2.4 problems or A123s or?
03-24-2008, 11:23 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Not 100% sure, but I believe when used with a Smart Fly Power Expander (like in this case), the Power Expander would isolate the bad servo.
Jim
Jim
03-24-2008, 11:52 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: craigteffe
Can someone here explain what happens if you have one servo that may have a short internally, not all the time just once or intermitantly. Could it reset the reciever? Or would it just suck all the amperage not allowing the rest of the servos to work?
Can someone here explain what happens if you have one servo that may have a short internally, not all the time just once or intermitantly. Could it reset the reciever? Or would it just suck all the amperage not allowing the rest of the servos to work?
With these batteries, if you got a short for any significant length of time, you'd surely see smoke or melting of wires someplace. That could draw down your battery voltage enough to cause a reset, but I think the wire would probably melt through and break to open after only a few seconds. This sort of short would be obvious as it would smell really bad and you'd see lots of smoke. The area of the greatest damage would probably be inside the servo, although it is theoretically possible to damage the RX bus or other junction leading from the batter to the RX. As Hammbone said, if you use some sort of powerexpander, it would probably isolate the problem.
A123's can supply upwards of 60 AMPS continually, so I wouldn't worry about intermittent shorts. If you suspect a bad component, get it checked out or replace it.
03-24-2008, 12:04 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: Hammbone
You didn't have any elevator control from 2 different servos on 2 different channels. This makes me think that the problem wasn't the servos. Even with weak servos it seems you would have gotten some deflection.
I would think it was a loss of current flow, or loss of signal. I don't think you've said if you had any failsafes set up?
Jim
You didn't have any elevator control from 2 different servos on 2 different channels. This makes me think that the problem wasn't the servos. Even with weak servos it seems you would have gotten some deflection.
I would think it was a loss of current flow, or loss of signal. I don't think you've said if you had any failsafes set up?
Jim
Good question.. I have to check on that. I am new to JR and honestly cant remember the settings off the top of my head. I did still have throttle and aileron though.
03-24-2008, 01:48 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
First to Quist .. I have no agenda with SF. I think they have some wondeful innovative products, and I plan to continue to buy their products. Jake, ..the PE is stuck on my brain because you said you were satisfied the batts were not the culptrit. So, if the batts were supplying the juice what could stop both servos from operating? (There was no RX reset since you say you had ailerons and throttle.) If the servos were getting the juice, then the only other reason they wouldn't respond would be due to lack of communication. I keep bringing up the PE because it is standing between the RX and the servos and communication has to pass thru it to get to the servos. As I said in the previous post ... TX, RX or PE. You must also have at least some common concern or you would not have sent the RX and PE off for review/repair ... huh?
03-24-2008, 04:14 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Jake,
I have been following this thread since the beginning.
It seems that you have ruled out the servos, batteries, and PE. All to be expected since you would need multiple smart failures to get absolutely no elevator function with dual elevators.
Have you checked the RX or even the TX? Those seem to be the only places where a single failure would cause loss of multiple channels.
Since you have said that you still had throttle and aileron control that leads me to suspect the TX. Maybe one of the gimbals in your TX is going bad?
I have been following this thread since the beginning.
It seems that you have ruled out the servos, batteries, and PE. All to be expected since you would need multiple smart failures to get absolutely no elevator function with dual elevators.
Have you checked the RX or even the TX? Those seem to be the only places where a single failure would cause loss of multiple channels.
Since you have said that you still had throttle and aileron control that leads me to suspect the TX. Maybe one of the gimbals in your TX is going bad?
03-24-2008, 06:35 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: Mitsu1
First to Quist .. I have no agenda with SF. I think they have some wondeful innovative products, and I plan to continue to buy their products. Jake, ..the PE is stuck on my brain because you said you were satisfied the batts were not the culptrit. So, if the batts were supplying the juice what could stop both servos from operating? (There was no RX reset since you say you had ailerons and throttle.) If the servos were getting the juice, then the only other reason they wouldn't respond would be due to lack of communication. I keep bringing up the PE because it is standing between the RX and the servos and communication has to pass thru it to get to the servos. As I said in the previous post ... TX, RX or PE. You must also have at least some common concern or you would not have sent the RX and PE off for review/repair ... huh?
