Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
01-19-2010, 10:24 AM
#51
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 4,104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
Jake,
So....we just leave everything as status quo? I still think it would be nice to know what someone with a decent knowledge of planes and how to set them up thinks of a plane before I buy one. Right now we got nothing of any worth at all. I've read many magazine reviews and they all do a crappy job. Basically you get nothing of worth. I'd much rather hear something on these forums.
Regarding waterfalls....wouldn't it be nice to know that the EF planes do them slow and other planes are capable of doing them faster. That's a difference in the way two planes fly. Unsightly screws? So you are saying there is no room for improvement? I say there is. Do the screws really bother me? Yes. I think it is an area that could be improved. Tell the truth...wouldn't you rather have no unsightly screws vs. having unsightly screws? Oh and just for the record....if I hadn't have posted comments concerning flatspins and waterfalls etc with EF it wouldn't be known. There are differences in the way they fly. It isn't a terrible thing and maybe it's what most want. But somebody (RC media) should tell the story. They let their readers down terribly. In real life fact...I could write a more realistic and comparitive review personally than any I've seen in the magazines. I simply don't even waste money on them anymore until someone comes along that will do fair comparisons.
See we are already discussing something of substance. Don't get me wrong I don't want to make this hobby a job for me. I do enjoy building a lot of different planes and setting them up the best way I know how and sharing with others. But I find the criticism almost unbearable. But I actually really do try to see differences and tell it like it is. Others chose to only say the good and leave the other buried. If I'm buying a plane I wish there was someplace to go that would offer a realistic review that would honestly tell me the good and bad tendencies of a plane.
BTW you are just wrong on the motorcycle reveiws. They are extemely tough and complete. They expose every little thing. MXA takes 3 months to test a bike. The race it every weekend during that time. They use an expert, interemediate and novice racer and post the comments of each. They change gearing, shock oil hieghts, fork oil heights, air cleaners, tires, jetting and then at the end they usually tell of modifications they've made to make each bike better. You really expect their tests to be fair and honest. Obviously this is not something that we hobbiests can do with our airplanes. But it is something that the magazines should do. They would be surprised at how sales and adverstisers would increase if they had the nerve to really do it.
Thanks
BArry
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
Barry, I understand the goal you are trying to accomplish but the amount of work is takes to build, fly, setup, and fly a plane makes it nearly impossible to do a shootout for a magazine. There just isn't enough time. The average RCU review takes upwards of 80 hours all said and done for one 50cc plane. The other issues is you would almost want 5 engines so you could go back and forth and fly them. By the time you were working on the 5th one you it would be hard to give an accurate comparision to the 1st one unless you could throw it up in the air and refresh yourself with it.
I don't think you can really do an accurate comparision without having all 5 (or whatever number) in front of you and get to fly them on the same day a bunch of days in a row.
Add in the fact that everyone has different tastes, ''unslightly cowl screws'' personally, they don't bother me or many know from your postings you didn't like the way the EF yak did a waterfall, you don't like them slow and dramatic, you like them fast. I like them and dramatic, but there isn't a right or wrong way there. You also couldn't get flatspins to work the way you like, while others have no issues.
I am only using this as an example because I am most familar with these examples.. but I can think of another one. I was never really a fan of WH hardware, does it work? Sure it does, but I think others have much nicer hardware. I just think there are too many variations.
A bike you jump on and ride and put it through a bunch of tests. I don't think you are adjusting tire preasure, tweaking the shocks, etc. You don't have to worry about CG, rates, trim, thrust, etc.
Just my 2 cents.. not saying I wouldn't like to see it.
Barry, I understand the goal you are trying to accomplish but the amount of work is takes to build, fly, setup, and fly a plane makes it nearly impossible to do a shootout for a magazine. There just isn't enough time. The average RCU review takes upwards of 80 hours all said and done for one 50cc plane. The other issues is you would almost want 5 engines so you could go back and forth and fly them. By the time you were working on the 5th one you it would be hard to give an accurate comparision to the 1st one unless you could throw it up in the air and refresh yourself with it.
I don't think you can really do an accurate comparision without having all 5 (or whatever number) in front of you and get to fly them on the same day a bunch of days in a row.
Add in the fact that everyone has different tastes, ''unslightly cowl screws'' personally, they don't bother me or many know from your postings you didn't like the way the EF yak did a waterfall, you don't like them slow and dramatic, you like them fast. I like them and dramatic, but there isn't a right or wrong way there. You also couldn't get flatspins to work the way you like, while others have no issues.
I am only using this as an example because I am most familar with these examples.. but I can think of another one. I was never really a fan of WH hardware, does it work? Sure it does, but I think others have much nicer hardware. I just think there are too many variations.
A bike you jump on and ride and put it through a bunch of tests. I don't think you are adjusting tire preasure, tweaking the shocks, etc. You don't have to worry about CG, rates, trim, thrust, etc.
Just my 2 cents.. not saying I wouldn't like to see it.
