Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic Discuss all your 3D & Aerobatic giant scale airplanes right here!

A123 Info Page is up

Reply
Old 01-18-2008, 01:32 AM
  #1
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default A123 Info Page is up

For those looking to get more information on A123 battery packs, I put an A123 info page up just for quick reference. If you have any other questions or think I should add something, please feel free to post it here or contact me via the website.

http://www.sincityjets.com/batteries/a123info.html
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 08:30 AM
  #2
altavillan
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Altaville, CA
Posts: 1,416
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Heat shrink tubes for making our own packs.
Racing silver solder.
HD servo leads. Or kits to make yer own.
A spot on the flight line for the big Vegas 3D event.
20ga silicone twisted wire.
Banana plugs for those Dapters.
Couple hours of 3D learnin from Bender.
a123 1100 packs.
More Joe and Moriah photo shoots.

I don't want much but a all in one shop
altavillan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 11:57 AM
  #3
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

I would expect that from someone from Altaville

As far as the leads for the Dapter, use deans connectors, and we are starting to bring in the 1100's. 2 out of 9 isn't bad.
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 07:14 PM
  #4
Bob_S
 
Bob_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar ParkTx
Posts: 247
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

"They offer a 10 year shelf life and 1000+ cycles, compared to ~200 cycles with Lipo's." This only applies if you charge at 10C. Other than that it looks great!
Bob_S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 07:34 PM
  #5
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Bob, I'm not sure what you meant by it only applies if you charge it at 10C. You would get 1 cycle from a lipo if you charged it at 10C.

Did you mean you could get MORE life from the A123 if you charged it lower than 10C?

Sorry for the confusion.
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 09:03 PM
  #6
yarom
 
yarom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,306
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


I started using that Dapter on my 2300 and 110 packs. Works like a champ. Just read the instructions.

I am still quite unclear how I should setup my Triton or my Ice for chrging with the dapter.

This is all while waiting for the new TP charger that is A123 compatible...
yarom is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 10:58 PM
  #7
altavillan
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Altaville, CA
Posts: 1,416
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

I just did a charge on a Acucycle elite and a Dapter. Plug the dapter to the battery, Press the button as per instructions, Start the charge in Lipo 7.4v, Crank up the amps to max (2A in this case), Hang around about 10 minutes and done. Only problem is the Dapter cuts off and the charger starts the warning sounds from being cut off too soon. Triton should be the same. Just set it for lipo 7.4v.

Tried the Celpro charger out too. It's sweet, preset for a123 auto charge. Plug in a pack and it takes off and gets er done, goes into balance mode at the end.
altavillan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 02:22 AM
  #8
3DAP
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: **, WA
Posts: 367
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

I SENT YOU A PM ABOUT THESE BATTERIE'S, DIAL ME IN SOME INFO!

3DAP
3DAP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 09:34 AM
  #9
Bob_S
 
Bob_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar ParkTx
Posts: 247
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


Quote:
ORIGINAL: SinCityJets

Bob, I'm not sure what you meant by it only applies if you charge it at 10C. You would get 1 cycle from a lipo if you charged it at 10C.

Did you mean you could get MORE life from the A123 if you charged it lower than 10C?

Sorry for the confusion.
Actually I need a calculator. lol I was thinking a 10c charge was 2a.

Nevermind!
Bob_S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 10:38 AM
  #10
Scoubidou
 
Scoubidou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Posts: 1,592
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Should we put 1 Amp load on the A123 to measure the voltage?
Scoubidou is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 11:34 AM
  #11
Bob_S
 
Bob_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar ParkTx
Posts: 247
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Scoubidou

