Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

The March 2000 M.A.N. had a construction article on Gary Allen's 1/3 scale Bücker Jungmeister. I ordered the plans and built one. This undoubtably was one of the nicest flying biplanes that I've flown. I had it about a year when a severe mid air turned it into a pile of sticks. I've built 3 giant scale planes since then but have wanted another Jungmeister.

Arizona Model Aircrafters http://www.arizonamodels.com/ puts out a short kit of this model. I recently bought one and I'm in the process of getting it ready to build. The laser cut parts are very accurate.

This plane attracted a lot of interest at every big bird flyin that I took it to. It is certainly not a run of the mill giant scale plane. It also qualifies as a warbird because the Germans and Swiss used it as an advanced aerobatic trainer for their Air Force. My first one was done in the German air show team colors. I'm going to do this one in the Swiss Air Force trainer colors. If you have building experience, this plane is pretty straight forward to build. The plans are very good. The flying wires are functional and necessary.

If there is some interest in this project I will provide construction photos in this thread as I go along. I will also provide hints and address building issues that I see. If you have been looking around for a giant scale plane that is a bit "different" then why not jump in and lets build one together.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hi Big Bird:

I cannot afford a big one like that yet. But I do have one of the Pica kits I am gonna do some day. Your bird really did look great! I am sorry you lost it in a midair. That woulda made me mad. I would not mind it so much if I boo-boo'd it all by myself. Anyway grat lookin plane lets see photo's along the way. And some of the final product.

Mark Shuman

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Great looking plane. How much to build one for me????????? (I can get the kit)

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

Mark, you will really enjoy your Pica Jungmeister someday. Anyone who has ever had a Jungmeister knows what a terrific flying bipe it is.

AJF--2, I wish I could build one for you. It would be the first one that I had ever built for anyone. However, I could never get the creative juices flowing if I were not building it for me.

I'll post some photos to this thread as I make progress.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

Good thread , Ken. I flew Team Scale with Gary Allen with the Jungmeister in 2003 in several meets , and we're campaigning the Jungie again in 2004. Great flying plane , and the plan is accurate to Gary's three view, which three view was redrawn by Gary and ok'd by Dave Platt. Makes for a good contest bird, and is practical for everyday flying. I've found the G62 to be a great engine for this plane. Look forward to the thread.

Dorin Luck

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

I have always been interested in the 1/3 scale Jungmeister and have wondered about the quality of the kits being offered. Although I haven't tried giant scale yet, I shall certainly be following your thread with great interest and appreciation.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

Dorian, thanks for jumping in here. I used a G62 on the first one but I have a Sachs based 4.2 that I'm going to use on this one. It's about the same weight as the G62. My first one weighed about 30#. I'm trying my best to get this one to come in around 25#. Good luck on the scale circuit this year.

quietflyer, the quality of this short kit from AMA is very good. Normally this is a scratch built plane from Gary's plans. If you want a high quality kit, get the plans and cut one out. Fortunately the cowl and fenders are available from Arizona Model Aircrafters and are very light and very high quality.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

One mod on the last one that I made and will be carried forward into this one vastly simplifies assembly at the field. In the first photo you will notice the "H" bracket on the end of the wings. Instead of putting the anti rotation dowels on the center section of the wings, I put them on the outboard section. The "H" bracket is slotted where the dowels are so that after sliding the wing assembly onto the plane, the bracket can be slipped off and the wing assembly attached. The reverse takes place when disassembling the wing. After the wing assembly is off the plane 4-40 screws are screwed through the "H" bracket into the outer ribs. As you can see, the interplane struts and flying wires stay in place.

The second photo shows the results of the severe mid air.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

Here are the first photos of the fuselage. Just getting started good.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bucker Jungmeister
 

Sure you won't build one for me???????;) Looks good.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Here are a few progress photos. All pull pull guide tubes have been installed. Radio installation in fuse is complete. The Sachs 4.2 installation is complete along with cowl installation. I'll build the landing gear next. The fusalage as you see it weighs 7.5 lbs. I'm shooting for 25 lbs or less.

Gerwin try again. If you want to upload images go to the target to the bottom and left of the reply text box.

AJF--2 what with building a full scale Spacewalker II and honeydoos, I'm surprised that I've gotten this far with the Jungmeister.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

I have a local who is trying to sell me the kit he purchased a while back. He knows I love a Jungman/Jungmister ever since the days of my Goldberg. Here is a picture of my Pilot Jungman built by a buddy of mine for me. I see where Gary used a LOT of the Pilot designs in the frame work and wing design. In the bones it looked just like mine. I went overkill with a lot of stuff and on mine it came out way too heavy and overpowered. Still flew great, but since the flying wires are functional they were breaking every flight it got to be a big hassel to re-engineer. Boy what I would give to do it all over again. I will keep following the progress of yours and am looking for some finished pictures soon.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Those poor ARF guys just don't have any idea what they are missing. Beautiful.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

That's a very nice looking plane. As I recall though, the Jungman was a two seater. The only Jungmeister that I've seen up close and personal was at a local airshow. It had a flat four type engine.

