PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I don't think so. We just realized that we had both bought the larger Robarts.

We'll need some of them for the ailerons, so we'll need some of them. But, if the tail surfaces come with the smaller ones, then I'm sure there's a reason. Probably not enough meat in them to support the larger Robarts. So, we're putting the smaller Robarts on our shopping lists.

Like I said, I had considered buying some smaller ones yesterday, because they looked like the smaller ones in the build manual online. I even had a pack in my hands, but thought I'd wait and see.

If a giant has smaller hinges and I think it could use extra reinforcement, I occasionally add a couple of hinges to each side of the elevator or to the rudder.

~ Jim ~[8D]

WI53072

Picked up smaller hinges today as well as a pull pull cable set, 4-40 ball links, 4-40 safety clevis' carbon fiber push rods. Placed order for 5 Hitec 5625's. Monday I will call valleyview rc and get the DLE 35RA comming. Also, I have to get an email off to Dan Spears about the cowl being damaged. More set up tonight and gluing.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

You might need this:

danspeers 'at' rcguys.com

Sounds like you're getting down to work on that. Carry on bravely!

~ Jim ~[8D]

WI53072

Guys,

I have the horizontal and vertical stabs glued on. I took a great deal of time aligning the stabs. Jim, thanks for Dan's email. I will send him a photo of the damaged cowl. We will see after this amount of time has gone by since I recieved the kit from Chief Aircraft. I got this kit the same week I got my Kadet Senior kit. Here are a couple of pictures. I will be working on prepping the "tail feathers" tonight. You have to enlarge and deepen the holes to accomodate the slightly longer Robart hinges. They are the same diameter they just need to be seated deeper in the stabs and control surfaces. Once I have that done then I will 30 minute epoxy them into place. Jim I am using your hinging method. You should post a link on how to do this in this thread. I never knew about the form relaease still on the hinges.

Paul

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Hi Paul,

Looking good there. I see you have that critical piece of work equipment, the lawn chair, to be used to sit and stare at it and decide what you'll do next.

Yes, the drilled holes that are in the model are never the finished hole to properly accommodate the finished hinges, especially the section with the pin, which is usually larger and needs some more room. Personally, I find installing any kind of hinges to be a bit of a hassle, but it always seems that the jobs that are most critical are the ones where you have to pay the most attention. In the case of the Robart pin hinges, they're worth the extra effort. When you finish, you always have this involuntary, "Whew!", but it's a good feeling, knowing that, due to your diligence and hard work, a truly critical aspect of your model is going to perform at 100%.

Mold release agent is used on most hinges; most cast plastic parts in general, in fact. Knowing that it's used on all those parts, it just makes sense that it may still be there. I used to sit there with a piece of cloth and some denatured alcohol, rubbing on each one. Then one day it occurred to me that I might be just moving whatever release agent I found from once piece to the next. That's where I developed my jelly-jar method. I pour a few ounces of denatured alcohol into a plastic Jelly jar, preferably Bama (kidding - Welch's is just as good), and toss in the whole bunch of hinges, close it up, and shake them for a minute or two. Then I pull them out with hemostats or needle-nose pliers and slap them onto a nice, fresh, clean paper towel, and dry them. NOTE: DISCARD the alcohol you used; it may look clean, but the mold release agent is in there. DO NOT return it to the alcohol bottle.

Once that's done, you know your glue of choice (I prefer 30-minute epoxy) is more likely to stick like glue (hehehe) to the hinge point. You can further increase the glue's ability to hold by increasing the surface area. This is simply the roughing up of the surface using something coarse like very heavy sandpaper, and sometimes I use a carbide dremel bit on low speed, slapping it against the barbs where it tears up little bits of plastic, leaving it very rough. You can actually increase the surface are exponentially doing this, and glue loves having a rough place to hold to. DO NOT rough up the center, pinned section. Rough up ONLY the barbed sections.

Those two actions alone will greatly increase the holding strength of your Robart pin hinges.

Before gluing, cut a bunch of paper towels into quarters, and stack them around you at handy intervals. Have an old box or waste can within reach.

When you're applying the glue, it's not how much glue you put on the hinge, but that you carefully coat the entire barb, even with a light coat. I put a light coat on the barbed section, after I've worked a good amount down into the hole, and then, when I slide them together, I know I've got no gaps or misses. When I slide the hinge into the hole, I stop short of seating it, and grab some paper towel pieces, and remove excess epoxy from around it, so it doesn't flood the pin section. Toss the towels into the trash.

