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top flite p-51 giant scale build

Old 03-17-2007, 11:09 AM
  #326  
Snaer810
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Morning All,

Doublebs Sorry to hear about your weather..........[]

Not sure how much you got into teh DL50 site last night, but I thought I would pass this on. They had one fella that put his engine on a stand and hard mounted it to the stand........From what I gather not a good thing to do.....The engine broke off the mounts came flying off the stand and hit him.....[&o] it injured him pretty good I guess....but luckly he is doing good.....just some good size cuts etc....Could have been worse.

They were saying never hard mount a gas engine to a stand....it has no give.....make sure to use a soft mount!!..Seemed like good advise.....I would not have know that. There weer some pic on the DL site.

Well got some pics of the bottom sheeting completed.....thought I would share them. Also included some close-ups of how that gorrilla glue works. WOW....it really expands nicely into the structure for a good bond. Pretty pleased so far.

GR8LAND....nice job on the glass work. Is this a TF kit....Like Doublebs was saying....where is the Horz. Stab???....
Give us some info on what was used if you don't mind.....Cloth Wgt., Resin used....How did you apply it...etc.....Want to know all about it. Also was wondering what kind of a weight difference there might be between glassing/painting and appling the plastic covering...monokot...etc.? What kind of finish will you be appling? Auto panit...epoxy???

Well have to get going..Everyone have a great day!


Mike
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Old 03-17-2007, 05:23 PM
  #327  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

the maiden went pretty well just had to put 2 clicks of left aileron, and 3 clicks of up. the only thing i did not like about it was the stall speed. for mine its not as low as you would expext from a 3D plane. and tring to do a knife edge it wants to drop out at full speed. and full deflection of the rudder. i might have it set up a little touchy though.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:13 PM
  #328  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hi Snaer810!
Yes this is a top flight kit only I got the rtc kit as it comes with a full cowl and and ready to cover or glass. As I said before this is my first glass job and I am using 3/4 oz on the fuse and will be using 1/2 oz for the wing and stab and using Z-poxy. I just brush on the resin and lay the cloth and then brush it out smooth, let dry and sand it smooth. I am not sure what it will do as far as weight diff?.......... But when I paint this stang it should look pretty good!
OK it's time for me to call it a day, Back again with more results.

All have a great time[>:]
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:17 PM
  #329  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Well, I had no luck in finding a suitable stock muffler for my Moki 45. Had to pay the penalty, and make my own. And I am definetively NOT a qualified sheet-metal worker!

I ended up with a butt ugly muffler, but to my comfort, it's 100% hidden under the cowl.

Now, back to balsa and ply...
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:01 PM
  #330  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hey Jan,

Well it might not be the prettiest thing I ever saw..... But its sure better than having it stick out all over the place outside the cowl. Did you have to put any baffles in it? Looks like it should work!!

I sure am behind you guys on the building curve though....just finishing up the wing and trying to figure out where I want to mount the UP2 valve and retract servo in the wing. Figure it will have to go somewhere in the center tray.

Been looking at different glassing techniques on RCSCALEBUILDER. Looks like its really not that difficult. Have you had any experience with glassing? Just wonder what I'm in for!!........[8D]

Well back to the drawing board.

Mike
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:43 PM
  #331  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build


Excellent . I'm in Whistler for Spring break. The more snow, the happier I am...

ORIGINAL: doublebs

It SNOWED last night and today it's raining!!!!![&o] . and to think that just yesterday i was out in my yard playin' with the dog , watching the the new grass grow and wondering if it was too early to wheel the barbeque out , uncovering her , and maybe even givin' her a spring cleaning..... ahhh yes , mother nature can sometimes be a real b**ch ! it's suppose to pour all weekend so maybe i'll work on the plane a bit .

dragon , glad to hear about the job man thats great !!!! airframe !! very cool D , thats wicked . so tell us more about the maiden. any surprises? likes or dislikes of the funtana . i almost bought one last season but instead bought a sig sundancer . love to know what you thought of her . at least your early impressions .

mike , thanks for the dl 50 forum . after i'm done here i'm going to check it out . you too dragon , thanks for the advice on breaking in my da both of you have been very helpful .

i have also read about what you guys are saying with the break-in in some forums last night . like you say, it seems to be a personal preference . somehow it goes against my instinctive need to test , then test some more . i think i might mix up a gallon of fuel , start it up ,and run a tank through it . if anything just to hear it . then, the rest i'll do as i practice taxi-ing and getting use to the ground handling characteristics . you're right , i didn't break in my weed wacker!! however i didn't spend $3500 + on it either !!! LOL .

gr8 , good to hear from you. that fuse looks nice . where is the horizontal stab ? am i missing something here? is that a tf kit? if you've got any good tips you'd like to share on glassing don't be shy . this will be my fist time as well so please let us know how its going .


later fellas ,

b
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:44 AM
  #332  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Well,

I was planning to make 3 chambers in the muffler, but my lack of soldering skills reduced it to 2 chambers. The enclosed pics shows the 2 chambers and the exhaust pipes inside the muffler.

