Buiding the 33% Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
07-01-2007, 01:38 PM
#227
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Nice piece of engineering Bernie.
I am curious how you got to fix the stab to the "swivel-arm". Is the carbon tube near the two bearings a connection rod from the one stab half to the other?
One other question, are you intent to adjust the stab in flight or only on the ground.
And have you any idear what the force shall be on the servo to hold the stab in place in flight?
Maybe it is better to turn the servo arm 90 degrees downwards if you have found the right angle of incidence of the stab, the force on the servo arm is a lot less.
Oke than is your movement on the stab less but if you want to move the stab -3/+3 maybe you can place the sevo a bit more near the hinge-point of the swivel.
Keep us informed Bernie....
Regards,
Cesar.
I am curious how you got to fix the stab to the "swivel-arm". Is the carbon tube near the two bearings a connection rod from the one stab half to the other?
One other question, are you intent to adjust the stab in flight or only on the ground.
And have you any idear what the force shall be on the servo to hold the stab in place in flight?
Maybe it is better to turn the servo arm 90 degrees downwards if you have found the right angle of incidence of the stab, the force on the servo arm is a lot less.
Oke than is your movement on the stab less but if you want to move the stab -3/+3 maybe you can place the sevo a bit more near the hinge-point of the swivel.
Keep us informed Bernie....
Regards,
Cesar.
07-01-2007, 10:52 PM
#228
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi Ruud,
the tube you can see is the end-tube of the stab, and it´s one part. That means, I have to integrate the arm already while building the stab.
It will be glued in with epoxi on the arm. The tube on the photo is only sticked in, to control the right angle of the unit.
With this construction I have the possibility, to adjust the stab during flight. Someone here in the forum did it by this way, I don´t know more who,
but it works.
No intuition, how big the forces in the nose of the stab are, but it cannot be so large, when I look to the construction of Peter Barth - it´s holded only
by a M 5 plastic screw. And the both front tubes are planned only in 6mm tubes, I will take 8mm tubes for it. The forces on the rear rod are in my opinion
much more bigger, here operates the big elevator. In the plan Peter Barth use a 13mm balsa-spruce combination. I will take a 16mm cfk tube.
It´s right, when you say, the force on the servoarm is much more lesser, when it´s mounted 90° downwards. But then I hove only one direction,
where the servo-arm works. Even in which direction, left or right, it makes always a upward movement.
The servo arm is the only point, where I ´m a lttle bit scrupling. Of this reason I take a HT 5955TG with titan gear and 24kg power, thats rondly the same,
that the plane weihgts. The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
I hope, I could explane, what you asked.
Regards
bernie
the tube you can see is the end-tube of the stab, and it´s one part. That means, I have to integrate the arm already while building the stab.
It will be glued in with epoxi on the arm. The tube on the photo is only sticked in, to control the right angle of the unit.
With this construction I have the possibility, to adjust the stab during flight. Someone here in the forum did it by this way, I don´t know more who,
but it works.
No intuition, how big the forces in the nose of the stab are, but it cannot be so large, when I look to the construction of Peter Barth - it´s holded only
by a M 5 plastic screw. And the both front tubes are planned only in 6mm tubes, I will take 8mm tubes for it. The forces on the rear rod are in my opinion
much more bigger, here operates the big elevator. In the plan Peter Barth use a 13mm balsa-spruce combination. I will take a 16mm cfk tube.
It´s right, when you say, the force on the servoarm is much more lesser, when it´s mounted 90° downwards. But then I hove only one direction,
where the servo-arm works. Even in which direction, left or right, it makes always a upward movement.
The servo arm is the only point, where I ´m a lttle bit scrupling. Of this reason I take a HT 5955TG with titan gear and 24kg power, thats rondly the same,
that the plane weihgts. The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
I hope, I could explane, what you asked.
Regards
bernie
07-01-2007, 11:30 PM
#229
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
ORIGINAL: BigBoy99
The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
Greetz.
07-02-2007, 05:23 AM
#230
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
ORIGINAL: BigBoy99
Hi Ruud,
the tube you can see is the end-tube of the stab, and it´s one part. That means, I have to integrate the arm already while building the stab.
It will be glued in with epoxi on the arm. The tube on the photo is only sticked in, to control the right angle of the unit.
With this construction I have the possibility, to adjust the stab during flight. Someone here in the forum did it by this way, I don´t know more who,
but it works.
