new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy for a 50cc??
 

the new 88" yak has the same wing area as the ultra rc yak, yet weighs at best 2lbs more, and at worst 4lbs more...?

This is just a question, I do not currently own the ef yak. I am asking everyone who has more experience. i plan to get one a couple of months down the line.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Although advertised as 87 inches and 1450 sq. inches, the Ultra RC Yak is actually 85 inches and about 1380 sq. inches.
Our new Yak is exactly 88 inch span and a true 1450 sq. inches. 17 lbs. will be easily achievable with a DA-50 on stock muffler. The airplane flies extremely light!
But you don't have to take my word for it-the container has arrived in Long Beach and the first 20 customers should have their planes in 10 days or so. We'll let them do the talking.
The new 88 inch Yak is our re-entry into the 50cc gas market-there is NO way I would consider releasing a plane that wasn't at least as good as our previous design-this one is better.
:D

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

so I understand that it is essentially a larger plane like going from 28 to 31 percent,

but the wing loding on the new yak will be higher from about 26 ounces on the last generation to about 28 ounces on the new one.

and the same engine is expected to pull this extra weight or is a larger engine recommended.

also what size prop can the plane clear.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

anyone have anything to add,,

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I am flying the original Extreme Flight Yak at the same size of the Ultra Yak.It is 17lbs 4ozs with a DA50 and KS tuned pipe.It performs liked a scalded ape at 5000ft elevation.The new one should fly great and the videos on Extreme Flights website prove it.Those videos are with a new,not broken in DA50.I had my Yak down at 16lbs but ended up adding another NiMH battery and pipe to increase the wieght as I like the way it performs in the high wind conditions.It is still unlimited vertical and will 3d with the best out there.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

ZayZay1,

I just put my well broken in DA-50 with NX-22-8 prop on a digital fish scale this past weekend. With the standard DA muffler (side dump) I got a solid 29 pounds of thrust. Now I might imagine that would come down one or two pounds in the summer.

So if you went with a stock setup you might see something like 27 lbs thrust on a 17.5 lb takeoff weight that would be 1.55 to one power to weight.

Add a tuned pipe and pick up a pound of weight and 5 lbs thrust (educated guess) and you might see something like 1.73 to one power to weight. That would be ok in my book.

If you are starting from scratch and need ultimate power, watch the EF build thread and see what Chris gets on the Brielli 60.;)

Bigger airframes do fly better!

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Is that wet? 17.5 lb with a full fuel tank at take off?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

is the one in the 3d video on the extreme flight site with or without the pipe.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

with pipe

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

The ONLY thing remotely negative about the orig EF Yak was that it was too light for precision in strong winds......SO that should make this new one just about PEREFECT.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Zayzay1, are you currently flying a 50cc class Yak. And if so, who is the manufacturer.. In case you have been in hibernation for the last 2 yrs, other than the Ultra RC Yak (which is an exact copy of the original EF Yak), most of the 80 - 85" Yaks out there run in the 17 - 18+ lb range with 1250 -1350 sq in wing area. The exception being the QQ 85" Yak. So where is the problem with a 88" Yak, 1450 sq in at 16 1/2 - 17 lbs? If in fact you have been in hibernation, now you have some real world information. If not, then you soun a whole lot like a TROLL.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Zayzay1, have you seen the first video Chris did on the new Yak? If so, did it look like it flew " heavy " to you? Wake up & smell the coffee.

I have an original EF Yak that started at 15 lb 2 oz. After 5 major repairs it is at 15 lb 8 oz, with 140 flights on it, it is an exceptional aerobatic & 3D aircraft.

With that kind of experience, don't you think I would be looking forward to Chris's new offering. Of course I would. Put that info together with all the great planes he has brought to market, do you think he would bring a "dog" this time?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I am just trying to get information from everyone else since I really have very little experience with gas planes especially over 77". I just see it this way I could get the original ef yak 87" from ultra-rc or I could get the new 88" yak and I would have to stick with it for a while, because either airframes comes out to over $700 shipped. I just want to make the right decision no troll here,,,

and what I have gotten from all of this is that the 88" is a bigger plane and of course bigger planes fly better.


ohh and videos from any company always leave a lot to be desired,, usually knowing the exact setup is a plus, and so is the lbs of torque that the engine was putting out.


