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Old 03-13-2010, 12:23 AM
  #26  
stangman67
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

I have decided that a Rds8000 is going to be my best bet, 2 channels for ailerons, 2 for elevator, 1 throttle, 1 rudder, 1 kill, 1 for the battery connection and i will just manually choke it if the engine even needs to be choked.
Old 03-13-2010, 02:37 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

Or I can put a y harness on the 8th channel for the choke servo and the battery. Should be fine since the choke servo won't draw anything while in flight. I am not flawed in my reasoning, right
Old 03-13-2010, 09:31 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

hehehehe

Sorry, Zach...trust me...I'm laughing WITH you here....(well..ok...maybe just a bit AT you too...but only cuz i understand)

You're right...there's a truckload of options and opinions running around!  That's kinda exactly what we were talking about in the beginning of the thread...remember?  1.2 opinions per person!  

In all seriousness, though...just note the things that seem to get the most discussion, and give them serious consideration.  You're never going to get everyone here to be happy with your setup.  But guess what...WE don't have to be!  The only one that has to be happy with your setup is you (and possibly a safety coordinator at your club, if the club does such things.)

You've seen, for example, that there's a bunch of discussion about single vs dual batteries.  Lots of folks uncomfortable with single batts, but lots of others flying them with no problems.  Make a note to yourself that this seems to be an important issue, and do some research (beyond just asking "what should I do??" *heh*)  Talk to the guys at YOUR field...what's common there?  Why?  Heck...when you order the plane, ask Tom.  Tom's not in the business of setting up someone's plane for them, but he's always happy to help a customer understand his options.

As for the kill switch...remember...the choke can kill the airplane too!  Maybe you just want to set up a servo driven choke and use it as a kill switch as well.  Again...advantages and disadvantages here, but just know it's an option.

And hey...you can absolutely fly that bird on a 7-ch.  I'm flying my 102" WH Edge on a DX7, and have for a while....and that's including smoke AND choke! And that's after converting from a DX6i!!  [8D]  

I won't bury you with yet ANOTHER setup, but by all means, if you want to know, just ask.

=================

Anyway...yes...you really can get buried in all the different ways of doing things.  Don't let it get to ya...this IS a fun hobby!  

Old 03-13-2010, 10:13 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: zachfeen

Ugh I feel like I am in over my head. The 7c only comes with a 7 channel receiver, 1 port of which must be used for powering the receiver so this effectively leaves me with a 6 channel radio system again. Maybe the RDS8000 will be a better choice for me. Any insight would be greatly appreciated
I answered this question in the Wild Hare support forum but I can do the same here for all to see.


7 channels is plenty. My standard setup is to use 2 aileron channels, 2 elevators, rudder, throttle and choke. The choke is used also as an emergency kill switch.

If you run out of places to plug in the power, I find it very handy to use two short Y cables on the aileron channels. This gives you two handy places to plug in the ailerons and two places to plug in the power. FYI on virtually all radios you can plug power into any servo slot, so a Y cable anywhere gives you another place for power.

I almost always plug into two receiver slots, either from two switches or from something like the Smart Fly super-switch which is a 1-in/2-out arrangement. Larger planes can have fairly high current demand in some situations like a snap-roll where all the servos are asked to move a long way at the same time. It's good to have at least two power connections which reduces electrical resistance into the receiver, and it also provides a redundant connection. Who among us hasn't had a connector pull out of the receiver? If that happens on your battery you lose the plane, so two connections is cheap insurance.

The RDS-8000 is a decent radio but it's missing a few features such as dual rates on the rudder. I have the new Hitec Auroras in stock now, it's a top level radio at a price just above the very cheap radios, and receiver prices are no higher than the Airtronics.

TF
Old 03-13-2010, 11:07 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: gboulton

hehehehe

Sorry, Zach...trust me...I'm laughing WITH you here....(well..ok...maybe just a bit AT you too...but only cuz i understand)

You're right...there's a truckload of options and opinions running around! That's kinda exactly what we were talking about in the beginning of the thread...remember? 1.2 opinions per person!