I have not but positive experience from glassing my airplanes. It's a bit of work, but done correct it will give you a light and strong result. I have previously just added epoxy on the surface, added the cloth, and then added some more epoxy if needed. It is ok to fill all the cloth, before removing the excess epoxy. When the cloth is soked in epoxy, I use a creditcard or similar to whipe off excess epoxy. It is important to take off as much epoxy as possible, this will keep the weight down. I don't think you can take off to much.

I know some people thin out the epoxy with methylated alcohol or aceton, which makes it possible to apply with a brush. But, I was warnede against this method, as the thinner may reduce the quality of the epoxy when cured.

On the Mustang, I will try another tip I've got. I'll try to gently heat the epoxy, which should give the same result as thinning, but with no damage to the final result.

Cheers
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:13 AM
  #333  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

I like the muffler Jan. well im finally back to work bought a us 41 engine instead of da50. just couldnt bring myself to turn loose of the money.

I need help with main wheels i bought some but they are to wide for gear doors to close. seems like they cant be more than 1 1/2" wide maybe alittle less. I installed the tail wheel retract yesterday and installed rod guide tubes. i will post picks when camera is charged. I also got the outer gear doors mounted but could not get the inner plastic to clear so left them off.

Oh i also bought a hangar 9 p51 trainer yesterday decided now would be a good time to learn to fly LoL.

Tom
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:28 PM
  #334  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hi, What a great looking model you have built, it has spurred me on to build my own kit of this model now but as I shall be using a Zenoah 62 in mine I was wondering what sort of decibels you are getting with your Keleo custom muffler? are they baffled at all. Good luck with flying your bird.
John
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:04 AM
  #335  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

lol tom
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:34 AM
  #336  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

ok doublebs help!!!! i also ended up 1/4 inch off on wing tip to tail. pulled back out wing plans remeasured everything seems ok on wings . so i layed fuse back on top of plans and it lines up also. so i measured frt of fuse to frt tips of wings measurement is right on there so it has to be the tail but it lines up on the plans. think i might split the diff and take the 1/8in out frt and rear but i can see the line looks crooked at the landing gear doors. i dont know!!!!!!!!! i saw when you built the jig but you said it came back. i really dont see how this could affect a plane this size. im not drilling wing bolt plate hole till i figure it out though.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:53 AM
  #337  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hi doubledebs can you tell me if the Keleo custom muffler you have fitted on the Mustang is very quiet and do they fit any baffles in them.
Thanks
John
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:22 PM
  #338  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Evening Tomtope,

Not sure where Doublebs is tonight, but here are a few things to check.

Make sure and mark the center of the wing and the centerline of the fusealage. Make sure it is the fuse centerline and not the engine centerline.

Set the wing in the saddle aligning both centerlines and tape the wing in place.

When measuring I usually will measure from a good 90 degree corner. I this case it would be the outside 90 degree corner of the alieron or the inside 90 degree corner which ever you perfer. I don't usually use the outside of the wing tip, its not as acurate.

If the wing is cantered even a few degrees this can mean an 1/8" to 1/4" difference at the wing tip.

My personal preference on tolerances is no more the 1/8" to 3/16.

Let us know what you come up with and based on the report we'll see if we can come up with some ideas to correct the problem.


Later all,

Mike
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:32 PM
  #339  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

hello fellas!!
man-o-man i wish it would stop raining!!!!!!! wow ther have been a few posts scince i was on last .

