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Buiding the 33% Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

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Old 06-03-2007, 11:05 AM
  #151
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau


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ORIGINAL: BigBoy99

Hi all together,

@Steve
I´m so glad, to have a big room to built my waco, no problem to fit the wings and the fuselage together on my
building-board. If you built in your garage, isn´t it cold in winter? Edit: oh, sorry, you lucky guy are living in California
What about your arm, are you well and healthy?
Today I have the problem, from the lower wing the right half is a little bit warped, because I put it from the building-board,
to make planking the nose area. After this, I realized, something is wrong, the front wing-end is 1/3 inch higher, than the rear wing-end.
I fixed it on the board under tension and sprayed the nose with water, I think, my first prognosis is, it works.
I have to wait, until it gets dry.

@RCWalker

I began with both wings, the upper is nearly ready and the lower is in progress.
When I start to built the fuselage, you will see photos above.

@ Redcesar

What about your maiden, some news?



Regards

Bernie
To Bernie and all my vriends in Europe. My arm is coming along very well. I have two more operations needed to make the outer skin look better ( plastic sugury) still some numbness in my right hand but it might get better might not. Wish I could visit you all and experiance you countries. Have lots of respect for you guys. I have learned so much from all of you. How luckey I am to have you all as vriends.


[ul][*] [*] [*]
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:57 PM
  #152
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi all,

The waco is, minus a few litle things ready for maiden but last week i get my hands on a Piper Pawnee Flying ready. So I am a litle bit busy with the Pawnee.
Yesterday I Flew it for the first time and all wend right.

After i finished the litle things on the Waco I go check the engine and after 1 or 2 Ltr fuel on the ground for testing i wait for a good day and go for the Maiden.

Cybertom,

The Waco weight 18,5 Kg and that is with a MVVS 116 with canisters (total weight 4 kG) in the fuse. I dont no the weight of the Genesis Waco.

Bernie,

Maybe you can correct a litle rotation in your wing (1 cm) with the flying wires and N struts.
But as you say, with water and under tension is a good solution to fix it.
After you spray it with water you can heat it with a heat gun that weakens the fibers in the wood a bit.

Cesar.
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:05 PM
  #153
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Everyone,

Thanks for the fast replies. 18.5Kg converts over to 40.8lbs and the other weighs in at 47lbs. So we are certainly well below 50lbs even with a RCS 215 radial.

RCS 215 radial vs. RCS150 radial
Do you find that the RCS 215 radial engine overpowers this size aircraft? I have seen a Balsa USA Stearman that weighs 50lbs. jump off the ground like a jack rabbit with the 215. Normal flying was around 1/4th throttle. I noticed that RCS now has the 150 which might be a better match. Potentially it can shave off another 2lbs of weight and will run at a higher rpm which seems to smooth those engines out. Your thoughts...

RCS 215
32x12 prop at 5000rpm=74lbs of static thrust
Weight=12.2lbs

RCS 150
32x12 prop at 4700rpm=50.64lbs of static thrust
Weight=9.8lbs
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:29 PM
  #154
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

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ORIGINAL: Cybertom

Everyone,

Thanks for the fast replies. 18.5Kg converts over to 40.8lbs and the other weighs in at 47lbs. So we are certainly well below 50lbs even with a RCS 215 radial.

RCS 215 radial vs. RCS150 radial
Do you find that the RCS 215 radial engine overpowers this size aircraft? I have seen a Balsa USA Stearman that weighs 50lbs. jump off the ground like a jack rabbit with the 215. Normal flying was around 1/4th throttle. I noticed that RCS now has the 150 which might be a better match. Potentially it can shave off another 2lbs of weight and will run at a higher rpm which seems to smooth those engines out. Your thoughts...

RCS 215
32x12 prop at 5000rpm=74lbs of static thrust
Weight=12.2lbs

RCS 150
32x12 prop at 4700rpm=50.64lbs of static thrust
Weight=9.8lbs
Well you may be right on engine selction. It seems that the 150 has enough power at full R.P.M. But think about this...... do you want to run that engine at near full speed all the time?? it will run O.K. but it also will wear out much faster running at that R.P.M. The 215 on my Waco is at full power during take of and doing loops, other than that I run it at about 2000-2500 more like a full scale motor and a whole lot easier on the engine itself. Remember these are 4 strokes.they make torque at a lot less R.P.M. than a 2 stroke I run a 32-14 on mine but I also have used a 32-8 32-10 32-12 all seem to get this bird off the ground O.K. I just like the way my 215 runs on the 32-14 as it does put a bit more load on the engine and it seems to run smoother not that it runs rough at any R.P.M. these radials are just plain good running engines and that sound is just what a round engine plain needs.
Just my thoughts.

One after thought........ you will save about 2 pounds useing the 150 over the 215 but you will loose almost 50% of thrust vs the 215
much better to have way to much then just enough........gives you a margine of safty in tight situations don't you think?
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:08 PM
  #155
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

SoCal Sal,

If the static thrust of the engine is more than the weight of the aircraft then conceivably you could prop hang this airplane with the 150. Now to my way of thinking any airplane that I could prop hang had what I felt was lots of power. I'm guessing that typical biplane putzing around would be around 1/3rd throttle. The only time I could see using full power is possibly on takeoff or during aerobatic loops where I needed to climb straight up, other than that I don't see myself running the 150 anywhere near full throttle.

