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-   -   What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale) (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/giant-scale-aircraft-3d-aerobatic-110/4658024-what-engine-h9-cap-232-1-20-1-4-scale.html)

Yoder808 08-23-2006 01:18 AM

What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Just got this plane, will be building it/recovering it soon. Will it 3d? Can I lighten it up any? Any recommendations otherwise? I am thinking Hitec HS-5645 on the rudder(single servo pull-pull), Hitec HS-5645 on the elevator with a Dual Elevator Push Rod system found [link=http://www.centralhobbies.com/control_linkage/deps1.html]here[/link] , and HS-5625's for aileron.

Thanks,
Yoder

rtn9105 08-23-2006 05:36 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Lots of good info about lightening this airframe up found here.

http://www.goflyrc.com/projects/25Cap/25CapRebuild.htm

T. Bob 08-23-2006 09:28 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
NO GAS
Use a Moki 1.80 / 2.10

Yoder808 08-23-2006 11:21 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Hmm, so no gas eh? Would a Moki pull unlimited verticals?

carlosponti 08-23-2006 11:34 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
MVVS 35 light as those nitro engines in a gasser. but for unlimited verticle you might try a saito 180

JoeAirPort 08-23-2006 11:56 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Yep that was not on your list and it probably the most powerful for the weight. I have one on a CAP232 120 and man does it haul it around. Verticals are impressive.


ORIGINAL: Yoder808

Hmm, so no gas eh? Would a Moki pull unlimited verticals?

T. Bob 08-23-2006 04:09 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
I don't even like Moki's; I'm a gas guy, but in a small plane like that a Moki will pull the wings off.

Yoder808 08-23-2006 04:14 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Sweet where can i buy a Moki?

BTerry 08-23-2006 04:52 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
I had this plane with a ZDZ 40. Tremendous power, but the plane was a pig otherwise. It weighed around 14# (on 940 in^2 of wing area) and was seriously overweight. Landing was always a major challenge with the big prop. At idle it would stop flying, snap and fall from the sky but a couple of clicks of up trim and it wouldn't stay on the ground. I wish I had used the OS 1.60/Moki 1.80/Saito 1.50 in it. I had a few friends with the same plane with these lighter engines and it flew very well.

The Moki 2.1 has roughly the same power as a good 40cc gasser, and will also weigh roughly the same.

Another option is the Brillelli 40GT listed [link=http://www.brillelli.com/brillelli_011.htm]HERE[/link]. Aerobob (Bob Pastorello) just installed one in his QQ Yak with wonderful success. It is listed in the 3D forum. The engine weighs 6.8 oz more than an OS 1.60 in "flying condition" but minus fuel, so it is by far the lightest gas engine you will find.

In fact, using the smaller 14-16 oz fuel tank required by a gas engine (versus 18 - 24 oz for glow) the flying weight will probably be equal or slightly lower than if powered by the OS 1.60. The price is unbeatable too, and the engine seems plenty powerful for a 12-14# plane.

Also, I don't know where you can buy Moki engines any longer. Nobody carries them in the US, and overseas dealers can't ship here. Dave Patrick imports the "Mark" engines, which are essentially the Molki engines designed to run on 15% nitro. The Moki's run very well on FAI (0% nitro) or 5%.

BTerry 08-23-2006 04:56 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Here is the link to the post about the QQ Yak with the Brillelli engine. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4565522/tm.htm]LINK[/link]

Randy M. 08-23-2006 09:40 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
I had a Saito 180 in mine. It would go verticle on takeoff for as long as you wanted. I did put a 24 oz. tank in and would fly for 9 min+ depending on throttle managment. The 220 would be crazy power I would think. I would love to have another. Mine met an untimely demise. I hit the wind sock pole after over 1500 flights. That's probably a low estimate.

Yoder808 08-23-2006 10:13 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
hmm... so saito 180, moki 1.8, or Brillelli 40GT... hmm I am leaning toward the 40GT, a good intro to gassers, and quite cheap! Any more opinons?

T. Bob 08-24-2006 01:24 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 

Weight RTF - 3lbs 4oz
Please listen to what people are saying.

A Fat Cap is not a happy Cap.

But I have seen a dozen guys make the same mistake.

If you want to get into gas go with no less than 30% and even then weight is crucial.

