Citabria/Decathlon Brotherhood, ARF, kit build, electric, nitro and gas all welcome
12-14-2014, 12:37 PM
#78
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I have a question about the mods for the firewall. Has the firewall failed on these planes? Or is this just an opinion that the firewall area is too weak for gas engines. You would think that this design was flown on gas engines before it's release.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
12-14-2014, 01:02 PM
#79
On the other sites forums, Flyers reported failures in the firewall mounting box and the over all glue joints in this area. Just look at the mating and the glue in the joints. Many gaps and no epoxy. I have not flown my Citabria yet so I have had time to look over the airplane and correct know problems and others that I see. The GP ARF Citabria should be an excellent fly and should last a long time if these corrections are made, GP should replace the weak landing gear, TNT, is the best option for about $50.00.
Merry Christmas
Rich
Merry Christmas
Rich
12-14-2014, 01:11 PM
#80
We, the first ones that flew the Citabria discover that after landing hard a few times the the firewallbox was coming loose, not enough support and not enough glue at the joins.
Myself and others posted a how to remedy the situation on this site and two other sites to help informe as many Citabria owners as possible.
I suggest you go to those threads and review the pictures only so you can see what mods were done to the airplane, this will be the easiest way to look at all the changes without taking to much time reading everything.
Myself and others posted a how to remedy the situation on this site and two other sites to help informe as many Citabria owners as possible.
I suggest you go to those threads and review the pictures only so you can see what mods were done to the airplane, this will be the easiest way to look at all the changes without taking to much time reading everything.
Last edited by CARS II; 12-14-2014 at 01:16 PM.
12-14-2014, 02:51 PM
#82
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We, the first ones that flew the Citabria discover that after landing hard a few times the the firewallbox was coming loose, not enough support and not enough glue at the joins.
Myself and others posted a how to remedy the situation on this site and two other sites to help informe as many Citabria owners as possible.
I suggest you go to those threads and review the pictures only so you can see what mods were done to the airplane, this will be the easiest way to look at all the changes without taking to much time reading everything.
Myself and others posted a how to remedy the situation on this site and two other sites to help informe as many Citabria owners as possible.
I suggest you go to those threads and review the pictures only so you can see what mods were done to the airplane, this will be the easiest way to look at all the changes without taking to much time reading everything.
Thanks so much for the info.
12-14-2014, 05:47 PM
#83
I was testing the gear when I saw that the firewallbox was loose after only five flights ( this is after I double the main gear ) I did multiple hard landings with the new TNT gear and the engine firewall mods, the results were good and everything is holding in place, all this was done to make sure this airplane was going to hold in one piece during future flights.
After all the abuse I can tell any one here that my airplane is ok to fly at any time and at any event and it will stay togather if it happens to land hard because of my fault or because of the wx conditions.
Now that it has been tested and fix I can relax end enjoy my Citabria and put her to the test in the air instead of sweating it every time it goes up and praying it won't fall a part because a bad firewallbox designe.
Some of us put our airplanes to the test to get all the weakness out in the open so others that were building after us would benefit from those findings, that doesn't mean that we don't know how to manage a 14 lbs little airplane, after flying jets for over a dacade and then some havier equipment I should know, yes, very interesting that we risk our toys to benefit the community.
The how to fix these problems is there, we encurage everyone that has obtained one of this Citabrias to do them but it is up to each individual to make up their own mind to do them or not.
THANK YOU.
After all the abuse I can tell any one here that my airplane is ok to fly at any time and at any event and it will stay togather if it happens to land hard because of my fault or because of the wx conditions.
Now that it has been tested and fix I can relax end enjoy my Citabria and put her to the test in the air instead of sweating it every time it goes up and praying it won't fall a part because a bad firewallbox designe.
Some of us put our airplanes to the test to get all the weakness out in the open so others that were building after us would benefit from those findings, that doesn't mean that we don't know how to manage a 14 lbs little airplane, after flying jets for over a dacade and then some havier equipment I should know, yes, very interesting that we risk our toys to benefit the community.
The how to fix these problems is there, we encurage everyone that has obtained one of this Citabrias to do them but it is up to each individual to make up their own mind to do them or not.
THANK YOU.
Last edited by CARS II; 12-14-2014 at 10:55 PM.
12-15-2014, 06:53 AM
#86
Join Date: Dec 2001
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12-15-2014, 12:19 PM
#87
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Count me in as well. I have a GP Citabria with DLE 35 RA. Onboard electric starter. I have 4 flights on mine. I love it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCAlFll3tP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCAlFll3tP0
Last edited by drdoom; 12-15-2014 at 12:25 PM.