(and yeah it so far seems alot better than all of the competition) almost everyone else is 17lbs and over with a smaller airframe

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

There are so many behind the scenes details that in the end make of break an airplane design. You simply can't go by size and weight only. Airfoil selection and thickness, position of wing and stab with relationship to thrust line, canopy shape and a great many more little details will in the end determine how well the airplane will fly. The Radiowave 40% Extra is a fine example of this. It is bigger, heavier that most offerings in the 150cc market. Did that make it a pig of an airplane? Absolutly not, the airplane through design carried the additional weight very well. The airplane has the ability to track well at lower airspeeds and not feel underpowered. it has and continues to do well in the IMAC arena and placed well in the 2002 TOC at high altitude. I would expect the same is going to hold true with this Yak. I myself will never understand how an airplane that has yet to be delivered to customers can be faulted. I look forward to seeing how this new Yak is going to perform. I still have hopes that Chris will put out a 40% Extra 300.


Shawn

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I really want to know what the CG is of the airplane in the video?????

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I would guess it is neutrally balanced. If my info is correct, it was one flight, broken into 3 seperate videos, IMAC, hovering, & 3D. The plane seemed to do all of them well. It did not appear to be nose heavy, making it difficult to hover & 3D. It also did not appear to be tail heavy. It didn't appear to be sensitive in pitch. I'm sure there will be a range of CG recommended in the manual, and a real world concensus from the guys who build this Yak.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Best thing to do is just wait... planes are on US soil as we speak and will soon be in the hands of twenty very anxious new expectee's...

I'm one of them.

We'll know weights, loadouts, opportunities for lightening, etc...

From just switching to stock muffler will save nearly 3/4 lb... CF gear might save 6 OZ... Leaving spats, gear fairings and fake louvers off... another 5 oz

Chris stated his airframe weighs 10.38 lbs out of box...

I add 6.5 lbs with a stock DA50/muffler setup coming to 16.88 lbs...

If I leave of the spats, fake louver and gear fairings (purely choice options, scale acoutrements) I'm at a little over 16.6 lbs

And if I wanted to maybe save the 6 oz with CF gear? WELL under 16.3 lbs

Now it's possible Chris missed a part or something in the weighinging... we'll find out soon enough... I doubt it though...

As I said.... we'll all know soon enough from firsthand experience and actual loadouts...

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Zayzay1, there is a lot of talk on the other thread about cannisters, tuned pipes, 60cc engines, etc. You are a little closer to sea level than I am,here in Texas, so a simple, light setup with a quality 50cc engine & standard exhaust will provide superior performance from this plane. It would be much more affordabe,too.

I don't think specific torque figures are important. They differ with geography,air temp, humidity,engine, props, fuel mixture,& probably other factors I haven't thought of.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I agree with Maudib. The planes are here in the US and soon to be in the hands of twenty lucky people. Lets just sit back get a bag of popcorn and see what kind of setups these guys use. Then we will have all the real world answers to what kind of plane this is going to be.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I don't think it looks too heavy at all on the videos as far as wingloading is concerned. As rcblimppro correctly wrote, wingloading is by far the only parameter. And according to one of the other threads, it's even 18.5 lbs dry, so probably 19 lbs wet.

However, I think it* lacks power in the videos (my oppinion - feel free to disagree). Considering how light it seems to fly, it looks like it could handle an extra few pounds for an 80cc and would benefit from it to overcome the increased drag, which is probably more of a concern than the weight.

* "It" being the specific combination of model and engine as depicted in the videos and discussed in this thread.
[Edited for clarity for Doug, post 23]

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Forgive my ignorance but since when has drag been a problem. Most people talk about how nicely a plane slows up on down lines or how easy it is to keep a consistant speed. Drag won't imact on immediate pull out either, you may not accelerate so fast but the power to hold the model and get out of trouble will still be there, no?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Tor, in what maneuvers do you feel it lacked power?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I thought Extreme Flight just built the plane, I didn't realize that Extreme was responsible for the lack of power or the motor we put on the thing?
Maybe I should read the fine print under : Motor 50cc to 60cc

Good Day!

