JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

Hey guys, hope everyone is fine..., well after 15 years of flying RC models i just took the hobby back again..., i was more than scale sport flying area, but a few months ago i bought some 3D airplanes most of them .46 and one .60 size. Also im on the heli area too.

On my local club there is a lot of people with 50CC size birds and wow i fall in love!!. Right now im planning to start to buy parts to complete in a few weeks the hole project so i decide to registered here and ask a few questions about the electronic setup on that size airplane.

Advice on this area:

Airplane:
Dont know anything about brands...in giant scale area i just saw Aeroworks 260 50CC on my field and looks amazing, thats exactly the size that i want. Im new on 3D with this size of airplanes so it can be something to start.

Motor:
A few people are telling me about DLE 55CC, is a good option or something else?

Servos:
i didnt know that this high torq engines are so expencive!!!, i was thinking on the 5645MG, 7955TG hitec and use manual choke. (most of my airplanes has Futaba 3004, 3305 servos)

Battery:
here is where im lost...........a lot of people is telling me about regulators, lipos, A123.!!!! i know i need one for the ignition system... which one??? for the rx?. It will be amazing if you can number whats the parts i need to fly the new toy soon.

Do i missing something else???(on normal scale is, motor, servos, rx and battries, no much).

BTW i have 8ch radio and 7 ch 2.4 radios.

Thanks a lot for your time and help.

flatspinjim

My Feedback: (3)

Any plane from Wildhare, Aeroworks,or 3D Hobby Shop will work great for you. I like the Wildhares myself. I would stay with the better known dealers. I've seen some of the cheaper companys planes that sounded like a great deal but were total diesasters.
The DLE 55 seems to be a good engine. Quite a few at my field and everyone seems quite happy with them. I have their 100 and it runs great.
As far as servos I would buy the best you can afford. Make sure they are metal geared.
For batteries I prefer the A123's for the reciever and for the ignition a good ol 4.8 nicad will serve the purpose very well.
On a 50cc plane one 2300 A123 going into a Smart Fly super switch with two leads going to the reciever will be plenty.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

WildHare, Aeroworks, SD Models, several others...all make quality aircraft.

As a recommendation, while I would not steer anyone away from the brands mentioned above, i can tell you first hand that Wildhare sells EXCEPTIONAL airframes, and offers service and support that is second to none. You will not be disappointed if you do business with them.

As for the airframes themselves, though you'll surely find much discussion and debate on this issue, it seems that the following is generally true:

Yaks tend to LOVE to knife edge.
Extras ADORE tumbling
Edges are the kings of high alpha/high AoA

I've owned a DL-50 (the predecessor to the DLE 55), and currently fly a DLE 111 in my WildHare Edge. Both were/are excellent performers at a very attractive price. i DO highly recommend purchasing a DL/DLE from an authorized dealer in the states. You can definitely find them cheaper on Fleabay, but the authorized dealers can and do provide excellent support. Again, I can highly recommend WildHare here.

You also can't go wrong with a DA product. Their support is also legendary, though you will pay more for the motor.

Finally, for 50cc aircraft, do not overlook the Zenoah G-62 option. A gentleman by the name of Ralph Cunningham at RC Ignitions can convert them to electronic ignition, lighten them significantly, and send you back a true HORSE of a motor. They run forever, never seem to break, and can be found pretty inexpensively. I've owned no less than 3 of them, and adored every one.

As Jim said above...servos are largely personal preference. Just make sure to meet or exceed the minimum torque requirements asked for by the manufacturer.

He is right, however...do NOT try to save a few bucks here. Buy high quality, well built servos. Even if they cost more, in the long run, you're looking at a $1500 or so investment in an airplane...why risk it to a cheap servo just to save a few bucks?

One note here...there is a "new" line of high torque servos called "HD Power" servos. They are CONSIDERABLY less expensive than most of the other options out there, and seem to be just right for the 50-85cc class of airplanes. While i can not speak from personal experience, they seem to be getting good field reviews, and are beginning to be carried by some reputable RC companies (such as Wildhare, again) that are known not to sell garbage. Worth considering.