Jake,So....we just leave everything as status quo? I still think it would be nice to know what someone with a decent knowledge of planes and how to set them up thinks of a plane before I buy one. Right now we got nothing of any worth at all. I've read many magazine reviews and they all do a crappy job. Basically you get nothing of worth. I'd much rather hear something on these forums.
Regarding waterfalls....wouldn't it be nice to know that the EF planes do them slow and other planes are capable of doing them faster. That's a difference in the way two planes fly. Unsightly screws? So you are saying there is no room for improvement? I say there is. Do the screws really bother me? Yes. I think it is an area that could be improved. Tell the truth...wouldn't you rather have no unsightly screws vs. having unsightly screws? Oh and just for the record....if I hadn't have posted comments concerning flatspins and waterfalls etc with EF it wouldn't be known. There are differences in the way they fly. It isn't a terrible thing and maybe it's what most want. But somebody (RC media) should tell the story. They let their readers down terribly. In real life fact...I could write a more realistic and comparitive review personally than any I've seen in the magazines. I simply don't even waste money on them anymore until someone comes along that will do fair comparisons.
See we are already discussing something of substance. Don't get me wrong I don't want to make this hobby a job for me. I do enjoy building a lot of different planes and setting them up the best way I know how and sharing with others. But I find the criticism almost unbearable. But I actually really do try to see differences and tell it like it is. Others chose to only say the good and leave the other buried. If I'm buying a plane I wish there was someplace to go that would offer a realistic review that would honestly tell me the good and bad tendencies of a plane.
BTW you are just wrong on the motorcycle reveiws. They are extemely tough and complete. They expose every little thing. MXA takes 3 months to test a bike. The race it every weekend during that time. They use an expert, interemediate and novice racer and post the comments of each. They change gearing, shock oil hieghts, fork oil heights, air cleaners, tires, jetting and then at the end they usually tell of modifications they've made to make each bike better. You really expect their tests to be fair and honest. Obviously this is not something that we hobbiests can do with our airplanes. But it is something that the magazines should do. They would be surprised at how sales and adverstisers would increase if they had the nerve to really do it.
Thanks
BArry
Well to be honest I have never read an RC magazine. I flipped through the AMA mag a couple times years ago and now I don't even open them. So I do agree with you, I don't think there is a lot of useful things in there.
Maybe I am biased but I don't think the RCU reviews are all that bad. The video is worth a lot and lets people see how it flies. You really don't have the time to take 40 flights and properly trim as plane as best as you can but it does give some insight. If there are something that is not liked the reviewer is not restricted to what they can say. I personally have been pretty lucky and not reviewed anything I didn't really like. The ones that had some issues I shared the issues.
That being said I think build threads are very valuable as well.
As far as the waterfall issue, that is a matter of size and can been seen in many videos. It's getting harder and harder to compare apples to apples because planes are getting lighter and larger. Look at the new Aerotech 119 Slick that is suppose to be around 28 pounds. How can you compare a 119" plane to 105" and keep it fair? Obviously a larger plane is going to fly better (for the most part). If you want a tight waterfall, larger planes are just out of the question unless you make it very tailheavy and loose everything else.
The cowl screws, they don't bother me, I honestly don't care either way. Maybe I am alone in that area.
I really don't know what the answer is... an unlimited pilot is going to be able to make any plane look good, a rookie pilot isn't capable of making valueable comparisions. Its a catch 22. We have a guy in the AMA mag giving poor gas engine advice.
As far as the motorcycle, sorry.. I was just making a general statement, I am not into that so I dont know anything about it. I assumed it was like car and driver or something where they put them through a series of tests, stock and score.
01-19-2010, 10:27 AM
#52
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 4,104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
closetguy...
Just for fun...what is the weakest flying attribute of this plane? You really make it sound good. 16lbs is very light. Did you do any work on it to get it that light? Of course the AirWild Extra is much lighter if lighter is better. But after reading on these forums it sounds like the trend is to heavier planes. They seem to fly better and the heavier the wing loading the better. At least that's the way it seems.
Also, please name three things you would change on this plane. Landing gear? Canopy hatch? Pocket hinges instead of the basic kind it comes with? Covering or visability? Take an honest look at the plane and let us know. I've flown the EF and WH planes and I'm thinking it's impossible for this to be that much better. Doesn't even hold a candle???????? I'm not even sure what that means.
Anyways...I like what you say about the 3D Hobby Shop Extra...but fill us in on what it is really like. Not just empty claims.
thanks
BArry
ORIGINAL: closetguy
After two pages i just had to jump in here and throw a wrench in the works.I know it says HW,EF,or Pilot 50cc but there is a plane that out flies the EF Yak hands down and the Pilot,it's called 3d HobbyShop Extra SHP.I have a EF Yak and have flown the Pilot RC Yak and both don't even hold a candle to the Extra SHP IMO.It has more wing area,flies slower and has no coupling at all in a knife edge,you just need the rudder to hold the nose up,one handed knife edges just with the left stick and it comes in at 16lbs. with a BME 58.
