buchtes

My Feedback: (7)

AA5BY: maybe so. but they still failed to test the Product they produce, which is unacceptable in manufacturing standards. Typical for today's products produced in China and by some US Companies for monetary reasons.

AA5BY

Buchtes... I agree. I found the manufacturers statement incredible as it was a confirming statement that copying is done with the hope that blame is on the original.

buchtes

My Feedback: (7)

roger

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

One very popular distributor used a manufacturer that produced models using horizontal grain shear webs and experienced failures in many different kits. From their first 1.20 sized plane onwards they ended up replacing wings and/or full kits to compensate buyers for losses incurred from improper construction methods.

With eastern manufacturing, the lowest cost wins out over strenght and good engineering every time. In the letter from the company this was pretty well impled when they referenced minimizing costs and using wood in directional methods to obtain straighter models. As a builder/flyer with over 40 years of building experience I can state with some conviction that anything built with horizontal grain shear webs should be expected to fail. Other factors can accellerate the process, such as types of adhesives used and the quality of rib to sheeting glue joints. These have also frequently been contributory to wing failures in models.

The fiberglass tube by itself, even with a carbon fiber or aluminum tube of dubious grade aluminum, will not fully resist the bending loads imposed by aerodynamic forces. There must be additional structure to disperse the loads or the wing will fail. Without seeing the rest of the wing structure you cannot observe other factors that may have assisted the failure but the picture of the tube and horizontal grain sheet indicate the manufacturer depended solely on the tube to handle wing loading.

If the earlier statement about withholding the manufacturer name to prevent a suit is true, the owner is being black malied into silence. The Chinese know they cannot be sued with any chance of collection, as evidenced in the east coast Chinese drywall law suits, but they also know that since they hold the balance of trade deficits they can sue and their government will provide all the support they need to assure collection.

The letter from the manufacturer clearly notes a desire to build as cheap as possible, and admits sacrificing strength to do so. Since the manufacturer sent the letter or e-mail they made that note your personal property. If it was me I would post the letter in its entirety and let them go for it. They cannot retract anything they put in print, and they would have to produce their sent copy in a court action. Failure or refusal would likely force a mistrial. Unless you signed a non-disclosure agreement any printed communications are yours to use as you deem fitting.

buchtes

My Feedback: (7)

Hello (me too) tired old man. Your probably right with your statement about suing the Chinese, we ( the US ) owe them way too much and this is not getting better with the current Admin.

looks like the only option we ( the Modelers) have is to purchase only from proven and reliant MFG's. Personally I'd rather build my own, and have been for 40+ Years with never a Wing or other Failure in the Model.

Best Regards,
Buchtes

CrashingXpert

My Feedback: (2)

no one knows!!

i recoment you always get your models formwww.2krc.com and www.lindinger.at


best planes! great after sale service

even if the final product has a deferent brand on


they have veeeeery nice VOTEC 232from 50cc to 150cc ARF!!! MX YAK EXTRA !..HEY THE DAMAGEDWING LOOKS LIKE LINDINGERS VOTEC!

And they have F4U corsairs ARF from 60up to 150cc and ZEROs all ARF!

to bad QQ stoped do buisness with them and we miss the great yak!!


..going to get a helmet..ww3 is on?


biggiants.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54782

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Mr."Tired Old Man"

very well sed. respect.

highfly3D

These fools are trying to make things very easy for themselves.... by using such easy techniques for which all those who buy ARF pay a heavy price for there easy JOB...... feel very sorry for the loss

I say you must publicly.. announce the manufacturers NAME

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

How the hell can they sue the user? The balsa shear webbing grain running parallel to the spars is not generally accepted to be good building practice... Factual. The manufacturer built the plane that way.. Factual... Just state it factually.. XXXX model company builds their wings with the grain running parrellel to the spars.. Let the buyers decide if they want it...

juanes1969

I think we all should know which manufacturer produced this particular plane, maybe you can´t type the name here, but you could post a picture of the plane before or after the crash. We can identify the plane by it´s colors; since almost everyone of them covers their planes differently, it won´t be difficult. POST A PICTURE!!!!

MTK

Build the sucker from foam/balsa laminate.

If built-up is a must, the best shear webs are plied balsa cut on bias. 1/32" balsa cross grained and then cut on bias would be super duper. Lighter than aircraft plywood but strong in shear, torsion, tension and compression. What else do you want?

mred33

[/quote]
no one knows!!
i recoment you always get your models form www.2krc.com [/quote]

These are the last people that Iwould ever buy from. If you want to wast your money on them, you are more then free to do so, but I would NEVER recomend them myself.

[/quote]
best planes!
even if the final product has a deferent brand on

they have veeeeery nice VOTECs from 50cc to 150cc ARF!!! MX YAK EXTRA !
And they have F4U corsairs ARF from 60up to 150cc and ZEROs all ARF!
to bad QQ stoped do buisness with them and we miss the great yak!!
..going to get a helmet..ww3 is on?

biggiants.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54782 [/quote]

Ithink if you look into the matter with anyone stopping production from a given manufacture, there is a very good reason for it. If you are recommending 2kc as the best manufacture, then Ithink you are mistaken. Some of their planes "MAY" be OK and safe to use, but there are some that are very dangerious.

