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Dual RX - who's using them?
01-28-2008, 02:52 PM
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
If you are splitting everything across 2 receivers - aren't you splitting the plane in half and still only have the throttle on one of those receivers?
On top of that, I have landed a plane with 1 elevator before.. however loosing the whole half of a plane (hopefully not the half with the throttle) is another story completely. Sure you have a redundant setup, but how many could actually save the plane like that?
Just a thought.
On top of that, I have landed a plane with 1 elevator before.. however loosing the whole half of a plane (hopefully not the half with the throttle) is another story completely. Sure you have a redundant setup, but how many could actually save the plane like that?
Just a thought.
01-28-2008, 02:53 PM
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: camss69
When you run the dual RX's you are slplitting the current flow between them and reducing your need for a power distribution system.
It's all in "how redundant do you want to be" really, your covered if one battery fails because you have two, your covered if one reg fails because you have two, your covered if you loose one switch, one connector, etc... etc... if you run the single RX well then your redundancy stops there.
There's always an ending point, you can have backups to backups. I like that if I loose an RX, which granted today are pretty reliable as is most of the stuff but I would say I hear of RX's failing, or going into failsafe, more than I hear of a battery failing, or a reg. (this is of course debateable)
It's all good stuff, but if I add another device in the area where I only have a single devices, (add a single power box to a single RX) then I haven't added to my redundancy I've added to my catostrophic single failure potential points.
IF your running dual batts, dual switches, and dual RX's, well that about completes it, you can loose one of any of them and have a chance* at recovering the plane.
The cost of a additional RX is also cheaper and lighter than a power box.
ORIGINAL: Hammbone
The point I'm trying to make in this thread is that instead of spending money on a second rx which will still give you limited current flow, you can spend the money on a Power Expander and not have limited current flow. I'm not sure why some of you are so afraid of Power Expanders. I've never heard of one failing, ever.
I've made my point now though, and will leave it at that. I'm only trying to be helpful and everything I've said is the truth. Fly what you decide is best for you.
Jim
ORIGINAL: MikeEast
Only if it makes you feel better. I dont think its necessary to get adequate performance, but as the $$$ of the plane goes up a second receiver becomes very cheap insurance. Although I could see justifying a 2nd $100 receiver in a $4000 35% airplane, I have had lots of 35% planes and I have never had 2 receivers, but I do use duplicate power sources since batteries, switches, regulators etc are not unlikely to fail.
Only if it makes you feel better. I dont think its necessary to get adequate performance, but as the $$$ of the plane goes up a second receiver becomes very cheap insurance. Although I could see justifying a 2nd $100 receiver in a $4000 35% airplane, I have had lots of 35% planes and I have never had 2 receivers, but I do use duplicate power sources since batteries, switches, regulators etc are not unlikely to fail.
I've made my point now though, and will leave it at that. I'm only trying to be helpful and everything I've said is the truth. Fly what you decide is best for you.
Jim
It's all in "how redundant do you want to be" really, your covered if one battery fails because you have two, your covered if one reg fails because you have two, your covered if you loose one switch, one connector, etc... etc... if you run the single RX well then your redundancy stops there.
There's always an ending point, you can have backups to backups. I like that if I loose an RX, which granted today are pretty reliable as is most of the stuff but I would say I hear of RX's failing, or going into failsafe, more than I hear of a battery failing, or a reg. (this is of course debateable)
It's all good stuff, but if I add another device in the area where I only have a single devices, (add a single power box to a single RX) then I haven't added to my redundancy I've added to my catostrophic single failure potential points.
IF your running dual batts, dual switches, and dual RX's, well that about completes it, you can loose one of any of them and have a chance* at recovering the plane.
The cost of a additional RX is also cheaper and lighter than a power box.
Jim
01-28-2008, 03:10 PM
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
If you are splitting everything across 2 receivers - aren't you splitting the plane in half and still only have the throttle on one of those receivers?
On top of that, I have landed a plane with 1 elevator before.. however loosing the whole half of a plane (hopefully not the half with the throttle) is another story completely. Sure you have a redundant setup, but how many could actually save the plane like that?
