Glow to Electric Conversions Discuss glow/gas conversion to electric here.

Super Pacer Project

Reply

Old 03-24-2012, 05:33 PM
  #1  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Super Pacer Project

Just wanted to show off my scratch build project of a glow to electric Super Pacer. All it needs is fuse finishing and electronics installed. It is e-retract equipt and weighs right at 3lbs. Spent more time on theretractsthen framing, but that was my fault.

I was going to paint the fuse Navy blue, but my wife liked the white of the primer latex undercoat, so I will need to change the trim scheme. The turtle deck and wing tips (except for the ply end tips) is blue foam. I will be using LS-2 as an undercoat. Did not need to use the latex undercoat, but it will result in using less of the expensive LS-2.

Power is aLightning25 with 3s 2200ma.

SpaCat


Attachments
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2012, 07:36 PM
  #2  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

I have the plane to build this plane. I have spent many gallons of fuel way back when with a Super Pacer, K&B 25, Kraft radio.

I have started a scratch build of the Mach None, the kissing cousin to the 1/2A pacer.

Looks good.

Let us know how it flies!!!


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2012, 08:59 PM
  #3  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

This is my 2nd Super Pacer, the first one also had a Kraft radio like yours. I think it was powered by an OS 25, but it could have been a K&B, just can't remember, since I owned both engines at that time. It was Goldberg retract equipt.

I am thnking of a Mach None for park flying to replace my destroyed Formosa, but I need to finish the SP and also a framed up Dirty Birdy 20 (Tweety Bird). Are you using foam wings or built up? What are you going to power it with?

I hope to have the SP in the air next weekend and will post how it flies.

SpadCat

SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 08:22 AM
  #4  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

I will cut my own foam cores then sheet with balsa. Typical balsa slab sides with lightning holes.

I am using an exceed 2205 3400kv motor with a 6x4 apc prop and a 1700 3s battery.

http://www.hobbypartz.com/86ma68-2205-3400kv.html

The old Ace R/C planes just fly so well they are hard to not build a couple of each.


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 06:24 PM
  #5  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

Yes, my bro had an Ace Allstar Bipe, and I had a Honker Bipe, and the Allstar just plain out-performed the Honker. Just a better all around flyer.

I have foam cutting equipment, so it would not be a problem cutting out wing cores.

SpadCat
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 06:26 PM
  #6  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

The E-Super Pacer is finished but not done....just need some color trim work on the fuse and was hoping to fly her later this afternoon, but it is very windy.

Weight came out at 3 lbs 3 oz and CG is just a hair behind the recommend forward point with the battery at the forward point in the compartment and 2 inches remaining to the rear so I can pull the CG a little more aft if needed. I was aiming at an AUW of 3 lbs, so I am very pleased at the weight as I put no effort into weight reduction and just relied on my original calculations with the electronics being much lighter than nitro and vintage radio gear and mechanical retracts.

I was concern with the clearance of the 10" prop, but I think it will be ok.

I learned a lot about painting mixed materials of balsa/foam. What time and effort I saved in making thecanopyand wingtips out of foam, I lost in painting prep. Next time it will be a lot easier and the results will be better. I tried the LS system, but ended sanding most of it off. Nothing against the system, but there is a learning curve and at 30 bucks for 8 ozs is a lot of dollars to just experiment with (along with a heck of a lot of work in removal), but I see the possibilities with the system and am confident I can work out the proper application technique for a great finish.

I am not sure I like the red tips, the other side is all white and will change one side or the other. The red is only tape.

Below are a couple of photos and will report on the maiden flight, hopefully soon.

Site will not let me load a 2nd photo. Will do that in the next post.

SpadCat


Attachments
http://www.rcuniverse.com/highslide/graphics/zoomin.cur), pointer; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; ">
Click for full
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:58 AM
  #7  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,188
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

SC,

What's the LS system!?

You mentioned you had it propped with an 11x7 but were going down in pitch. Are you going to try 11x6 & 11x5's?