Yoder808 08-24-2006 09:47 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
What is the all up weight for a saito 180? Engine only is 31 oz I think. 2.5 lbs? The cap is tail heavy anyway, right? Could I make up for the differece with a carbon fiber spinner/prop? Ok, so my pic now is a saito 180, i guess. Can a Cap this old 3d anyway? Is it too heavy with any engine I choose?

T. Bob 08-24-2006 10:30 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
It will 3D but those first Caps were squirrelly.
They will snap on you in a heartbeat if you stall them so just keep your speed up and you will be fine.

NM_Mark 08-24-2006 02:54 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
I've had 2 of these Caps (in fact, still have one of them)...and I've tried power all the way from a Saito 180, Zenoah G26, and OS 160...and I have to say the Saito 180 made for the best flying experience. It was the lightest of the bunch...which made for the lightest flying weight. Believe me when I say "weight is everything" on these planes. Just a few ounces makes the difference...it lands better lighter, and flys better lighter. With the 160 and G26, I had to move the tail servo's to the back of the plane....the additional weight made me think i was landing a freight train, not an airplane.

Both of mine were the first generation Cap's, and they would snap...but then again, that's what made them fun (as long as you're more than 15 feet off the deck!).

Keep it light, and you'll have soooo much fun.

Just my thoughts.

Mark





carlosponti 08-24-2006 03:53 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
some of the newer gassers that are our are fully capable of lifting the plane while not being heavy Brillelli 26ss is with muffler and EI is 44oz. between that MVVS and Evolution engines there are plenty of gassers with power and low weight to do a decent job at flying these not the complete mistake that some would have you believe. someone i believe also posted a link to a site where a guy lightened his cap same model. after his lightening and some lightweight gasser you would be at or around the same weight to power balance you would with a saito and unmodified airframe. now you might not beable to hover at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle but certainly have aerobatic capability. plus you are adding about twice the weight of fuel so that saito 180 with 24 oz of fuel will be offset buy the 44 oz brillelli and 12 oz of fuel. i would think a g26 would be a bit too heavy to get good flying out of this plane. i have the same airframe and plan on puttiing a homelite 25cc on it. hey its my plane i can do what i want.

http://www.scottellingson.com/brillelli_012.htm

saito 180 - 2 lbs 6 oz.
brillelli 26cc - 2 lbs 11 oz.

Yoder808 08-24-2006 04:22 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Damn, I am torn between the Brilelli and the Saito... I plan on lightening it up as much as possible (I am recovering anyway), and using CF Mains and Tailwheel. Also CF Spinner, and Prop if I need too bring the CG aft. So... a 26 or 40 hmm... Or Satio 180...

BobPhx 08-24-2006 04:30 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Drat, rtn beat me to my own link:D

My AUW on the 2nd plane, after all the lightening, was still in the high 11's. This is adequate for making this plane fun to fly. By fun I mean you can land it without stressing out that it is going to tip stall, and it has plenty of vertical for IMAC and 3D.

I put a couple of hundred flights on the first plane at 13.5 lbs, and in the end its demise was a snap into the ground on a dead stick.

These planes are squirrelly when they are fat.

If you are skilled at 3D on other 1/4 scale aerabatic planes (Not UCan Do's etc.. I'm talking Caps, Edges, etc,) you can probably handle it. If you are not it is a not a good plane to learn 3D on.

I can also tell you that I think the wood weight in these planes varied a bit. On my site you will see Bill's plane, a yellow version, which came in at just over 12 lbs with same motor and no lightening efforts.

Every ounce counts. Go with a Saito 1.80, OS 1.60 or Moki 2.10. Agreed that there are gassers that will probably work fine, but you are after the highest power to weight ratio you can get if you want to 3D. No gasser will give you the same power to weight that one of the above 3 motors will.

Good luck - they are a blast to throw around when set up right!
Bob

PS - Neither of our planes came out tail heavy with the Saito. We always had enough room to move the motor fwd or back to get the CG right on.

Yoder808 08-24-2006 06:01 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Cool, thanks for the help, I think I will do a Satio 1.80 then.