If you've got a surface with the hinges installed, ready to glue them all into their mate surface, remember to stop just short of seating the hinge, and wipe the excess away. It takes some practice, but I've got it down to where I usually have just enough glue, without too much wiping. The idea is that the epoxy belongs in the hole, not in the pin section. You really want to avoid using the oils, greases, and vaseline applications to the pin section, because one little slip can compromise all the hard work you've already done to ensure a clean glue joint.

Yes, a little epoxy may get into the pin section, but it's not a real problem. Once it sets up, remove your tape and clean the are up, and flake away whatever excess globs you find. Then, take a drop or two of denatured alcohol and drip it onto each pin section, and flex the surface. it should break loose and start turning pretty easily, as denatured alcohol works on epoxy. If this isn't working well, and it's still flexing hard, don't force it. Just grab some Acetone (PLEASE - use Acetone ONLY if the alcohol really doesn't want to work). Place ONE DROP on the hinge, and give it a few seconds, and flex it. That'll break it loose for sure. Flex it for a minute or so. This is when I place one drop of oil (I now use an oil called Militec, but you can use engine after-run oil, it works great) on each hinge, and work it in. It'll displace the alcohol or Acetone, and your hinge will be good from then on.

I should note here that, most of the time, no alcohol is required, if you've paid attention to removing excess epoxy from the pin section. It usually breaks free and flexes without much effort.

Most importantly, when you done the job with these methods, no oil ever got near the glue joint, and you can be assured of having the best chances for success.

I've placed the links to my Robart Pin Hinge installation videos here in the forums before, Paul. Is that what you're talking about?

Sure, I'll list them here again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBCelaWyP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_IKo...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sny6B...hannel&list=UL

Enjoy!


~ Jim ~

WI53072

Guys,

Dan Speers just emailed me and advised me that RC guys will be replacing my cowling free of charge and it will ship this week!!!! I can't say enough for these guys and their customer support and customer service! Extremely responsive and very prompt. I am a very happy RC Guy's SD owner!

Jim, yep, those videos you made on hinge installation are very good, thanks for putting those links out there. Great help for us guys new to large scale aircraft!!


Paul

bradleyban

Yep Dan is a great guy. When I bought mine I had to opportunity do visit his shop when I picked it up. Had a pretty good chat with him.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Great to hear that you're getting your cowl replaced. It adds to the list of positive comments I've read about them.

RC Guys is making a good name for themselves. I'm pretty keen on that Ag Wagon they sell, too. I wish I had the room for it!

~ Jim ~

WI53072

For you DLE guys out there, add to your list Valleyview RC. Tammy will be seeing that I recieve my DLE 35RA this week rather tham make me wait for it to show up after our upcoming long Holiday. Thanks Tammy!!!

WI53072

Guys,

I called Valley View RC and Tammy informed me that the DLE35RA is on its way priority mail as of today noon Pacific Coast Time. I think it will get here to Wisconsin by Friday...hopefully! I got a chance to go out and fly tonight I had the H9 RV-8 for its first flight, so I was only able to complete the tail feathers and install the tail wheel assembly on the SD. The tail wheel actually is pretty well put together and looks like it will do the job. I plan on getting the main gear on tomorrow less the wheel pants since I am going to have to stand this plane up against a ladder to get the motor/cowl alignment right. I can put the wheel pants on much later. The elevator seems a little stiff and has a slight imbalance between up and down. I have the joint tight, so there is a very small margin between the stab and elevator. I think this will work itself in. I cleaned out the joint with denatured alcohol and then added a drop of light oil to each hinge pin. I will just keep working it I believe it will be ok.

The servos are not in yet either, I ordered Hitec 5645's for each control surface. I hope this wasnt overkill! Here are a couple of pictures of the SD as of tonight.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Ouch, yes, I see what you mean about the ladder. It's usually preferable to set the fin on the floor before the tail feathers are permanently mounted, and tape the fuse against the workbench to set up and mount your cowl and motor. It's much easier that way. Oh, well. It's not that big a deal. I've done it before myself. You can get it done using the ladder setup, no problem.

If the pin hinges are still stiff, try a drop of acetone on the hinge section, and work it briskly. Since you have it moving, it should chase out anything that's left behind. Afterward, just put another drop of oil on it. Also, make sure to inspect off to the sides of each hinge, little chunks of epoxy can remain and can really make them stiff. Looks like you did a fine job there. Good alignment, and no visible gaps.

