qldviking

Tired Old Man has some very good points there, the only thing I will re-iterate is battery output capacty, high mah rating is not enough, it must also be able to deliver hi amperage, especially with bigger planes using multiple digital servo's on all control surfaces. AA size cells are just not up to it. I dont know much about lipo's etc, but with the need for regulators etc its more things to fail, and I believe in the kiss principle, even at the expense of a few extra ounces, if that, when you take the extras into consideration. I have nicd and nimh packs, all either subC or Dcell they work well and are wired with heavier wire. just my 2 bits worth

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I don't want to sound like a shill, but the A 123 battery types are superior to anything we have been using up until recently. Their burst capacity is 30 to 50c and the voltage level is relatively flat line at 6.6 volts until far into the discharge cycle. Thet "fast charge" where other lithium battery types will not. Neither will nimh batteries. Because of the 6.6v constant they do not require regulators for flight systems and can be plugged directly into the receiver.

Too many advantages not to use them and have a more robust and simpler electrical system in our aircraft. Double A batteries are great for the ignition systems but have no place in multiple digital servo applications.

qldviking

one disadvantege, well 2, cost and you need a special charger

lopezjr

My Feedback: (24)

So the A 123 battery types are the way to go. That will be on my next purchase to the hobby shop. Thanks guys.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Compare the cost between a lipoly or lion battery and a regulator, along with a charger that will handle them to the purchase of an A 123 battery, twin lead DSC switch, and a Cellpro charger. The A 123 set up can be had for about $159.00 commerciall, or you can buy the battery packs from a tools supply store or Home Depot and make your own. You still need to obtain the right charger.

I have a dual 2,300 mAh, A123 battery installation in one of my planes. Three 10 minutes flights using 5 Hitec 7955 servos on the flight system and one JR 4721 on the throttle uses about 350 milliamps from each battery. I could go another 5 or 6 flights before re-charging but I wanted to keep testing the system before doing so. Takes about 10 minutes to recharge and balance each battery. It takes longer than that to recharge a 3,000 mAh nicad pack after three flights using similar servo installations. An hour or better using lions or lipolys. BTW, the Cellpro charger can handle other lithium batteries. I'm sure there are other charges that will do the job too, but I'm not yet aware of them.

So I'm down $159.00 for the first 2,300mAh A 123 battery, switch, and charger "kit", while the second battery and swicth set me back another $70.00. I have 4 power leads providing power to the receiver, so call it a constant 12 - 16 amps of direct servo power. The batteries can burst at 30-50c each and I don't have any regulators or power distribution system and can maintain a continuous 6.6v to the system for many flights before recharging. You can obtain 1,100mAh batties if you didn't need as many amps as I wanted. You could fly with just one battery if you so desired and your system was in proportion to the battery capacity.

So just how much more expensive are the A 123 battery installations? Let's do a quick li-on battery purchase comparison. No vendor names but the products can be obtained through more than one manufacturer, and the pricing was taken direct from a website.

2,600mAh lion: about $34.00. Times 2 = $68.00
5,200mAh lion: about $68.00. Times 2= $136.00
Regulator: $30.00 to $75.00. Times 2 = $60.00 to $150.00
Charger: $100.00 to $150.00.
Switch: $30.00 to $70.00. Times 2 = $60.00 to $140.00

So a basic two battery li-on system, using 2,600mAh batteries and a charger, could easily cost about $288.00 U.S, or more. You will do li-pos for about the same or more depending on the battery size.

That dual 2,300mAh A 123 installation myself and others are using? Roughly $239.00 U.S. A bit less for an 1,100mAh system.

Yes, you can obtain nicads or nimh batteries for less money, but the weight goes up with the capacity. Nicads and nimh both develop memories and require cycling. Nimh really can't be "fast" charged without causing some type of cell degradation. Only specific nicads should be fast charged. But both nicad and nimh batteries are relatively simple to use. A little secret (one you can't share with anybody or you'll have to commit suicide right after spilling the beans), so are the A 123, with no memories, no cycling, and can be stored at 100% capacity with only minor voltage losses when stored for extended periods of time. They're not explosive or highly flammable when damaged like another lithium battery type. Don't let any of that get out, ok?