Fwman1, I have never had an ARF and I don't have anything against them especially because I think they came along at the right time to save the hobby. That being said, a full 50% of the enjoyment of R/C for me has been building. I really enjoy working with my hands and creating. I've been building models since I was 10 years old and I'm 61 now and retired. People are so busy now that there is no time to build. That is very unfortunate because they are missing a really fun part of the hobby. I predict that within 10 years you may not see a balsa/ply kit on the market.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hi Ken,

You Jungmeister is coming along well.
There is no stopping you once you have started !!

I wish I had more time to dedicate to building! One day !!!

I agree - the ARFs came along because of a need in a busy society where everyone is looking for an instant solution. Most hobby shops are already cutting down their selection of kits. It's a shame because modellers miss out on the thrill of creating something and then seeing their own handy work fly.

Best regards

Ari

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hi Ari, thanks for the comments. I was able to finish building the landing gear this weekend. It and the 6"wheels added 2 1/2 lbs to the model. I don't really know a practical way around this weight gain. I still have to add the filler balsa and ribs to the sides of the gear and add the wheel fenders.

RE: It's TOUGH to beat the Jungmeister...!
 

Dear Big_Bird:

The PIPE Here again...and since I've got a scratchbuilt "smallish" one, all of 42 inch wingspan, MYSELF...

http://www.biplanes.de/images/daves_...abipe_port.jpg

http://www.biplanes.de/images/daves_...babipe_top.jpg

http://www.biplanes.de/images/daves_.../fot_ora_1.jpg

http://www.biplanes.de/images/daves_.../fot_ora_3.jpg

...dedicated to my LOVE of the popular music from that Scandinavian group of the 1970s, ABBA, I've had some "stick'n'KNOB" time flying my 1/6th scale one back around 1982 through 1984, built from the plan set drawn up by Gordon Whitehead in the January 1982 issue of RCM!

It IS in need of a WHOLE LOT of work to get IT flying again these days...I DO have a brand new (and ALL broken-in) Saito 30 four stroke for it to fly with...and I've also got a copy (also from RCM) of the plan set for the Dave Platt designed quarter scale Jungmeister, which I'm intending to build starting in the winter of 2004-2005 for Saito 150 power-and IT will get this same "ABBABIPE" color scheme as the small one has-but perhaps with images of Anna, Björn, Benny and Frida (the members of ABBA) on the bigger one, done up as decals with a new Epson color printer I'm hoping to get next fall...even though the Stylus Photo 2200 one that I NEED is a whopping $700!

That small Jungmeister of mine weighed in at just about 4 lbs, and with only some 450 square inches of wing area that is NOT a plane one can just "horse off" the ground! It DEMANDED to be allowed to take off as IT wanted...just a TOUCH of up elevator after the tail rose off the ground for about a couple of seconds...and after it got skywards with a 'few mistakes' of altitude under its maingear, it was time for some snap rollin', spinnin' and split-Essin' and loopin' FUN!

I WILL admit it WAS a bit underpowered with the HB 25 two stroke engine it USED to have on its nose...which could ONLY spin about a 9 x 4 prop trying to send thrust past a 5-1/4 inch rear diameter ring cowl...but now, with the Saito 30 available, and with that small Saito four stroke tested at 9500 RPM with a Zinger 11 x 4 prop on my test stand last year, the 11 inch prop gives me a good 75% MORE prop disc area outside the rear cowl's diameter than the small 9 inch prop did, and even though I HAVE to stick with using no HIGHER than a four inch pitch prop in ANY diameter on the plane (any HIGHER pitch on the prop and it comes in as FAST as a cruise MISSLE http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/otn/shocked/eek.gif on landing!) that extra prop disc AREA should make the old small one really "sparkle" when I can finally get the TIME to work on it...perhaps during the worst of the heat and HUMIDITY http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/sa...inted_anim.gif of this summer up in New England, when I CANNOT fly anyway, I can get SOME work done on it...a lot of OIL SOAKED wood to clean up in ITS structure!