Just a thought.
If you are splitting everything across 2 receivers - aren't you splitting the plane in half and still only have the throttle on one of those receivers?
On top of that, I have landed a plane with 1 elevator before.. however loosing the whole half of a plane (hopefully not the half with the throttle) is another story completely. Sure you have a redundant setup, but how many could actually save the plane like that?
Just a thought.
Jim
01-28-2008, 03:34 PM
#29
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
I agree it does all depend on your goal, if you just wanted to power the plane then things would be different, but that wasn't the question it was about dual RX vs. single RX..
In the dual Rx setup I run the smart-fly ignition kill which plugs into both RX's. If one RX looses power or has a problem it won't kill the engine so at a minimum you can still kill the engine when you are lined up with the runway to land. Mine is setup left ail, right elev, ign kill, and rudder on one RX, then rt ail, left elev, ign kill, and throttle on the other, kind of a cross control thing going on there to hopefully get a better chance at making it back in one piece.
You're also right, you may still not be able to save the plane if you lost half of it on a dual rx setup BUT you would have a chance! I think that is quite a bit better than standing there watching it fly itself.
In the dual Rx setup I run the smart-fly ignition kill which plugs into both RX's. If one RX looses power or has a problem it won't kill the engine so at a minimum you can still kill the engine when you are lined up with the runway to land. Mine is setup left ail, right elev, ign kill, and rudder on one RX, then rt ail, left elev, ign kill, and throttle on the other, kind of a cross control thing going on there to hopefully get a better chance at making it back in one piece.
You're also right, you may still not be able to save the plane if you lost half of it on a dual rx setup BUT you would have a chance! I think that is quite a bit better than standing there watching it fly itself.
01-28-2008, 03:36 PM
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ahh that makes sense...
The whole 2 recever thing was pretty big before my time in the hobby, but I was curious about that part. I didn't really feel like taking off and flying a plane with only half of it working to test my question
For me I only have 1 transmitter so 1 receiver works for me.. I just try and mount everything properly, make sure to have a quality power system matched for that plane, and fly my butt off.
The whole 2 recever thing was pretty big before my time in the hobby, but I was curious about that part. I didn't really feel like taking off and flying a plane with only half of it working to test my question
For me I only have 1 transmitter so 1 receiver works for me.. I just try and mount everything properly, make sure to have a quality power system matched for that plane, and fly my butt off.
01-28-2008, 07:48 PM
#31
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: camss69
I agree it does all depend on your goal, if you just wanted to power the plane then things would be different, but that wasn't the question it was about dual RX vs. single RX..
In the dual Rx setup I run the smart-fly ignition kill which plugs into both RX's. If one RX looses power or has a problem it won't kill the engine so at a minimum you can still kill the engine when you are lined up with the runway to land. Mine is setup left ail, right elev, ign kill, and rudder on one RX, then rt ail, left elev, ign kill, and throttle on the other, kind of a cross control thing going on there to hopefully get a better chance at making it back in one piece.
You're also right, you may still not be able to save the plane if you lost half of it on a dual rx setup BUT you would have a chance! I think that is quite a bit better than standing there watching it fly itself.
I agree it does all depend on your goal, if you just wanted to power the plane then things would be different, but that wasn't the question it was about dual RX vs. single RX..
In the dual Rx setup I run the smart-fly ignition kill which plugs into both RX's. If one RX looses power or has a problem it won't kill the engine so at a minimum you can still kill the engine when you are lined up with the runway to land. Mine is setup left ail, right elev, ign kill, and rudder on one RX, then rt ail, left elev, ign kill, and throttle on the other, kind of a cross control thing going on there to hopefully get a better chance at making it back in one piece.
You're also right, you may still not be able to save the plane if you lost half of it on a dual rx setup BUT you would have a chance! I think that is quite a bit better than standing there watching it fly itself.
That is the correct way to hook up a dual RX system as far as I am concerned. I think that would make it very possible to land the plane without incident in the event of an RX failure.