You'll get a dozen different answers here, to be sure. But in general, here's the things to keep in mind:

50cc and larger airplanes draw SIGNIFICANTLY more current to [pwer all those big servos than your .40-.60 sized planes do...you need to be able to reliably meet those demands. As a result, I recommend not using ANY sort of nickel pack (NiCd or NiMh) on the Rx...instead use LiPo/LiIon or A123 packs.

This forum is full of various discussions on the merits of each. be aware, however, that GENERALLY you'll probably need a regulator with LiPo pack(s), and NOT need one with A123's. there are, of course, exceptions to both cases.

On the ignition, I happen to prefer a regulated 2 cell LiPo, but plenty run 4-5cell NiCd or NiMh packs with no issues. IMO, the smaller nickel packs tend not to handle the current demands of an ignition as well, but again...just personal preference.

Probably the single biggest thing you can do for your best chance at success is:

TAKE
YOUR
TIME

Big gassers are a new world from the smaller glow sized airplanes. They vibrate more (a LOT more), they have higher demands for current to servos and other electronics, they introduce an ignition for the motor, they produce interference for 72MhZ systems, etc etc etc.

Take your time with the setup. By this, i mean consider the following sorts of things:

When running servo leads...keep them neat, clean, and organized. Consider getting some crimpers and making your own extensions, to get the right length. Use high quality heavy duty extensions.
Clamp, heat shrink, or otherwise secure EVERy servo-extension connection.
Route fuel and smoke tubing cleanly, and secure it in place.
Use heavy duty switches and battery connections.
Mount things like receivers, regulators, etc securely. Mount them on or in foam rubber. Strap them down well using zip ties, velcro straps, etc. Fuel tubing over zip ties will keep them from chaffing.

Basically, just take your time, and get things RIGHT...every time, every connection, every cable. When you've got 15-20 lbs of $1500+ airplane up there, you do NOT want to be wondering if that $6 cheap extension might come unplugged from the elevator servo, ya know? It'll take longer and cost a bit more to set the airplane up well, but it WILL reward you for your attention to detail and high quality.

===============

Last but not least...ENJOY IT! Bigger really does fly better...let's face it, there's a reason manufacturers like to say their small airplanes "fly like a much bigger airplane".

camss69

My Feedback: (46)

All I'm going to add is make sure you go with quality items.

There really is no area to save money on these things.

I see guys all the time try to get into gas planes and they go buy some junker airframe, marginal servos, and some engine I've never even heard of and then they get out to the field and have nothing but problems.

I think the best piece of advice is to see what the guys at your field are flying and choose something similar. If they are flying Aeroworks airframes, Hitec servos and JR transmitters, chances are they know how to set them up and will be able to assist you should you need it.

If it's working for them it will probably work for you too.

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

hi there everyone, i have to say a BIG thanks!!!!, i have years flying but to be honest i just have like 4 months with my futaba 2.4 7C, before i was using a super 8 and very old aitronics Tx so you can imagine how is this stuff, a lot of NEW things for me.

I never saw any Wildhare Airplane but wow!!! but $469 for the Edge 88" windspan!!! sound what a deal, compared to the almost $700 usd of the aeroworks.( i have AW 46.60 Edge and i love it).

Def. i will use the DLE 55 engine on the 50CC airplane i was thinkin on 35cc airplane but most of the people on the field told me that will be a little more difficult to find another 35cc if i want to reuse this engine later so i think i will keep 50cc option for my first choice... so engine idea is clear now.

About the ignition and the battery, i think i can use NimH battery. SORRY FOR MY Ignorance but the battery is connected directly to the ignition system?. I saw there is a switch for the ignition but thats the only thing i know.[]

On the sevos...def. I will save money to get the best and protect my investment, i saw the hitec 7955TG for $87 each which is very good price so i think i will go with them. Or maybe HD Power??? i saw a lot of reviews on the web...and most of the poeple said good things about it...also the price is half than HITEC.

