Great Planes Giant Citabria GP/EP ARF 85"
11-01-2014, 07:10 AM
#276
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I think it is becoming clear that the LG problem is not just a small percentage of us. Im sure there are a lot of people that don't complain or join in on forums. I didn't for years! Anyway, we have a cold front coming through Florida, it's in the 60s and windy. Very windy. So no flying this weekend.
11-02-2014, 04:25 PM
#281
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well I was not going to fly this weekend because of the wind, but it was better than expected this morning. After removing the gear and paint and tempering in the oven I wanted to test it out. So with the wind at a 45 degree angle and at 10 MPH it was a good day to test. Take off was very straight forward. I flew around and did a little trimming. I tried some inverted flight which required a little down elevator to maintain, very normal. I flew around mostly at half throttle. With this 40cc I can easily do vertical snap rolls forever.
Slow flight into the wind with full flaps was at a stand still with a head wind.
On my approach too much flap was just like putting on the brakes. Half flap or less is much better. I really expected some kind of flare out and settle in, but with half flap and a head wind, as soon as I flared out it just dropped. I was only just above the ground about 6 inches, but it dropped out much earlier than expected and landed, a little hard. The big question is the landing gear. It did flare out a little, but not really noticeable. But I did expect it to do bend much more. So I am convinced that tempering the gear did help.
Now I really did want to fly again and try landing without flaps, but the wind changed from the North West to the North (runway E W) and began gusting to about 15 or more. Now there were 4 other's there and one said that for sure the gear did spread some. But everyone raved about the 40cc twin and how powerful it was and how great it sounded. Everyone agreed that the plane looked great. One of the guy's there also has this Citabria, and on it's first flight he squashed out the gear. He said that using music wire and springs he built up something to support the gear and give it more spring. But it sounded complex and he did not have a photo. But, that is yet another example of how soft this gear is.
Now setup at the field is easy with another person. But I can do it by my self. I just hold the ends of the wing struts and lower the wing into place. Don't do what GP says and slid it in from the back. Yes the fuse is tapered, but the taper stops at about where the back door frame would start.
Inserting the wing dowels is the trick. With the wing mostly in position I can release the strut ends just under the fuse connection. Then just insert the wing dowels, and hope the struts don't jump out of place.
I would recommend this as a fair weather flyer. An advanced flyer can handle the winds with this plane, but take offs and landings are not as easy as you would think with this gentle flyer. The Great Planes giant Revolver is a much easier plane to fly than this. It can handle crow winds and perfect landings are easy. So I am happy with it, but still have concerns with the LG.
Slow flight into the wind with full flaps was at a stand still with a head wind.
On my approach too much flap was just like putting on the brakes. Half flap or less is much better. I really expected some kind of flare out and settle in, but with half flap and a head wind, as soon as I flared out it just dropped. I was only just above the ground about 6 inches, but it dropped out much earlier than expected and landed, a little hard. The big question is the landing gear. It did flare out a little, but not really noticeable. But I did expect it to do bend much more. So I am convinced that tempering the gear did help.
Now I really did want to fly again and try landing without flaps, but the wind changed from the North West to the North (runway E W) and began gusting to about 15 or more. Now there were 4 other's there and one said that for sure the gear did spread some. But everyone raved about the 40cc twin and how powerful it was and how great it sounded. Everyone agreed that the plane looked great. One of the guy's there also has this Citabria, and on it's first flight he squashed out the gear. He said that using music wire and springs he built up something to support the gear and give it more spring. But it sounded complex and he did not have a photo. But, that is yet another example of how soft this gear is.
Now setup at the field is easy with another person. But I can do it by my self. I just hold the ends of the wing struts and lower the wing into place. Don't do what GP says and slid it in from the back. Yes the fuse is tapered, but the taper stops at about where the back door frame would start.
Inserting the wing dowels is the trick. With the wing mostly in position I can release the strut ends just under the fuse connection. Then just insert the wing dowels, and hope the struts don't jump out of place.
I would recommend this as a fair weather flyer. An advanced flyer can handle the winds with this plane, but take offs and landings are not as easy as you would think with this gentle flyer. The Great Planes giant Revolver is a much easier plane to fly than this. It can handle crow winds and perfect landings are easy. So I am happy with it, but still have concerns with the LG.