In all seriousness, though...just note the things that seem to get the most discussion, and give them serious consideration. You're never going to get everyone here to be happy with your setup. But guess what...WE don't have to be! The only one that has to be happy with your setup is you (and possibly a safety coordinator at your club, if the club does such things.)

You've seen, for example, that there's a bunch of discussion about single vs dual batteries. Lots of folks uncomfortable with single batts, but lots of others flying them with no problems. Make a note to yourself that this seems to be an important issue, and do some research (beyond just asking ''what should I do??'' *heh*) Talk to the guys at YOUR field...what's common there? Why? Heck...when you order the plane, ask Tom. Tom's not in the business of setting up someone's plane for them, but he's always happy to help a customer understand his options.

As for the kill switch...remember...the choke can kill the airplane too! Maybe you just want to set up a servo driven choke and use it as a kill switch as well. Again...advantages and disadvantages here, but just know it's an option.

And hey...you can absolutely fly that bird on a 7-ch. I'm flying my 102'' WH Edge on a DX7, and have for a while....and that's including smoke AND choke! And that's after converting from a DX6i!! [8D]

I won't bury you with yet ANOTHER setup, but by all means, if you want to know, just ask.

=================

Anyway...yes...you really can get buried in all the different ways of doing things. Don't let it get to ya...this IS a fun hobby!

Holy crap, yet again I'm agreeing with you....

Zach,

I would ask things based on the most important issue and that is safety. You are new to gas power and your questions are completely understandable and in my opinion good ones, not that there is ever a bad question except the one not asked.

Safety is 99% common sense. But that begs the question "when I'm not sure what to do, how can I have common sense and be sure that what I am doing is correct" Ok well not exactly that but you get my point.

One thing I learned was using a choke as the only kill while the plane is in the air can be a bad thing. I witnessed an DA50 go to close to full power and the choke jam open because of a broken firewall and the pilot fly around on an almost full tank until he got low enough he did an outside loop at almost full power to draw the full out of the line enough to kill the engine. If for some reason the engine comes lose from the firewall, instead of the throttle going to idle and the choke closing, the engine could possibly increase in power and the choke could be jammed open. Another scenario I have witnessed is losing receiver power due to a switch or battery issue, unless your setup whatever radio you are using to a failsafe condition to have the engine go to idle and the choke go to close effectively killing the engine. In some cases if you were to run into a dead short that fries the receiver (which in turn releases the mysterious blue smoke that always comes out when an electronic circuit fries ) then failsafe no longer functions.

So based on all of that, I use an optical kill instead of just relying on a choke servo, I prefer SmartFly but any good one will do. You are looking for one that automatically cuts power to the ignition regardless of switch position should the receiver lose power or it's link to the TX. I'd have to go look, but I think the total weight for the Smartfly is right around one ounce. Personally, I like knowing that I have a positive way to kill the engine that does not rely on a mechanical link of any type and to have the option at anytime I see the need to use it. Hopefully I'll never have to use those features but to me it's comforting to know I have them on tap.

As was said, in the end up's comes down to you and what you want, all we can do is explain what we do and why. I suspect you will do just fine

Old 03-13-2010, 11:15 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: bubbagates


ORIGINAL: Zeeb


ORIGINAL: bubbagates


Oh man, you are really asking for it now..... and because you are a JR guy, I'll let it slide even more, I love my 12X...Just wish it did not eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner
I think I can offer a few tips on that 12X battery issue if you want? Since my 12X was in the first shipment Horizon received, I was among the first to have battery issues but I think I've got 'em resolved.
I'm all ears
Are you using the included 12X charger?

I think that is what is causing the problems since it puts out 12.0 volts rather than the more common 11.6 volts and my original battery got real hot during the initial charge following the included instructions. I wondered about that and called Horizon, they said it was fine.... yeah right....

At any rate, I needed a new pack and none were available, so I picked up a 10X pack and started using the walwart like you get with a DX-7, X9303 or a 10X that being 110mah at 11.6 volts. Worked fine on the 1100mah 10X battery but took a chunk of time to charge the new 2000mah 12X battery when it came. I wanted an Eneloop pack but they weren't available at that time so I got one of the Sanyo cell 2700mah packs from NoBS and just used the 110mah walwart, worked well and the packs were just getting slightly warm but it was taking forever.