Moving away from the battery discussion, if you're going to step up to high performance, large scale aircraft, truly step up. Don't upgrade to a larger plane without looking at the rest of the system that flies it. High performance means that it's high performance everywhere, not just in the size of the flight surfaces or the wing span. Everything changes, and that .40 to 1.20 size thought process and associated equipment became obsolete at the same time. When you stepped up, the days of thinking cheap had to change to thinking better or best.

lopezjr

My Feedback: (24)

Tired Old Man I can not thank you enough. I need a neighbor like you.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

No you don't. I'm mean, nasty, bad tempered, generally distracted, and intolerant of children. Just ask RTK, Altavillan, RC Ignition, and Josey Wales.

But you are welcome to any information I can help you with.

qldviking

Gee Tired Old Man, you sound like me

the thing that turned me of A123's was the cost here, took several calls to find someone here that had them, and then the price was nearly 6 times what you guys pay, and they didnt even have a suitable charger.

Lipo/regulater seems to be gaining popularity too, But I am beginning o come acroos toooo many cases in the forums where the regulater or switchgear failed resulting in a total loss, not my idea of fun. I still will go with what I know works and wont break the bank, and has minimal points to break/fail. I only use quality cells, switches etc and they have worked well so far. I have good capacity, ample current supply and a bare minimum to break/fail

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If you're considering a li-on/regulator installation, the Fromeco products are about as bullet proof as you're ever going to get. Always copied, but nobody has been able to do them as well. Great products and very high quality components. I've never had any issues with any of the several installations I have in my stuff, and I'm pretty sure you will receive numerous mentions from others in support of that.

You have a DA dealer in Australia that also handles Wild Hare products. Get in touch with him to see if he'll start carrying the A 123 packages that Wild Hare promotes. That's where I got mine, but Sin City Jets in Las Vegas, NV, USA, markets the systems as well. If you can obtain an FMA Cellpro charger you can make your own packs from the power supplies of battery powered drills and such. Send a PM to "Altavillan" for more info on the "how to's".

I'm aware of pricing in your country and I have yet to figure out how a country with a dollar slightly less valued than ours can be so much more expensive than my own country. Cost me a fortune for everything when I was over there, even factoring the exchange rate into things. Good lookin' sheilas and great beer though One of the few countries that I would go back to in a heartbeat. It's a great country.

qldviking

Its a great country in many ways, that's true but when it comes to our hobby shops we are getting ripped of big time, and treated like fools too. Would you believe the 3W importer here told me you cant run pipes on thier motors? I bet the motors dont know that, I ran pipes on my 60cc, 80cc twin and the 120cc and they ran hard and well with no problems. Thats typical of the service I get from the monkeys working in the hobby shops, and also why I avoid them like the plague. As for fromeco set ups thats as may be, but try buying them here, you'd think they were gold plated and diamond studded for what they want for them. the price I got for the set up to go in my upcoming 120" edge was over $900 here, thats 2 batteries, switches and a charger that may or may not be the right one [:@] not worth it to save a couple ounces by any means, and the guy that had them didnt even know about the right charger, and other stuff, again [:-] no thanks. I'll stick with what I know works reliably, and I am equipped to work with. It seems service here in our hobby has gone byebyes, and quality items are harder to get as our hobby is flooded with cheap chink crud, and most hobby shops I have been in touch with ( many nationwide) havent got a clue about anything which is why I shop a lot in the US and other countries, but I am wary when it comes to electrics especially not having anyone I can call for reliable advice. [:'(]

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds like a person with product knowledge and enough capital to set up a good shop could do well if the local economies and population base was good enough to support a new shop. The exorbitant pricing you experience makes you wonder about the import duties in your country. I'm aware of the taxation but perhaps there are other factors influencing the pricing.