01-28-2008, 07:54 PM
#32
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: Hammbone
Tom,
You are not the only guy that has ever put a data logger in a plane during flight. Other guys have recorded up to 24 amps on a 35% plane. You are using inline switches and standard plugs for current into the rx which, in my opinion, is limitng your current flow and causing your lower readings. If you would use a Power Expander and failsafe switch, I believe you would see higher current flow as others have.
People have also tested individual servos. A JR 8711 was tested and used up to 4 amps. If one servo can use up to 4 amps, then it is reasonable to assume that 10 servos can use up to 40 amps. There are several manuevers that put heavy loads on multiple servos at once while we are flying. Yes, a guy recorded 42 amps being used on a 40%er. Ignore it if you want to.
If you like flying with what you've got, then keep doing it. I'm just lettting other guys know that there is a better way.
Jim
ORIGINAL: rctom
In my opinion, 20 amps might be enough for my jet (I'll have to think about it), but I don't think it's enough for a 33 to 35%er. I've heard of 35%er's using as much as 24 amps. It is definitely not enough for a 40%er. I've heard of 40%er's using as much as 42 amps.
You can expect a 35% plane to draw about 3-5 amps for 95% of the flight, the rest of the time it will peak out at maybe 12 amps for a few seconds at a time. I know this because I have used a data recorder to measure what is used. You will never see 20 amps, not even close.
Ther most my 106" plane ever pulled was 11.2 and that was only for a few seconds. And I was flying it hard tryiong to get as much load on the servos as I could.
If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because he has an on-board welder.
TF
In my opinion, 20 amps might be enough for my jet (I'll have to think about it), but I don't think it's enough for a 33 to 35%er. I've heard of 35%er's using as much as 24 amps. It is definitely not enough for a 40%er. I've heard of 40%er's using as much as 42 amps.
Ther most my 106" plane ever pulled was 11.2 and that was only for a few seconds. And I was flying it hard tryiong to get as much load on the servos as I could.
If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because he has an on-board welder.
TF
You are not the only guy that has ever put a data logger in a plane during flight. Other guys have recorded up to 24 amps on a 35% plane. You are using inline switches and standard plugs for current into the rx which, in my opinion, is limitng your current flow and causing your lower readings. If you would use a Power Expander and failsafe switch, I believe you would see higher current flow as others have.
People have also tested individual servos. A JR 8711 was tested and used up to 4 amps. If one servo can use up to 4 amps, then it is reasonable to assume that 10 servos can use up to 40 amps. There are several manuevers that put heavy loads on multiple servos at once while we are flying. Yes, a guy recorded 42 amps being used on a 40%er. Ignore it if you want to.
If you like flying with what you've got, then keep doing it. I'm just lettting other guys know that there is a better way.
Jim
I just made a deal for a Weatronic. Once I get it in my 37% I'll post some logs of current readings. If I am above 25 amps I will be shocked - and I will huck the crap out of that baby to be sure.
01-28-2008, 08:19 PM
#33
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: martinarcher
I would like to see those 40 amp logs. I would also like to see his full deflection current on the ground. I'm not saying it's not possible, just unlikely. 40 amps @ 6 volts is an insane amount of power. I think Tom's numbers sound a little more reasonable.
I just made a deal for a Weatronic. Once I get it in my 37% I'll post some logs of current readings. If I am above 25 amps I will be shocked - and I will huck the crap out of that baby to be sure.
ORIGINAL: Hammbone
Tom,
You are not the only guy that has ever put a data logger in a plane during flight. Other guys have recorded up to 24 amps on a 35% plane. You are using inline switches and standard plugs for current into the rx which, in my opinion, is limitng your current flow and causing your lower readings. If you would use a Power Expander and failsafe switch, I believe you would see higher current flow as others have.
People have also tested individual servos. A JR 8711 was tested and used up to 4 amps. If one servo can use up to 4 amps, then it is reasonable to assume that 10 servos can use up to 40 amps. There are several manuevers that put heavy loads on multiple servos at once while we are flying. Yes, a guy recorded 42 amps being used on a 40%er. Ignore it if you want to.
