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Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

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Old 02-12-2010, 11:49 AM
  #76
drbyrnes
 
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

I've had cracks and structural failures of carbon fiber LG on other smaller planes in the past. I land very smoothly almost every landing; but one set of gear failed on a Hangar-9 Funtana X-100 when I simply did a very tight turn on the ground, in control, but just short of a ground loop. Upon inspection of the cracked gear, it appearred that there were air bubbles in the material. I often ended up buying aluminum gear from TNT as well. I guess I'd give the supplied gear a chance too, but watch them carefully for cracks. Overall, for me, aluminum gear has been a much more resliant material. But, then we are all concerned about the weight of this new M-12s, so aluminum would add even more weight.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:24 PM
  #77
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Are the hinged surfaces "pre-hinged" or must they be glued?
This is one sweet looking plane. The "Performance Series" from Great Planes has proven to be very good. I have the CAP and the 50CC Reactor. Both are excellent quality and fly very well.

I'm seriously looking at this as my first biplane.


thanks
Barry
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:32 PM
  #78
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

The ailerons are pre-hinged but the elevators and rudder must be hinged by the modeler.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:46 PM
  #79
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Jimkim,

Thank you for the your input. I appreciate the fact that one of the creators of this aircraft is chiming in with information and advice. I will be starting the assembly of my M-12 this weekend. So far the weight, or lack thereof, is impressing me. The extremely thin wing airfoil reminds me of the self designed Ultimate I did in the mid 90's. I used a 9.5% NACA airfoil and the plane flew the then masters pattern very well.

Bliksem

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Old 02-12-2010, 10:00 PM
  #80
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Bliksem,

Did your plane come with the spinner? I thought that it was included...

Perry
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:23 AM
  #81
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: PTS

Bliksem,

Did your plane come with the spinner? I thought that it was included...

Perry
Perry,

Nope, no spinner. The documentation does state that this part is not included, even though the parts layout picture includes a spinner. Strange that they chose not to include the spinner as GP's Extra and Ultimate included aluminum spinners.

Bliksem


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Old 02-14-2010, 03:02 PM
  #82
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

I started work on my M12 today. Pics are here: http://bliksemseplek.com/m12.html

I added CA to the joints that seemed to need some attention and mounted the DLE55. So far, so good. No rush as I am on a weeks vacation.

This plane is very well built and I think it will be an excellent flyer.

Bliksem

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Old 02-14-2010, 04:12 PM
  #83
mm
 
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

hello bliksem,

can you tell us the total weight of kit ?

thank you

Stephane
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:24 AM
  #84
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Hello guys.

RE: Spinner- The scale shaped spinner for this airplane is rather large. Initially we went ahead and used a spinner that was made just like the other Performance Series offerings...but it was far too heavy. We needed a lighter weight spinner...so we went ahead and designed a proper CNC machined bar stock spinner painted to match the airplane. The spinner would have raised the kit price up to much in our opinion....so like the majority of airplanes sold in this category....we did not include a spinner with this kit.
They will be available soon.

thanks,
George
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:29 PM
  #85
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

IT will be a BAR stock spinner???
NICE.....
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:32 PM
  #86
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: SMALLFLY-

For what it's worth I emailed great planes and they did verify real weights of 19-20 lbs, bummer I really wanted one, but 19.5 lbs on a 50 is just to much for real 3d
So why in the He!! would you use a 50cc if you don't think it has enough power???

i must say, that the only one that truely knows how something flies, is the guy that actually OWNs and FLYS THE PLANE>....

Half of the nosays probly haven't OWNED a plane past a TRAINER!..... But there all experts??
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:44 AM
  #87
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mm

hello bliksem,

can you tell us the total weight of kit ?

thank you

Stephane
Stephane,

I listed the weights of different pieces on the page in the link I posted earlier - http://bliksemseplek.com/m12.html All weights included that packaging material in the pics. The AUW is still not known as I have not yet completed the build.

I have had a number of my friends over to look this plane over. Had to wipe drool off it. Scott said after lifting the pieces, "this is an AIR-plane!" We are all impressed with the light weight, good design and construction of the pieces.

The finished AUW will be greatly affected by the other bits the builders add. I am not going the "save weight above all else" route. I will be using a R168DP RX, 1 x 4-cell 1100mAh NiCd for ignition & 2 x 5-cell 2000mAh Eneloop for RX (2 switches). Servos are all standard size - exact models TBD.