12-15-2014, 02:33 PM
#88
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Count me in as well. I have a GP Citabria with DLE 35 RA. Onboard electric starter. I have 4 flights on mine. I love it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCAlFll3tP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCAlFll3tP0
Lee
12-15-2014, 07:52 PM
#89
EJ this one is for you.
# 1 CARS II
# 2 EJWash1
# 3 JPC guy
# 4 Rafael123cc
# 5 franksbuddy
# 6 Mpizpilot
# 7 TomM
# 8 Johnny_Zero
# 9 mchandrayan
# 10 jwrich
# 11 Rotortrash3667
# 12 rcdfnut
# 13 staticxd00d
# 14 t6racer
# 15 tom_sandiego
# 16 loopdeeloop
# 17 rcten
# 18 Twin_Flyer
# 19 Red Rider
# 20 flyer35
# 21 drdoom
# 58 dasintex
# 1 CARS II
# 2 EJWash1
# 3 JPC guy
# 4 Rafael123cc
# 5 franksbuddy
# 6 Mpizpilot
# 7 TomM
# 8 Johnny_Zero
# 9 mchandrayan
# 10 jwrich
# 11 Rotortrash3667
# 12 rcdfnut
# 13 staticxd00d
# 14 t6racer
# 15 tom_sandiego
# 16 loopdeeloop
# 17 rcten
# 18 Twin_Flyer
# 19 Red Rider
# 20 flyer35
# 21 drdoom
# 58 dasintex
12-21-2014, 04:29 PM
#91
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dana, IN
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My engine box repairs, GP Citabria
EJ saw my post on RCG and asked me to also post it here when I finished repairs.
I caught the damage before it got too far, thanks to all the above posts I was keeping a watchful eye on conditions.
I was able to open the splits in the box extension and wick in some CA and push everything back tightly into place. I then re-glued the former/box joints and added a 1/4" aircraft ply re-enforcement along both sides from the firewall back along the fuel tank mount. I used 30 min. epoxy for the laminations and over the outside of all the box joints.
The sides hadn't cracked out, but the light ply they are made out of was delaminating where it was weak.
In the pictures I highlighted the areas that were coming apart before and after repairs.
I caught the damage before it got too far, thanks to all the above posts I was keeping a watchful eye on conditions.
I was able to open the splits in the box extension and wick in some CA and push everything back tightly into place. I then re-glued the former/box joints and added a 1/4" aircraft ply re-enforcement along both sides from the firewall back along the fuel tank mount. I used 30 min. epoxy for the laminations and over the outside of all the box joints.
The sides hadn't cracked out, but the light ply they are made out of was delaminating where it was weak.
In the pictures I highlighted the areas that were coming apart before and after repairs.
12-21-2014, 05:09 PM
#92
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Whitewolf thanks for your posting, great information.
When I start assembly this info will be used for the reinforcing planned to firewall and associated members. I am a long time builder
so I will elect to apply fiberglass cloth to both sides of firewall.
Baloon tires will be fitted in lieu of the hard foam wheels supplied.
Does anyone know if the aluminum legs are powder coated white? If so the temper in the aluminum is being lost during the baking process. My 2 cents......
When I start assembly this info will be used for the reinforcing planned to firewall and associated members. I am a long time builder
so I will elect to apply fiberglass cloth to both sides of firewall.
Baloon tires will be fitted in lieu of the hard foam wheels supplied.
Does anyone know if the aluminum legs are powder coated white? If so the temper in the aluminum is being lost during the baking process. My 2 cents......
12-21-2014, 05:30 PM
#93
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Hey Wolf.....really good mods. You have done almost what i have decided to do. I did some strengthening but not enough to my liking. I have been tied up with some computer repairs and haven't worked on the Citabria lately. I hope to return to work on the airplane this week. I will post more photos of what i have decided to do.........
12-21-2014, 08:31 PM
#94
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thanks for the replies!
Just some food for thought;
I didn't spend the time adding other material to the lower area on the front of the former. The weak point seems to be mainly the lack of support for the upper firewall. Glassing the entire front will help spread the load some, but the former itself isn't very strong and is quite flexible. An aluminum plate bolted and glued to the box sides going back or a ply/fiberglass sandwich would be stronger than ply alone. Using the composite wood/glass a thinner piece of ply would work very well. I would still use the aircraft grade plywood instead of light ply for the higher veneer count, even 1/8" AC ply has 5 laminations vs the 3 of light ply. Since the inner lamination extends beyond the former an additional lamination could also be applied to the outside of the motor box and bolted through to the inside and pinned to the engine firewall to really transfer the load bearing forces without adding a bunch of weight. Careful balancing of prop and spinner will help insure all the mods will stand the test of time.