After two pages i just had to jump in here and throw a wrench in the works.I know it says HW,EF,or Pilot 50cc but there is a plane that out flies the EF Yak hands down and the Pilot,it's called 3d HobbyShop Extra SHP.I have a EF Yak and have flown the Pilot RC Yak and both don't even hold a candle to the Extra SHP IMO.It has more wing area,flies slower and has no coupling at all in a knife edge,you just need the rudder to hold the nose up,one handed knife edges just with the left stick and it comes in at 16lbs. with a BME 58.
closetguy...Just for fun...what is the weakest flying attribute of this plane? You really make it sound good. 16lbs is very light. Did you do any work on it to get it that light? Of course the AirWild Extra is much lighter if lighter is better. But after reading on these forums it sounds like the trend is to heavier planes. They seem to fly better and the heavier the wing loading the better. At least that's the way it seems.
Also, please name three things you would change on this plane. Landing gear? Canopy hatch? Pocket hinges instead of the basic kind it comes with? Covering or visability? Take an honest look at the plane and let us know. I've flown the EF and WH planes and I'm thinking it's impossible for this to be that much better. Doesn't even hold a candle???????? I'm not even sure what that means.
Anyways...I like what you say about the 3D Hobby Shop Extra...but fill us in on what it is really like. Not just empty claims.
thanks
BArry
A yak compared to an Extra... not remotely fair, I know of an Edge that is better than all 3. I mean you have to compare the same types of planes to each other.
01-19-2010, 11:25 AM
#53
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belton,
TX
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Coming from a long background in motorcycles, I would say there is a big difference in doing motorcycle reviews and airplane reviews. You can go down to the dealer and Get 10 KTM 950 Super Endros and all 10 will ride the same. You can throw it on a dyno and change pipes, jet the carb, put a turbo on it, and get a hard data sheet printed off. It is much harder to compare airplanes because the final product is built by the end user. When you go buy a bike they all have the same parts. You don’t install your own motor, forks, shocks, wheels, tires, brakes, etc. I've yet to find two people that set up a plane the exact same way. Airplane Variables: Motor, Exhaust, Prop, Spinner, Radio, Receiver, Batteries, Switches, Servos, Servo arms, Linkage Geometry, Throws, CG, weight, elevation, and more. It takes much more time to set up a plane and getting it dialed in than doing the little adjustments and mods that are done in motorcycle magazines. In the end it still just comes down to opinions. Just like the Waterfall, Flat spin thing that is your opinion. My opinion is different.
01-19-2010, 01:13 PM
#54
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Idaho Falls,
ID
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: cjcyclesrc
Coming from a long background in motorcycles, I would say there is a big difference in doing motorcycle reviews and airplane reviews. You can go down to the dealer and Get 10 KTM 950 Super Endros and all 10 will ride the same. You can throw it on a dyno and change pipes, jet the carb, put a turbo on it, and get a hard data sheet printed off. It is much harder to compare airplanes because the final product is built by the end user. When you go buy a bike they all have the same parts. You don’t install your own motor, forks, shocks, wheels, tires, brakes, etc. I've yet to find two people that set up a plane the exact same way. Airplane Variables: Motor, Exhaust, Prop, Spinner, Radio, Receiver, Batteries, Switches, Servos, Servo arms, Linkage Geometry, Throws, CG, weight, elevation, and more. It takes much more time to set up a plane and getting it dialed in than doing the little adjustments and mods that are done in motorcycle magazines. In the end it still just comes down to opinions. Just like the Waterfall, Flat spin thing that is your opinion. My opinion is different.
Coming from a long background in motorcycles, I would say there is a big difference in doing motorcycle reviews and airplane reviews. You can go down to the dealer and Get 10 KTM 950 Super Endros and all 10 will ride the same. You can throw it on a dyno and change pipes, jet the carb, put a turbo on it, and get a hard data sheet printed off. It is much harder to compare airplanes because the final product is built by the end user. When you go buy a bike they all have the same parts. You don’t install your own motor, forks, shocks, wheels, tires, brakes, etc. I've yet to find two people that set up a plane the exact same way. Airplane Variables: Motor, Exhaust, Prop, Spinner, Radio, Receiver, Batteries, Switches, Servos, Servo arms, Linkage Geometry, Throws, CG, weight, elevation, and more. It takes much more time to set up a plane and getting it dialed in than doing the little adjustments and mods that are done in motorcycle magazines. In the end it still just comes down to opinions. Just like the Waterfall, Flat spin thing that is your opinion. My opinion is different.