Idon't really know the laws in your country, but if a manufacture threatened me with a law suet, Iwould be all over him with my own sute. We have this little thing in America called Freedom of Speech and no one has the right to take that away, including the government, let alone some manufacture. For a manufacture to even hint at a law sute if you mention the brand name is about as low you you can go. This is one manufatture that I will NEVERdo business with and would love to see a boyucot of their product until such time as they come out with a public appology and make things right with anyone that has had a failure of this kind. They also need to start making their planes RIGHT and not cut corners which they admit to just to save a buck. Just because they are in China does not give them the right to try and gag someone or to threaten them. They may get away with that in China, but this is not China. As long as the information you give is true and accurate, they cannot force your silence. Also, if the inporter has any idea that his procuct is defective, they can be held responsible for importing defective and dangerious products.

Idon't buy ARF's anymore for this very reason. The manufacture does not care if it is wrong or if it breaks after the sale. They can always blame it on the user and say they don't know how he handled it, therefore it is his fault. They also say it is the responsibility of the user to check the plane before each flight to make sure it is safe to fly. Do Iunderstand this right - they want me to take the covering off before each flight to make sure that their shoddy workmanship has not failed yet?? Just how do they expect me to check anything that is under a covering that I cannot see through. Do they now expect us all the use an X-Ray machine to check the internal structure of a plane that THEYknow is build badly in the first place. They admit to building it this way to save money and then tell the buyer that it is his fault that it broke. Ihave never seen such arrogance from a manufacture in all my life.

This is exactly why I will only build from a kit or from plans with one exception. Sub Art has a line of planes that are fantastic. They have quality control for "EVERY" part and they know who built it and when. They go the extra mile to make sure their products are right and NOcorners are cut. If anything goes wrong with one of their plans due to structureal failure, they will replace it. Ihave yet to hear of any of their planes failing in flight due to structural failure. That doesn't mean you can't crash them - Ican crash with the best of them.

The cost to ME is not worth the lawsuete Imay get if a wing fails because of a manufacture taking short cuts. If that plane had gone into a crowd and killed soemone, you better believe you would be named in that law sute right along with anyone else that had anything to do with that airplane. The way Ibuild my planes I know that they will not fail until they incounter that imoveable object at high speed. Ialso don't want to make a manufacture rich on building junk. The fact that they threatened a law sute says it all. Sorry, but they are off my list of even recommended planes. In fact, I will recommend to everyone Imeet to NOTbuy from them.

Ed

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Foreign manufacturers do not change methods or practices unless they are forced to change. Force can be applied in many ways, but the most functional is economic force. If products do not sell, there are no funds to continue business operations.

I also agree mred33 about buying only from 2krc. Personally, I did not find much to rave about where quality and the QQ Yaks were concerned.

Once you bought the kit it became yours. There was likely some manufacturer disclaimer included with the kit. You are in Greece, the manufacturer is in China. The manufacturer sent you either a letter or an e-mail. If you did not agreein writing not to disclose the contents of the manufactures note, you have the right and the ability to post an unedited copy of that note in this forum. There is absolutely nothing the manufacturer can do when you accurately quote them. You are not lying, misstating, or misrepresenting. If that document happens to contain direct references to the manufacturer, then that is the fault of the manufacturer.

They will not change anything unless forced. Posting the note with the name is a form of force. We really would like to know of those manufacturers that fail to hold the concerns of the end users in high regard. Where could a plane end up if losing wings during an event? Who holds the liability then? You're it, the user.

n19htmare

My Feedback: (1)

There is nothing illegal about pointing out a fault in the manufacturer. Don't think they can legaly even sue you. You're not attacking them or intentionally giving their business a bad name. As a consumer, in the US, you do have rights. So check the laws in your country.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I'm guessing that a certain 50cc Votec is the aircraft that started this thread

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

If you are building your kit use 1/16" lite ply. No problem!

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

How does one do that with an arf?

CrashingXpert

My Feedback: (2)

www.lindinger.at and www.2krc.com wont see our money again

votec 232 have this kind of wing

like the rest of there planes /

stay away . after they get your money they dont care

hanko

there are so many reputable mfg's like aerowroks, pilot, TT, BME, PAU, extream flight. People keep buying this cheap junk then they are all pissed off when something like this happens. Too bad the guy lost a big investment.

AirplaneKit

there must be someone or someones want to kill the manufaturer, like toyota...

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Hello Sir

do you mean that i try to harm manufacture sales by make a bad advertisement with out a reason?


thank you for your time

Best Regards
George

AirplaneKit

i'm not sure...

highfly3D

see the company is not a brand name company like Great Planes who care about their products... they are a bunch of small manufacturer... who really dont much care about it.. i hope you understand

But if i put my self in place of the manufacturer i will try full best to manufacture a best model airplane...in performance & strength & also stand with my products if needed any support.. thats how it must be.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

firstly i like to thank you for stand up and write a coment![sm=thumbup.gif]
can i have your opinion about the wing stracture please?
do you think the web direction in photo as been prodused by the manufactor is corect and airworthy?

thanx again

AirplaneKit

actually it's not a wrong direction design, because everyone knows the vertical will strength, the manufaturer knows it too. why they made such "stupid mistake"?

the problem of wing failure is not really on direction, or they must be crash in the first loop.

i don't know why some flyer knows the situation of QQ company with the manuaturer, they should be the guys from competitors.