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

YakMan... :) Now now....

You CAN easily fo this plane with the stock muffler and be real happy... especially if you do the few little things to keep it light as possible.

Flatspin you are SO right... in 3D/high alpha maneuvers... drag isn't a concern... and that "drag" also adds to the lift coefficient in all attitudes.


Tor... we've already been down this road... you prefer more power than what you feel is evident in the video... that's perfectly fine... but that is subjective.

I thought it was quite decent... and based ont eh airframe weights, I don't think CHris' 18.5 lb weight is going to be the norm with a DA50... sub 17 lbs is doable and that's without seeing the airframe.

I'm shooting for 17.5 lbs with the Brillelli 60... and will love every minute of it...

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Forgive my ignorance but since when has drag been a problem I assume he is talking about for IMAC where drag, power and weight all play an important part on how the model will perform.

To my eyes it looked fine in the pull out. Not amazing by any means but pretty good. Think it would struggle a bit in a one roll rolling loop though.

T

ps just a thought, this model is for 50cc right, coming in at ~17lbs. 50cc for 17lbs equates to 51lbs for 150cc which I would say is heavy. Most 150cc models are late 30's early 40lb range. Basically I'm saying that, IMO this model is not 50cc size, at least if you're wanting excellent IMAC performance in ALL weather.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

So using your equation a 50cc plane should be at 13.33 lbs? Not hardly.

Again it's subjective. Up until the Extreme Flight 87" Yak, there WEREN'T any real sub 16 lb 50cc airframes.

The 50cc response from many manufacturers was either 18 lbs+ on 1400+ sq in... or Dinking down the airframe/wingarea like the H9 Extra 260 and PA Edge 540...

Over the past year we've seen several good sub 17 and even some sub 16 lb models come to market... quite nice... so there is a lot to choose from.

I keep hearing 18.5 lbs is too heavy for a 50cc to 3D... yet the video shows VERY CLEARLY it is not... and that is with a tuned pipe and 3/4 extra weight.

Some may have the personal desire for more power, more pullout, more power to weight... and by all means have at it... The plane will take more weight.

But for many the 50cc-60cc option is the better choice... trading a little power for better wingloading...

THe plane in the video pulls out of a hover pretty decently... it knife edge loops very nicely thanks to that extra "drag" and authoritative rudder, it harriers very well and generally appears VERY stable.

For every person that doesn't own one and says it's not enough.... there will be a hundred that DO own one and says it rocks... in my book majority rules when applying a "rating" to something.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Doug, I am actually saying that this model looks like it flies very light. I don't know why you don't understand that desired power may differ from person to person. Even futher, I don't know why you want to do any "anti-TORanything". Instead try to realise and respect that people have different oppinions.

Chris, I wrote this in the other thread aswell. Primarily, t seems like is loses momentum after the vertical snaps, and is having a hardtime regaining. I would imagine it would have a hard time doing multiple vertical snaps?

I don't know why people make such a fuzz about this, I think it looks like an excellent flying model and stunning looks too. To say that it is too heavy is rubbish when looking at the videos - it's a floater! Those who are contempt with a little less power than on the 80-85" offerings may go for 50cc with or without a pipe. And those (like myself) that desire a little more may go for 60 to 80cc.

As I currently have no gassers I am considering this model for the old ZDZ 80 (lighter than the super). I think that the Evolution 58 may be a good choice aswell, but since the ZDZ is about the same weight, why not get the extra power?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Problem is that since the advent of shock fliers and aero park flyers on brushless motors etc, the term 3D in the context of IC has become distorted.

People who have flown these elec models and then get a biggy are looking for a biggy version of the leccy.

Those of us that grew up before the shocky came along, and those of us with F3A blood too, recognise that achieving shocky type power to weight is not the be all and end all....

Sure if you want to prop hang and tumble all day but there is more to that in AA than this - like flying a straight smooth train track line for example !