As for the information base, these forums and others like them will generally provide the information needed to make good product decisions, but it takes a little time to post a question and weed through the answers. In the meantime keep having fun with what you have available and always make those full system checks before leaving the ground the first time. Perform the same checks on a periodic basis to assure that nothing changes and stay good to go.

Note that some ignitions packaged with gas engines aren't worth the case they are shrouded in. The best are still CH, RC Exl, DA, 3w, ZDZ, and Evo/Mvvs. Some of the others will cause problems regardless of what you do to prevent them. You'll likely find those in that group are sold by manufacturers only interested in the short term sale and have not made plans for long term exposure in the hobby. They sell something today, without ever having performed extended testing, and move their focus on to another product tomorrow with similar results. Those companies are usually not difficult to identify because they won't have a dealer network and require that their products be ordered direct from the factory, someplace far, far away. Unfortunately a few importers fail to check those products out and bring them in solely on the ultra low pricing.

qldviking

the main factor driving prices in hobby shops is that the owners gotta drive new mercedes and BMW's etc I have been looking into importing here lately and found out after calling the relevant Gov't agencies that taxes from either china or the US is low. Shipping in the quantities is not what they claim it to be either. Just good old fashioned greed.

The forums have lots of info, I just havent a clue about all the new fangled electronic stuff, I know nothing much about it all, electronics aren't my field. The forums often leave me scratching my head trying to figure what to try, and I dont have much to play with being on disabilty [&:] even on here I have read about too many crashes due to electronic failure of some sort
[:-]

I buy the best in what I buy, I mainly use jr or hitec servo's etc, I only use YS or Supre Tiger (25cc and up) glow motors, and have only got 3W or BME gassers.

I disagree with your evaluation on DA ignitions, I will never have another DA, the 2 I had blew ignitions about every 2 hours running on 4.8v batteries, and the warranty and service? [:@]

a lot of those cheap chink items are factory 2nds which they sell of anyway, and the warranty isn't worth the paper its written on

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Losing a DA ignition is generally not a common event. Because of their reliabilty they have been used on some propulsion units they were never designed for, as have CH. What you have experienced is definately not the norm.

Please don't mistake me as being one of the usual rabid DA supporters because that I definately am not, but they typically do have good products.

qldviking

you may well be right, DA seem to have a solid following. The biggest thing that put me of them was the lack of service and the attitude that came with it [:@]

vanguard

My Feedback: (25)

Here in the States the last thing you would hear is that DA has poor service. That is one detail people have always bragged as to how good the service is from DA. The other thing is that yours is the first issue I have ever heard concerning a poor ignition system. I own several gas engines, including DA, and have never had an issue with any of the name brand ignitions. Like the T.O. M. I am not a rabid fan of any one particular brand but I think the name brand engines have pretty good ignition systems. It does sound like your LHS leaves a lot to be desired. In my area, the hobby shops have to deal honestly just to try to hold their own against mail order companies. With our economy, and high gas prices, the LHS have their work cut out for them.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

OK, I don't use DA engines for the most part but the lack of service has to be something particular to your side of the lake. They handle the European engine issues rather well too. Over here service is one of the things that built DA. There have been a lot of reports of the service people have obtained at DA-USA, with rarely a bad word being said.

As I noted before, I'm not a strong and vocal supporter of DA but my experiences have proven them to take care of their customers and their products. Something isn't right somewhere for you to have had bad service. As for the attitude, well, I experienced some of the same when I met up with them at a trade show but they had cause since they knew who I was. With that in mind, they still handle all my orders as if I was one of the good guys so I can't fault them at all. Those that have been their proponents or that purchase and use their engines generally receive pretty good treatment. Make that real good treatment.