Should we put 1 Amp load on the A123 to measure the voltage?
Not much point in doing that. The voltage looks pretty much the same over the entire discharge band. This means you can't tell the difference between a pack that is discharged 5% and one that is discharged 95%. This is the downside to the A123 cells, you can't inspect them and determine if they are ready to fly or not.
Bob_S is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 11:37 AM
  #12
altavillan
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Altaville, CA
Posts: 1,416
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Putting a load on to learn their habits should be done as you charge and fly them for the first few times. I only have a general knowledge from reading posts here. I expected first flight to pull the bat. to 6.7v or so, it did. 2nd flight showed 6.5v and third was 6.3. Ran out of daylight but thats where I would of done a quick charge. Graphs show a rapid drop off of useable energy at around 6 to 6.1 volt and I would want to test that theorie with a load checker.
altavillan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 11:52 AM
  #13
Tired Old Man
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Valley Springs, CA
Posts: 18,602
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

So when's the big Vegas event? You going, Guy? If so let me know, I'm open for the next 3 months. We'll fly out and rent a car. I'd like to see and hear more about the A123 batts, especially how they hold up in temps from 0 to -15c.
Tired Old Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 12:10 PM
  #14
AEROSHELDON
 
AEROSHELDON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 784
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

would a Dapter work with an Ion Cube?
AEROSHELDON is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 12:19 PM
  #15
Scoubidou
 
Scoubidou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boisbriand, QC, CANADA
Posts: 1,592
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Quote:
would a Dapter work with an Ion Cube?
Dont' wait your money on a dapter if you already have the Ion cube. You could buy a new charging ports for the A123 and install them into the Ioncube. Fromeco is not advertising yet but it's in stock and about 30$.
Daniel
Scoubidou is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 12:50 PM
  #16
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AEROSHELDON

would a Dapter work with an Ion Cube?
A dapter would not work on the cube. Like Scooby says, if they have come out with an A123 capable adapter, use that. Personally, I prefer the CellPro 4S.

As far as the Vegas event, there is an IMAC competition Feb 15-17 that I will be sponsoring, and will be present at.

As far as checking them "under load," it is not very useful for determining left over energy. Fully charge your batteries, fly 2-3 times, charge the batteries again and determine what your avaerage Mah per flight is. These 2300 Mah cells will actually last longer than a 2300 lipo or nimh pack.......how can that be?? 2300mah is 2300 mah! Not true. As the voltage of the pack decreases, the Amperage draw increases.....this means you draw more Amps from a pack as the voltage decreases; kind of like how your gas gauge on your car goes down faster on the last half of the tank (this is obviously for a different reason).

Since the A123 packs stay at about the same voltage for their duration, the Amp load does not significantly increase near the end of the cycle, whereby you actually get a little longer time with an A123 pack. Now, with that being said, you will not get a huge amount of more time, I simply make this illustration to show you that a 2300 Mah pack will last just as long, if not longer than any other chemistry battery. Don't be scared of the cliff dive at the end of the pack's cycle, just be familiar with how many Mah your plane uses per flight.

Using a charger that tells you how many Mah you put back in in CRUCIAL!
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 06:57 AM
  #17
Bob Pastorello
 
Bob Pastorello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: El Reno, OK
Posts: 6,707
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

I'm only chiming in here to support the suggestions about KNOWING what your airborne system uses out of your battery pack. I've used A123, 2300's since early 2007 doing my own packs. In all three airplanes, 50cc class, running 5 Hitec 5955TG's, not 3D flight, my typical current usage per 10 minute flight has averaged around 260ma. That is actual measured use, based on immediately flying a fully-charged pack for 3, ten minute normal flights, then recharging with the FMA CellPro 4S, letting it go all the way through full balance mode to 100%, and reading the milliamps that it put in.

I've checked this on all three setups, and the current usage is very consistent for my applications.

So, what I do is take my average, add a safety margin factor (I use 25% because I'm conservative), and figure a 10 minute flight to actually "use" 325mah.....so a fully charged pack means definitely a "fly all day" setup for me.

As others have said, these are just outstanding innovation in our airplanes, and I converted everything, ignitions included, to A123 technology and have not looked back.

The two DEFINITE "caveats" to using them;
1. KNOW pretty accurately what your airborne radio system typically uses for YOUR average flight.
2. ONLY use a charger that tells you exactly how many ma have been put back in it.