I have heard many of the RCS215 run on video and in person and they all seem to have a distinct miss during the transition from idle to higher rpm. The owners tell me they think its caused by the timing of the electronic ignition. Seems to make sense to me. They idle great, the high end is great, but the transition is rough. So far I have only heard 1-RCS 215 on a test stand that seemed to not exhibit the problem. It could be to that a lots of guys aren't maintaining their engines like they should. But more often than not it's what I have heard.

If you could make a short video of your plan flying and post it here for all of us to enjoy that would be great. I would prefer to hope that the engine I buy will run smoothly. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go.

Thanks for all of your feedback and contributions to this thread. The information is very valuable to guys like me who are looking to make the jump to a 33% Bipe.

This is the video of the RCS 215 from RC Showcase. It idles beautifully, shows poor transition, but a great top end. This is typical of what I have seen with one exception.
[link=http://www.rcshowcase.com/images/engines/rcs/rcsradial.wmv]RCS 215 Radial Engine Video[/link]

This is a video of a 1/3rd scale Stearman. Again the engine to my ear sounds pretty choppy:
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hntXAon3Ins]1/3rd Scale Stearman w/RCS215 Radial Engine Video[/link]

Just for comparison, this is my Robart R780. It's not a gasser but it runs the way I expect a radial to run:
[link=http://www.cmac.org/video/2004/2004_11_28_stearman/BigPlaneFly.wmv]1/4th Stearman w/R780 Radial Engine Video[/link]
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:04 PM
  #156
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau


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ORIGINAL: Cybertom

SoCal Sal,

If the static thrust of the engine is more than the weight of the aircraft then conceivably you could prop hang this airplane with the 150. Now to my way of thinking any airplane that I could prop hang had what I felt was lots of power. I'm guessing that typical biplane putzing around would be around 1/3rd throttle. The only time I could see using full power is possibly on takeoff or during aerobatic loops where I needed to climb straight up, other than that I don't see myself running the 150 anywhere near full throttle.

I have heard many of the RCS215 run on video and in person and they all seem to have a distinct miss during the transition from idle to higher rpm. The owners tell me they think its caused by the timing of the electronic ignition. Seems to make sense to me. They idle great, the high end is great, but the transition is rough. So far I have only heard 1-RCS 215 on a test stand that seemed to not exhibit the problem. It could be to that a lots of guys aren't maintaining their engines like they should. But more often than not it's what I have heard.

If you could make a short video of your plan flying and post it here for all of us to enjoy that would be great. I would prefer to hope that the engine I buy will run smoothly. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go.

Thanks for all of your feedback and contributions to this thread. The information is very valuable to guys like me who are looking to make the jump to a 33% Bipe.

This is the video of the RCS 215 from RC Showcase. It idles beautifully, shows poor transition, but a great top end. This is typical of what I have seen with one exception.
[link=http://www.rcshowcase.com/images/engines/rcs/rcsradial.wmv]RCS 215 Radial Engine Video[/link]
I know what you are talking about in the miss or roughness of the engine. Mine did the same thing till I learned how to adjust the carb. First thing is make sure the engine is warmed up very well. The reason for this is that as heat builds up in the crank case it effects the fuel air mixture as it heats it up. The next thing to remember is that it takes about 4 gallons of fuel through the engine in order for it to even get close to breaking in. Then you have to adjust the high low needles so very little. They are amoung the most sensitive needles I have ever messed with maybe 1/32-1/64 of a turn will effect the idel or top end. My 215 is running very well, start it and let it idel for about 3 minutes and off you go. I can let it idel for 5 or more minutes and then go full bore and it does not miss at all. It just takes a little time to get used to how to tune it. Youmust remember that you need to re-set the valves after about a gallon of gas as they will seat in during that time and then check them after every gallon for the first 4 gallons.

I have set up my friends 150 it is no different then the 215-250-400 they all require some getting used too and some running in. I also found out that if you can mess with the throttel curve on your transmitter it will help a great deal in the transitioning of the engine. Remember if the stick was a true 1/4 setting that the engine would be running about 12-1400 r.p.m. that is a good idel point. some people see the stick setting and think it is truley 25% of the movment of the carb plate it is not. I set my high end at about one half stick setting and it seems to work the best for me. The low end screw has the most effect on the carb.
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:16 PM
  #157
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

SoCalSal,

Sounds like a whole lot of guys out there could use a tutorial from you on how to properly maintain and adjust their RCS radial engine. It's really good to hear that it can run smoothly with the proper adjustments. I will feel more comfortable when it comes time to plunk down my money. Sad thing is this means 90% of the guys who own them don't know what you do.
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Old 06-05-2007, 02:49 AM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi Cesar,

Good to know that your Waco YMF is almost ready for maiden, wish you the best![sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I am doing the firewall now, but need to know what is the best way to make the firewall with 1.5 degree right thrust and 0-2 degree down thrust? either the firewall with required angle or keep the firewall straight and make the engine mount box with required angle accordingly? I am planning to use either Saito FA450R3 or G-62 Gaser.