I chose the 1/4" ply and followed the existing contour because of the throttle linkage I already had set up.
Since I haven't had any landing gear failure to date I tend to feel the motor box failures are due to a weak point in the design and not a result of hard landings, though a hard landing whether it's on stock gear or aftermarket such as TNT would compound the stress on the weak area.
I am also looking at either making my own or modifying a CF gear I already have to replace the stock aluminum gear. So far my gear hasn't suffered any obvious damage, a matter of time I'm sure.
Just some food for thought;
I didn't spend the time adding other material to the lower area on the front of the former. The weak point seems to be mainly the lack of support for the upper firewall. Glassing the entire front will help spread the load some, but the former itself isn't very strong and is quite flexible. An aluminum plate bolted and glued to the box sides going back or a ply/fiberglass sandwich would be stronger than ply alone. Using the composite wood/glass a thinner piece of ply would work very well. I would still use the aircraft grade plywood instead of light ply for the higher veneer count, even 1/8" AC ply has 5 laminations vs the 3 of light ply. Since the inner lamination extends beyond the former an additional lamination could also be applied to the outside of the motor box and bolted through to the inside and pinned to the engine firewall to really transfer the load bearing forces without adding a bunch of weight. Careful balancing of prop and spinner will help insure all the mods will stand the test of time.
I chose the 1/4" ply and followed the existing contour because of the throttle linkage I already had set up.
Since I haven't had any landing gear failure to date I tend to feel the motor box failures are due to a weak point in the design and not a result of hard landings, though a hard landing whether it's on stock gear or aftermarket such as TNT would compound the stress on the weak area.
I am also looking at either making my own or modifying a CF gear I already have to replace the stock aluminum gear. So far my gear hasn't suffered any obvious damage, a matter of time I'm sure.
Last edited by whitewolf45; 12-21-2014 at 08:33 PM. Reason: extra erronious sentece attached.
12-22-2014, 12:05 AM
#95
Nice work whitewolf45, if you need more info on the Citabria here are two threads that my help on the mods.
Safe flying
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2140905
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gian...-arf-85-a.html
Safe flying
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2140905
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gian...-arf-85-a.html
Last edited by CARS II; 12-22-2014 at 12:15 AM.
12-31-2014, 01:00 PM
#99
# 1 CARS II
# 2 EJWash1
# 3 JPC guy
# 4 Rafael123cc
# 5 franksbuddy
# 6 Mpizpilot
# 7 TomM
# 8 Johnny_Zero
# 9 mchandrayan
# 10 jwrich
# 11 Rotortrash3667
# 12 rcdfnut
# 13 staticxd00d
# 14 t6racer
# 15 tom_sandiego
# 16 loopdeeloop
# 17 rcten
# 18 Twin_Flyer
# 19 Red Rider
# 20 flyer35
# 21 drdoom
# 22 iampilot2
# 58 dasintex
Welcome to the gang
Got any pictures?
Happy landings
# 2 EJWash1
# 3 JPC guy
# 4 Rafael123cc
# 5 franksbuddy
# 6 Mpizpilot
# 7 TomM
# 8 Johnny_Zero
# 9 mchandrayan
# 10 jwrich
# 11 Rotortrash3667
# 12 rcdfnut
# 13 staticxd00d
# 14 t6racer
# 15 tom_sandiego
# 16 loopdeeloop
# 17 rcten
# 18 Twin_Flyer
# 19 Red Rider
# 20 flyer35
# 21 drdoom
# 22 iampilot2
# 58 dasintex
Welcome to the gang
Got any pictures?
Happy landings
12-31-2014, 01:03 PM
#100
Whitewolf thanks for your posting, great information.
When I start assembly this info will be used for the reinforcing planned to firewall and associated members. I am a long time builder
so I will elect to apply fiberglass cloth to both sides of firewall.
Baloon tires will be fitted in lieu of the hard foam wheels supplied.
Does anyone know if the aluminum legs are powder coated white? If so the temper in the aluminum is being lost during the baking process. My 2 cents......
When I start assembly this info will be used for the reinforcing planned to firewall and associated members. I am a long time builder
so I will elect to apply fiberglass cloth to both sides of firewall.
Baloon tires will be fitted in lieu of the hard foam wheels supplied.
Does anyone know if the aluminum legs are powder coated white? If so the temper in the aluminum is being lost during the baking process. My 2 cents......
The main gear is painted.
