Great Planes Giant Citabria GP/EP ARF 85"
10-28-2014, 07:06 PM
#251
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Maidened mine today in a 10-12mph quartering headwind. Mine is probably about 6 ozs. heavier than typical (DLE35RA, 2-1800 LiFE RX batts w/dual switches, 1- 1100 LiFe IGN batt, upgraded to Du-Bro Low-Bounce rubber tires) - this took an additional 2 ozs. of lead in the tail to balance at 3.5". After setting this thing up 20 times without tearing the fabric on the fuse, I managed to put a gash in it today with the left strut! Plenty of power even with the smallish 18x8 Xoar and the engine ran flawlessly. My low rates were halfway between the recommended low and high rates and I was surprised at how quick the roll rate was after takeoff. I have an aileron to rudder mix of 10% and it seems like a good starting point. I also set up an inflight-adjustable flap-to-elevator mix (12% down-I believe) and it was way too much. The pitch change with flap extension is minimal and I am going to remove the mix altogether on the next flight. Many positive comments on the appearance from other flyers.
I wheel-landed it (main-gear only at touchdown) and, surprisingly, no bounce and no gear bending ( I took measurements before-and-after 17.5"wide and 4 5/8" deep ). I realize that this is only one flight, but, so far its holding up - I believe the Du-Bro wheels are much more forgiving and a worthwhile 8 dollar investment.
My only real complaints thus far are the broken tailwheel shaft and the recommended "Shoe Goo" used on the cowl ring is slowly melting away due to exhaust heat and/or fuel/oil residue,,,
I wheel-landed it (main-gear only at touchdown) and, surprisingly, no bounce and no gear bending ( I took measurements before-and-after 17.5"wide and 4 5/8" deep ). I realize that this is only one flight, but, so far its holding up - I believe the Du-Bro wheels are much more forgiving and a worthwhile 8 dollar investment.
My only real complaints thus far are the broken tailwheel shaft and the recommended "Shoe Goo" used on the cowl ring is slowly melting away due to exhaust heat and/or fuel/oil residue,,,
10-28-2014, 08:08 PM
#252
After the the flight I gave her a look around to make sure everything was there and in place, fuel consumption was about 2/3 of the tank, the amount of fuel left in the tank could have flown her for about another five minutes ( my style ) I also checked the 2600 LI-FE batt, all good and ready for the second flight.
The second flight was even better, by now I was very comfortable this her, the TO was again solid, straight, on this flight I manage to do more slow flight follow by a few stalls with full flaps, the stalls are a non event, straight ahead, wings level, no tendency to tip stall even when you hold up full Elevator for multiple stalls, with a light wind up high, full Elevator and full flaps deployed she could almost float.
On this flight I also try some inverted flight, because the nose been a bit on the heavy side she needed a small push, the approach again high with power and landed on the gras runway with a moderate bounce then a roll.
The second flight was even better, by now I was very comfortable this her, the TO was again solid, straight, on this flight I manage to do more slow flight follow by a few stalls with full flaps, the stalls are a non event, straight ahead, wings level, no tendency to tip stall even when you hold up full Elevator for multiple stalls, with a light wind up high, full Elevator and full flaps deployed she could almost float.
On this flight I also try some inverted flight, because the nose been a bit on the heavy side she needed a small push, the approach again high with power and landed on the gras runway with a moderate bounce then a roll.
Last edited by CARS II; 10-28-2014 at 08:30 PM.
10-28-2014, 08:41 PM
#253
The third flight.
First I readjusted the engine for a more leaner mix, TO, this time it was short with a hard climbing right turn, up high I tried more maneuver, by now I was comfortable with the airplane ( that easy )
This flight was short because I wanted to do multiple landings, the landings came like this, a three pointer, for this one you need to carry power all the way down, a wheel landing one and a hard bounce one on the mains fixed by adding throttle to a three pointer.
All in all, I have to say that this is going to be a sweet ride, yes it has some things that have to be addressed by their owners whichever way they choose to.
As in the past, this is my airplane now I will take care of what ever needs to be taken care of my self.
First I readjusted the engine for a more leaner mix, TO, this time it was short with a hard climbing right turn, up high I tried more maneuver, by now I was comfortable with the airplane ( that easy )
This flight was short because I wanted to do multiple landings, the landings came like this, a three pointer, for this one you need to carry power all the way down, a wheel landing one and a hard bounce one on the mains fixed by adding throttle to a three pointer.