John , i don't know if the pipes are baffled or not and as this is my first and only gasser so far i really don't have anything to compare it to as fer as the decibal level is concerned . i DID however start her up last wekend on the stand i made and let me tell you it sounds great . is she loud ? ya i think so .

tom , sorry to hear about your wing problems . cripes i just about had a jammer when i discovered the same . as you have i also layed the fuse over the plans however mine was off a bit . just like the manual says i used string and tape to measure my wing . i know that you've read the thread so i won't re-hash what i had to do , lucky you haven't drilled the wing bolt holes yet ! mikes info is bang on !! take your measurement from the tail to the wing where the seam for the tips are . if you are going to the tips the may be slightly different from eachother. let us know what you come up with .

so as i said i ran my da last weekend and will post some picks of the stand as well as a oops story later tonight .

berrick.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:50 PM
  #340  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

snaer810 and doublebs, i have redrawn center lines and remeasured frt and rear of 90 deg angle at alerons i am off 3/16.
the right wing from tail to 90deg mark is 3/16 shorter than left wing. but right wing when measured to end of wing panel not tip is 1/16 shorter than left hope i said that were you understand. can i just split the 3/16 and take half at frt and half at rear?

on a better note here are pictures of gear doors
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Old 03-24-2007, 12:15 AM
  #341  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

hi tom . splitting the difference is exactly what i would do . 3/16 really is nothing for a plane of this size IMO . still love the look of the gear doors . i am waiting for hinge pockets however if it rains all weekend like its supose to i'm gonna get on it . could you tell me if your outer door scaled out ok . it seems to me on mine the hinge point is quite a ways past the strut . with wheels down the door leans down and inward to the hub , but scale it looks like it should be hinged just past it so the door runs more parallel with the strut ??? what did you do ? pics with gear down??

thanks,
berrick.
keep us informed on your wing
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:01 AM
  #342  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Morning TomTope. Hey Berrick.

Sorry to hear all about your rain out there.....doing the same in Michigan.........YUCK...[&o]

Tom in reference to your wing mounting, I agree with Berrick, 3/16" is not that bad.....As in my previous post if my measurements are within the 1/8" to 3/16" I will do just what your talking about and split the small difference, your not talking that much to where it will make any difference. So if you split that even a 1/16" either end....it will not be noticeable at all.

Usually if I can build a wing and Fuse structure within an 1/8" I am a HAPPY CAMPER.........


Berrick, Not exactly sure what you addressing on your gear doors.....I always do better with pictures....LOL...
Are you talking about the door hinge that goes on the strut or the hinge point at the wing? I you have a pic send it along, lets see what we have going on.

Well back to building.......I finally got my replacement parts for the Stab and I have just about competed that segment. Looking forward to starting the Fuse soon.

I have a question.....Been looking at glssing this P51...My First......Been gathering all the info....Have some great information if anyone is interested. {Here the Q.... Just how are you finishing the rudder being that it is an open structure?? If everything else is glassed on the sheeted structure, what or how would you finish the rudder so you can apply the same finish?

SCRATCHING HEAD!!!!.................[sm=50_50.gif]

Well talk to you guys later.


Mike
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:57 AM
  #343  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

mike and berrick thank you that makes me feel better i will split the diff.
as far as gear doors here are more pictures. ok i understand about not looking scale but if you read the directions from wayne he says that on static display need to compress the strut spring. and also if you move them forward you will have to cut some off end w/hinge.
i played with this quite a bit and did not look right any other way if you cut off and move it toward inner door then it will be shorter and not reach even as far as it does now toward wheel axle. play with it maybe you will see something that i didnt. but keep in mind that every 1/8" toward inner door you must cut off rear to make it line up with inner, then it will also be shorter and surface is the same.
hard to explain what i mean but play with it first i almost cut mine then i saw it by setting it in the slot where it would sit and closing it on that angle and doors are too short already. the true problem is inner gear doors need to be moved toward center of wing that would take care of it but would have to hinge them on inside of rib and cut rib but that is an alternative if someone hasnt cut out doors yet.


thanks again tom
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:03 PM
  #344  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

hi tom , mike ,
tom's pic shows exactly what i was talking about . ok tom , i got you .thanks for the pic , it made things much clearer on my end .it is the hinge location i was getting at and your pic shows pretty much my concern. i will take some shots of it today and post .

mike , i am going to glass this plane as well as flight metal . the glassing process is super easy . my flyin partner has glassed 2 planes , first was his dc-3 and now his fu-4 corsair . what exactly are yor concerns? i will post pics of his planes tonight. last night i was at his place helping to mix paint to get his colours just right . it took a long time, maybe 2 hours to find the dark blue he liked.

as far as the rudder you don't glass it . i am going to use cloth and stixit . i will find out from trevor exactly the brand he used , it looks real good and is again real easy to apply .