I have, without saying, read and reread the manual a number of times. I never follow the sequence of these as I have my personal preferences. I always start by first doing covering work inspection and fixing, if needed. Then I inspect and possible glue & reglue any joints that need it. On this plane the glue work is definitely above average. Few joints needed some CA retouching.

Mounting the engine, together with the tank, servos & linkages, is done before everything else. Once completed the engine is removed and stored until everything else is done. IMHO this prevents much hanger rash.

Yesterday I finished mounting the DLE55. This included modifying the carburettor control arms to accept 2 servos, one for choke and one for throttle. A DuBro 14oz tank is used, plumbed with 2 clunks, one Walbro felt and one brass. Both servos are mounted, carbon control rods fitted
and radio programmed. I use my favorite 9Z. The left slider is mixed to the throttle to give me fine control on the bottom of the throttle curve, ie idle. The LD wheel is used to control the choke. All my gassers are done like this. I will take some pics today and upload to my website to show progress.

The cowl and muffler are to be done later today. I will be using the stock muffler that is shipped with the DLE55. I did use the stock stand-offs that shipped as well. BTW - the inclusion of both the muffler and stand-offs with this engine makes it a very economical package.

BTW - All doubters out there: put up or shut up. Better yet, show and tell!

Bliksem
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:10 PM
  #88
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

I get 4133g for the parts you have listed. Add another ~1000g for the rx/servos/batteries and another ~2100g for the engine/motor/hardware/prop/spinner/fuel tank and you are looking at 7233g.

That is 255 oz or 15.9 lbs. Still need to add in the landing gear/wheels, wing/stab tubes, miscellaneous hardware. All of these remaining things should easily come in under 1500g.

So far this plane should come in under 19#. On 1545 sq in of wing area. Sounds like a winner!
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:53 PM
  #89
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

I finished mounting the engine and fitting of the cowl today. Some pics here: http://bliksemseplek.com/m12.html

Tank is plumbed and fitted as well. I have not yet taken any pics of the tank and cowl fitted, but will do so soon. The weather here in deep south Texas is currently carpy, like the rest of the US. I am planning on the maiden to be this coming saturday. The wings, stab & fin should be done tomorrow. So far this plane build is easy with no surprises.

Bliksem

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Old 02-17-2010, 11:37 AM
  #90
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Looks great! Very clean install pics.
George
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:32 PM
  #91
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: GP G-Rod

Looks great! Very clean install pics.
George
Thanks George. I believe in clean, simple, installations. These are much less prone to failure and are simple to inspect during pre-flight checks. IMHO

Progress report:

I finsished the power plant, tank, ignition & cowl installation.

I was not happy with the supplied baffle so made my own - I am not sure that it won't crack & fall apart after some fair use. I laminated, in cross grain, 2 layers of 1/16" contest grade balsa. I then fitted and expoxied this into the cowl. Flat black paint to finish. Here in deep south Texas the summer heat can and does kill engines that do not have proper provision for cooling.

Wing panels are joined and servos fitted. Horns and linkages to follow later this evening. Saturday maiden is most likely going to happen!

Bliksem

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Old 02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
  #92
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Have you tried using the Pop bottle gas tanks??

THey save weight, never leak, and stay put...
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:47 PM
  #93
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

It looks very nice Bliksem.

I went back to look at the specs for this plane. This is a VERY BIG biplane. The fuse is only 5 inches shorter than the 100cc QQ Python. It is going to look enormous on the flight line!
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:53 PM
  #94
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Yeah..IT looks big.....

When COx had there Pitts out, they went with up to a 75cc recomendation...

They were selling them out at 250$ with 25$ shipping!!! WISH I WISH....
..........................................

This would make a great airframe to fly around a seidel 7-70 radial....
THey have started making them again and I am going to pick one up!.....
And for the price of one of these jewls it is a steal.. IMHO....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1Uj3zMato
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:13 AM
  #95
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kochj

Yeah..IT looks big.....

When COx had there Pitts out, they went with up to a 75cc recomendation...

They were selling them out at 250$ with 25$ shipping!!! WISH I WISH....
..........................................

This would make a great airframe to fly around a seidel 7-70 radial....
THey have started making them again and I am going to pick one up!.....
And for the price of one of these jewls it is a steal.. IMHO....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1Uj3zMato
I jumped when they were $400 plus shipping. I have a new ZDZ 80 going in mine.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:21 PM
  #96
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Well folks, I did not maiden today. The last 10% of the job always takes 90% of the time!