11-02-2014, 09:12 PM
#282
Gutzmer
Thank you for the flight report, soon this gear problem will be a thing of the past, now, I will be doing an firewall mode that needs to be done before it happens, not a big thing, it just needs to be done, I will be posting pics of how I did it tomorrow Monday.
Thank you for the flight report, soon this gear problem will be a thing of the past, now, I will be doing an firewall mode that needs to be done before it happens, not a big thing, it just needs to be done, I will be posting pics of how I did it tomorrow Monday.
11-03-2014, 10:39 AM
#284
Gutzmer, could you post exactly how you tempered your landing gear legs. Did you also temper the joining metal piece that bolts on to the top of the gear? I assume you removed the paint first. I guess my questions are; what was the oven temp setting and length time in the oven and how did you do the cool down?
I have had my Citabria for a couple months, it is assembled and I have been reading the mods as they are posted. I have a DLE 35RA on it and have run it on the airplane. I am trying to work out the best way to assemble the airplane at the field without damaging the fuselage sides.The method of shorting the struts and lengthening the tab out of the fuselage sounds like the best fix.
I am holding off flying until I am finished with the cataract surgery on both eyes, the right eye was done last week and the left will be done in about a month. Seemed like a good time to get this done after the flying season. By the time I can fly again the Citabria should have all the bugs worked out.
Thanks everyone for your posts
Rich
I have had my Citabria for a couple months, it is assembled and I have been reading the mods as they are posted. I have a DLE 35RA on it and have run it on the airplane. I am trying to work out the best way to assemble the airplane at the field without damaging the fuselage sides.The method of shorting the struts and lengthening the tab out of the fuselage sounds like the best fix.
I am holding off flying until I am finished with the cataract surgery on both eyes, the right eye was done last week and the left will be done in about a month. Seemed like a good time to get this done after the flying season. By the time I can fly again the Citabria should have all the bugs worked out.
Thanks everyone for your posts
Rich
11-03-2014, 01:32 PM
#286
My Citabria is almost ready, still need to check the CG and tie wrap all the rc wires in the fuse. Except for a standard Pitts muffler for the DLE 30, everything else is stock, no mods whatsoever at this point. I added some medium CA to all the joints in the engine box/firewall area and as with all my other gas planes, also added an opto kill switch. As for the wings, I attached the whole wing strut assembly, including the interplane struts to the wings before installing the wing. I have test installed the wings 3 times so far, the first time I followed GP directions and while it didn't rip the covering, it still left some marks on one side which were easily removed with a sealing iron. I realized this works better if the tail is raised enough to keep the top of the plane level, the servo wires should be kept out of the way (I used Velcro), it is a real pain when you get to the wing saddle area. The second time I spread the struts with my fingers while sliding the whole wing, but the wing is so heavy it becomes really hard to move and set up with my fingertips keeping the struts away from the fuse sides, this could be easily done with four hands (two people). This time I messed up only once which caused a slight mark on the right side, which was again, ironed out. The third time I brought the wing almost straight down while holding and spreading the struts, it took a few minutes and lots of extra care, but I managed to do it, with no marks or scratches. Of course this was all done in a controlled environment inside a room. I am sure assembling it at the field will be a different story, especially if it is windy. I think the fact that the wing is fairly heavy makes it harder to handle. I will be waiting for a perfect day to maiden, no 10+ mph winds, no crosswinds, etc., then and only then, I will find out how bad this landing gear really is, assuming I can nail a perfect landing, yeah right. Easier said than done. 
Last edited by Planeclothes; 11-03-2014 at 06:53 PM.
11-03-2014, 08:57 PM
#287
Well I tried it again, installed the wing/struts coming straight down, it takes some "maneuvering" keeping my fingers between the struts ends and the fuse. Right now, the hardest part is removing it since gravity works against me and it is hard to lift up the wing by the struts. No damage to the fuse sides covering but the wing's underside (where it makes contact with the wing saddle) was dented in a couple of places. Don't know if that was caused by the wire bundle or the wing saddle itself. Also did a ballpark CG check and it seems to be about 3.5", but next time I will take a more accurate measurement. According to my digital fish scale, total dry weight is 14.15 lbs.