:)

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Tor,
I can guarantee that you would be more than happy with any Extreme Flight model and the way it flies.
The interrpertation of how the plane pulls out of a hover is atmost a personal preference.
I presently own a EF 87" Yak and have dreamed of the day when EF would offer a new plane to the public. That day is just around the corner for me. I have a DA 50 w/ less than a gallon thru it and have order the Brillelli to satisfy my power trip.

I apoligize for the play on words and have edited it, but I will give you my honest opinion THAT YOU SHOULD GET ON THE LIST FOR THE YAK OR THE EXTRA. For those of us that have had an "Extreme Flight Experience" the wait has been too long.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Thanks Doug, no worries. I edited my first post as well.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

To an extent. The 150cc models I've seen at the ~40lb mark and my own at 37lb have been more potent than your 15-16lb 50cc jobs. I’m certain that a model of this 88" size and weight will struggle in a wind when doing IMAC with a puny 5hp engine up front. Need an extra 1.5 - 2hp. If you always fly in calm wind or all you want to do it pull gently out of a prop hang then a 5hp engine will suffice. But we don’t always fly in calm wind do we.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

We've gone so far over the top with the weight thing it's not even funny anymore. We worry to excess over a pound or so in a plane with 1,400 square inches of wing area, and most would not be able to note any real differences between two of the same planes that were only a pound apart in weight. Worse, we publically castrate any manufacturer that produces a plane that fails to make a weight that WE think it should be produced at, when most of those purchasing the planes don't even know how to build one themselves.

Have we lost so much knowledge and ability that we no longer remember how to manage energy or airspeeds in flight? I won't ask if we have lost the ability to create a plane from scratch or assemble a box of parts to make it a plane. This I believe we have sacrficed to arfs. Folks, we really need to learn how to fly again, and re-discover the fundamentals of flying on the wing. The engine and propeller were never designed to be the primary sources of lift...

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Well said...if you want to prop hang all day then get a profile...excess power is really overrated for everything except hovering IMO...Im talking 3D..maybe things are different with IMAC but for most of the 3D moves you are usually at 1/2 throttle or less anyway..Also If Chris' weights are accurate and you dont run a pipe, Im sure you can it under 17bs...

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

I am on getting one of the first 20 and live at 4000ft, am I worried.....no. I fly a TOC Yak that comes in at 17 1/2 pounds, this plane has plenty of power for 3d, could it use more, perhaps but I have never found myself in a situation where it was a problem. With the way the new EF appears to fly am I not worried.

That being said the if the yak weighs more out of the box than expected mine will get bme110, have it sitting on the shelf might as well use it. If it tears up the airframe...oh well, I paid for it. Have fun, gonna be exciting to see these start flying.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Let's see, you saw the video. You thought it had good pullout from a hover, you saw it do a knife edge loop, but yet you wonder if it has the power to do a one roll rolling loop? You can't be serious, can you?

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

You can take all the numbers and shove them. They don't mean a thing, its the way the plane flys. I have flown a too light 40% and didn't care for it and a 43% Yak that was a freakin BRICK and it rocked in the air. I would have lost money on both of those bets.

The numbers do not always tell the tail of how an airplane flys and 3D's.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

Post # 2 now that I read though all the post.

If you can pull off a one roll loop, you should know, you shouldn't have to ask. And the loop with a bird other than a foamy.

Takes more than reading RCU to be a pilot.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

.

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

http://www.shakes-net.com/images/deargod_stop.jpg

RE: new extreme flight rc 88" yak too heavy??
 

It did the KE loop reasonably well. But judging by the way it performed it I think it would struggle in a wind starting downwind.

I have never at any stage said this model was overweight. All I'm saying is that for TOC type performance you will need a bigger engine up front.

I assume that comment was aimed at myself. Gimme a break. This is a discussion forum where we discuss things. Public castration, what a joke. In essence all I said was that the model performs well, but for excellent performance in all weather you would need a touch more power. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there another thread on RCU where someone who you may be familiar with is building one with a 60cc up front? I arrest my case.