Those servos aren't overkill at all. Lots of torque without going too crazy, plenty of power to run the surfaces without drawing tons of amps. Good choice for this plane, I'd say. They're the next step up from the 645s I have slated to use for my ailerons.

You're doing well. Well enough that I'm jealous!

~ Jim ~

WI53072

Jim,

Are you ordering the SD pretty soon?? or is it on the way? I hope you do the assembly video on this plane. It appears Dan Speers checks this thread. He contacted me initially regarding the cowl replacement. That is very impressive!!! Hope you get your SD soon!!

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Funny you should ask about that.

I promised my wife I'd sell my glow birds and use that money to buy the Decathlon. We have a vacation coming up in a couple of months, and for some silly reason she thinks we ought to have plenty of spending money for that. Ridiculous, eh?

I've got three of my glow birds up for sale, and so far, not much activity, which is frustrating and a little puzzling, since they're such nice models. Lots of looky-loos, asking questions and probing to see how little I'll take, but not using the "Make Offer" button to make offers. Since they're not making offers, they're just window shopping. A waste of my time. I'll answer questions about the birds, but otherwise, I don't even bother with those.

Just yesterday I reduced their prices a LOT. Saito powered, they run and fly beautifully, nothing but the best stuff.

I've sold one item, so I don't have too far to go.

Right now, I'm barely resisting the urge to whip out the plastic and just order it in.

As soon as I get anywhere close, I'll order it in. I was pretty hot to get it last week, but I had a crash over the weekend when my Giant Super Sportster came in contact with a power line I didn't even see. It's hurt, but repairable, and since it's my favorite bird by far right now, I've been collecting and ordering parts in, and gluing the fuse back together piece by piece. It has helped to distract me. . . some. Now that I've gathered and ordered the parts, I'm back to focusing on the Decathlon project while I dabble on the repairs.

I have gotten almost all the items I'll need to dig in and start the Decathlon. My carbon fiber rods and ends just came in from Central Hobbies. I'm still working out with TruTurn which spinner will be the best fit for my Syssa engine and Xoar propellers. I'm going with a new style of battery this time. It will be my first foray into the A123s, which I'm getting from Radical RC.com.

I wish I didn't have to wait, but that "threat of death" thing if I use other funds for the Decathlon - that helps me show some patience.

~ Jim ~

WI53072

Jim,

I know the feeling!! I have a H9 27% Edge I would like to sell for real cheap, but presently no takers in the area. I am also going to be un-loading a Saito 1.80 later this year that has been broken in, but never used to fly a plane yet. It was a door prize at a local RC event about 5 years ago!!!

I still need to address the spinner as well. Also, have you had any experience with the opto link kill switch that was part of my deal when I ordered in the DLE? I have read that it is powered of a battery pack from 4.8V to 7.4V and that no voltage regulators are necessary as in the "old days". I need to research this and the sullivan smoke system. I am thinking of using a seperate 6V 2700 MaH Nimh pack for the rx and Servo's which I have on hand. The ignition system and possible smoke system will also run on seperate batteries as well. I am in the search/learn mode now on those items. I more than likely will roll the SD out and de-bug and get use to before I entertain adding smoke. Good luck with your repairs on the GSS.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

As far as a build video goes, Dan indicated that they weren't interested in me doing one, and he said that there are several out there already. I asked for a link, but he couldn't locate one.

So, I looked everywhere I can think of, and I've looked at least ten times, but I didn't find any build videos for their Decathlon. One guy made a video comprised of a series of stills. No sound, no talking, just a slideshow. It was good, but not as comprehensive as somebody considering the build would want it to be.

Not sure whether I should, if they have no interest. Making my Building With Jim videos, I learned that it's a real time-consuming proposition. It takes about an hour to an hour and a half of shooting to create ten good minutes of footage, usually with about twenty minutes of re-shoots after the footage is inspected. I reckon that a good build video on the Decathlon would finish up at an hour's worth of segments, maybe more. That's about sixty to eighty hours of shooting. Fifty if I'm zipping along and making zero mistakes. There are some shortcuts I could take, explaining what I did on one item rather than showing it, but it always gives the impression that I took some shortcuts.

I won't say I'm not going to do it. Not yet. But I'm not sure how much benefit it would be, or how many people would use it.