DA has done much for our hobby and it troubles me when I hear they might have service issues. That's definately not something they have ever been noted for. You might want to delve into that a little more to determine the problems' point of origin.

qldviking

Ok time for a sit rep here. I live in nth Queensland, The nearest large towns are 80 and 160 miles away, and the hobby shops there are mainly into rc cars, and parkflyers and 40-60 size glow planes. The major stores for most quality products are in Victoria andf sth Aust. so dealing with them is over the phone or emailing. On the phoe you usually get some young punk who hasnt got a clue, and to get to talk to someone who knows anything is an exercise in frustration at best. emails go unanswered.

To give an example, early this yr I decided to resurrect 3 planes of different sizes, I told the guy what planes I was chasing parts for, and as we were sorting out the various bits I was suddenly told "you dont want that thats the wrong size, you need need these bits (which were too small for what I wanted) I tried to tell the punk what I wanted for what size and type plane but he insisted he knew better and told me what he would send [:@] I mean, would you use small ca type hinges on a 50cc Yak? this went on for 15-20 min and when I asked to speak to the boss I was told he was not in the shop yet I cvould hear him in the background. The punk didnt even ask him if he would talk to me. I thern told the punk to look up my current order (which included a H9 46% Ultimate and motor) and when he looked it up I told him what he could do with (unprintable) and quietly hung up. this happens to alot of people living in country areas here. [:'(]

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Rather descriptive, but I get your point.

Send an e-mail to [email protected] requesting some info about his A 123 battery "kits". Let hem know where you are and see if he can't take care of it for you. There are others that handle the same or similar products but he's pretty well known for taking care of his customers and providing them good products at fair prices. I'm aware that he does product exports but I don't know what his arrangements might be with dealers in your country. It's worth checking out.

qldviking

Thank you very much T.O.M for your help. I will get in touch with them and find out if they deal with me.

LINGDUI

I just lost my plane today!!!!!! it was brand new with spektrum dx6 I just lost contact with the plane it wasnt far away they were closed to me it started to roll then stop and went down please help me I dont know what to do ......

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Build another?

LINGDUI

thats not the problem the problem is if spektrum is not really interference free, my friend just call me and he said that he had the same problem with a dx7 in the same airfield one hour after my craSH

qldviking

Have look in other threads on here, 2.4g isnt as foolproof as they claim. I have seen enough incidents on 2.4g personally to not want to go anywhere near it. as I have stated before, I sold my DX7 and got a jr10x instead on 36mhz the aust freq. The problem we have here tho, is that your plane crashed, and therefore we cannot prove one way or another as to what actually caused the crash. Was it radio interference? mechanical/electronic breakdown, radio/rx malfunction?
I'd seriously have a good read through all the threads on the 2.4g systems here, and then think if any apply to you and if so rethink your radio choice
just my 2 bits worth

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

2.4 is not free of possible interference, but it is far less susceptable than 72 mhz. There are far too many user induced variables involved in any engine, aircraft, component installation to arbitrarily place the blame on a radio or ignition.

One of the problems with the advent of arfs and fast assembly kits is that many have entered the hobby with almost no understanding of how things work. They flew a sim for a little bit and now it's time to fly for real. So many put everything together, frequently incorrectly, crash the plane, and immediately blame the radio or the ignition. Most never perform a double range check, if they perform a range check at all. Many assume that if the plane functions ok at 10-20-30 feet or so before experiencing a glitch it's good to go. Worse, they figure that only one channel had a "small" glitch so it will be ok to fly. A few moments later they rapidly find out that assumption was not a good one. Some are under the impression that 2.4 ghz cures everything and you no longer need to do all the stuff we used to do to assure a good, rfi free, installation. Few read the instructions that came with the radio or igniton.

If everyone went to the www.ch-ignitions.com site and read the entire instruction manual there, they would come away with a much better understanding of what they need to know and do. Not everything, but a good start. RCGF-USA has a good information package online, as does Pe Reivers with his MVVS engines information. 3w has ignition information that's more specific to their particular products.

rc bugman

My Feedback: (30)

Hi,

One other small issue with 2.4 gig units is the limited tx power output. Output is limited to 10 mw on 2.4 compared to 600 mw with 72.

Elson