Then JR came out with this walwart;

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRPC223

Now it's a 270 mah output vs. the 12X charger's 250mah so I didn't think that would be an issue. When it got here there's no specific voltage output listed on the thing like the older walwarts just the 9.6 volts listed on the front label. Called Horizon trying to get exact specs and they said there was no specific voltage output listed anymore to avoid confusion for consumers about which charger to use and he didn't have access to anything different. So we went on the idea that it was probably 11.6 volts. It also has a warning on it not to use it for more than 10 hours just like the SB on the 12X's charger listed on Horizon's website now.

It worked great on the 2000mah JR pack and the 2700mah NoBS pack and then the Eneloops became available for the cassette type radios so I sent mine off to Sin City Jets and Chad installed the cells for free and sent it back the same day he got it. The new JR walwart works fine on that as well.

So, I generally just use the 110mah overnight when I know I'm going flying or the bigger 270 if I have less time. The NoBS pack is a much better pack than the JR with less self discharge and quite a bit longer run times, but the self discharge rate was still more than I expected. The Eneloops are a whole different story and that's my favorite pack of the four I've tried... [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I've not had a hiccup since I got rid of the included charger and several of the guys I know around here have quit using that charger as well, in fact it was one of them who told me to just use the smaller walwart. I'm convinced it's the higher voltage output of the 12X charger which is causing the problem. Doesn't seem like an extra .4 volts would be that big of an issue but no one I know who's quit using the included charger is having battery problems with their 12X anymore.

Hope that helps.
Old 03-13-2010, 11:21 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: bubbagates
Holy crap, yet again I'm agreeing with you....
Dude...we really have to stop this.

Old 03-13-2010, 11:23 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: gboulton


ORIGINAL: bubbagates
Holy crap, yet again I'm agreeing with you....
Dude...we really have to stop this.

Agreed, [&:]
Old 03-13-2010, 11:26 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: Zeeb


ORIGINAL: bubbagates


ORIGINAL: Zeeb


ORIGINAL: bubbagates


Oh man, you are really asking for it now..... and because you are a JR guy, I'll let it slide even more, I love my 12X...Just wish it did not eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner
I think I can offer a few tips on that 12X battery issue if you want? Since my 12X was in the first shipment Horizon received, I was among the first to have battery issues but I think I've got 'em resolved.
I'm all ears
Are you using the included 12X charger?

I think that is what is causing the problems since it puts out 12.0 volts rather than the more common 11.6 volts and my original battery got real hot during the initial charge following the included instructions. I wondered about that and called Horizon, they said it was fine.... yeah right....

At any rate, I needed a new pack and none were available, so I picked up a 10X pack and started using the walwart like you get with a DX-7, X9303 or a 10X that being 110mah at 11.6 volts. Worked fine on the 1100mah 10X battery but took a chunk of time to charge the new 2000mah 12X battery when it came. I wanted an Eneloop pack but they weren't available at that time so I got one of the Sanyo cell 2700mah packs from NoBS and just used the 110mah walwart, worked well and the packs were just getting slightly warm but it was taking forever.

Then JR came out with this walwart;

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRPC223

Now it's a 270 mah output vs. the 12X charger's 250mah so I didn't think that would be an issue. When it got here there's no specific voltage output listed on the thing like the older walwarts just the 9.6 volts listed on the front label. Called Horizon trying to get exact specs and they said there was no specific voltage output listed anymore to avoid confusion for consumers about which charger to use and he didn't have access to anything different. So we went on the idea that it was probably 11.6 volts. It also has a warning on it not to use it for more than 10 hours just like the SB on the 12X's charger listed on Horizon's website now.

It worked great on the 2000mah JR pack and the 2700mah NoBS pack and then the Eneloops became available for the cassette type radios so I sent mine off to Sin City Jets and Chad installed the cells for free and sent it back the same day he got it. The new JR walwart works fine on that as well.

