H9 260 flies extremely well... I had the opportunity to fly an AW 100cc Yak and 260 over the weekend... No comparison IMHO as to which airframe flies better... H9, hands down...
11-05-2007, 11:54 AM
#4
RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
Bodywerks,
I am sorry to hear that yours doesn't seem to have the structural rigidity that it needs. I sincerely hope that mine holds up better as I do not expect this airplane to be "disposable". I have gotten used to getting thousands of flights on my pattern planes, but they have always been extremely well designed and well built. I have not flown mine hard just yet, but I certainly intend to. It will mainly be used for IMAC competitions but it should still stand up to some heavy 3D work.
I was very concerned about the stab tube and will keep a close eye on it. I did epoxy the tube into the fuselage and hope that is the end of the slop back there.
I am sorry to hear that yours doesn't seem to have the structural rigidity that it needs. I sincerely hope that mine holds up better as I do not expect this airplane to be "disposable". I have gotten used to getting thousands of flights on my pattern planes, but they have always been extremely well designed and well built. I have not flown mine hard just yet, but I certainly intend to. It will mainly be used for IMAC competitions but it should still stand up to some heavy 3D work.
I was very concerned about the stab tube and will keep a close eye on it. I did epoxy the tube into the fuselage and hope that is the end of the slop back there.
11-05-2007, 02:18 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
There have been enough reports of issues with this kit that it should raise concerns with anybody standing on the sidlines and waiting to make a decision.
I am happy that it flies well, but one cannot disregard the numerous reports of issues with covering and glue traces all over the plane.
Structural rigidity issues are something that cannot be overlooked or even be in question - these planes go through so much strees during a normal 3D flight. Same goes for the stab tube issue - something already resolved by most other manufacturers quite a while ago.
My decision is made to pass on this kit and go with something very similar.
I am picking between the Pacific Plane 35% Extra 260 and the SD HP 35% Extra 260. People might say they do not fly as well, but I care more about having something I can rely on for a season or two...
ORIGINAL: AAbdu
Bodywerks,
I am sorry to hear that yours doesn't seem to have the structural rigidity that it needs. I sincerely hope that mine holds up better as I do not expect this airplane to be "disposable". I have gotten used to getting thousands of flights on my pattern planes, but they have always been extremely well designed and well built. I have not flown mine hard just yet, but I certainly intend to. It will mainly be used for IMAC competitions but it should still stand up to some heavy 3D work.
I was very concerned about the stab tube and will keep a close eye on it. I did epoxy the tube into the fuselage and hope that is the end of the slop back there.
Bodywerks,
I am sorry to hear that yours doesn't seem to have the structural rigidity that it needs. I sincerely hope that mine holds up better as I do not expect this airplane to be "disposable". I have gotten used to getting thousands of flights on my pattern planes, but they have always been extremely well designed and well built. I have not flown mine hard just yet, but I certainly intend to. It will mainly be used for IMAC competitions but it should still stand up to some heavy 3D work.
I was very concerned about the stab tube and will keep a close eye on it. I did epoxy the tube into the fuselage and hope that is the end of the slop back there.
11-05-2007, 02:46 PM
#8
RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
I agree that this is a better flying plane out of the box than pretty much any other 35% plane available.
Regardless, I think H9 has the opportunity to have a killer plane, if they would avoid saving pennies to increase profits:
1. The cowl fit, flimsiness, and attachment method needs to be improved - as it stands, the cowl is the loudest thing on my plane, louder than the engine!
2. The wings are light, but at a price. I had structural issues with my first set, and I know of two others that had similar problems - I'd bet we are not the only three. Thicker spars(they are currently only about 3/16" thick), higher quality balsa sheeting, and more/better glue needs to be used.
3. The fuse needs gusseting and cross-bracing in key areas, at least. You should not be able to twist a fuse this big by hand, period.
4. I already mentioned the stab attach method being a joke...
5. Covering material and application quality currently gets a "C" grade from me. Cut-lines of the trim are not very good. Overlapping methods, like on the wingtips, aileron tips, and stab and rudder tip is not how a pro does it. The glue all over the place is a no-brainer - at the very least, that should never bee seen again on future productions.
6. The idea of a pre-assembled tank is great, but it's worthless if practically everybody has to dissasemble it and fish pieces of plastic out of the tank and then replace the stopper assembly. I just noticed it on mine today, after 18 flights. An aluminum squish plate would probably take care of this.