Talking about the RX, whats the best regulator to use lipo packs? im very familiar with lipos cause my helis 500ESP and 450 use them, but you just plug it with the ESC and thats it, lets fly. To be more specific. You use a regulator that you plug the lipo and then into the rx?.(i feel so ignorant asking all this but i prefer to ask to buy something that is not). And what about the A123´s you just plug in to the rx?. Whats the main difference?. whats the Volt on the A123 battery pack?.

I never have time to think about the high quality heavy duty extensions and switches..what brand is the popular?. OMG i just read all my questions and it seems that you guys will almost build my airplane lol, thanks a lot for all your time and patience on this but for me is important te recognize that in not my area........ask me about performance parts for any truck or car and i will be a master not the noob.

flatspinjim

My Feedback: (3)

On the ignition you just use a switch between the battery and the ignition module to turn the power on and off.
I prefer the 123 batteries for the reciever. They run at a steady 6.6 volts, no regulator needed. You can charge them at up to ten amps and you should be able to get over 500 cycles out of them.
I have two Wildhare planes, the 100cc Extra and the 100cc Edge. You can't beat the price, quality, or the service you get from the owner Tom. He's always happy to answer any question you have. You might want to check into his package deals. I believe the package on the 88 inch Edge with the DLE 55, hardware kit, prop and spinner is about 900 dollars, pretty hard to beat!

maineflyer

My Feedback: (44)

I have switched all my big planes to A123s. A single A123 can handle anything up to 100cc can through at it. The nice thing is they recharge in 15 minutes and they don't loose anything over time. A cellpro 4s charger is all you need. The other thing that was mentioned is switch redundancy for your receiver. You could use 2 HD switches, a smartfly or a Fromeco wolverine, all will accomplish what you need. One thing with this size plane vs a small glow plane is safety. I recommend going over everything and I mean everything 2 times before you fly then have someone else who flys check it again. (making sure all servo connections are either taped, shink wrapped or something and use lock tight (blue) on metal to metal connections. Pin the fire wall etc. I usually fly the first flight and come in and check everything again and after the first fully day I bring it home and tear it down and check everything one more time. You can get wire chaffing or a loose connection that will ruin your day and possibly someone else's really quickly with this size plane and up (not that you can't with a glow plane) but the vibration is much greater with this size gas. One last tip balance your prop and spinner and it will reduce some of that vibration.
Jeff

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

First, let me echo something camss69 said, once again.

He's dead right. Buy quality.

You'll learn, over time as you build a few big ones, where you can find items that you're comfortable with that might save you a few bucks. Just as an example:

Airwild Hobbies offers some EXTREMELY high quality extensions, made from silicone coated heavy gauge wire, that are less than half the cost of some of their counterparts. You wouldn't think extensions would be a big deal, but in a 50 or 100cc plane, you can spend close of $100 on em if you're not careful! You can do even better with AirWild's equipment for making your own extensions.

So yeah...there ARE some places you can save a few bucks...but you've got to evaluate things carefully, and use high quality stuff.


I have to admit, I'm glad you're interested in the WildHare stuff. Again, I certainly can't and won't say anything bad about any of the other well known brands. In fact, by second hand experience, i can certainly suggest considering Performance Aircraft or SD Models...both make exceptional airplanes.

Admittedly, however...I AM partial to WildHare. As Jim said, you can't beat the price, quality, and service from Tom. That sort of thing means a whole lot to me, and I will do everything I can to reward him for doing business the right way by encouraging as many folks as I can to consider his stuff.

All I can say here is I can recommend the 7955TG's. Yes, they're probably more than you need for a 50cc airframe, but if you've got the budget, you won't be sorry you bought them. If they ARE "overkill", that's fine...you're simply not asking them to work very hard, which will extend their lives greatly....AND you'll have them around when and if you step up to an even larger bird.

Again on the HD Power...can't help ya there. Certainly haven't heard anything negative about them yet, but I just don't know well enough to make informed comment.