P.S. - Great A123 info page, SinCityJets...
Bob Pastorello is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 06:09 AM
  #18
Rockyaged
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 277
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


I bought the FMA Cellpro 4S charger and five node/charging harnesses and assembled
them myself. I started with the 10 cell Dewalt power supply to make the 5 packs. The
completion time for one 2 cell pack was about an hour. I did step by step checks and
charged the pack with the Cell pro charger. This charger has a setting designed specifically
for the A123 batteries. It charges at 4 amps, beeps once at 98 % of capicity and beeps
again when cells are fully charged. The full voltage is 7.20, which also can be seen on another
screen at each pack in a 2 cell pack reading 3.60 volts. After installing into the two airplanes,
the voltage read on a Hanger 9 meter thru the Smart Fly heavy duty switches is 6.9 volts. The
Hanger 9 meter is 1 amp loaded,I believe.
What I found interesting was the wires on the Charge/Balance Nodes. They are 20 gage,
and I felt no heat on them or the batteries during charge. I have to wonder, if the model pulls
4 amps or less while doing a snap roll, then would 18, 16 or 14 gage that some profess to be
necessary, actually be necessary? 30%ers with 5 Hi-Tech 5955s, maybe. Those of you who
have or plan to have load meters might check this for us and let us know results.
Because of rainy weather for the rest of the week, I will not be able to fly. The upside of this
is that I will be able to measure the voltage daily to see if there is any leakage. The first few flights
and measurements will be interesting, and, for me, nerve racking. Having heard nothing but good
about these batteries, I am willing to take the risk.

Gerald

PS The Cellpro 4S charger will tell you how much capacity was put back into the battery after the
charging.
Rockyaged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 07:39 AM
  #19
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway
 
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 2,422
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Guys don't forget that the Thunderpower 1010C now comes with A123 fimware loaded and if you already have one it can be updated.

I use the 1010C on my 2 cell A123's and don't bother with the balance, I can charge up to 10 amps and it tells how many mAh were put back in.

Richard
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 01:03 PM
  #20
yarom
 
yarom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,306
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


I am waiting for their new smaller/cheaper charger. My LHS has orders for a hundred and I'm one of them.
yarom is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 01:33 PM
  #21
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Yarom,

I have to tell you, the CellPro is a pretty great charger, and unlike the Thunder Power chargers, it balance charges by PUSHING current to the low cell, as opposed to PULLING current off the high cells. It can make a big difference.
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 04:31 PM
  #22
altavillan
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Altaville, CA
Posts: 1,416
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up

Yep, the last 10% of charge is balance mode.

To all installing a123s and are planning on using the Cellpro. You will need to make your side of the fuselage charge jack balance capable for the Cell pro to work without having to remove the canopy to get to the batteries charge lead. The Cellpro will only charge if a balance lead is detected.
altavillan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 04:35 PM
  #23
Rockyaged
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 277
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


If the SmartFly BatShare works with the A123 batteries, without being
overloaded by the excess current possibility of multi-servo-ed models,
then wouldn't it be a good theing that the Cellpro begins it's charging
with cells that are already balanced? Seems like a good idea to me.

Gerald
Rockyaged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 04:40 PM
  #24
Rockyaged
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 277
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


If the SmartFly BatShare works with the A123 batteries, without being
overloaded by the excess current possibility of multi-servo-ed models,
then wouldn't it be a good thing that the Cellpro begins it's charging
with cells that are already balanced? Seems like a good idea to me.
Or any other chargers for that matter?

Gerald

Rockyaged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 06:37 PM
  #25
SinCityJets
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 2,778
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: A123 Info Page is up


Quote:
ORIGINAL: altavillan

Yep, the last 10% of charge is balance mode.

To all installing a123s and are planning on using the Cellpro. You will need to make your side of the fuselage charge jack balance capable for the Cell pro to work without having to remove the canopy to get to the batteries charge lead. The Cellpro will only charge if a balance lead is detected.

Alta,

you can actually use a JR charging jack adapter. Many of my customers have me put a JR lead as the balancing connector, and then I make a JR to CellPro balancing connector for use on the charger side.

This allows you to use a standard JR servo extension to make the balancing lead as long as you want it!
SinCityJets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:37 AM.