ok , so here is my oops story ....

as i mentioned before , last weekend i started up the da for the first time .so there i was , removing the engine from the fuse and starting to build a stand to mount it to . ok no problem . don't forget berrick i said to myself to tighten up all these mounting bolts as they were just hand tight for mocking up on fuse .
just then a friend of mine called to see if i wanted to go fly our heli's .[ he is an engineer for a local heli outfit] but i told him what i was about to do and he decided to come over , engines are cool!!!
ok now i feel some pressure to gitty-up cause sam's on his way to see this thing run . when he gets here i'm still far from ready , ok not that far but i'm pretty anal and methodical in my approach to everything , hence where i'm at in the build and i started last augest. lol
mount throttle servo - check
mount fuel tank and plumb - check
mount ingnition modual and bat. - check
" wow !!" sam says " i'm gonna call kevin , he 's gonna want to see this " [fellow rc nut and overall great guy] .
mount control bat and reciever - check
hey who's that? oh cool it's my brother stoppin over for a visit . now there's a crowd gathering and i did say this is my first gasser right? gettin the picture here?
i'm nervous about firing this puppy and yet more people start to gather . my neighbour comes over , my tennent comes down , heck even my sister ,her 5 week old and partner and her friend with her 1 year old just happen to decide at this moment on this day to walk over for a visit!!! oh man real party here and everyone wants to see this thing run now !!
" where's the fuel? " sam asks .
" it's over there in the jerry can ." i said.
"whats the ratio your gonna use? "
"32:1" i reply " the oil is over there somewhere"
"how much do i put in ?" he asked
ok , now at this point i should of slowed things down a bit and thought just a little about what i was about to say. at that particular moment i recall the old jigger who sold me the oil [which was NOT easy to find ] sayin "oh ya 32:1 is 1 container per gallon" so i says to sammy boy " oh ya 32:1 is 1 container per gallon and since thats 1 1/4 gallons we need 1 1/4 containers " this would later prove to be very wrong!!
so sam mixes the fuel, kevin and i are setting the servo/radio up and finish hooking up the throttle , neighbour is beeking off about lord knows what as he is half in the bag , if you know what i mean . and my brother busts out beers and offers them up . now i don't drink and thankfully kevin and sam both took a pass and now we're gassin up the tank !!
we do a final check and flip for who run radio and who's gonna turn her over.

i get radio , sam gets to flip . with choke on she only took 5 - 10 tries before she burped. no choke.... flip.flip.........flip vrooooommm!!!
yahoo!!!! beers spills. mothers and babies run for their lives ,, this motor sounds great!! loud ! but great !


oops # 1 : "hey berrick , does it seem like it's rattleing around alot?"
" i dunno...is this what they do? " - first gasser remember
shut down only to discover in my haste to get going forgot to TIGHTEN down motor mounts ..... i only had her mocked up right .

oops # 2 : "hey berrick , isn't that alot of oil coming out of your exhaust and why is it leaking so much between cylinder head and pipe? " i only had her mocked up right? turns out the next day i found the exhaust gasket , on my bench!!

oops # 3 : " hey berrick ,does that smell funny to you?"
" what smell? " i reply , standing in the prop wash with my radio .
"your exhaust , dude, can't you smell that?" i'm asked by drunkin' neighbour .
" no i have too much wind in my face " i say

we bust out the tach and i'm only gettin 6200 out of her. hhmmmmmmmmmm....it's new , i decide , she'll loosen up.
well we ran about 10 oz's through her before we decided to call it a day . it was getting late and we had been at it for about 4 hrs.
well that was fun , we shut her down and slowly after a bit , friends left .

so the next day i really start going over the motor with a fine tooth comb.
i install the exhaust gasket . there that's got her. man there sure seems to be alot of oil kicking around . the pipes are covered in it. i bust out the da manual ' 1 7/8 turns out is a good starting point for high speed needle ' . so i check it out . alls well . hhhhmmmm............sniff the fuel ....smells really oily... decide to READ THE OIL CONTAINER for myself . oops! 32 : 1 is 1 container to 7.36 litres...........DOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! after some quick calculations i figured that the motor was running at a 12 or 13 : 1 ratio.[>:][:@][:@][:@] thats not good.
now i have re-mixed the fuel, cleaned out the tank and lines and am waiting for a break in the rain to take her out and fire her up !!!

now that's fun!!!
moral of this story... i dunno maybe something like...' check everthing twice bla bla bla. 'don't be rushed by your buddies bla bla bla, it's allfun till someone looses an eye bla bla bla..............

i will post some pics of my stand and trevor's corsair later.
hope you liked my long winded story and i'll talk to you soon

berrick [still smil'in]
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Old 03-24-2007, 05:32 PM
  #345  
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hi Snaer!
There are a few options for the rudder, One being stitts covering which I have used before that is an iron on fabric that is then covered with dope and then you can apply your finish of choice. Sig Koverall is another and tower sells this one.
Just a tad bit of info for you to check out.
Talk to you later
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:26 PM
  #346  
Snaer810
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hey Berrick........Hey Gr8Land.....