No intuition, how big the forces in the nose of the stab are, but it cannot be so large, when I look to the construction of Peter Barth - it´s holded only
by a M 5 plastic screw. And the both front tubes are planned only in 6mm tubes, I will take 8mm tubes for it. The forces on the rear rod are in my opinion
much more bigger, here operates the big elevator. In the plan Peter Barth use a 13mm balsa-spruce combination. I will take a 16mm cfk tube.
It´s right, when you say, the force on the servoarm is much more lesser, when it´s mounted 90° downwards. But then I hove only one direction,
where the servo-arm works. Even in which direction, left or right, it makes always a upward movement.
The servo arm is the only point, where I ´m a lttle bit scrupling. Of this reason I take a HT 5955TG with titan gear and 24kg power, thats rondly the same,
that the plane weihgts. The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
I hope, I could explane, what you asked.
Regards
bernie
Hi Ruud,
the tube you can see is the end-tube of the stab, and it´s one part. That means, I have to integrate the arm already while building the stab.
It will be glued in with epoxi on the arm. The tube on the photo is only sticked in, to control the right angle of the unit.
With this construction I have the possibility, to adjust the stab during flight. Someone here in the forum did it by this way, I don´t know more who,
but it works.
No intuition, how big the forces in the nose of the stab are, but it cannot be so large, when I look to the construction of Peter Barth - it´s holded only
by a M 5 plastic screw. And the both front tubes are planned only in 6mm tubes, I will take 8mm tubes for it. The forces on the rear rod are in my opinion
much more bigger, here operates the big elevator. In the plan Peter Barth use a 13mm balsa-spruce combination. I will take a 16mm cfk tube.
It´s right, when you say, the force on the servoarm is much more lesser, when it´s mounted 90° downwards. But then I hove only one direction,
where the servo-arm works. Even in which direction, left or right, it makes always a upward movement.
The servo arm is the only point, where I ´m a lttle bit scrupling. Of this reason I take a HT 5955TG with titan gear and 24kg power, thats rondly the same,
that the plane weihgts. The servo must not work permenent, it must only hold the stab in the front in it´s position.
I hope, I could explane, what you asked.
Regards
bernie
Always a upward movement is not necessary if you take -3 when the arm is down and +3 when move upwards but oke it is not ideal.
And indeed if Barth use a M5 plastic screw than a 24 KG servo must be enough.
I hope it will work out also with the flyingwires but i think they attached close to the hinge point so the tension on them will be the same when moving the stab.
Keep us informed Bernie.
Regards Cesar
07-02-2007, 08:42 AM
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Cesar, BB99,
Here are a couple of flying wire pictures on the tail of YMF Classic, NC 14081.
p-1 - Side view of rudder/stab/elevator
p-2 - Underside of stab/elevator/fuse at outer hinge/fly wire attach point.
p-3 - Close up of top of stab/elevator at outer hinge/fly wire attach point.
Here are a couple of flying wire pictures on the tail of YMF Classic, NC 14081.
p-1 - Side view of rudder/stab/elevator
p-2 - Underside of stab/elevator/fuse at outer hinge/fly wire attach point.
p-3 - Close up of top of stab/elevator at outer hinge/fly wire attach point.
07-02-2007, 01:32 PM
#232
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Thank you for the pictures,
they are great! [sm=thumbup.gif]. What I notice is, the photo from you must show a newer machine, because the edge on the rear end of the fin is straight,
also like in the plan from Peter Barth. I didn´t realize it, and built the rudder and the fin like on the plan.
But I like more the pre-balanced version like on this photo. I think, the pre-baalancing takes the power from the servo.
I´m considering to change it to the old version.
Regards
Bernie
they are great! [sm=thumbup.gif]. What I notice is, the photo from you must show a newer machine, because the edge on the rear end of the fin is straight,
also like in the plan from Peter Barth. I didn´t realize it, and built the rudder and the fin like on the plan.
But I like more the pre-balanced version like on this photo. I think, the pre-baalancing takes the power from the servo.
I´m considering to change it to the old version.