All in all, I have to say that this is going to be a sweet ride, yes it has some things that have to be addressed by their owners whichever way they choose to.
As in the past, this is my airplane now I will take care of what ever needs to be taken care of my self.
Last edited by CARS II; 10-28-2014 at 08:54 PM.
10-28-2014, 09:06 PM
#254
UOTE=jimkim;11907336]Great Planes Citabria: Response to posted comments on the internet
Lately there have been comments on the Great Planes Citabria. We would like to take a moment to address them with those of you who have concerns.
There have been a small number of individuals posting that the landing gear on this airplane are too soft and bends easily. Firstly, we want to assure all of you that the landing gear was thoroughly tested during the plane's development. This included flights from grass and asphalt as well as purposeful hard landings as part of the testing. During this time we did not encounter any problems with the gear failing. Both of those test airplanes were active all summer and are still actively being flown at shows for demonstrations. After a few postings on the internet we thought it would be prudent to check to see if there had been changes in the manufacturing of the gear. The first thing we did was confirm with the factory that there had been no changes since the prototypes were created. The second thing we did was to do a Rockwell hardness test on the currently supplied landing gear and the landing gear used for the prototypes. This test confirmed that in fact the hardness and temper of the prototypes and the production models were the same. We have been following the various threads and see that some of you have been using larger engines or making modifications that could increase the weight. If a plane does become heavier through the modification process this will affect the landing gear. So far the comments on the landing gear represent a very small fraction of the number of planes sold. Though not conclusive it does lead us to believe that the landing gear problem as stated may not be a widespread issue. If you were to purchase a replacement gear from Great Planes it would be the same landing gear supplied with the kit. Some of you have asked if there is an after-market landing gear available. To our knowledge there is not one available. Our current gear is a 6061-T-6 aluminum. This is very good quality aluminum and has been used regularly and successfully on many of our large scale offerings. Other metal options, carbon fiber, etc. are not a cost effective option that the modeling community will accept. Understand, Great Planes always strives to release the very best products at a competitive price.
There have also been comments made about the struts. If you install the struts and strut brackets as instructed in the manual they work well and require minimum assembly time at the field. The wing was purposely design to be in two pieces for easier storage and transportation. A few comments have been made to us that putting the wing onto the fuselage with the struts installed caused the struts to puncture the fuselage covering. If you try to install the wing directly over the wing saddle the struts are long enough to contact the fuselage and potentially make a hole. The proper way to install the wing with the struts installed is to place the assembled wing over the top of the fuselage behind the wing saddle where the fuselage is significantly narrower. Slide the wing forward into position. When sliding the wing forward the strut brackets are now under the fuselage where they will not cause damage.
Great Planes R&D staff
[/QUOTE]
This are the pictures I took before and after each flight, come out with your own conclutions, they are in sequence with the flights, some of the landings were done at an average modeler's Landing day ( not everybody can land perfectly every single time )
Lately there have been comments on the Great Planes Citabria. We would like to take a moment to address them with those of you who have concerns.
There have been a small number of individuals posting that the landing gear on this airplane are too soft and bends easily. Firstly, we want to assure all of you that the landing gear was thoroughly tested during the plane's development. This included flights from grass and asphalt as well as purposeful hard landings as part of the testing. During this time we did not encounter any problems with the gear failing. Both of those test airplanes were active all summer and are still actively being flown at shows for demonstrations. After a few postings on the internet we thought it would be prudent to check to see if there had been changes in the manufacturing of the gear. The first thing we did was confirm with the factory that there had been no changes since the prototypes were created. The second thing we did was to do a Rockwell hardness test on the currently supplied landing gear and the landing gear used for the prototypes. This test confirmed that in fact the hardness and temper of the prototypes and the production models were the same. We have been following the various threads and see that some of you have been using larger engines or making modifications that could increase the weight. If a plane does become heavier through the modification process this will affect the landing gear. So far the comments on the landing gear represent a very small fraction of the number of planes sold. Though not conclusive it does lead us to believe that the landing gear problem as stated may not be a widespread issue. If you were to purchase a replacement gear from Great Planes it would be the same landing gear supplied with the kit. Some of you have asked if there is an after-market landing gear available. To our knowledge there is not one available. Our current gear is a 6061-T-6 aluminum. This is very good quality aluminum and has been used regularly and successfully on many of our large scale offerings. Other metal options, carbon fiber, etc. are not a cost effective option that the modeling community will accept. Understand, Great Planes always strives to release the very best products at a competitive price.