Wallace J. Kao
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau


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ORIGINAL: RCWalker

Hi Cesar,

Good to know that your Waco YMF is almost ready for maiden, wish you the best![sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I am doing the firewall now, but need to know what is the best way to make the firewall with 1.5 degree right thrust and 0-2 degree down thrust? either the firewall with required angle or keep the firewall straight and make the engine mount box with required angle accordingly? I am planning to use either Saito FA450R3 or G-62 Gaser.

Wallace J. Kao
Wallace the correct way to get your off-sets is with the engine mounting box. It will cause you a lot of problems on down the line in construction if you build the firewall with the off-set in it.
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Old 06-05-2007, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi Wallace,

You can also use standoffs. With differend lengths you can produce de right down and side trust. But keep the firewall straight.

Cesar.
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Nice setup Cesar! what kind of tubes are you using around the exhaust ducting?
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau


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ORIGINAL: vasek

Nice setup Cesar! what kind of tubes are you using around the exhaust ducting?

Hi Vasek,

That are drawingcases which i have on the inside coated with thin epoxy resin for a litle bit heat resistant.

But the cannisters are 1 cm free off the wall so the air can flow through the pipes for cooling and the air can leave at the undersite of the fuse.
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Old 06-05-2007, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Thanks to SoCalSal and Cesar,

I will keep the firewall straight with 0-0 degree and use either standoffs for G-62 or engine mounting box for Saito FA450R3 once I decide which engine will be installed on the plane.

Thanks to both of you again!


Wallace J. Kao
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

here my Genesis 33% Waco, rcs 215cc, Bambula 32-10, 58 pounds .
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:09 AM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

To all Waco lovers.

You may want to see a 40% Waco being built at :http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5937713/tm.htm

Dany
www.genesis-rc.com
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Ok Dany the plane looks fabulous! but what i really want to know is did you match the plane color to the red jacket of your lovely GF or did she buy the jacket to match the color of your plane?

V.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Vasek!

Good question! I received so many replies about that "mix" and to be honest, we actually figured it out after the pictures where taken![sm=tongue_smile.gif]

Have fun!

Dany
www.genesis-rc.com
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:17 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hum !! Dany got the best of the World , nice looking wife, ans super scale Waco!!

Piper13
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Danny,

Hi, my name is Tom. I am a potential customer of yours. I requested and received a Team Genesis WACO DVD last year. I am an acquaintance of Bob Gonzalez who had his Team Genesis WACO in "Top Gun" this year. We spoke about buying your kit in the old "Flair Stearman" thread. I am impressed with both your kit and the Barth Modellbau kit. What improvements have you made to your updated 1/3rd scale WACO kit? What is the typical weight of the finished kit? Which RCS radial engine do you recommend?
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Old 06-10-2007, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi guys,

here a little report of building my Waco from Peter Barth:

The lower right wing is OK, the spraying with water was the right handling, now all is straight and planar.
The lower middle part is ready and the lower left half is done at 80 %.

The notch in front of the lower left wing is for the landing lights, right of this notch is the hatch for the mounting point
of the N-Struts and flying wires.

I´m glad, when I´m ready with the wings, I can not see any more ribs( ha ha)

Next week I will start with the fuselage

Regards

Bernie
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi all,

Can anyone help me on deciding what the best right thrust and down thrust angles are for Saito FA-450R3 engine on the 1/4 Scale Peter Barth's Waco YMF? I way planning to apply 1.5 degree right thrust and 0 degree for down thrust, but not sure if this is enough for such engine.

Bernie,

Your Waco is really looking good, can not wait to see pictures of fuselage built up. Are you going to make functional front cockpit door?

Wallace J. Kao
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

Hi Wallace,

I don´t built the front cockpit, want to make only a cover over it, like the origin.

The door to it will be only hinted. Under the cover you have space for installation.

Regards
Bernie

I need photos of the rear cockpit, with all -Stick, pedals, handgears, so the whole cockpit.
Can anybody help me?
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Old 06-11-2007, 12:05 PM
  #173
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

BB,

I may be able to help with cockpit photos after this weekend. There is a Waco Fly In near St. Louis, MO, USA the 14th-17th and if there is an original YMF/UMF, I will get plenty of pictures and will send you copies. I do have cockpit photos of a 1940 UPF-7 that was developed from the YMF/UBF, but want to retake them. Also have some cockpit photos of 2 1932 UBF-2's (2 cockpit tandom) and 1932 UBA (2 seat side x side).
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Old 06-11-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau

pictures!!
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Old 06-11-2007, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCWalker

Hi all,

Can anyone help me on deciding what the best right thrust and down thrust angles are for Saito FA-450R3 engine on the 1/4 Scale Peter Barth's Waco YMF? I way planning to apply 1.5 degree right thrust and 0 degree for down thrust, but not sure if this is enough for such engine.
Hi Wallace,

The best you can do, write a E-mail to Peter Barth. He can tell you the right amount of side and down trust. mailto: info@modellbau-barth.de

Cesar.
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