~ Jim

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

WI53072 (You gotta tell us your name),

I can tell you that the ignition systems do best on 4.8 volts, and that a comparable 4.8Volt pack will outlast a 6Volt pack. There's some conflict as to whether the higher voltages are harder on the ignition systems. Dick Pettit just had a Syssa ignition fail when he hooked it up to an A123 LiFe pack. Syssa recommends that you use 4.8 Volts for your ignition. According to Dick, all ignitions of that brand (Excel?) are now rated for higher voltages. Those are the facts. You decide what you'd do!

Whereas I'm sure that these electronics are - one by one - being upgraded to accommodate the ever-higher voltage packs being used, I am prone to just play it safe. I know they'll ALL handle 4.8 volts, I know the 4.8 V packs will last as long or longer than the higher voltage packs. I know that the ignition circuit boards were made for 4.8 V and modified for higher voltages, and perhaps they'll get hotter with higher voltages.

Why chance it? I find the highest mAh 4.8V battery pack I can find, and run it through the IBEC/ Opto-Kill switch (another circuit board originally built for 4.8V). I've always given my ignitions their own battery pack, so why not make it a 4.8V?

I'm with you on the possibility of a smoke system. This Decathlon can carry that extra weight like it's not even there. Not sure I'm prepared to go back to wiping GOO off of my plane, though. That just comes with the territory with smoke. The Syssa comes with smoke taps right in the muffler.

I have used a 2700 NiMh 6V Rx pack on most of my planes to date. I have a 4000mAh in my Giant Super Sportster, but it would be another 2700 if not for a great deal Dave Thacker at Radical RC gave me on that 4000. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 2700.

That being said, the research I've been doing (after being mercilessly pushed to it by Al and Paul) clearly shows that the A123 batteries are even better for the purpose of Rx packs. If you have a charger that will handle the LIFE packs, then it's worth considering. That's from me, a die-hard NiMh user. Though the NiMh have higher ratings now for delivering amperage, under certain conditions (when there are a number of high-draw servos, OR when your voltage gets low) they can fall short, and leave you (here we go, Al's going to be biting his tongue again) vulnerable to a possible brownout. There, that only hurt a little to say.[:@] On this size of plane, it's unlikely, but once again, the question has to be asked; Why chance it? If you have a charger that can charge/balance the LiFe packs, and you haven't bought your batteries yet, it's worth considering.

Oh, and always make sure you're dealing with somebody reputable. There are TONS of people out there selling seconds. When it comes to batteries, I don't trust Tower. I buy from Radical RC, where I've never EVER gotten a bad pack, and I've probably bought fifty or more from him. I trust Dave. You want to use a place like that. You won't be sorry.

~ Jim ~

WI53072

Well, the LHS called. The Servo's will be in on Friday at noon. If nothing else since we are to get the remainder of Hurricane Isaac this weekend I can work on installing the radio!!! Are there any prefered methods for radi installation on this kit?? i.e. where to mount the reciever.

I am going with two servo's in the tail and a program mix with elevator and Aux2 on Pmix 5. I am going to at first try the ailerons on a simple "y" connector, I will use the gear channel for the remote throttle kill switch, then you basic throttle and rudder set ups. This should leave me AUX1 for the future if I want to put smoke on the plane or I could mix that with the aileron's and deploy flaps. However, I understand this plane handles gently on landing so I will do my best to keep her light as possible.

Tonight it will be onto the main gear and then onto the ailerons being added to the wings. Still miles to go!!

Paul

WI53072

Jim,

I am with you on the 4.8V. I will keep it simple first time around. I am all for simple and what has been reliably reliable!! And as for smoke, that if I do it will be down the road a piece. Another hint on this kit. Installing the mains were a bit of a hassle. I ended up using a 6 inch extension on a 1/4 inch drive with a 5/32 hex key to tighten them. The fuse is unweildly!!!

Paul

AKA Wi53072

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Paul,

I wouldn't put a Y in the ailerons. They should be installed on two channels in flaperon configuration, the manual will lay it out for you. Set the radio up for flaperon configuration before you hook up servo arms. If you need extra channels later, you can address that then. Right from the start, your Decathlon should have the ability to deploy flaperons.

Thanks for the heads-up on the gear installation.

Dan wrote me, said he'd misunderstood what I asked him about the video, thought I was asking about doing a review. He'd love to see a build video.

So, I might make one yet.

~ Jim ~

sdossett

Paul

Yah..getting in there to tighten things up is a hassle.

I probably tighten them with every couple hours of flighttime.

Once you remember which combination of extensions and such work, it's not too bad.