Very true what you say. But MXA really does personalize the motorcycles they test. I'm not argueing that there isn't a difference between motorcycles and RC Planes. I am saying that planes are more similar than you might think. Most have a recommended CG location, recommended servos, servo arms etc. Yes, engines, props, personal preference etc do customize a plane to a great deal. But there must be a way to evaluate them. Concerning stunts...there is a difference in a flat spin from an EF Yak and a GP Reator. Major difference. People should be able to read about that and what the differences. Somehow there must be away to evaluate the airplanes in an unbaised way. I certainly don't have the answers, just the desire to see something meaningful. I suppose in the MC industry some bikes triple jump better than others ( I only ride dirt bikes) and certainly the suspension is different on each of the brands. Readers seem to sort through the opinions of the testers and seem to figure it out. I know the bikes I buy (or don't buy) are influenced by the tests I read. But it is interesting that MXA says it one way and most everybody else says it differntly. I believe MXA because they have a long history of being fair and tough.
thanks
Barry
01-19-2010, 01:26 PM
#55
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Idaho Falls,
ID
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Below is a link to MXA shoot out for the most popular 250CC four stroke moto cross machines.I know nobody wants to read all this....but if you scroll to the bottom and see how the rated the machines from 1-5. Look at what they say about Honda. Yet Honda continues to advertise in their magazine because they know if they don't things will be worse than they are.
Also....Honda is my favorite brand and I have two of them. But I decided not to buy one this year mainly because of this test. But you know what....next year Honda will improve on the specific things listed here. I've seen it happen. The testers drive the manufacturers. That's the way it should be.
Thanks
Barry
http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/ME...1595FE15F50F4B
01-19-2010, 05:29 PM
#56
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belton,
TX
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
Very true what you say. But MXA really does personalize the motorcycles they test. I'm not argueing that there isn't a difference between motorcycles and RC Planes. I am saying that planes are more similar than you might think. Most have a recommended CG location, recommended servos, servo arms etc. Yes, engines, props, personal preference etc do customize a plane to a great deal. But there must be a way to evaluate them. Concerning stunts...there is a difference in a flat spin from an EF Yak and a GP Reator. Major difference. People should be able to read about that and what the differences. Somehow there must be away to evaluate the airplanes in an unbaised way. I certainly don't have the answers, just the desire to see something meaningful.
I suppose in the MC industry some bikes triple jump better than others ( I only ride dirt bikes) and certainly the suspension is different on each of the brands. Readers seem to sort through the opinions of the testers and seem to figure it out. I know the bikes I buy (or don't buy) are influenced by the tests I read. But it is interesting that MXA says it one way and most everybody else says it differntly. I believe MXA because they have a long history of being fair and tough.
thanks
Barry
Very true what you say. But MXA really does personalize the motorcycles they test. I'm not argueing that there isn't a difference between motorcycles and RC Planes. I am saying that planes are more similar than you might think. Most have a recommended CG location, recommended servos, servo arms etc. Yes, engines, props, personal preference etc do customize a plane to a great deal. But there must be a way to evaluate them. Concerning stunts...there is a difference in a flat spin from an EF Yak and a GP Reator. Major difference. People should be able to read about that and what the differences. Somehow there must be away to evaluate the airplanes in an unbaised way. I certainly don't have the answers, just the desire to see something meaningful. I suppose in the MC industry some bikes triple jump better than others ( I only ride dirt bikes) and certainly the suspension is different on each of the brands. Readers seem to sort through the opinions of the testers and seem to figure it out. I know the bikes I buy (or don't buy) are influenced by the tests I read. But it is interesting that MXA says it one way and most everybody else says it differntly. I believe MXA because they have a long history of being fair and tough.
thanks
Barry
Go out buy all of the planes you like the looks of and set them up the best you know how. Then lets say you find one you really like and post about how much you like it.
Someone else will just come along, call you a fan boy, and say your tests are biased.
01-19-2010, 10:33 PM
#58
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tuckerton,
NJ
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
That's just pure envy, the highest form of flattery. And Chris knows it.
That's just pure envy, the highest form of flattery. And Chris knows it.
01-20-2010, 11:27 AM
#59
My Feedback: (13)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: berlin hts,
OH
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Barry
Getting the plane to drop in a elevator with the nose up a little is probably the hardest for me,but i can only do the simplest of stunts.No rolling harriers or anything that requires skill
I had to use a 3.5 spinner to get it to the most aft CG and that brought the weight up to 16lbs. 4ozs. with the added spinner.But the nose drops a little when inverted,so i might be able to ditch the spinner.
One thing they did was to use a dowel rod for the anti rotation pins in the wings and no extra ring of ply in the fuse where the pins go through.
Wheel pants are weak didn't last long on a grass strip,but i never use them,just tried to get more weight up front.
When someone says (it doesn't even hold a candle to it) it means that what ever you are comparing is not in the same league with what you are comparing.
As far as calling this plane a extra,i think it's just a name, they had to call it something.
It dosen't look like any extra i have seen.The cowl looks more like a edge,the fuse is tall and kind of flat behind the canopy.And the control surface are larger than any extra i have seen.
It just easier for me to fly as far as flatspins up rite and inverted,my yak always is harder to get in a good inverted spin with out the tail whippin around,but i know that is probably due to me and my skills.