Jim covered the A123 side of that, i'll address the LiPo side.

"Best" regulator is, of course, highly subjective. I've had very good luck with both Fromeco regulators and Radio South regulators. The key thing when looking is make sure they'll be able to handle the amperage needed for your bigger servos. Both of those I mentioned will do 10A or better, so they're easily going to be fine for anything in the 50cc range.

There are certainly others, and many I'm sure that will work equally well..I just don't know about them first hand.

As for the connections, when using a regulated lipo system, it's usually : LiPo -> Switch -> Regulator -> Rx

And don't worry about feeling ignorant. ignorance simply means you don't know something yet. Why would you? you've never done this! You've identified the things you don't know, you're asking questions, and doing your research. That's PRECISELY the way an intelligent man goes about resolving his ignorance on an issue.

As I mentioned above...I happen to like AirWild's Twisted HD extensions : http://www.airwildpilotshop.com/More...product&id=213 or making my own using their twisted HD cable http://www.airwildpilotshop.com/More...product&id=568

But there are several brands out there, many work quite well. Indeed, Tom at WildHare offers several package deals on servos that include the extensions!

Once again...don't sweat it. You ARE a noob to this...we all were! As I said, you are, imo, going about it exactly the right way. You're doing your homework!

Besides...if i ever need to hop up a truck, I'll no where to turn when I'M the noob!!

cjcyclesrc

My Feedback: (10)

Batteries/Power systems-

-A lot of good info here- http://www.hangtimes.com/
-A123 are the best way to go in my opinion. 6.6V no regulator required
-Hitec 7955's can run on a 2S lipo without a regulator.
-If you are set on running a reg. The Smart-Fly Super Reg is a great setup. http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Regulator/3.htm


Airplanes-

I would recommend to look at some Extreme Flight RC planes. http://www.extremeflightrc.com/ The Yak and Extra are sweet airplanes. I've got hundreds of flights on my Extra now and it's holding up great. There is also an Extreme Flight Edge coming out soon. I checked it out at the Joe Nall and it is sweet. Chris Hinson(owner) is a great guy and a very good pilot himself.
A few good videos with my Extra flying:
http://vimeo.com/4465171
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a03NKjY_qA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=798mjxyRkf8

Another cool airplane to look at the 3D HobbyShop AJ Slick.

Servo's/ Extensions-

Hitec 7955's all the way. They are an overkill on a 50cc, but they don't cost that much more and have a much better gear set. Hitec makes the best extensions I have seen. Their Heavy Duty Twisted wire extensions are the same wire and connectors as the 7955's come with.

Motor-

I won't comment on the DLE since I haven't owned one. I prefer to do business with Desert Aircraft. I've had 3 brillelli 60's and they are great but you can't get them anymore.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

One thing I would mention that I haven't seen here.

Be sure and put a kill switch on your plane. This is extremely important. Do not try to fly without one.

I use the Smart Fly optical kill switch. I usually get mine from AirWild but they are availble elsewhere. About $50 but very VERY necessary. Do not forget it or try to fly without one.

I 2nd/3rd/4th the use of Wild Hare products. I'm building the 88" Edge right now and putting the DLE55 in it. I putting the HS7955 servos in mine and using a A123 battery. Tom has a nice packaged deal on the A123 batteries with a charger. Very nice.

The airplane is a very high quality product (as good as any I've seen) and builds easily with the already hinged surfaces. Pretty neat. And you'll love the way a big Edge flys.

Anyways, good luck and have fun with this.