So, I generally just use the 110mah overnight when I know I'm going flying or the bigger 270 if I have less time. The NoBS pack is a much better pack than the JR with less self discharge and quite a bit longer run times, but the self discharge rate was still more than I expected. The Eneloops are a whole different story and that's my favorite pack of the four I've tried... [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I've not had a hiccup since I got rid of the included charger and several of the guys I know around here have quit using that charger as well, in fact it was one of them who told me to just use the smaller walwart. I'm convinced it's the higher voltage output of the 12X charger which is causing the problem. Doesn't seem like an extra .4 volts would be that big of an issue but no one I know who's quit using the included charger is having battery problems with their 12X anymore.

Hope that helps.
Sounds exactly like the issues I have. Although it's not as bad as I made it sound, it's still not up to what I would get in my 10X until I changed it out to LiPo. I'd like to do that with the 12x but the thought of destroying at $1200+ radio does not sit well with me.

Thanks for the tips
Old 03-13-2010, 11:46 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

Whew, thanks for all the help guys. I feel slightly less overwhelmed now. I am going to think about possibly getting an Aurora 9. Looks like a trick radio, or just stick with the 7c. My wallet hates this hobby but I just can't stop. Too much fun
Old 03-13-2010, 11:53 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

Zach i dont see the point to invest in a new radio, but if you have the cash, well i think the new 8 channel from futaba is really good, you can asign each channel and switch and is almost 10 channels radio.

About the radio setup, you will have the setup like this.

1. Aileron
2. Elevator
3. Throttle
4. Rudder
5. Elevator
6. Aileron
7. Battery

or

1. Aileron
2. Elevator
3. Throttle
4. Rudder/Battery
5. Elevator
6. Aileron
7. Kill switch.


Ok, talking about the kill switch, you can use a Y on any channel to put the battery and the servo and get aa free slot for the kill switch which is asigned to one channel and then to one switch in your radio as you want.

I did use my 7C for a few months on my 50cc Extra so i dont see the point that you can do the same thing, now i have a 10C but is cause i have a few more things on my airplane so i need more channels.
Old 03-13-2010, 11:57 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

I don't have the 7c, I have a T6xas and want to go up to 2.4. 7c is just what I was planning on getting. I realize that it will work now, just didn't think about using a y cable to power the receiver.
Old 03-13-2010, 12:09 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


Re: the choke setup. if you put a little thought into the installation you can make the choke activate by pulling, that way if something comes loose and the engine moves forward the choke will close automatically. There's nothing wrong with a kill switch but having 3 sources of killing the engine may be excessive.

Another way to save a channel is to use a Y cable on the ailerons and drive them from a single channel. Unless you have a need to use aileron differential this will work fine and you will lose nothing. Most aerobatic planes don't use differential because they spend as much time inverted as they do upright, and the effect of aileron differential is reversed when inverted. Differential is used primarily on sport planes like a Cub where the plane is almost always upright and the ailerons are way out on the wing aggravating the adverse yaw, on a plane like an Edge you will probably not want to use any differential.

Another thing, using a single channel to drive both ailerons makes it easier to get the throws exactly the same. With two channels there is the potential to have them work differently which usually is a bad thing.

TF
Old 03-13-2010, 12:18 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

I also noticed that the Spektrum DX7 is advertised right now for $229, that's a heck of a price for a decent radio. Not in the "great" category, but definitely "adequate".

TF
Old 03-13-2010, 12:28 PM
  #40  
stangman67
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

I see the transmitter only for 229, then 60-70 for a receiver. I might as well get a Aurora for that I can get the 7c for 215 shipped with a 7 channel receiver or the RDS is 180 (I am not too sure I am worried about not having d/r on rudder though, I have full rudder throw all the time on my smaller edge and it does not cause me any problems and I don't use expo on any channels either) . I have always seen people frown upon using y harnesses of any sort but I can see why they would be helpful on ailerons since the servos are moving opposite anyways. On my smaller stuff I still use separate channels but I don't use aileron differential anyways.
Old 03-13-2010, 04:42 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general



You should be able to use a "Y" harness in the 7th channel for the battery. This still lets you have 7 channels.