Getting the plane to drop in a elevator with the nose up a little is probably the hardest for me,but i can only do the simplest of stunts.No rolling harriers or anything that requires skill
I had to use a 3.5 spinner to get it to the most aft CG and that brought the weight up to 16lbs. 4ozs. with the added spinner.But the nose drops a little when inverted,so i might be able to ditch the spinner.
One thing they did was to use a dowel rod for the anti rotation pins in the wings and no extra ring of ply in the fuse where the pins go through.
Wheel pants are weak didn't last long on a grass strip,but i never use them,just tried to get more weight up front.
When someone says (it doesn't even hold a candle to it) it means that what ever you are comparing is not in the same league with what you are comparing.
As far as calling this plane a extra,i think it's just a name, they had to call it something.
It dosen't look like any extra i have seen.The cowl looks more like a edge,the fuse is tall and kind of flat behind the canopy.And the control surface are larger than any extra i have seen.
It just easier for me to fly as far as flatspins up rite and inverted,my yak always is harder to get in a good inverted spin with out the tail whippin around,but i know that is probably due to me and my skills.
01-20-2010, 06:41 PM
#60
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 4,104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
I don't see why you would make a comment like that when you admit it is probably your skills holding you back? It could be a combination of setup and skills in all honestly. I am not knocking you by any means, we all started with a trainer and built up our skills from there.. but that was a pretty strong comment and now I am left feeling it wasn't a fair comment based on your own addmissions.
I really don't see why so many pilots are hung up on coupling, I don't pretend to be an engineer by any means but I gotta think in order for a plane to have zero coupling in KE something else has to be sacrficed.
The H9 35% 260 is often hailed as the best 35% Extra on the market when it comes to precision but it def. needs mixing for KE.
Let's also not forget that you can change the coupling by changing your CG.
I really don't see why so many pilots are hung up on coupling, I don't pretend to be an engineer by any means but I gotta think in order for a plane to have zero coupling in KE something else has to be sacrficed.
The H9 35% 260 is often hailed as the best 35% Extra on the market when it comes to precision but it def. needs mixing for KE.
Let's also not forget that you can change the coupling by changing your CG.
01-20-2010, 08:09 PM
#61
My Feedback: (13)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: berlin hts,
OH
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Because when all things are equal,being set up per manufactor's advice and take them out and fly,The 3d Hobbyshop Extra does the things that i talk about better and easier!That I do know!
I ran my CG from front to back on the EF Yak and never could get the couple out of it,always want to pull to the gear,went as far back until i needed to push down to get it to land.
Maiden flight on the Extra i was doing one handed knife edges,and landing at walking speed.
Never could do that with the Yak for the two years that i flew it.
I ran my CG from front to back on the EF Yak and never could get the couple out of it,always want to pull to the gear,went as far back until i needed to push down to get it to land.
Maiden flight on the Extra i was doing one handed knife edges,and landing at walking speed.
Never could do that with the Yak for the two years that i flew it.
01-20-2010, 11:47 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
I think comparing apples to apples, most of the top RC airplane manufacturers today are all close to weight claims, specific flying characteristics and low wing loading. Quality and price are also very close, so Edge to Edge and for what is expected of an Edge, Yak to Yak and for what is expected of a Yak and the same for Extras, Gilles etc, you just choose an airplane which suits your flying style whether its 3D, IMAC, boring holes in the skies, etc, and fly the damn thing.
I think any airplane will only be best when the pilot and airplane is one, meaning that "they" both understand each other, that's when it will be best. If you look at it, everyone who says great things about all the airplanes have flown them and dialed them in, so the results can only be sweet.
Nothing will make a present day airplane better than an airplane which is fully understood by its owner. An RC pilot who knows what the airplane does and what to expect when he does it, will make that airplane look like an illusion and will think its the best airplane out there.
I am in the same dilemma right now and I do like 3D but wanted to mix in some clean IMAC maneuvers as well. I have had an Extra, an Edge and have the craving for a Yak. Pilot RC is what I have been following and since the big distributor is 3.5 hrs from here, I might just go with them. I was in touch with EF and had my mind made up on them but had a change of heart. I spoke with some guys in the Caribbean Islands and they are awaiting my feedback on the Yak I choose so that they follow the same route. They figure if I can do it, they can
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
So for the OP, 1. Decide the type of flying you want to do 2. Chose an airplane depending on that and 3. Fly the airplane as much as you could, learn all the weak habits and correct them either manually or by programming. Have a goal set on what you want to learn, set up a scheduled routine and practice, perfecting one at a time. If you don't have a simulator please get one , it helps.
For me........ and about 13 more waiting, I think it will be Pilot RC 30% Yak with the ugly color scheme.
I think any airplane will only be best when the pilot and airplane is one, meaning that "they" both understand each other, that's when it will be best. If you look at it, everyone who says great things about all the airplanes have flown them and dialed them in, so the results can only be sweet.