Thanks
Barry

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

I don't know if this was mentioned earlier , but i strongly suggest staying away from the Hitec 5645 servos. Go all 7955's or save a little money and go with the 7985's.....they are both great servos. I have had 3 ( three!) 5645's fail on me. I have no idea why , but it seems like the gear train is extremely weak for some reason. It cost me one airplane , i saved the bird on the second time and the third one was caught before i took off for a flight. I had 5 of these total for a little 1.20 glow plane i had , i have 2 left , they still seem really smooth......but i will not use them. I have used the 5955's , 7955's and the 7985's and 5985's and had great luck with all of them. Some have close to a 100 flights and are still tight and smooth as silk. One more thing....the higher powered hitecs i have noticed , seem a little "notchy" for about the first 20 flights , until the get broke in. I'll actually spend some time with my airplane in the garage and work the servos back and forth for about a 1/2 hr ( while installed on the airplane , plugged in on the aircraft , using the radio.) to make sure everything is running smoothly , and break the servos in a little. It's also a good time before maiden flight to check your "amp draws" as well.....you could have 1 -2 servos binding slightly , which cause the RX batteries to drain quickly and you are straining the servo itself. Always check for binding servos!

Waynesworld

You will like this plane i am currently running it with a dle55, awsome power,just getting ready to switch to a vess 23a too many rpms with a meijzlik 22x8 7620 Planes is very light and takes off in about 6' Best 50cc plane i have right now by far

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Large planes are not at all difficult to set up, just a little different from what you have experienced before. The hardware has to be larger and stronger out of necessity. Wildhare, and some of the other distributors, make available all the better hardware for large scale applications. Once stepping up to giant scale the days of shopping at Tower for the budget priced and average or lower quality products are behind you.

You're plane will only be as good or as reliable as the equipment used in it. This most definately includes the quality of the servos used. Go cheap and hope for the best or go with known quality and rarely suffer failure. It's a personal decision but saving a couple hundred dollars to risk over a thousand is not sound business decision making. The same holds with gas engines. You can go shopping and come up with some great China direct prices but when things go wrong, they stay wrong. Go to a U.S. dealer for the engine of your choice that has a known reputation for good service. There are some real good ones out there. You'll pay a little more but you'll have the assurance that if you need repairs or parts, someone will be there to service your needs.

For the record, I'm a dyed in the wool Wildhare supporter, and after owing and flying nearly everyone of their products, feel that you cannot go wrong with the quality, service, or pricing. You can pay more for a plane but you will be hard pressed to find one that flys better. Better still, you can "one stop shop" for most everything you'll need or want to get the plane in the air, saving a lot of time and money in product searches and shipping charges.

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

hey everyone, thanks for all the comments, all your post have been so great that my eyes are much more open of what a giant scale airplane involve, to be honest, im more happy and excited about this project. Today i was at my shop working almost full time, in my short free time i went to all the internet webpages searching around about reviews of airplanes. When i saw one that too my attention a lot.

I was reading almost for 2 hours after my dinner about the Wildharerc Edge 540T, a lot of great reviews and videos. Maybe is not a valid to compare my AW 46-60 Edge 540 with a Giant Scale but i really like how the leading wing edge of this airplane helps to make the approach and landings so easy with or without wind. As i said, dont know if the desing in a Giant bird does to same thing than small one but i think in general it does. Also i really like the colors and canopy of the WH Edge 84", very good price compared of the AW Edge with cost almost $700. Maybe it worth it but for now i need to take care my wallet to invest money in good electronics.

The idea or the Engine is clear, i will get the DLE55cc from authorized dealer to have someone good in future repairs or service. About the Servos, i think i will get the 7955 for the rudder, aileron, elevator and Or should i go with the 7985?. On the throttle some people says that is not good to have digital servos there due the vibration. let me know if that is a good option or maybe other one. Some one told me a lot of good things about Power HD DS120 servos.... which is getting my attention cause is 1/3 of hitec price. Any comment will be great about it.

About the battery, i saw a great value from Tom and Wild Hare RC, complet A123 set with charger for $139. So i think i will go with that...seems to be cheaper than invest on a regulator plus lipo batteries.

One question is.. what is a "kill switch"?.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

A kill switch is just that....You keep it handy for when you crash your new 50CC bird. After the crash....you hit the kill switch and end it all.