11-04-2014, 09:08 AM
#288
I have always been a Citabria fan so I have been reading this thread and the one on the other site with interest. I hate to be sounding like I am defending GP but the landing gear issue is IMO more difficult then one would think. The gear should be designed to absorb the shock of landings without transferring that load to the gear plate. It looks like the stock gear is doing just that. The problem obviously is that the gear is not springing back to it's original shape. Not all 6061 T6 is created equal as we can clearly see. Going to a stiffer gear might then create an issue at the gear plate. Fixing a gear plate is much more difficult then bending a gear straight. IMO the correct fix would be a fiberglass gear. These can be made up in just a few hours and for less investment then a replacement stock gear. If there is interest I can descried the process. That being said, after watching the video on the other site of a guy skipping his airplane 45 degrees into the grass during take off and then landing in the grass at 40 mph is a pretty good stress test of a landing gear in my eyes. After that flight I really did not see any noticeable amount of bending of the gear but had I done the same flight I don't think I would be complaining about the gear being bent.
11-04-2014, 10:35 AM
#289
I agreed I didn't see any bending on that video, yes the gear is doing its job of absorbing the energy on landing but like you said, it is not returning to its original position.
I have a feeling that you will have a chance to fly my Citabria one of these days.
I have a feeling that you will have a chance to fly my Citabria one of these days.
Last edited by CARS II; 11-04-2014 at 10:40 AM.
11-04-2014, 12:13 PM
#290
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I was told to oven heat at 330 for an hour and let cool slowly. What I did was at 350 for two hours, then every 30 min I would turn it down 20 until I was at 200 and just turn it off and leave it for the night. I know it is better than before, but I dont know if it is good enough. I was only able to get one flight and landing in before the wind came up and sent us all home.
I have a feeling that I will be looking for CF gear someday.
I have a feeling that I will be looking for CF gear someday.
11-04-2014, 06:48 PM
#292
Since I have no landing gear at the moment I decided to work on the DLE engine mods and the reinforcement of the fire wall box. for the DLE I got me and installed a Bowmans ring, what a difference not only on the compression but on the ring itself and I haven't even run it, I have a video that I will try to upload later, also I noticed an improvement on the reed valves.
Last edited by CARS II; 11-04-2014 at 07:05 PM.
11-05-2014, 10:55 AM
#299
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Putting a Barbie doll in the Citabria would not be cost effective, since it would entail purchasing a Ken doll, as well, to handle the crosswind takeoff and landings....
I used a H9 1/4 scale ( I think ) pilot figure, but, modified it a little. I do all of my servo connections through the windscreen after the wing is secured. I used the the painted balsa blocks as recommended, but, I mounted 4 magnets in the fiberglass base of the pilot and 4 magnets in the top of the balsa base. This allows me to remove the head/shoulders through the windscreen for more space while connecting the servos. Remember that the bottom of the wing will force the pilot's head down to a slightly lower-than-scale position ( the real Citabria has much more headroom since the wing does not carry through the fuselage structure), so check the pilot height with the wing on before you do any gluing.
I'll try to post some pix, when I figure out how...
I used a H9 1/4 scale ( I think ) pilot figure, but, modified it a little. I do all of my servo connections through the windscreen after the wing is secured. I used the the painted balsa blocks as recommended, but, I mounted 4 magnets in the fiberglass base of the pilot and 4 magnets in the top of the balsa base. This allows me to remove the head/shoulders through the windscreen for more space while connecting the servos. Remember that the bottom of the wing will force the pilot's head down to a slightly lower-than-scale position ( the real Citabria has much more headroom since the wing does not carry through the fuselage structure), so check the pilot height with the wing on before you do any gluing.
I'll try to post some pix, when I figure out how...
11-05-2014, 11:07 AM
#300
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Flew 3 flights today. Some great landings and touch and goes. My gear fix looks terrible, but works great. Now, if you have a condition on landing and it is tough, GO AROUND, don't try to save it. That's all I'm going to say, except I now have a winter project.