Regards
Bernie
07-02-2007, 02:32 PM
#233
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Bernie,
The yellow rudder you show is from one of the newer YMF Supers made by Waco Classic Aircraft. The balance was designed to lessen the aerodynamic load that the pilot feels and should work the same for the servo. The white rudder from NC 14081, ser # F5009, is a 1987 YMF Classic by the same company. The first 35-40 YMFs made by WCA were YMF Classics and were closely based on the original 1930s planes and have similar rudders. Since serial # xxx35-40, the YMFs have been Supers and incorporate the balanced rudder (and about 300 other changes). If you look at the National Waco Club website in the F3F5 section, and look for NC 14132, (I think on page 3), it has a balanced rudder of a different balance design. If you are going to fly for fun, either rudder is fine. If you are going to enter scale competition, you need to find a subject plane and model the rudder (and other parts) it has.
The yellow rudder you show is from one of the newer YMF Supers made by Waco Classic Aircraft. The balance was designed to lessen the aerodynamic load that the pilot feels and should work the same for the servo. The white rudder from NC 14081, ser # F5009, is a 1987 YMF Classic by the same company. The first 35-40 YMFs made by WCA were YMF Classics and were closely based on the original 1930s planes and have similar rudders. Since serial # xxx35-40, the YMFs have been Supers and incorporate the balanced rudder (and about 300 other changes). If you look at the National Waco Club website in the F3F5 section, and look for NC 14132, (I think on page 3), it has a balanced rudder of a different balance design. If you are going to fly for fun, either rudder is fine. If you are going to enter scale competition, you need to find a subject plane and model the rudder (and other parts) it has.
]
07-06-2007, 01:44 PM
#235
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi Alexzz,
don´t worry, here in southern germany it´s not better, but the forecast for the weekend is better.
It´s the right weather, to go in to the cellar and BUILT!!!!!!! Ha,ha, ha.....
Past week I did make the whole stab and fin pretendable, and the stab is now nearly redy. The three carbon tubes are building
an unbelievable stabil triangle, I´m surprised, how strong and hard it is. I´m very glad about this, my misgivings get smaller and smaller!
And I´m glad, that I follow the advice from Cesar, to make it pretendable.
Next week I will start with the elevator, but I´m waiting for the drive-shaft for it, in the middle its round for the ball bearings, and at its ends a square box.
These changings cost a lot of time, but it is it worth!
Regards to all
Bernie
don´t worry, here in southern germany it´s not better, but the forecast for the weekend is better.
It´s the right weather, to go in to the cellar and BUILT!!!!!!! Ha,ha, ha.....
Past week I did make the whole stab and fin pretendable, and the stab is now nearly redy. The three carbon tubes are building
an unbelievable stabil triangle, I´m surprised, how strong and hard it is. I´m very glad about this, my misgivings get smaller and smaller!
And I´m glad, that I follow the advice from Cesar, to make it pretendable.
Next week I will start with the elevator, but I´m waiting for the drive-shaft for it, in the middle its round for the ball bearings, and at its ends a square box.
These changings cost a lot of time, but it is it worth!
Regards to all
Bernie
07-08-2007, 01:14 PM
#236
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi all,
today the weather was ok so here we go with the maiden.
It all went well, the Waco fly's verry fine and neutral. A few klicks up trim and that's it. The power from the MVVS 116 is outstanding the Waco weights 18,5 and the vertical performance is unlimited.
Turns a 30/10 Menz with 6300 rpm.
At the first flight the engine drops dead because it was a litle bit on the lean side, but also with a dead stick the landing was predictable and neutral to carry out. Lucky for me that it happens on a high altitude so i can make a landing circuit. After I set the engine a litle bit richer it al went ok.
I have also make a small video from the second flight that I wil post later this evening.
Greetz,
A verry happy me.......
today the weather was ok so here we go with the maiden.
It all went well, the Waco fly's verry fine and neutral. A few klicks up trim and that's it. The power from the MVVS 116 is outstanding the Waco weights 18,5 and the vertical performance is unlimited.
Turns a 30/10 Menz with 6300 rpm.
At the first flight the engine drops dead because it was a litle bit on the lean side, but also with a dead stick the landing was predictable and neutral to carry out. Lucky for me that it happens on a high altitude so i can make a landing circuit. After I set the engine a litle bit richer it al went ok.
I have also make a small video from the second flight that I wil post later this evening.
Greetz,
A verry happy me.......
07-08-2007, 01:33 PM
#237
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi Ruud,
Congratulations to the maiden, well done!!!![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
I think, you must be very happy now.
How does she fly, when the engine is off? Do you have more pictures of the maiden?