Thanks
Barry

maineflyer

My Feedback: (44)

You hook the kill switch to one of your channels and it kills power to the ignition thus killing the engine. As Barry said for safety it is a must. Smart fly and 42% make good optical ones. (they have a light so you can see when the juice is on). This way if the plane gets out of control or you have a servo failure you can shut the engine down with just the flip of a switch.
Jeff

camss69

My Feedback: (46)

If you have the money for the 7955' I would recommend them. The vibration on the gas motors is much higher than a nitro model and much harder on servo gears. You will most likely never have to replace the gears on the 7955 where as the 7985 you probably will. The bulletproof gear train and the ability to run on unregulated 2 cell lipo power of the 7955 is why I run them. Not to mention that if and when you decide to move up to 100cc you can take the servos with you and put them in the new plane where the 7985's would be underrated for most applications.

I've been using a standard digital on throttle for years without any problems. Just make sure you disconnect but do not remove the throttle spring on the carb. I tend to stay away from the hitec brand unless they are the 59xx or 79xx series so for my throttle servos I've been using standard jr digitals.

Like the other guys have said, an ignition kill is also a VERY good investment. I've had to use mine on 3 occasions, all three would have been PITA's but with the throttle kill you just line the plane up on final and hit the switch at the right time. I have used both the 42% products and the Smart-Fly units and I prefer the Smart-Fly just because the configuration makes it a little easier to work into your particular application. They both work equally well and do the same thing.

cjcyclesrc

My Feedback: (10)

LOL!!!! Does the transmitter blow up to end it all or does it electrocute you? Maybe some toxic gas blows out.

cjcyclesrc

My Feedback: (10)

It is a switch operated from the signal from your transmitter. When the transmitter sends the signal, The Kill will turn the ignition on. The benefit is that you can turn the ignition on or off from your transmitter. Also if your Receiver did loose power the kill will automatically kill the motor. This means you have less distance to walk to pick up the wreckage.

Here is the one I use. http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Ignition/ignition.htm

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

ok, so there is no throttle cut like small planes in a switch using the th servo.

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

Yes....depending on your radio you can set up a thottle kill on it , just like a glow. The throttle works the same way for either gas or glow. I use the smartfly optical kill and it works great. I have a failsafe setup on it , so if i lose reception with the aircraft ( ie : lockout.....TX and RX quit talking to each other) the smartfly optical kill will automatically kill the motor. I have it setup on my Futaba 10C on the big , upper left flipper switch as well. After a landing , i just flick the switch for ease of killing the motor. It's always a good idea to have 2-3 different ways to kill your engine.

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

sounds really interesting, if you just plug it into the rx seems to be nice and cheap investment. I was reading all the manuals, also some info on the web. So the elevator use 2 diferent servos like the ailerons, something came to my mind last night. The elevator is connected in the same channel, but how can you work with how many deg. each servos has? i mean both should work the same speed, range with the signal/input that you give from the rx. If there is some difference on each side of the elevator how do you correct it? mechanically?.
I have an 7C 2.4 which i will use it, so im trying to see why most of the giants ask for 8 channel radios.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

In some radios, you can mix those two elevator servos. Depends on the radio, its programming capabilities, number of channels, etc.

There's also the JR Matchbox or Smart-Fly Equalizer that will do that job as well. I have a strong preference for using this method, but like so many other things, just personal choice.

cjcyclesrc

My Feedback: (10)

Hitec servos can be programmed. You can set the direction and throws.

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

sounds good. Well right now is time to search for the best combo/price at different shops. Im selling a few things to complete this project. Also i have some questions, i like the extra 260/300 and the Edge 540T. Can you guys please tell me whats the main difference in flying, landings and 3D for the 3 airplanes. As i said before my .60 Edge can land really good at slow speeds and i like that. Also one more question, some people says that the 7955 is a overkill servo for 50cc, i dont think i will get 100cc on the future(at least i need to buy a bigger, car, house and rooms lol so is not soon). What should be a servo that work fast and fine on this size. Of course is important to see the difference in price cause if is not much, well we can get the 7955.