There have also been comments made about the struts. If you install the struts and strut brackets as instructed in the manual they work well and require minimum assembly time at the field. The wing was purposely design to be in two pieces for easier storage and transportation. A few comments have been made to us that putting the wing onto the fuselage with the struts installed caused the struts to puncture the fuselage covering. If you try to install the wing directly over the wing saddle the struts are long enough to contact the fuselage and potentially make a hole. The proper way to install the wing with the struts installed is to place the assembled wing over the top of the fuselage behind the wing saddle where the fuselage is significantly narrower. Slide the wing forward into position. When sliding the wing forward the strut brackets are now under the fuselage where they will not cause damage.
Great Planes R&D staff
[/QUOTE]
This are the pictures I took before and after each flight, come out with your own conclutions, they are in sequence with the flights, some of the landings were done at an average modeler's Landing day ( not everybody can land perfectly every single time )
Last edited by CARS II; 10-28-2014 at 09:36 PM.
10-28-2014, 09:58 PM
#256
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Carlos,
I like your gear mod and may do something similar if/when mine starts to bend. The full-scale Citabria/Decathlon has a small step (for checking the fuel tanks w/o a ladder) about 2 1/2" wide by 6" long just about where your upper 2 gear joiner bolts are. It'd be easy to make a small step to go over the upper gear bolts.....
I like your gear mod and may do something similar if/when mine starts to bend. The full-scale Citabria/Decathlon has a small step (for checking the fuel tanks w/o a ladder) about 2 1/2" wide by 6" long just about where your upper 2 gear joiner bolts are. It'd be easy to make a small step to go over the upper gear bolts.....
10-28-2014, 10:02 PM
#257
No problem and welcome.
If you asked me one thing and only one that you should remember on the day that you maiden your airplane it will be to remember to carry power all the way down to the runway to prevent a stall on final and to prevent from running out of Elevator on your final flare.
Happy landings.
If you asked me one thing and only one that you should remember on the day that you maiden your airplane it will be to remember to carry power all the way down to the runway to prevent a stall on final and to prevent from running out of Elevator on your final flare.
Happy landings.
Last edited by CARS II; 10-28-2014 at 10:21 PM.
10-29-2014, 03:55 AM
#259
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Carlos;
From your Pictures, it would appear that even with your doubling or reinforcing of the Landing Gear Legs, that the gear still wants to Bend or Widen outwards as well?
From your Pictures, it would appear that even with your doubling or reinforcing of the Landing Gear Legs, that the gear still wants to Bend or Widen outwards as well?
10-29-2014, 07:49 AM
#260
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The Model is absolutely fabulous. If I thought I couldn't over come the gear problem Id get out of R/C. I fly jets that exceed 35 lbs without bending the gear. 4 oz over weight should NOT be enough to bend the gear.. In the air I also notices the quick responce of the ailerons. I also agree with cars to carry a bit of power on short final. I am not new to flying I get my private ticket in 1976 i have 1500 hours Ive owned 10 Private planes in that time I still have My Cessna 177B Cardinal. I for a while owned a Cessna 182 gas hog. I have 15 hours in a Decathlon,
10-29-2014, 08:27 AM
#261
It appears so, I suspected it was going to give some, some of the landings were intended to stress the gear more than the usual to find out if this is a durable fix.
Today I will be flying some more and will keep measuring the distance between the gears.
Today I will be flying some more and will keep measuring the distance between the gears.
10-29-2014, 10:02 AM
#264
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I recall not too long ago that I made a comment that this might happen. If the gear is beefed up and the metal is not tempered correctly, then it will just take more time for the same thing to happen. It would also be nice to have a gear that takes some of the shock of landing out and springs back to make the landings stick better.
Now my giant Revolver is a perfect example of that. Same type of gear, heavier (20+ pounds) and in two years I have never had to adjust the gear.
Maybe there is a place that can temper this metal to what is needed?
Now my giant Revolver is a perfect example of that. Same type of gear, heavier (20+ pounds) and in two years I have never had to adjust the gear.
Maybe there is a place that can temper this metal to what is needed?
10-29-2014, 11:14 AM
#265
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
I recall not too long ago that I made a comment that this might happen. If the gear is beefed up and the metal is not tempered correctly, then it will just take more time for the same thing to happen. It would also be nice to have a gear that takes some of the shock of landing out and springs back to make the landings stick better.