Nothing will make a present day airplane better than an airplane which is fully understood by its owner. An RC pilot who knows what the airplane does and what to expect when he does it, will make that airplane look like an illusion and will think its the best airplane out there.
I am in the same dilemma right now and I do like 3D but wanted to mix in some clean IMAC maneuvers as well. I have had an Extra, an Edge and have the craving for a Yak. Pilot RC is what I have been following and since the big distributor is 3.5 hrs from here, I might just go with them. I was in touch with EF and had my mind made up on them but had a change of heart. I spoke with some guys in the Caribbean Islands and they are awaiting my feedback on the Yak I choose so that they follow the same route. They figure if I can do it, they can
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
So for the OP, 1. Decide the type of flying you want to do 2. Chose an airplane depending on that and 3. Fly the airplane as much as you could, learn all the weak habits and correct them either manually or by programming. Have a goal set on what you want to learn, set up a scheduled routine and practice, perfecting one at a time. If you don't have a simulator please get one , it helps.
For me........ and about 13 more waiting, I think it will be Pilot RC 30% Yak with the ugly color scheme.
01-21-2010, 12:34 AM
#63
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Silverdale,
WA
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Striker
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
01-21-2010, 01:02 AM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: BTerry
Pilot-rc will fix that for you. They will make a custom scheme for you for a small fee.
ORIGINAL: Striker
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
I don't like the trim scheme of the Pilot RC airplanes but that I can fix!
For me I would just like to have Pilot RC cover the airplane in a plain two tone color and I will make my own graphics for it. I like Blue and Yellow and wish to replicate what I did for my Edge 540 like whats in the pic. I am not too sure how that scheme will look on the Yak but it looked great on my Edge 540
Its so much easier to see the airplane with the two colors like this.
That's an old pic BTW and the website is down [:-]
Thanks for the info BTerry
01-21-2010, 01:05 AM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Smorlock, please let us know what you decided to purchase and any additional info you would care to share.
01-21-2010, 05:34 PM
#66
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Silverdale,
WA
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Striker
Thanks for the info BTerry
Thanks for the info BTerry
Brett
01-21-2010, 10:26 PM
#67
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Blairsville,
GA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Striker, I am Smorlock, I can't believe the amount of conflict this has started between some people. I am ignorent when it comes to large gas planes so this seemed to be a good place to get advice for a first time plane. What I have experienced is very interesting. I was going to buy an EF Extra they are a local company to me and thought that would be a good choice, Cliff at Atlanta Hobby who has the best customer service I have ever been around and I have been doing service related work for 32 years likes the EF planes. If you ever do any electric stuff he is the man! All of his employees are top notch. They will go overboard to get you the info you need. With that said I just assumed that EF being right down the street would be able to do buisness the same way. I have sent many e-mails with questions I end up with two word answers. Some say just pick the one that you think looks the best. I was told that I can drive down and see them however there are no planes to look at. If I want to sell a $2000.00 item I think I could bring one from home, not to mention futture sales for more expesive items as that is how it goes. Aeroworks has not been much better, one or two word answers, when a customer calls me I will do whatever it takes to get the job. Sometimes I even do things for free to get a relationship going. that is not what I want however those two companies act like they don't have time to mess with someone like me. Tom at Wild Hare and TBM in FL (Pilot Etxra 300) have bent over backwards to try to help answer my questions. If there (EF & Aeroworks) sales techniques are that bad how are things going to be if I need advice during the build let alone warranty issues. Since one plane does not seem to be that much better than the other I am either going with a Wild Hare Giles 202 or a Pilot Extra 300, money is not an issue in this decision. I will keep you posted, thanks for your intrest.
Steve.
Steve.
01-22-2010, 08:32 AM
#68
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 4,104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Well I don't know who responded to emails.. but there are many people out there who don't enjoy using email to communicate, I do know both of those companies are short in email but on the phone you can chat as long as you like. I personally have many dealings which both companies and emails are always short. A phone call to any company is better than email IMHO. As far as the stock issue.. there is a reason why they can't keep them in stock
That being said you have narrowed it down to two companies. Having dealt with Tom over at WH many times in the past I can without a doubt tell you he will provide you with better customer service (especially on issues) than TBM will hands down. It would be well worth your time to do a search on both companies and do some reading, this will more than illustrate my point.
Happy Flying!
That being said you have narrowed it down to two companies. Having dealt with Tom over at WH many times in the past I can without a doubt tell you he will provide you with better customer service (especially on issues) than TBM will hands down. It would be well worth your time to do a search on both companies and do some reading, this will more than illustrate my point.
Happy Flying!
01-22-2010, 10:21 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Smorlock, I recently spoke with the senior staff at EF flight and much to my chagrin, I am still flabbergasted at what I heard. I wont go into to details, but after being in business for nearly 25 years I cannot comprehend what I was being told. Being in business I also know we cant please everyone, but when its evident that some companies won't care about sales and or customer service, then we have another rattle coming down the tube.