Now a ONE THIRD scale Jungmeister with, perhaps IF appropriate, a Robart R780 or Seidel ST-770 seven cylinder radial four stroke engine in its nose......now THAT would be a BLAST to have airshow smoke to use with in maneuvers...and it would still be in the ABBABIPE livery, of course...!!!!!!!!!!

There's some NICE photos of various Bucker aircraft, right from a museum in Germany that specializes in that firm's aircraft at http://www.buecker-museum.de/index.htm ...and of course there's my German Email buddy's webpage at http://www.biplanes.de/home_engl.shtml ...click on the "Airshows" button to see some Bücker aircraft as they look these days, that my buddy got some photos of at airshows near him in Germany...a good number of them!

SOMEDAY I'll be able to get my small one in the process of oil removal and repair once more...just NOT enough time right now to be able to, though!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE! ;)

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

What changes would you make to the pilot kit? I have one waiting to be built, so I am interested in any improvemants.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

The best way is to build it by the plans but put hard reinforced hardpoints everywhere the flying wires attach-- and I would make the wings one piece (I ended up doing this anyway--but I have a trailer, too). At 84" it is not that bad. But most significantly, I would stay with a Moki 1.8 or may 2.1. I did a lot of beefing up the front area to support my Taurus 3.7--then I had to move it out to get the engine past the front of the cowl which meant mounting the servos in the back of the plane for CG purposes and then by the time I added a heavy covering and vinyl graphics and smoke I was in the 25 lb range. Funny part is that it still flew great-I wend deadstick once and with the flat bottom wing it still floated forever-I just had the flying wire issue that I could not get resolved.

Bottom line--

1-forget the reinforcment
2-use a large glow engine--(power is not an issue-this is not a 3D beast)
3-use Ultracoat for covering
4-keep it light and you will be suprised at how easy it is to fly

--also-hey Pipe--let me guess-- the pictures are from the 70s also, right? (Boy I love nostalgia)

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Ken;

Thanks for the photos. I bought the 1/4 scale version of the plans that you are using. Still haven't started the project yet. I did scratch build an Ultimate and I am just about done with a scratch built Christen Eagle.

So very soon I will need another bipe to build.

thans for the building pictrues.

tonyc

AJF--2;
I fly Moki, it sounds to me like I bought the wrong size plans, if you think the Moki will fly the 1/3 scale that well I think I may have to scale up my plans. This isn't a problem, I just hate to buy the wrong size plans and then change them.

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. Now I just have to find the time to get to the kit!

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hey Pipe, it seems we both have somethings in common. I also love Jugmeisters and certain Scandanavian rock and roll. BTW nice lookin little Jujmeister.

Mark Shuman

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

More Progress.....

The first photo shows the method that I used to properly position the upper wing center section prior to building the cabane struts. Make the frame over the plans and the top wing will have the proper -1 degree incidence with respect to 0 incidence on the bottom wing.

The next photo shows the center wing braces that are on the full scale but not on the plans.

The next photo shows the muffler outlet. I'll build a dummy engine exhaust that will fit below the cowl.

The last photo shows the routing of the pull pull red housings. The yellow inner tube will act like a sliding bearing for the Kevlar cable.

Latest estimate is 28#. What you see here weighs 20#.

How do you like the night shots? This way the back ground does not look cluttered.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Ken,
Thanks again for helping me out on the pics of your plans. For those of you out there that don't know, the Gary Allen Jungmeister 1/4 plans are really messed up! The 1/3 and 1/4 scale plans are very different and the 1/4's are missing the bottom center wing section. M.A.N. is supposed to be fixing them sometime. Anyways, here is a pic of my 1/4 scale Jungmeister.

Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hi Jay. You mentioned the 1/4 scale plans are messed up. Is their any other problems with them besides the bottom center section and do you know when that will be fixed? I have their short kit on the way. Thanks, Jim

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Jim,
As I am working my way through the plans as I build, I've been updating my master copy of plans. So far, off the top of my head, the dihedral templates are also missing, some of the formers are mislabeled, the wing fairings aren't documented and a bunch of the wood sizes aren't right. They were sized for the 1/3 and the draftsman that scaled it down to 1/4 never changed them (i.e. from 1/4 sq spruce to 3/8 sq spruce etc...). If you want I can start to go through my plans and make a formal list of what all is jacked up. The biggest problem in the plans is that most stuff simply isn't labeled.

Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Oops, sorry, I meant from 1/4 sq spruce to 3/16 sq spruce [:@]

Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Thanks Jay. I received the box today and will checkn it out tonight. Jim

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Speaking of problems with the 1/4 scale plans! As I've been working on finishing up the fuse, I've noticed that the formers aren't sized right from F-2 all the way to F-10. I've had to recut and resize about half of them because they were either too narrow for the fuse, too tall or too short! A guy at MAN said they were going to pull the plans but that was like a month ago and they are still there!