I feel with you, it´s such a nice hobby we have.
Oncemore : C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S! ! !
Regards
Bernie
Congratulations to the maiden, well done!!!![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
I think, you must be very happy now.
How does she fly, when the engine is off? Do you have more pictures of the maiden?
I feel with you, it´s such a nice hobby we have.
Oncemore : C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S! ! !
Regards
Bernie
07-08-2007, 04:31 PM
#239
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
ORIGINAL: BigBoy99
How does she fly, when the engine is off? Do you have more pictures of the maiden?
How does she fly, when the engine is off? Do you have more pictures of the maiden?
When the motor is off you have to dive verry quickly for maintain a reasonable airspeed when you do not the plane stalls. When do so the Waco listen reasonably to you steering input.
You have to think quickly how to make your landing circuit and do it just right because you got one chance. When it happens to me this afternoon my balls are under my armpits ha ha ha .....
The next time I shall make some more pictures of the Waco.
Here is a video of the second flight. The landing is not so nice but oke I must get used to it.
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...WacoMaiden.flv
Regards.
Cesar
07-08-2007, 07:27 PM
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Ruud, are you in that photo of your Waco with Kris's Stearman in the backround???? I see Kris but I don't see you.
Steve
Oh yea..flew my Waco today.... all went well.I scared the hell out of my flying buddies only once during this flight. But I had a bit of a problem landing in a 20mph head wind....she just floated on by for a while but I got her down just fine.......now to change my underware
Steve
Oh yea..flew my Waco today.... all went well.I scared the hell out of my flying buddies only once during this flight. But I had a bit of a problem landing in a 20mph head wind....she just floated on by for a while but I got her down just fine.......now to change my underware
ORIGINAL: redcesar
Hi all,
today the weather was ok so here we go with the maiden.
It all went well, the Waco fly's verry fine and neutral. A few klicks up trim and that's it. The power from the MVVS 116 is outstanding the Waco weights 18,5 and the vertical performance is unlimited.
Turns a 30/10 Menz with 6300 rpm.
At the first flight the engine drops dead because it was a litle bit on the lean side, but also with a dead stick the landing was predictable and neutral to carry out. Lucky for me that it happens on a high altitude so i can make a landing circuit. After I set the engine a litle bit richer it al went ok.
I have also make a small video from the second flight that I wil post later this evening.
Greetz,
A verry happy me.......
Hi all,
today the weather was ok so here we go with the maiden.
It all went well, the Waco fly's verry fine and neutral. A few klicks up trim and that's it. The power from the MVVS 116 is outstanding the Waco weights 18,5 and the vertical performance is unlimited.
Turns a 30/10 Menz with 6300 rpm.
At the first flight the engine drops dead because it was a litle bit on the lean side, but also with a dead stick the landing was predictable and neutral to carry out. Lucky for me that it happens on a high altitude so i can make a landing circuit. After I set the engine a litle bit richer it al went ok.
I have also make a small video from the second flight that I wil post later this evening.
Greetz,
A verry happy me.......
07-09-2007, 01:19 AM
#243
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...WacoMaiden.flv
Sorry guys, maybe this one wil work......
Cesar.
Sorry guys, maybe this one wil work......
Cesar.
07-10-2007, 10:29 AM
#244
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi Ruud,
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
07-10-2007, 01:10 PM
#246
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
ORIGINAL: BigBoy99
Hi Ruud,
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
Hi Ruud,
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
Yes it is not really neat scale flying and a litle bit to fast but I was a litle bit anxious that the engine stops for the second time so I keep the plane high and let drops the rpm of the engine not to idle. Yes the landing was a litle bit bumpy, the first landing with the engine cut off was even better ha ha ha ha.
For the next flight I put on a other prop with a litle bit more load on the engine so the rpm drops a few hundred than it became also more realistic flying. The first prop was for the first liters fuel and breaking in the engine a litle.
The handling in the air is very predictably and rock steady, yes a verry fine flyer I think.
I'am now bussy with a box that places the inlet of the carb in the fuse also I make a litle tubing on the carb backplate and lead that also in the fuse where the air presure is more equal.
That litle hole in the back plate of the carb where i make the tube measures the atmosphere presure and that must be so equel as possible, it is now measuring in the cowl and measures to much presure different and that is not oke.