The good thing is, there are many other great manufacturers who offer great customer service so in the end the consumer benefits. We all can have different opinions about different companies, but I guess nothing changes a personal experience. I am happy you arrived at a decision for airplane and supplier at the end and so did I. I have only heard great things about WH products and have seen many here.
As for the conflict you see online, that's just human nature, it had always existed, it used to be called "bar fights" before the internet came about LOL Now having the technology and a way to express it in public view makes it more evident, don't worry about it, I see that all the time. People will always have different opinions in everything, as the old saying goes "One Mans Meat Can Be A Next Mans Poison" lol
The advice I gave you I think is constructive and practical, that's what worked for me. I have a brand new 29% Dave Patrick Edge 540T in, never been touched, it cost me nearly US $ 800 to get here, but based on my advice to you I want to sell it. Why? Because the type of flying I want to do requires another airplane and I want to follow the same guidelines I wrote in my post to you.
Either of those two airplanes you choose will be a great investment, build it straight, light and don't take anything for granted, go over everything three times and that includes radio programming.
Good luck with your entry into the giant scale level and if ever you need advice you can PM, email or call me, no worries at all and I would be more than happy to assist you.
Best Regards.
The good thing is, there are many other great manufacturers who offer great customer service so in the end the consumer benefits. We all can have different opinions about different companies, but I guess nothing changes a personal experience. I am happy you arrived at a decision for airplane and supplier at the end and so did I. I have only heard great things about WH products and have seen many here.
As for the conflict you see online, that's just human nature, it had always existed, it used to be called "bar fights" before the internet came about LOL Now having the technology and a way to express it in public view makes it more evident, don't worry about it, I see that all the time. People will always have different opinions in everything, as the old saying goes "One Mans Meat Can Be A Next Mans Poison" lol
The advice I gave you I think is constructive and practical, that's what worked for me. I have a brand new 29% Dave Patrick Edge 540T in, never been touched, it cost me nearly US $ 800 to get here, but based on my advice to you I want to sell it. Why? Because the type of flying I want to do requires another airplane and I want to follow the same guidelines I wrote in my post to you.
Either of those two airplanes you choose will be a great investment, build it straight, light and don't take anything for granted, go over everything three times and that includes radio programming.
Good luck with your entry into the giant scale level and if ever you need advice you can PM, email or call me, no worries at all and I would be more than happy to assist you.
Best Regards.
01-22-2010, 10:34 AM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
Well I don't know who responded to emails.. but there are many people out there who don't enjoy using email to communicate, I do know both of those companies are short in email but on the phone you can chat as long as you like.
Well I don't know who responded to emails.. but there are many people out there who don't enjoy using email to communicate, I do know both of those companies are short in email but on the phone you can chat as long as you like.
Many companies prefer to email mainly because of two things, one, to have a complete history of everything discussed in the email and two, many companies prefer to email as its very time consuming and impractical to deal with many customers at the same time on the phone. I am not sure how big and where the companies you deal with are, but the the phone is certainly not the preferred method of communication in this era. Many companies do not even list a phone number anymore, just an email address and a website.
What happens to customers who are abroad and do not have a long distance plan, should they be omitted as potential customers??? They cant afford to "chat as long as you like"
To try justifying lack of email etiquette within a business which sells a product is almost impossible in this day, age and era.
01-22-2010, 11:16 AM
#72
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belton,
TX
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: smorlock
Striker, I am Smorlock, I can't believe the amount of conflict this has started between some people. I am ignorent when it comes to large gas planes so this seemed to be a good place to get advice for a first time plane. What I have experienced is very interesting. I was going to buy an EF Extra they are a local company to me and thought that would be a good choice, Cliff at Atlanta Hobby who has the best customer service I have ever been around and I have been doing service related work for 32 years likes the EF planes. If you ever do any electric stuff he is the man! All of his employees are top notch. They will go overboard to get you the info you need. With that said I just assumed that EF being right down the street would be able to do buisness the same way. I have sent many e-mails with questions I end up with two word answers. Some say just pick the one that you think looks the best. I was told that I can drive down and see them however there are no planes to look at. If I want to sell a $2000.00 item I think I could bring one from home, not to mention futture sales for more expesive items as that is how it goes. Aeroworks has not been much better, one or two word answers, when a customer calls me I will do whatever it takes to get the job. Sometimes I even do things for free to get a relationship going. that is not what I want however those two companies act like they don't have time to mess with someone like me. Tom at Wild Hare and TBM in FL (Pilot Etxra 300) have bent over backwards to try to help answer my questions. If there (EF & Aeroworks) sales techniques are that bad how are things going to be if I need advice during the build let alone warranty issues. Since one plane does not seem to be that much better than the other I am either going with a Wild Hare Giles 202 or a Pilot Extra 300, money is not an issue in this decision. I will keep you posted, thanks for your intrest.
Steve.