First to Quist .. I have no agenda with SF. I think they have some wondeful innovative products, and I plan to continue to buy their products. Jake, ..the PE is stuck on my brain because you said you were satisfied the batts were not the culptrit. So, if the batts were supplying the juice what could stop both servos from operating? (There was no RX reset since you say you had ailerons and throttle.) If the servos were getting the juice, then the only other reason they wouldn't respond would be due to lack of communication. I keep bringing up the PE because it is standing between the RX and the servos and communication has to pass thru it to get to the servos. As I said in the previous post ... TX, RX or PE. You must also have at least some common concern or you would not have sent the RX and PE off for review/repair ... huh?
Actually they went in for repair because it went in hard.. broke part of the PE. The plane was in pieces. 1 wing some how basically survived and an elevator... rest completely destroyed. The most aggressive crash I have had in awhile
You figure it was up high on a 45 degree down line and I got on the throttle several times trying to see what I had and if I could magically power out of it.
03-24-2008, 06:40 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: N7160F
Jake,
I have been following this thread since the beginning.
It seems that you have ruled out the servos, batteries, and PE. All to be expected since you would need multiple smart failures to get absolutely no elevator function with dual elevators.
Have you checked the RX or even the TX? Those seem to be the only places where a single failure would cause loss of multiple channels.
Since you have said that you still had throttle and aileron control that leads me to suspect the TX. Maybe one of the gimbals in your TX is going bad?
Jake,
I have been following this thread since the beginning.
It seems that you have ruled out the servos, batteries, and PE. All to be expected since you would need multiple smart failures to get absolutely no elevator function with dual elevators.
Have you checked the RX or even the TX? Those seem to be the only places where a single failure would cause loss of multiple channels.
Since you have said that you still had throttle and aileron control that leads me to suspect the TX. Maybe one of the gimbals in your TX is going bad?
I have flown several foamies beating the heck out of them to see if I could see anything with the elevators and probably 5 hrs on the sim now and I cant make the radio do anything wrong.
Honestly at this point I am at a total loss.. I do know I have one bad aileron servo which didnt happen in the crash.. the wing was barely touched. I can't make the elvators act up and I have been beating up the battery a lot since this happened.
I am on the edge of admitting I will never figure this one out. I want to hear back from Horizon, Smart Fly and soon Hitec after I send these servos in. On my bench everything is rock solid.
The only unknown variable is someone decided to play with a r/c truck down at that end of the run way just before it happened. It was on 27 he said.. so I cant see that touching anything. Thats the only unknown left and really probably not even worth bringing up.
03-24-2008, 06:42 PM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Heck I would have loved to find something I did wrong and would freely admit that if I could find it. Just odd the way it all happened.
ATleast everyone has a good thread to try different types of testing with
ATleast everyone has a good thread to try different types of testing with
03-25-2008, 04:15 AM
#110
RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Jake
Have you thought how much wear you are putting on your Tx by using it on a sim, the stick pots are taking a bashing, you said you had the Tx on the sim for 5hrs that's a lot of flight time if its all added up.
Mike
Have you thought how much wear you are putting on your Tx by using it on a sim, the stick pots are taking a bashing, you said you had the Tx on the sim for 5hrs that's a lot of flight time if its all added up.
Mike
03-25-2008, 07:01 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
I have a few Questions 4 U after reading all this.
What Brand and Model Servos were they again?
Reason I ask is some of the newer JR 8711 will actually draw 3.5 amps per Servo on a full scale deflection.
With that Kind of Amp draw there were several cases in the Pasts for some of the Spectrum receivers to Blank out when the perceived a low Voltage.
Regarding the SmartFly Board I have run 8 JR8611a drawing 18 amps on each Board on my 3D stuff this is Peak and the Fromeco Regulators I Run can just keep up.
I was under the impression that the bottle neck was the Regulator.
Would really like keeping up with what has happened here but we must consider that there are many others using your exact setup and not having any trouble.
Ian
What Brand and Model Servos were they again?
Reason I ask is some of the newer JR 8711 will actually draw 3.5 amps per Servo on a full scale deflection.
With that Kind of Amp draw there were several cases in the Pasts for some of the Spectrum receivers to Blank out when the perceived a low Voltage.
Regarding the SmartFly Board I have run 8 JR8611a drawing 18 amps on each Board on my 3D stuff this is Peak and the Fromeco Regulators I Run can just keep up.
I was under the impression that the bottle neck was the Regulator.
Would really like keeping up with what has happened here but we must consider that there are many others using your exact setup and not having any trouble.