Regardless, I think H9 has the opportunity to have a killer plane, if they would avoid saving pennies to increase profits:
1. The cowl fit, flimsiness, and attachment method needs to be improved - as it stands, the cowl is the loudest thing on my plane, louder than the engine!
2. The wings are light, but at a price. I had structural issues with my first set, and I know of two others that had similar problems - I'd bet we are not the only three. Thicker spars(they are currently only about 3/16" thick), higher quality balsa sheeting, and more/better glue needs to be used.
3. The fuse needs gusseting and cross-bracing in key areas, at least. You should not be able to twist a fuse this big by hand, period.
4. I already mentioned the stab attach method being a joke...
5. Covering material and application quality currently gets a "C" grade from me. Cut-lines of the trim are not very good. Overlapping methods, like on the wingtips, aileron tips, and stab and rudder tip is not how a pro does it. The glue all over the place is a no-brainer - at the very least, that should never bee seen again on future productions.
6. The idea of a pre-assembled tank is great, but it's worthless if practically everybody has to dissasemble it and fish pieces of plastic out of the tank and then replace the stopper assembly. I just noticed it on mine today, after 18 flights. An aluminum squish plate would probably take care of this.
11-05-2007, 03:01 PM
#9
RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
Varom,
I don't disagree with you, before I ever flew it and based solely on the construction I was disappointed. I did not expect to have stab issues or covering issues (I may eventually recover it), but I was pleasantly surprised at how well it flies. I am all about flight performance! I have to baby my pattern planes anyway so that is not new to me (worrying about rigidity is something alltogether different).
I stated in my assembly comments the covering leaves something to be desired, and I have heard more crunching than I am comfortable with while handling it, but the way it flies makes up for a LOT of shortcomings. When I come across a plane in the same price range, with similar performance and better construction I will plop down my change and buy it.
Anthony
I don't disagree with you, before I ever flew it and based solely on the construction I was disappointed. I did not expect to have stab issues or covering issues (I may eventually recover it), but I was pleasantly surprised at how well it flies. I am all about flight performance! I have to baby my pattern planes anyway so that is not new to me (worrying about rigidity is something alltogether different).
I stated in my assembly comments the covering leaves something to be desired, and I have heard more crunching than I am comfortable with while handling it, but the way it flies makes up for a LOT of shortcomings. When I come across a plane in the same price range, with similar performance and better construction I will plop down my change and buy it.
Anthony
11-05-2007, 03:27 PM
#10
RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
ORIGINAL: bodywerks
I agree that this is a better flying plane out of the box than pretty much any other 35% plane available.
Regardless, I think H9 has the opportunity to have a killer plane, if they would avoid saving pennies to increase profits:
1. The cowl fit, flimsiness, and attachment method needs to be improved - as it stands, the cowl is the loudest thing on my plane, louder than the engine!
2. The wings are light, but at a price. I had structural issues with my first set, and I know of two others that had similar problems - I'd bet we are not the only three. Thicker spars(they are currently only about 3/16" thick), higher quality balsa sheeting, and more/better glue needs to be used.
3. The fuse needs gusseting and cross-bracing in key areas, at least. You should not be able to twist a fuse this big by hand, period.
4. I already mentioned the stab attach method being a joke...
5. Covering material and application quality currently gets a "C" grade from me. Cut-lines of the trim are not very good. Overlapping methods, like on the wingtips, aileron tips, and stab and rudder tip is not how a pro does it. The glue all over the place is a no-brainer - at the very least, that should never bee seen again on future productions.
6. The idea of a pre-assembled tank is great, but it's worthless if practically everybody has to dissasemble it and fish pieces of plastic out of the tank and then replace the stopper assembly. I just noticed it on mine today, after 18 flights. An aluminum squish plate would probably take care of this.
I agree that this is a better flying plane out of the box than pretty much any other 35% plane available.
Regardless, I think H9 has the opportunity to have a killer plane, if they would avoid saving pennies to increase profits:
1. The cowl fit, flimsiness, and attachment method needs to be improved - as it stands, the cowl is the loudest thing on my plane, louder than the engine!
2. The wings are light, but at a price. I had structural issues with my first set, and I know of two others that had similar problems - I'd bet we are not the only three. Thicker spars(they are currently only about 3/16" thick), higher quality balsa sheeting, and more/better glue needs to be used.