Striker, I am Smorlock, I can't believe the amount of conflict this has started between some people. I am ignorent when it comes to large gas planes so this seemed to be a good place to get advice for a first time plane. What I have experienced is very interesting. I was going to buy an EF Extra they are a local company to me and thought that would be a good choice, Cliff at Atlanta Hobby who has the best customer service I have ever been around and I have been doing service related work for 32 years likes the EF planes. If you ever do any electric stuff he is the man! All of his employees are top notch. They will go overboard to get you the info you need. With that said I just assumed that EF being right down the street would be able to do buisness the same way. I have sent many e-mails with questions I end up with two word answers. Some say just pick the one that you think looks the best. I was told that I can drive down and see them however there are no planes to look at. If I want to sell a $2000.00 item I think I could bring one from home, not to mention futture sales for more expesive items as that is how it goes. Aeroworks has not been much better, one or two word answers, when a customer calls me I will do whatever it takes to get the job. Sometimes I even do things for free to get a relationship going. that is not what I want however those two companies act like they don't have time to mess with someone like me. Tom at Wild Hare and TBM in FL (Pilot Etxra 300) have bent over backwards to try to help answer my questions. If there (EF & Aeroworks) sales techniques are that bad how are things going to be if I need advice during the build let alone warranty issues. Since one plane does not seem to be that much better than the other I am either going with a Wild Hare Giles 202 or a Pilot Extra 300, money is not an issue in this decision. I will keep you posted, thanks for your intrest.
Steve.
01-22-2010, 11:31 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Buford,
GA
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Striker, please fill us in on this. I am very intersted to hear about what got you so flabbergasted.
Steve, I am Chris Hinson, the owner of Extreme Flight RC. My direct email is [email protected]
While the current economy does not allow us to maintain a retail showroom, many of our aircraft are stored at our warehouse in Cumming or in my home. You are welcome to stop by the warehouse but I would recommend calling ahead to be sure what you are looking for is here on that day. Better yet, the GMA flying field is only 12 miles from our office and I would be glad to let you get a pull on the sticks of one of our aircraft.
Steve, I am Chris Hinson, the owner of Extreme Flight RC. My direct email is [email protected]
While the current economy does not allow us to maintain a retail showroom, many of our aircraft are stored at our warehouse in Cumming or in my home. You are welcome to stop by the warehouse but I would recommend calling ahead to be sure what you are looking for is here on that day. Better yet, the GMA flying field is only 12 miles from our office and I would be glad to let you get a pull on the sticks of one of our aircraft.
01-22-2010, 11:56 AM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada and The Caribbean.
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
Chris, I will call you. I spoke to your operations manager and will fill you in on the details on a one on one basis. I just came in back to my shop and will call you after I get some work done here.
Regards.
Regards.
01-22-2010, 03:09 PM
#75
Senior Member
My Feedback: (40)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 4,104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wild Hare, EF Yak 88, Pilot All 50cc
ORIGINAL: Striker
Jake, I don't want to and wont partake heated exchange about this, but that claim and experience you speak of, is difficult to decypher when it comes to business.
Many companies prefer to email mainly because of two things, one, to have a complete history of everything discussed in the email and two, many companies prefer to email as its very time consuming and impractical to deal with many customers at the same time on the phone. I am not sure how big and where the companies you deal with are, but the the phone is certainly not the preferred method of communication in this era. Many companies do not even list a phone number anymore, just an email address and a website.
What happens to customers who are abroad and do not have a long distance plan, should they be omitted as potential customers??? They cant afford to ''chat as long as you like''
To try justifying lack of email etiquette within a business which sells a product is almost impossible in this day, age and era.
ORIGINAL: Jake Ruddy
Well I don't know who responded to emails.. but there are many people out there who don't enjoy using email to communicate, I do know both of those companies are short in email but on the phone you can chat as long as you like.
Well I don't know who responded to emails.. but there are many people out there who don't enjoy using email to communicate, I do know both of those companies are short in email but on the phone you can chat as long as you like.
Many companies prefer to email mainly because of two things, one, to have a complete history of everything discussed in the email and two, many companies prefer to email as its very time consuming and impractical to deal with many customers at the same time on the phone. I am not sure how big and where the companies you deal with are, but the the phone is certainly not the preferred method of communication in this era. Many companies do not even list a phone number anymore, just an email address and a website.
What happens to customers who are abroad and do not have a long distance plan, should they be omitted as potential customers??? They cant afford to ''chat as long as you like''
To try justifying lack of email etiquette within a business which sells a product is almost impossible in this day, age and era.
Not sure why there would be a heated exchange on the topic, I work in IT so I am well aware of the shift to email, however there are many businesses who believe email lacks that personal touch.
I joke with my customers who ask me to fax things because I don't have a fax in my remote office, I am like "is that a weird looking box that made funny noises they used in the 80s and 90s?" However truth be told out of the 100s of buisness clients we support I would guess 80% of them still have a fax machine and use it.
Anyhow.. not trying to get this way off topic.. we will agree to disagree.