Hey Big_Bird, if you're still following this thread, if you've got any detailed pictures of your tail wheel setup I would love to see them. I'm still debating on how to make mine steerable. Any thoughts anyone? I don't want to use a pull-pull spring from the rudder because it won't look too hot. I'm thinking about running another server and push rod and doing it that way. Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,
Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Howdy Jay, yes I still follow. I just haven't had much progress lately to show.

The first photo shows the pull-pull tiller arm mounted on the tailwheel shaft. I drilled a hardwood block for the wire and used the 3/32" wire as specified. I thought about going to 1/8" but didn't.

The second photo shows the 2 1/8" lite ply plates on the bottom for servicing the tailwheel, adding tail weight, etc.

The third photo shows the pull-pull servos behind the pilots seat. The tailwheel Kevlar cables are attached to the rudder servo. The rudder cables will be added later.

The fourth photo shows the cowl with dummy engine. I made the cowl look like the full scale 2 piece cowl. I glued a piece of 1/64" by 1/8" ply to the side of the cowl. I then added Bondo spotting putty above the ply. After it was dry, I sanded it flush with the ply and then added the clips.

Your fuselage is really looking good.

By the way, I made these photos with my new Olympus C750 Ultra Zoom digital.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Here are 3 progress photos.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Big_Bird,
She's looking great! Couple of questions for you...What covering did you use? Also I see you put in the zipper in the back of the fuse...very cool. If it was fabric, how did you bond the zipper to the covering? Finally, did you paint F1 to F2? The curvature is really compound and it doesn't appear as though it would cover well with covering at all. I'll have some pics of mine in the next week or so...the fuse it getting finished shortly. Thanks for the info and keep up the great work!

Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Hi Jay,

I used the 5 meter rolls of Solartex #588 yellow from Balsa USA. I'll spray clear Rustoleum over the fabric after I'm finished. The only paint that I'll use on the Solartex is black and red. The two zippers are nylon types. I used medium CA to bond them to the fabric and then ironed on Solartex pinking tape. Of course, they are non functional.

The upper curve between F1 & F2 is pretty extreme. I used two pieces of fabric across the fuse to cover this area and a third piece back to the cockpit.

I'll look forward to the photos.

Here is a photo of my instrument panel that I recently completed.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Ken,
Nice instrument panel. I hear the Solartex is nice stuff to work with. Not sure what I'm gonna use yet though. Here's a couple of updated shots of my 1/4 scale Jungmeister. I've got the landing gear pretty much done (not in photos) but didn't take a pic of it. Man was that ever fun to make! [:@]

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Jay, the Jungie looks great. Can't tell it from the larger one.

I finally finished one wing. I took the photo about 5 minutes ago so the true color doesn't come through (sunset). I weighed it and it came out to be 1.25 lbs with the servo installed.

I have a goal of getting it in the air sometime in August so that I can take it to Bomber Field in September.

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Ok, I'm starting to get really mad! I just finished my stab, fin, rudder and elevators. Much to my extreme irritation, the freaking elevators aren't the same size on the plans! One is about 1/8" longer than the other! These plans for the 1/4 scale Jungmeister are really starting to kill me! [:@] Here's a pic of them...look and you can see. And no, it's not because I'm a crappy builder ;) Take a look at these pics. I tell ya...they draftsman that wrote up these plans was smoking crack!

Love,
Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Simmer down Jay. Lean back and drink a cool one.;) Up to this point you have done a terrific job. I looked at the photos over and over. Without a scale I can't see the difference. You could 1) leave it alone because no one will notice 1/8" or 2) take a sanding block and round off the end of the long one to match the short one. I have found so many goofs on plans that I have built from. And these were from major designers. As long as their mistake is correctable by me, I don't usually don't give it a second thought and just fix it.

"Love,
Jay" ?

Is there something that I've missed here?

Ken

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Ken,
It's just irritating, especially since the elevators are identical...they should have just flipped them over rather than redrawn it. It would just be nice to get some plans with fewer than 60 errors ;) All the problems can be overcome, it just adds to the time and frustration. As of now, I'm starting to cut ribs out. and the landing gear is almost completed. I'll upload some more shots after the bottom center wing is done w/ the gear. Probably in another week or so. I was just joking around about the love thing ;)

Jay

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
 

Jay,

I finished the last wing panel today. I've always hated building wings. They are boring but I haven't found out how to get along without them.

Before I cover them I will finish out the rigging and get that out of the way. Hopefully I'll get to fly it in about 3 weeks.

Ken