3. The fuse needs gusseting and cross-bracing in key areas, at least. You should not be able to twist a fuse this big by hand, period.
4. I already mentioned the stab attach method being a joke...
5. Covering material and application quality currently gets a "C" grade from me. Cut-lines of the trim are not very good. Overlapping methods, like on the wingtips, aileron tips, and stab and rudder tip is not how a pro does it. The glue all over the place is a no-brainer - at the very least, that should never bee seen again on future productions.
6. The idea of a pre-assembled tank is great, but it's worthless if practically everybody has to dissasemble it and fish pieces of plastic out of the tank and then replace the stopper assembly. I just noticed it on mine today, after 18 flights. An aluminum squish plate would probably take care of this.
I don't like the way the cowl is mounted, I think it could have been done better, I understand they are trying to get a soft type mount but at the same time I think they should have come up with something better.
I haven't noticed any problems with the fuse twisting but I haven't tried to twist it yet other than flying the plane.
Totally agree on the covering, glue issues, and obviously the tank, since mine broke also. I PM'd Mike, he said he is aware of it and they are going to change it in the future.
I wish they would have done two mounting tabs on the root of the stabs instead of the one and the bolt through the stab tube.
I will be interested to see how it holds up, I had many of the same concerns with the 27% version but it proved my concerns wrong and survived my torture testing for hundreds of flights before I sold it.
There are many good things about it though, the flight performance being number one, the hardware is all useable (with the exception of the tank stopper assembly), the included pilot is nice, the ease of assembly, it does look good both on the ground and in the air.
In a MY* perfect world they would let me do the hinging and sealing, change the stab mounting, revise the cowl mounting, and maybe add some structural reinforcement.
11-05-2007, 03:52 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
You guys are getting pretty picky.
I have a lot of flights on mine and have no problems.
The wing ribs and fuse flexing is not a problem.
I'm not sure what bodywerks is talking about, but I'm sure if was an Aeroworks product it would be perfect.
I have a lot of flights on mine and have no problems.
The wing ribs and fuse flexing is not a problem.
I'm not sure what bodywerks is talking about, but I'm sure if was an Aeroworks product it would be perfect.
11-05-2007, 04:10 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
Give him a break, TBob. He did get the plane, put it together and is flying it. It's not like he is bad-mouthing something just to drum up business... The issues he mentions are echoed by others, as are the high points for very high flight quality out of the box.
It's all an issue of balance - quality vs. price and people make their choice based on what they care about...
It's all an issue of balance - quality vs. price and people make their choice based on what they care about...
11-05-2007, 05:13 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
BTW, there are three (3) of them for sale on RCU right now. Kind of surprising for a brand new kit. Asking price anywhere from $2900 to $3500 including all electronics and DA-100.
I just saw Dick Pettit was getting rid of his. I thought he liked it...
11-05-2007, 05:35 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
I had the oportunity to look inside at the hinge job on the ailerons for a buddy,... no glue on the hinge and the hinge had missed the block, so it was just "in there" dont know about the others.
I think I will stay clear of pre hinged planes
I think I will stay clear of pre hinged planes
11-05-2007, 09:35 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
It's all an issue of balance - quality vs. price and people make their choice based on what they care about...
Hey yarom my sister lives in Kirkland and my two brothers live in Seattle.
That’s a great area you live in, been there twice and I love it but it's no Chicago. (Goooooo some team all of ours suck)
12-15-2007, 08:37 PM
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RE: 35% H9 Extra 260 Maiden - I stand Corrected
Congrats on the plane Anthony!
I guess they are not all the same.
I have a bunch of flights on mine, and it is doing fine. Only issues are the axles are too small, and the stab tube did get loose but that was an easy five minute fix. My fuse does not twist, cowl does not make noise, covering is very good and clean, not concerned about the stab mounting method. Very pleased with mine, construction is good, performance is excellent. I think it's a great ARF for $900.
I guess they are not all the same.
I have a bunch of flights on mine, and it is doing fine. Only issues are the axles are too small, and the stab tube did get loose but that was an easy five minute fix. My fuse does not twist, cowl does not make noise, covering is very good and clean, not concerned about the stab mounting method. Very pleased with mine, construction is good, performance is excellent. I think it's a great ARF for $900.