If you like flying with what you've got, then keep doing it. I'm just lettting other guys know that there is a better way.
Jim
ORIGINAL: rctom
In my opinion, 20 amps might be enough for my jet (I'll have to think about it), but I don't think it's enough for a 33 to 35%er. I've heard of 35%er's using as much as 24 amps. It is definitely not enough for a 40%er. I've heard of 40%er's using as much as 42 amps.
You can expect a 35% plane to draw about 3-5 amps for 95% of the flight, the rest of the time it will peak out at maybe 12 amps for a few seconds at a time. I know this because I have used a data recorder to measure what is used. You will never see 20 amps, not even close.
Ther most my 106" plane ever pulled was 11.2 and that was only for a few seconds. And I was flying it hard tryiong to get as much load on the servos as I could.
If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because he has an on-board welder.
TF
In my opinion, 20 amps might be enough for my jet (I'll have to think about it), but I don't think it's enough for a 33 to 35%er. I've heard of 35%er's using as much as 24 amps. It is definitely not enough for a 40%er. I've heard of 40%er's using as much as 42 amps.
Ther most my 106" plane ever pulled was 11.2 and that was only for a few seconds. And I was flying it hard tryiong to get as much load on the servos as I could.
If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because he has an on-board welder.
TF
You are not the only guy that has ever put a data logger in a plane during flight. Other guys have recorded up to 24 amps on a 35% plane. You are using inline switches and standard plugs for current into the rx which, in my opinion, is limitng your current flow and causing your lower readings. If you would use a Power Expander and failsafe switch, I believe you would see higher current flow as others have.
People have also tested individual servos. A JR 8711 was tested and used up to 4 amps. If one servo can use up to 4 amps, then it is reasonable to assume that 10 servos can use up to 40 amps. There are several manuevers that put heavy loads on multiple servos at once while we are flying. Yes, a guy recorded 42 amps being used on a 40%er. Ignore it if you want to.
If you like flying with what you've got, then keep doing it. I'm just lettting other guys know that there is a better way.
Jim
I just made a deal for a Weatronic. Once I get it in my 37% I'll post some logs of current readings. If I am above 25 amps I will be shocked - and I will huck the crap out of that baby to be sure.
If your Weatronic goes above 25 amps, I will be surprised as well, since your current flow will be limited by the regulators.
Jim
01-28-2008, 09:12 PM
#34
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
Hammbone--I have no doubt that an 8711 can pull 4 amps stalled, 8611's will almost pull that from my tests. But,,, I have my doubts that you would "completely" stall every servo on a plane at the same time.
A lot or regs are rated continuous, whereas they are able to spike much higher too.
A lot or regs are rated continuous, whereas they are able to spike much higher too.
01-28-2008, 10:12 PM
#36
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: RTK
Hammbone--I have no doubt that an 8711 can pull 4 amps stalled, 8611's will almost pull that from my tests. But,,, I have my doubts that you would "completely" stall every servo on a plane at the same time.
A lot or regs are rated continuous, whereas they are able to spike much higher too.
Hammbone--I have no doubt that an 8711 can pull 4 amps stalled, 8611's will almost pull that from my tests. But,,, I have my doubts that you would "completely" stall every servo on a plane at the same time.
A lot or regs are rated continuous, whereas they are able to spike much higher too.
That is also correct, the regs will pass much more current than 25 amps for a short time. They are rated 5 amps continuous.
Most electonics have a constant duty rating and a burst rating. Look at your lipo cells they have each listed. The reason a reg has a constant current limit is heat - you will physically cook the thing running it too hard for too long. Breaking the burst current rating will "let the smoke out" for a lack of better terms.
I doubt most regualtors will clip at a certain current, but instead fail.If you are nearing a regulators current limit you will know when you land. The regulators will be very hot.