Another problem for me was with the wind strut tabs in the fuse. They wanted to keep loosening and almost wiggling out. I solved the problem by buying a piece of 1/2" wide aluminum bar about 1/8" thick from the hardware store and ran a continuous strut tab/bar from one side to the other. Bend a little, fit ,repeat then drill for the cap screw. No more problems with that.

My Saito 180 went to Horizon today. Just across town for me. I gotta figure out why it's dead-sticking or I'm gonna try a Sullivan on-board ignitor.

Have fun.
Scott

sdossett

Paul

Yah..getting in there to tighten things up is a hassle.

I probably tighten them with every couple hours of flighttime.

Once you remember which combination of extensions and such work, it's not too bad.

Another problem for me was with the wind strut tabs in the fuse. They wanted to keep loosening and almost wiggling out. I solved the problem by buying a piece of 1/2" wide aluminum bar about 1/8" thick from the hardware store and ran a continuous strut tab/bar from one side to the other. Bend a little, fit ,repeat then drill for the cap screw. No more problems with that.

My Saito 180 went to Horizon today. Just across town for me. I gotta figure out why it's dead-sticking or I'm gonna try a Sullivan on-board ignitor.

Have fun.
Scott

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Scott,

On the bigger Saitos, you MUST use the largest fuel tubing you can find to vent the crankcase, or it makes them "cranky".

Perhaps most important, DO NOT use any kind of spring-loaded fueler on a Saito fuel system, especially a big Saito. The motor's suction will pull air into the fuel line through the fueler. If you have one of those, replace it with a fuel dot. Positive seal on the fuel line for Saitos is always critical.

A new glow plug wouldn't hurt, if you haven't already.

I'll bet it'll run like a million bucks once you do that and tune it up.

~ Jim ~

WI53072

Jim,

I Have that flaperon set up on my big Kadet, it comes in handy landing the plane. Stands to reason they would work well on the SD too. You should do a build video. An experienced builder putting together a plane would only serve to help those not so experienced. May save Dan some headaches too!!

Scott,

I ran Sullivan glow drivers on all my Saito's they are easy to set up so that when you want to start the motor it is on and it will come on at low idle and keep the plug warm. All 4 strokes like to run rich and should. It seems the Saito which I do love as an engine just benefits from a glow driver at the low end real much. I powered the glow driver with a single cell nicad that I charged only a couple of times a year. Put the battery where you can get at it easy. Batteries plus sells them for a couple of bucks I had Batteries Plus spot weld on solder tabs on the battery. Hope this Helps some.

Paul

sdossett

Paul

Thanks for the info.

So let me get this straight.. I don't need the Sullivan $50 rig with the big panel to mount and all. You've had success just going to the glow plug with 1.5 VDC constant, I assume switched? I can do that!

I like the big 4 stroke sound, running mine with just the flex pipe....but I also like rolling this Decathlon on a big straight down line..finding out I have no engine at the end..well thank goodness for momentum!

Any suggestions welcome, 7 years in this hobby ain't enough to play expert.

Scott

WI53072

Scott,

Yes, you need the Sullivan Glow Driver. You install the panel on you plane preferably in a place that has easy access and in plain sight away from exhaust. You plug your throttle lead from your servo into the Sullivan unit. There is a corrosponding lead on the Sullivan unit that you plug into your throttle channel on your Rx. Then, you need a power source for the glow power. That is where you need the sub-c cell. I had Batteries Plus sell me a 3000 MaH sub-c cell for a couple of dollars. They in turn spot welded two soldering tabs on that battery. In one instance they actually soldered a set of leads onto the battery tabs for me as well. You need to prepare a a set of battery leads for the sub c cell. I believe the sullivan unit comes with a small deans connector on it, with another loose connector for your battery lead. Also be sure to get the ground wire conncted to your motot mount. I just removed a engine mounting bolt and bolted it to the motor, since my motor mount was nylon.

1. The unit has a on off slide switch that has to be on 2. you can choose to turn on the glow driver with another small push button a LED will light (your rx needs to be on) 3. you can program this unit very simple so that it only comes on at whatever low idle stick position you program into the Sullivan, very easy the instructions are real easy.

I would turn on the tx, turn on the rx, turn on the Sullivan unit, put my throttle stick at my low idle position and start my motor. Throttle up and the glow driver went off. Come in for a landing and throttle back, the glow driver comes back on and heats the glow plug, preventing most if not all flame outs. These units really are good and easy to use. No more flame outs after i began using them.

Paul