That is a great story Berrick......You had me chuckling the whole time..... Been there and done that!!! Of course that was on my Super Tigre 91. that I goofed up on.,,,not checking mounting hardware...etc.

Gr8Land...thanks for the info....I kind of figured that maybe Koverall was being used. I covered the Sig Citabria I have in the Koverall and it turned out great. Nice stuff to work with too. The finish came out looking great, but them I kind of wanted that fabric look.

I just wasn't sure how that was going to look or match up on the glass finish with the rest of the aircraft. I suspect you can fill the fabric a little more so you don't get that scale fabric look that I wanted on the Citabria.

Berrick have you ever used the Flite Metal before?
I have read some various articles on different scale sites and it sounds like pretty neat stuff. The aircraft I wanted to finish it after is the Shangri-La Scheme. Of course it has all that nice brite aluminum finsh and I don't think I can get that out of any paint color. Nice thing with the Flite Metal is you can have it brite or dull it down with some scuffing. It doesn't look that difficult but darn time consuming. I guess from what I have read too is that you don't need to flow coat any of the structure either after the initial glassing...just sand smooth and lay out your panel lines...etc and apply the various Flite Metal panels. Not sure I understand the overlapping seams etc. yet...got some more reading to do.

They sure are pretty when their done.

I'm real interested to see your gear door layout and the problem your discribing.

Well you folks have a Good Weekend. Have to work at 5am....Later all

Mike
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:32 AM
  #347  
doublebs
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

thanks mike , it was pretty funny. so i went over to trev's and yes he used coverall by sig. also stix-it by sig . then prepped it with polybrush to seal it for paint . i think it looks good . he painted more of his corsair tonight and will post some pics. his plane is looking real good . here are pics of some of his coverall work and the painting process.

i have never used f.m. before but like yourself i keep reading all that i can about it . looks great and actually from what i've read on their homepage is that it applies quicker than say a heat shrink type covering .
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Old 03-25-2007, 03:10 PM
  #348  
Jan_Petter
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Nice paint job there doublebs!

A touch of spring here today, and I was able to have my first building session on my terrace this year.

It's a dirty job, but no way around, ... I'm talking about the hinging. [&:]

But after quite a few hours in the sun, all 26 hinges came in place. Next up is mounting the servos in the wing, and then what I have putt off as far as possible, namely the main gear doors.[]

And then I guess a couple of more days with the sandpaper, before I can start glassing and flitemetalling...

BTW, I'm considering the good old nylon and dope for the tail feathers.

Soon to say I own a Mustang
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:00 AM
  #349  
Snaer810
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Looking Good Jan,


Real quick question on the elevators. When you built up your elevator an then test fit it to the Stab was there a slight difference between the stab trailing edge and the elevator leading edge. Were the elevators slightly thicker at the leading edge than the stab trailing edge?

For some reason the my stab did not have the same thickness at the trailing edge as the elevator leading edge. (Might be off by as much as 1/32" on each side. Measured everything and sure enough the Stab was not the same thickness on the trailing edge as depicted on the cross section on the plan sheets......[]

I hate when somthing like this goes haywire.....I'm like alot of you fellas.....I get very maticulous about my building.
Not sure what happened, but somwhow I guess I did not contour the ribs and trailing edge quite to spec. I'm thinking it is not that much so I'll probably just sand the elevators down to match the stab.

Let me know if anyone else ran inot this.............Thanks All!!

back to work.......work work work!!!.......[8D]

Mike
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:57 PM
  #350  
Jan_Petter
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Default RE: top flite p-51 giant scale build

Hi Mike,

The stab and elevators are the same thickness on my stang. Should be easy to fix with a sanding bar. It's so much sanding on this model anyway, so a stroke or two extra won't hurt to much I guess

But I agree, it's annoying when it doesn't ad up...
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