Your work on the stab looks good and oke it takes a litle more time but after it is finished it gives you a lot satisfaction of your work.
Regards,
Cesar.
07-10-2007, 01:40 PM
#247
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Cesar,
Great WACO!!!!! Nice job on the flight. I would like to see the plane in person someday. Best of luck to you.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Great WACO!!!!! Nice job on the flight. I would like to see the plane in person someday. Best of luck to you.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
07-10-2007, 02:41 PM
#248
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Ruud....... VERY NICE!! Ruud tell me.how far did you have to jump when Kris's prop broke off the hub?? Did Kris have to change his underware??????? that is if the old boy wears any
Steve
Steve
ORIGINAL: redcesar
Hi Bernie, Alex,
Yes it is not really neat scale flying and a litle bit to fast but I was a litle bit anxious that the engine stops for the second time so I keep the plane high and let drops the rpm of the engine not to idle. Yes the landing was a litle bit bumpy, the first landing with the engine cut off was even better ha ha ha ha.
For the next flight I put on a other prop with a litle bit more load on the engine so the rpm drops a few hundred than it became also more realistic flying. The first prop was for the first liters fuel and breaking in the engine a litle.
The handling in the air is very predictably and rock steady, yes a verry fine flyer I think.
I'am now bussy with a box that places the inlet of the carb in the fuse also I make a litle tubing on the carb backplate and lead that also in the fuse where the air presure is more equal.
That litle hole in the back plate of the carb where i make the tube measures the atmosphere presure and that must be so equel as possible, it is now measuring in the cowl and measures to much presure different and that is not oke.
Your work on the stab looks good and oke it takes a litle more time but after it is finished it gives you a lot satisfaction of your work.
Regards,
Cesar.
ORIGINAL: BigBoy99
Hi Ruud,
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
Hi Ruud,
very, very good, your Waco. It´s unbelievable, after 2 meters she´s lifting the tail and in the air she seems very agile.
I think, mine will need a little bit more way to start, because of the more weight in the tail.
It noises a bit windy at your second flight. How was the handling in the air?
Im still making my elevator, the outer bearings shell look like the origin. That costs all a lot of time.
Regards
Bernie
Yes it is not really neat scale flying and a litle bit to fast but I was a litle bit anxious that the engine stops for the second time so I keep the plane high and let drops the rpm of the engine not to idle. Yes the landing was a litle bit bumpy, the first landing with the engine cut off was even better ha ha ha ha.
For the next flight I put on a other prop with a litle bit more load on the engine so the rpm drops a few hundred than it became also more realistic flying. The first prop was for the first liters fuel and breaking in the engine a litle.
The handling in the air is very predictably and rock steady, yes a verry fine flyer I think.
I'am now bussy with a box that places the inlet of the carb in the fuse also I make a litle tubing on the carb backplate and lead that also in the fuse where the air presure is more equal.
That litle hole in the back plate of the carb where i make the tube measures the atmosphere presure and that must be so equel as possible, it is now measuring in the cowl and measures to much presure different and that is not oke.
Your work on the stab looks good and oke it takes a litle more time but after it is finished it gives you a lot satisfaction of your work.
Regards,
Cesar.
07-10-2007, 02:55 PM
#249
Thread Starter
RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Hi Steve,
Yes I made a jump that broke olympic records And we must have both change our underware brrrr I jump out of my skin man.
It broke at full trotle and the 140cc spins up like hell after the blades come of.
Cesar.
Yes I made a jump that broke olympic records And we must have both change our underware brrrr I jump out of my skin man.
It broke at full trotle and the 140cc spins up like hell after the blades come of.
Cesar.
07-10-2007, 03:05 PM
#250
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: spring valley ,
CA
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RE: Buiding pics Waco YMF-5 Barth Modellbau
Well Ruud at least you got away from it without being hit., Did Kris show or tell you about my run in with a prop about 2 months ago??????? it was nasty and it hurt tooooooooo![:@]
Steve
Steve
ORIGINAL: redcesar
Hi Steve,
Yes I made a jump that broke olympic records And we must have both change our underware brrrr I jump out of my skin man.
It broke at full trotle and the 140cc spins up like hell after the blades come of.
Cesar.
Hi Steve,
Yes I made a jump that broke olympic records And we must have both change our underware brrrr I jump out of my skin man.
It broke at full trotle and the 140cc spins up like hell after the blades come of.
Cesar.