I am ready to maiden in the morning though. I have updated my website with some pics. http://bliksemseplek.com/m12.html

Some observations regarding the build:

Be careful of the step where you glue in the stab. The covering on mine needed to be cut back about 1/4". If not done you will be glueing to covering alone - not good.

I was planning to use 2 x 5-cell Eneloop battery packs. I changed this to 2 x 2-cell Lion packs because the CG would have ended up being too much rearward. This bird seems to tend being tail-heavy when using a light engine. The test flight in the am will establish proper battery placement.

I have a lot of screws and other bits left over after the build. The proverbial kitchen sink of included hardware.

Overall a easy yet time intensive build. The wing structure once assembled is very rigid. This aircraft seems to have good potential for accurate aerobatics.

No, I have not weighed it yet - don't ask. I actually don't know any of my aircrafts weights. I no longer fly competition pattern so don't care about weights. I dynamically balance and trim and then fly the H out of them.

Bliksem

BTW - We did test run he DLE55. Swings a Bambula 23x10 with much authority. We ran the engine for about 10 minutes. It is a powerhouse.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:13 PM
  #97
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Hi folks,
My M-12 is now officially an aircraft. Conditions were less than perfect, 10mph 90* crosswind and about 70* temp. I did 2 flights only as the weather freshened to 15-20mph N, the runway being E-W. Considering that I have not flown in more than a year and that the field (an undeveloped subdivision street) is unfamiliar to me I did very well IMHO. None of that magazine review weather where the winds are light and everything smells like jasmine.

Plane flies very well. My face is hurting from the hours-long smile. (I this like the Cialis ad where I need to consult a physician if it lasts longer that 4 hours?)

An after flight inspection at home revealed that even though I had landed quite gently the right landing gear leg is starting to delaminate on the curve into the fuse. Grrrr. Polyester resin landing gear NEVER last. Too brittle & fragile IMHO. A call to TNT will follow in the morning. I am disgusted that the Tower hobbies information page for this AC lists the UC to be bent aluminum.

I set up my AC with the recommended high rate throws and softened it with 40% expo on all surfaces. This plane flies on a rail and handles very light. Precision aerobatics are a snap. Slow rolls and crisp start-stop movements are easy. To the developers of this AC, a toast, you have created a winner. (Why is there no smiley for a toast?)

Additional pics posted. See here: http://bliksemseplek.com/m12.html

Biksem


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Old 02-22-2010, 12:21 AM
  #98
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D

Very NIce!......

The is one sharp looking plane.......

I knew that it would fly very well.....

...............

Gee thanks....Now I want one!.....[sm=tongue_smile.gif]
Too many planes in the 26-100cc size right now though....
Too bad it wasn't a 150cc size!!![8D]


Does it fly like a monoplane?
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:22 AM
  #99
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mrbigg
I jumped when they were $400 plus shipping. I have a new ZDZ 80 going in mine.
Rub it in why don't you!!
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:28 AM
  #100
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Default RE: Great Planes 25% Pitts M-12s 3D


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kochj

Very NIce!......

The is one sharp looking plane.......

I knew that it would fly very well.....

...............

Gee thanks....Now I want one!.....[sm=tongue_smile.gif]
Too many planes in the 26-100cc size right now though....
Too bad it wasn't a 150cc size!!![8D]


Does it fly like a monoplane?
Thanks for the compliments. Also, you can never have too many planes.....

Nope, does not fly like a monoplane. Flies just like a Christen Eagle & Ultimate Bipes. Lots of cross-coupling is the nature with these types of aircraft. It feels and flies very similarly to my GP 160 Ultimate & my BME Ultimate.

If somebody who has never flown these types before wants to get into them here is a little tip: Learn to fly the rudder! Yank & Bank will not work.

I have not weighed the plane but the will do so next time I have it assembled. The best guesstimates by a few that have lifted is that it is around 16-17lbs. It flies very lightly and tracks very well. The DLE55 pulls it with little effort. Slow flight can be maintained at high idle. The fat fuselage belies its slickness. Unlimited vertical climb-out at just under half throttle. The roll-rate is rapid. Snap rolls are nice and knife-edge flight is stable. Both hands are needed to work the knife-edge of course as adverse roll & pitch are quite evident - typical bipe-style. The only monoplane that I have flown that is similar would be a CAP232.

The Monokote covering showed a few spots that need attention after being in the sun for a few hours. It was about 80* with partly cloudy yesterday. Once I have done the few touch-ups the bling-bling work will be done. Lots of nice white areas to fill in.

Bliksem
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