Now my giant Revolver is a perfect example of that. Same type of gear, heavier (20+ pounds) and in two years I have never had to adjust the gear.
Maybe there is a place that can temper this metal to what is needed?
Now my giant Revolver is a perfect example of that. Same type of gear, heavier (20+ pounds) and in two years I have never had to adjust the gear.
Maybe there is a place that can temper this metal to what is needed?
Great Planes R&D Staff
10-29-2014, 12:56 PM
#266
Gutzmer
I will have to give you that, yes, you mentioned here before.
I have a respond to my request for help regarding the gear and will be reporting back after I have installed and flown it for at least 10 flights.
In the mean time I'm off to the field to do some more flying with this AWESOME! airplane.
I said it before and will say it again, this is airplane is a joy to build, fly and show off at the field.
Thank you Great Planes for taking the time to come out with such a nice Citabria and for listening to your customers, keep up the good work.
Ps: I couldn't have build this airplane with so many details and a short amount of time for the price that I paid for it
Go ahead, get one :-D
Happy landings.
I will have to give you that, yes, you mentioned here before.
I have a respond to my request for help regarding the gear and will be reporting back after I have installed and flown it for at least 10 flights.
In the mean time I'm off to the field to do some more flying with this AWESOME! airplane.
I said it before and will say it again, this is airplane is a joy to build, fly and show off at the field.
Thank you Great Planes for taking the time to come out with such a nice Citabria and for listening to your customers, keep up the good work.
Ps: I couldn't have build this airplane with so many details and a short amount of time for the price that I paid for it
Go ahead, get one :-D
Happy landings.
Last edited by CARS II; 10-29-2014 at 01:04 PM.
10-29-2014, 04:03 PM
#267
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The Model is absolutely fabulous. If I thought I couldn't over come the gear problem Id get out of R/C. I fly jets that exceed 35 lbs without bending the gear. 4 oz over weight should NOT be enough to bend the gear.. In the air I also notices the quick responce of the ailerons. I also agree with cars to carry a bit of power on short final. I am not new to flying I get my private ticket in 1976 i have 1500 hours Ive owned 10 Private planes in that time I still have My Cessna 177B Cardinal. I for a while owned a Cessna 182 gas hog. I have 15 hours in a Decathlon,
10-30-2014, 03:03 AM
#268
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I have both the 50cc Revolver and the new Citabria. The Citabria gear bends quite easily and after a half-dozen flights, I pretty much put it up for the fall, waiting to see if GP would issue a fix or a new landing gear. Mine has a DLE 30 and two LiFe 3200 mah battery packs. She's not overweight by any means, tipping the scale at around 14.5 lbs. The gear on the Revolver also has a tendency to bend outward. I've been flying my Revolver for two seasons now. All modesty aside, I'm very adept at landings (like others, also flew full-scale aircraft) and I can say that the Revolver gear slowly starts to spread out and eventually needs to be bent back into correct position. GP has had gear issue on many other aircraft, including the former 50cc Yak 54 (poor/weak landing gear mounting plate in the fuselage). I also have a number of Aero-Works aircraft and never had a soft landing gear or problem with the gear not holding up to almost any reasonable landing without splaying outwards, so we know it can be done, even for aircraft weighing over 20+ pounds. I also wish to thank GP for joining us on this thread and echo that this is not an isolated instance. If you only perform one takeoff and landing cycle per flight, it may take a few flights begore you see the landing gear problem. But if you perform a number of takeoffs/landings in each flight, you will notice this issue on the first flight, even with relatively smooth landings. It's almost impossible to perform a 1G landing, particularly if you fly off of a grass field, like most of us do.
10-30-2014, 06:39 AM
#269
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I also want to thank GP for watching, I have a 4 year old TF skylane with billions of flights and the gear is perfect. And It has been landed less than greased a bunch of times. The Citabria is a Fabulous Model. If the soft gear is the only issue,than Id say great. By the way How about doing My Cessna 177 B Classic Plane and It is Strut less. and You could use the gear off of the skylane.. LOL. Thanks for doing Civil Aircraft..
10-30-2014, 06:45 AM
#270
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Im pondering what I want to Build this winter. Im thinking a Sig 1/4 scale Cub. If the Mosquito Bite Tri Pacer wasn't so high Id do it, $400.00 shipped it ridiculous for a box of wood. Plan built 28 inch model Tri Pacer.
Last edited by drdoom; 10-30-2014 at 07:02 AM.