Rcpilot 08-24-2006 06:49 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
I had one of these. 11.75 pounds with a ST3000. Flew like it was on rails. Perfect aileron rolls with no wobbling around. I wasn't using any differential in my ailerons. Just flew it. It would do aileron rolls the length of the runway and it looked like you ran a string though the spiner and out the tail--then slapped the wingtip. It would snap clean and stop immediately when you let go of the sticks. No over-rotation in snaps or rolls. Inverted was almost hands free. All I had to do was put my finger on the elevator stick and it would fly level inverted.

I had to move both elevator servos up into the gas tank area and my rudder servo was pull/pull and mounted about 1" in front of the CG.

These planes are tail heavy as all get out. Keep as much weight up front as possible. DO NOT put servos in the tail. You'll be sorry. You've been warned. ;)

Gas on this airframe? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It's just not big enough. You need--absolute bare minimum 1000 square inches for a gas engine.

Keep it light. That should be your biggest goal if you really want it to fly good. Light Light Light Light Light Light Light Light Light If you load it up with a gas engine--it's just gonna be a fat Cap like the other guys told you. Fat Cap is no fun. Light Cap can reach out and bite you in the butt--but a Fat Cap will eat your lunch and spit you out laughing.

Put a 1.80 or 2.0 cubic inch motor on it. 2-stroke or 4-stroke -- thats personal preference you need to decide. I absolutely LOVED mine with a ST3000 turning a 20-6 prop around 7300RPM. That thing had all kinds of pull in the vertical lines.

Will it 3D? YOU BETCHA!!!!!!!! But, not if you hang a gas engine on the nose and make it weigh 13 pounds. Yeah, it'll hover all day long with a gas engine -- but there's more to good 3D than hovering. Do you want to do harriers with it? How'd you like to see it stop in it's tracks and pop straight up into a wall? Literally looks like you slammed it into a wall and it just stops right there. BAMM!!

Keep it light. And keep your hinge gaps a little big so you can get the absolute maximum deflection on the elevators and rudder. Then seal your hinge lines with covering or tape to prevent flutter. You HAVE to seal the hinge lines--because your going to need to leave a 1/16" gap in your hinges to make them deflect enough to get that tail under control. If you don't seal them hine lines--it won't live very long.

Most guys made the mistake of not enough control surface deflection and then claiming it would snap out in walls and harriers. Bull!! You just gotta get enough throw dialed in and fly it HARD. Dial in some expo and slam the crap out of it. This plane likes to be flown slow--but you have to really slam on it to make it 3D good. Thats why you have to keep it light and you have to not be chicken. Get those tail surfaces to max deflection and fly it like ya stole it.

It's a darn nice flying plane for such an old vintage. If I wasn't so hooked on gas ------- or if I ever had to scale down to that size again--------I'd pick one up and slap a Saito 2.20 on it. It's a nice plane and it will reward you if you just keep it light and power it really good.

Good luck. Hope my lop-sided opinion helps. :)


T. Bob 08-24-2006 09:31 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 

brillelli

APC 16x8 @ 8550 RPM
Not much to brag about.

Give me the Saito (Turns a 16x8 prop at 9,600 rpm on 15% fuel) at 30% anytime...

Yoder808 08-24-2006 11:51 PM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
Cool then, I think the Saito 180 will do. Looks sweet. I don't think Super Tiger makes a 3000 anymore, just a 3250. I bet an OS 1.60 would fly the crap out of it, but 4 strokes sound so sweet. With a saito 180, what can I expect my all up weight to be? 11-12 lbs? Thanks for the help guys.

Propwash-don 08-25-2006 08:26 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 
How about a 3w-24? I have and old Hanger 9 232 that I have been flying for a couple of years with a T.T. 120 2-cylce flys great but no 3-D. The plane weights just over 12 lbs., it's been done in one time really bad (caused by me). I was thinking about trying the 2w-24 but that would drive the weigth up over 13 lbs., sounds like the kiss of death. The plane lands great even dead stick. Has anyone ever use a 3w-24 in this plane and what was the out come?

carlosponti 08-25-2006 09:10 AM

RE: What engine for a H9 Cap 232 1.20(1/4 scale)
 

ORIGINAL: Rcpilet

It's just not big enough. You need--absolute bare minimum 1000 square inches for a gas engine.

1031 square in wing area on the 120 Sized Cap just so you know which plane we are talking about. ;)


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