Ian
03-25-2008, 08:16 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Flyjets,
Did I understand you to say you were using 18 amps per side on the Power Expander, for a total of 36 amps? Was this recorded on an inflight monitoring device? I'm always looking for max current flow info in order to know how to best set up my planes.
Thanks, Jim
Did I understand you to say you were using 18 amps per side on the Power Expander, for a total of 36 amps? Was this recorded on an inflight monitoring device? I'm always looking for max current flow info in order to know how to best set up my planes.
Thanks, Jim
03-25-2008, 08:23 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Hambone you heard me correct.
This is what my CARF 3.3m Yak running 16 JR8611a recorded during a day when I had a Telemetry system available.
When doing hard 3D during the 1st split seconds of full scale 50 degree deflections this current was typical.
Remember 6 Aileron servos 4 Elevator and 4 Rudder Servos.
The 3.3 machine has about 10 Flights on her and has never shown any Power problems during any load.
Ian
03-25-2008, 08:34 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Thanks for the clarification. I've heard from one other source, a current draw of up to 42 amps on a 42%er. I've also heard of up to 22 amps on a 35%er.
Some people think there is no way our planes would draw that much current. They say that the most amps they've ever recorded was in the low teens and no one would ever go higher than that (on a 35%er). If you start asking about their set ups though, you find that they are limiting their current flow with poor set ups. You won't get higher amp readings when you have limited current flow.
Thanks again, Jim
Some people think there is no way our planes would draw that much current. They say that the most amps they've ever recorded was in the low teens and no one would ever go higher than that (on a 35%er). If you start asking about their set ups though, you find that they are limiting their current flow with poor set ups. You won't get higher amp readings when you have limited current flow.
Thanks again, Jim
03-25-2008, 08:40 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Jake
Have you thought how much wear you are putting on your Tx by using it on a sim, the stick pots are taking a bashing, you said you had the Tx on the sim for 5hrs that's a lot of flight time if its all added up.
Mike
Jake
Have you thought how much wear you are putting on your Tx by using it on a sim, the stick pots are taking a bashing, you said you had the Tx on the sim for 5hrs that's a lot of flight time if its all added up.
Mike
Mike.. whether it's on the sim or in the air I don't think it matters.. it's all flight time. I would eat up atleast 2hrs of stick time at the field on most weekend days either way.
03-25-2008, 08:47 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: Flyjets
I have a few Questions 4 U after reading all this.
What Brand and Model Servos were they again?
Reason I ask is some of the newer JR 8711 will actually draw 3.5 amps per Servo on a full scale deflection.
With that Kind of Amp draw there were several cases in the Pasts for some of the Spectrum receivers to Blank out when the perceived a low Voltage.
Regarding the SmartFly Board I have run 8 JR8611a drawing 18 amps on each Board on my 3D stuff this is Peak and the Fromeco Regulators I Run can just keep up.
I was under the impression that the bottle neck was the Regulator.
Would really like keeping up with what has happened here but we must consider that there are many others using your exact setup and not having any trouble.
Ian
I have a few Questions 4 U after reading all this.
What Brand and Model Servos were they again?
Reason I ask is some of the newer JR 8711 will actually draw 3.5 amps per Servo on a full scale deflection.
With that Kind of Amp draw there were several cases in the Pasts for some of the Spectrum receivers to Blank out when the perceived a low Voltage.
Regarding the SmartFly Board I have run 8 JR8611a drawing 18 amps on each Board on my 3D stuff this is Peak and the Fromeco Regulators I Run can just keep up.
I was under the impression that the bottle neck was the Regulator.
Would really like keeping up with what has happened here but we must consider that there are many others using your exact setup and not having any trouble.
Ian
Hitec 5955TGs x 5 and then a JR 821 on throttle - I agree it's a very popular setup and not pushing what the PE was originally designed for by any means.
Elsewhere it was brought to my attention that Hitec has stated they don't like their servo travel end points over driven.. has anyone else heard of this? My Travel points on the elevators ranged from 125%-145% with high rates at 100% ANyone see a problem with that?
03-25-2008, 10:34 AM
#117
RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
Elsewhere it was brought to my attention that Hitec has stated they don't like their servo travel end points over driven.. has anyone else heard of this? My Travel points on the elevators ranged from 125%-145% with high rates at 100% ANyone see a problem with that?
Elsewhere it was brought to my attention that Hitec has stated they don't like their servo travel end points over driven.. has anyone else heard of this? My Travel points on the elevators ranged from 125%-145% with high rates at 100% ANyone see a problem with that?