I also keep hearing this 3 amp limit on a standard servo plug and how it is a bottle neck. If it was a huge problem and limiting the current flow on your plane the connecotrs would become hot themselves and possibly even melt. I have seen this myself when putting together a biplane and accidently pinching a positive servo lead in the cabane and shorting it to ground. That certainly drew as much current as possible from my system though that poor little connector. It did get extrmemely hot and melt. It continued to work fine after being removed from the cabane, but I replaced it and coninued with my pre-flight check. I have never seen anyone pull that much current through a set-up without problems (shorts, binding, etc)
I didn't start this thread to talk about current draw, but it is good to address. I'm sure lots of guys are curious about current numbers and what certain planes draw in violent flight. It would be cool for some guys with flight logs to post some in flight data with set-up info. I'm looking forward to having logging capability myself. I like keeping tabs on my set-up.
01-28-2008, 10:31 PM
#39
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
I posted this a few months back. I'd prefer not to go over it again.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66...tm.htm#6665528
As you can see the setup was perfectly capable of passing 11+ amps, but rarely did so.
TF
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66...tm.htm#6665528
As you can see the setup was perfectly capable of passing 11+ amps, but rarely did so.
TF
01-28-2008, 11:04 PM
#40
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: rctom
I posted this a few months back. I'd prefer not to go over it again.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66...tm.htm#6665528
As you can see the setup was perfectly capable of passing 11+ amps, but rarely did so.
TF
I posted this a few months back. I'd prefer not to go over it again.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66...tm.htm#6665528
As you can see the setup was perfectly capable of passing 11+ amps, but rarely did so.
TF
Cool - thanks Tom. Yep thats the stuff I like to see. That thread is funny...
A month ago I couldn't spell enginne ear, now I are one.
01-28-2008, 11:34 PM
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
martinarcher-- I called Fromeco a couple of years ago and asked them some questions about their regs, batteries, etc. They told me a standard servo connector is good for 4 amps continuous, higher in burst. Straight from the horses mouth.
So,,,unless you have a serious binding (or shorting
) problem, that connector will handle a servos' needs just fine. (discounting those monster servos)
So,,,unless you have a serious binding (or shorting
) problem, that connector will handle a servos' needs just fine. (discounting those monster servos)
01-29-2008, 07:19 AM
#42
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: RTK
martinarcher-- I called Fromeco a couple of years ago and asked them some questions about their regs, batteries, etc. They told me a standard servo connector is good for 4 amps continuous, higher in burst. Straight from the horses mouth.
So,,,unless you have a serious binding (or shorting) problem, that connector will handle a servos' needs just fine. (discounting those monster servos)
martinarcher-- I called Fromeco a couple of years ago and asked them some questions about their regs, batteries, etc. They told me a standard servo connector is good for 4 amps continuous, higher in burst. Straight from the horses mouth.
So,,,unless you have a serious binding (or shorting
) problem, that connector will handle a servos' needs just fine. (discounting those monster servos)
Yep - I would agree. Although it is fun to watch them melt - keep the shorting to a minimum.
They will sure pass quite a but of current for short amounts of time.
01-29-2008, 09:20 AM
#43
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
Hammbone
I have to agree with U on this subject.
It's like having a freeway funnel into a single lane running regular switches.
One small item I have now tested the new JR 8711a in my 2.6m Yak and they are capable of pulling over 4 Amps so be careful.
Regarding Dual receivers
I use them on only my largest setups just for redundancy they do provide a poorer range check.
Ian
I have to agree with U on this subject.
It's like having a freeway funnel into a single lane running regular switches.
One small item I have now tested the new JR 8711a in my 2.6m Yak and they are capable of pulling over 4 Amps so be careful.
Regarding Dual receivers
I use them on only my largest setups just for redundancy they do provide a poorer range check.
Ian
01-29-2008, 12:53 PM
#44
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
Who makes a stand alone regulator that will put out 10-15 amps?
I have a setup installed in a plane right now, but my Smart-Fly regs are only capable of 5amps continuous and 9amps under surge. Thats the choke point in my setup. I'd like to get a reg that can handle more continuous amps.
Edit:
I need a regulator that has a Deans connector on the input and output. The only regs that I know of with this configuration are the Smart-Fly and they are limited to 5amps continuous. I have heavy cables and Deans connectors on the batteries. I have Smart-Fly heavy duty switches with heavy cables and Deans connectors coming in and out.