 At least that is the way my Futaba works

Old 03-13-2010, 04:59 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

HI as i was told when i started in this hobby there are always six ways to do all things rightyou do have to choose the one you like -or the one that you know is working for someone at your fieldjust ask the guys doing what you would like to be doing with success you should find them extremly helpful and willing to share info
regarding the radio set up with a gas engine-do NOT use a metal rod from inside the fuse ( from servo ) to the throttle armit will cause radio noiseand no metal to metal hardware anywhere( nyrods work here ) keeping your RX one foot from your engines ignition should prevent any ignition noise from getting to your RX doing a range check with the engine running should show you any signs of possible interference on the ground before your maiden flight
i have a policy from day oneI WILL ONLY BUILD AND FLY WHAT I EXPERIENCE WORKING TO MY LIKING AT THE FIELD -so to some degree i am just a copy cat in this hobby-but i know i am going to enjoy the planes power to weight etcas i have seen it do what it does in good hands-just my .02 ENJOY REGARDS TONY
Old 03-13-2010, 05:48 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

Thanks for the advice. Most stuff in this hobby works so I am not worried about copying other peoples setups, as long as you stick to proven brands. And btw I'll be using the sullivan composite pushrods for the throttle choke. If I get the 7c, I'm going to y off the choke servo for the batt and go from there, and then go the route tom suggested and use the choke as the engine kill if needed. If I do the aurora 9 or rds8000, I can do the opto kill and the choke servo. Just a matter of what my budget allows. I like having separate channels for each aileron so I can adjust each servo separately to make everything perfect. I am so glad for helpful communities like this. Thanks guys!
Old 03-13-2010, 09:10 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

As a side note, here is my latest experiment. Point was to build a 3d plane basically as cheap as possible. Nitro planes Yak- 80 bucks, Turnigy Motor/ESC/Servos/PROP Adapter 70 bucks, zippy 2200 3s/4s lipos, 12 and 30 respectively. The most expensive thing on this plane other than the airframe itself was the berg receiver. Figured the receiver would be a bad thing to go cheap on. First impressions are pretty good, plane was an easy build. Servo's are a bit slow and the motor isn't as responsive as my rimfire outrunners but for an under 200 dollar plane, this was a great success!

Old 03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

Let me throw a couple of things in here, if you get a DX7 and a AR7000 receiver you have a dedicated plug for the battery power, and still have 7 plugs for servos without using any Y adapters at all. Here's how my DX7/AR7000 is set up:

AR7000 receiver
Ailerons-right aileron
Rudder-rudder
Elevator-1 elevator half
Rudder-rudder
Gear-42% opto kill switch
Aux 1-left aileron
Aux 2-other elevator half

If I needed a retract switch I could use a Y on the ailerons. or using digital servos, could program one to reverse on the elevator servos and use a Y there.
Old 03-17-2010, 12:48 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general

I wonder if any of you DX7 users have been "helisized".

I have now converted all my gas planes and large electrics to the heli mode to take advantage of the throttle curve feature. That is only available to helis.

This way the DX7 becomes, IMHO, a top notch radio. Heck, it may not have telemetry or lipo support but its reliability, price and functionality will turn a few heads. I was shopping for a backup radio but in light of the newly discovered throttle curve (a must for any gas application), I will get another DX7, possible the SE version because of its better resolution/latency.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I've seen WH planes perform and they rank among the best so I'm sure you'll love your WH Edge/DLE30 combo!
Old 03-17-2010, 01:58 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Wilhare baby edge info needed/ help on gas in general


ORIGINAL: doublesixes

I wonder if any of you DX7 users have been "helisized".

I have now converted all my gas planes and large electrics to the heli mode to take advantage of the throttle curve feature. That is only available to helis.
YOU BET! Love me some throttle curve!

Still having troubles with my big WH Edge's program in Heli mode...but I'll get it licked. In the mean time, all my electrics are there, and 1 of my 2 glows so far.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I've seen WH planes perform and they rank among the best so I'm sure you'll love your WH Edge/DLE30 combo!
You think they're impressive to WATCH....you oughta fly one.




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