That said, I usually try to set mine up with as close to zero on the subtrims as I can mechanically achieve, determine what the servo limits are and then center the servos with the programmer. Keeping in mind any difficulties with getting the desired deflection and the offset center so the servos don't get pushed to their mechanical limits. If travel is not an issue, then I program the limits on the servos in such a way (usually about five degrees above the desired max deflection) as to get me into the 135 or so area on my X9303 tx travel limits.
That seems to be working well so far, but if anyone sees an issue with that method please feel free to offer your thoughts....
03-25-2008, 10:46 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Hi Jake,
I don't know about the Hitecs but when I was first doing the Equalizer using a JR 8411 I found that it did not like going past certain endpoints. On one end it would just go dead, like it had no power. On the other end it would suddenly rotate another 20 degrees or so. For the life of me I don't see why the software in the micro found in all the digitals servos cannot be smart and handle endpoints rationally. Its like the guys that program the servo software are just lazy and don't care about out of bound problems. So, I would not be surprised if the Hitecs did something strange when the pulse widths from the receiver were less than 0.75ms and more than 2.25ms. Also, I have found that the ATVs on transmitters have no relation to the actual pulse widths. Some transmitters at 100% will output pulse of 1ms and 2ms like they should. Others will output 1.15ms and 1.85ms, I presume allowing you to go over 100% but still stay in a safe range. Again, I wish there were some kind of standards that all the manufactures would stick to.
I don't know about the Hitecs but when I was first doing the Equalizer using a JR 8411 I found that it did not like going past certain endpoints. On one end it would just go dead, like it had no power. On the other end it would suddenly rotate another 20 degrees or so. For the life of me I don't see why the software in the micro found in all the digitals servos cannot be smart and handle endpoints rationally. Its like the guys that program the servo software are just lazy and don't care about out of bound problems. So, I would not be surprised if the Hitecs did something strange when the pulse widths from the receiver were less than 0.75ms and more than 2.25ms. Also, I have found that the ATVs on transmitters have no relation to the actual pulse widths. Some transmitters at 100% will output pulse of 1ms and 2ms like they should. Others will output 1.15ms and 1.85ms, I presume allowing you to go over 100% but still stay in a safe range. Again, I wish there were some kind of standards that all the manufactures would stick to.
03-26-2008, 08:58 AM
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RE: 2.4 problems or A123s or?
Do you have a fool-proof method for setting up dual servos on aileron?
I never seem to be able to get it to work just right and I am not clear regarding at which point do I need to work with the programmer and at which point do I need to connect to the Rx.
Also not clear if I center off the zero point, do I need to offset max travel by the same amount?
ORIGINAL: Zeeb
I've never run across anything from Hitec on that specific question. What I have seen and it relates to setting up the tx, is that you should not exceed a -10 on the ATV's for whichever radio you're using i.e. a Futaba would be a max 130 and JR a max 140. This to allow for subtrim settings. Also, should your subtrims exceed that 10 count then the travel limits should be reduced by that same margin.
That said, I usually try to set mine up with as close to zero on the subtrims as I can mechanically achieve, determine what the servo limits are and then center the servos with the programmer. Keeping in mind any difficulties with getting the desired deflection and the offset center so the servos don't get pushed to their mechanical limits. If travel is not an issue, then I program the limits on the servos in such a way (usually about five degrees above the desired max deflection) as to get me into the 135 or so area on my X9303 tx travel limits.
That seems to be working well so far, but if anyone sees an issue with that method please feel free to offer your thoughts....
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
Elsewhere it was brought to my attention that Hitec has stated they don't like their servo travel end points over driven.. has anyone else heard of this? My Travel points on the elevators ranged from 125%-145% with high rates at 100% ANyone see a problem with that?
Elsewhere it was brought to my attention that Hitec has stated they don't like their servo travel end points over driven.. has anyone else heard of this? My Travel points on the elevators ranged from 125%-145% with high rates at 100% ANyone see a problem with that?
That said, I usually try to set mine up with as close to zero on the subtrims as I can mechanically achieve, determine what the servo limits are and then center the servos with the programmer. Keeping in mind any difficulties with getting the desired deflection and the offset center so the servos don't get pushed to their mechanical limits. If travel is not an issue, then I program the limits on the servos in such a way (usually about five degrees above the desired max deflection) as to get me into the 135 or so area on my X9303 tx travel limits.
That seems to be working well so far, but if anyone sees an issue with that method please feel free to offer your thoughts....