Everything has heavy cables, switches and connectors up to the regs. There are 3 standard connectors on the output of each regulator. But thats where the choke point it. The regs are only going to deliver 5amps continuous. If I had a 10-15 amp reg on each side, then everything would get all the power it needed.
I have a setup installed in a plane right now, but my Smart-Fly regs are only capable of 5amps continuous and 9amps under surge. Thats the choke point in my setup. I'd like to get a reg that can handle more continuous amps.
Edit:
I need a regulator that has a Deans connector on the input and output. The only regs that I know of with this configuration are the Smart-Fly and they are limited to 5amps continuous. I have heavy cables and Deans connectors on the batteries. I have Smart-Fly heavy duty switches with heavy cables and Deans connectors coming in and out.
Everything has heavy cables, switches and connectors up to the regs. There are 3 standard connectors on the output of each regulator. But thats where the choke point it. The regs are only going to deliver 5amps continuous. If I had a 10-15 amp reg on each side, then everything would get all the power it needed.
01-29-2008, 02:34 PM
#47
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: RTK
Fromeco I believe will give about 10 continuous, but double check on their web site.
Fromeco I believe will give about 10 continuous, but double check on their web site.
I've already got the heavy cables on my batteries and switches. Deans connectors on everything. Seams like going backwards to standard plugs would have me right back in the same spot.
01-29-2008, 06:30 PM
#48
RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: Flyjets
Hammbone
I have to agree with U on this subject.
It's like having a freeway funnel into a single lane running regular switches.
One small item I have now tested the new JR 8711a in my 2.6m Yak and they are capable of pulling over 4 Amps so be careful.
Regarding Dual receivers
I use them on only my largest setups just for redundancy they do provide a poorer range check.
Ian
Hammbone
I have to agree with U on this subject.
It's like having a freeway funnel into a single lane running regular switches.
One small item I have now tested the new JR 8711a in my 2.6m Yak and they are capable of pulling over 4 Amps so be careful.
Regarding Dual receivers
I use them on only my largest setups just for redundancy they do provide a poorer range check.
Ian
Nice clean set-up Ian. Just curious though, isn't mounting an RX on carbon a no-no? Carbon is conductive and I would think would cause issues. I would love to do it - it looks sweet, but would be scared of creating a plate that blocks radio along the RX itself. Anyone else tried that?
01-29-2008, 06:42 PM
#49
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
ORIGINAL: Rcpilet
They are rated at 10 amps, but they are using standard plugs in and out. Maybe I'm not looking at the right ones?
I've already got the heavy cables on my batteries and switches. Deans connectors on everything. Seams like going backwards to standard plugs would have me right back in the same spot.
ORIGINAL: RTK
Fromeco I believe will give about 10 continuous, but double check on their web site.
Fromeco I believe will give about 10 continuous, but double check on their web site.
I've already got the heavy cables on my batteries and switches. Deans connectors on everything. Seams like going backwards to standard plugs would have me right back in the same spot.
They will customize almost anything if you ask. Here is a pic of my latest creation. Didn't need the power box, but I had it so I figured I'd use it. As soon as my Li-polys die I will go A123 direct
01-29-2008, 08:03 PM
#50
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RE: Dual RX - who's using them?
Flyfalcon
The JR8711 is basically stalled with a full scale deflection and I can't remember the Ounces of weight but it was a bunch.
martinarcher
If U look real careful U might be able to see that nothing actually touches the Carbon except the Foam the way I have it designed it's as if they Float on top of it reducing the vibration.
Rcpilet
Call Fromeco and they will custom make u the regulators with heavy wire and Deans connectors just look.
Ian
The JR8711 is basically stalled with a full scale deflection and I can't remember the Ounces of weight but it was a bunch.
martinarcher
If U look real careful U might be able to see that nothing actually touches the Carbon except the Foam the way I have it designed it's as if they Float on top of it reducing the vibration.
Rcpilet
Call Fromeco and they will custom make u the regulators with heavy wire and Deans connectors just look.
Ian