I'd be interested in knowing what numbers you get: rpm, amps, power.

I think my motor (a Rimfire) is rated up to 700W which would be over 200W per pound and that at 40 oz all up uncovered...[X(]

David
doxilia is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 07:30 AM
  #8  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

Looks good. I have had issues trying to paint mixed materials too. Way back when, before all of the high dollar fancy stuff came out. I used titebond diluted 50% with water and silkspan to cover the foam and give a good surface to paint. It is sort of a poor mans glassing. Also gives the foam a little bit tougher skin then just primer and paint.

How soon until the maiden flight?


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 05:46 PM
  #9  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

doxilia, Your SP is going to be a rocket with 3D capabilities....Mine can climb nearly straight up in a hurry and it weighs around 11 oz more and with only 500w.

I must have meant a 10" prop. I have a detailed discription (except for RPM) over at the Tweety Birdy thread...maybe I should move that over here.

The LS system is from WOW airplanes. He has a vid.


ORIGINAL: doxilia

SC,

What's the LS system!?

You mentioned you had it propped with an 11x7 but were going down in pitch. Are you going to try 11x6 & 11x5's?

I'd be interested in knowing what numbers you get: rpm, amps, power.

I think my motor (a Rimfire) is rated up to 700W which would be over 200W per pound and that at 40 oz all up uncovered...[X(]

David
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 05:49 PM
  #10  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project


ORIGINAL: blvdbuzzard

Looks good. I have had issues trying to paint mixed materials too. Way back when, before all of the high dollar fancy stuff came out. I used titebond diluted 50% with water and silkspan to cover the foam and give a good surface to paint. It is sort of a poor mans glassing. Also gives the foam a little bit tougher skin then just primer and paint.

How soon until the maiden flight?


Buzz.

Blvdbuzzard, I thought about that technique, as I used to use silkspan also. Next time I will.

SpadCat

SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 05:54 PM
  #11  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

Here is the full maiden flight report.



Super Pacer Maiden Flight Report!

I decided to stick with the 10x7SF, as the motor is rated for a max of 45 amps, and I can trim the throttle down to that and there is still plenty of power. In fact, it does not stay at 50amps for more than a few seconds and drops down fairly rapidly anyway, so if I limit throttle there should not be a problem. Please educate me if there is.

Now, back to the flight report. Take off was straight and true and the SP jumped into the air in less then 50', could have been sooner, but did not want to take any changes. Climb out was at a very steepangle, and reduced power then added a few clicks of down elevator. Once into level flight, I needed a couple of clicks of right aileron. I planned on not retracting the gear for the first two flights and went around testing loops which at full elevator the SP would snap at the top, so need to reduce the throw a little bit. Power on snaps were effortless. Rolls were quite fast, but could be a tad faster for my tastes and recovery from rolls and snaps were almost instantaneous. I have 50% exp on elevator and aileron. This ship tracks beautifully, and inverted flight took just a touch of down elevator. Within a very short time, I was feeling like I was flying an old friend. She was solid and stable, but very nimble. No bad habits of any sort. Reduced power and dropped into the pattern to land right to left on runway 27 (the sun was low to the West). The SP slowed down very nicely and I greased the landing. My 6 year old grandson said "nice landing, Grampa!" (he has been flying RC for 2 years, and does quite well). This plane will make you look good! Roll out was solid and straight with no ground looping tendancies and it taxis like a tri-gear. Very easy. I was concerned with prop clearance, but that is a non-issue. No problem at all.

Checked the motor and battery and much to my surprise, both were not hot, or at least I did not get a blister on the finger tip(the ambient temp was 85 degrees). Plugged in a new pack, set the time for 6 minutes again then took off. Now I started doing low high speed runs and this plane is pretty fast with gear down. I just relaxed and had fun doing the normal loops, rolls, high speed passes, etc. then brought her around for the 2nd landing. If the sun was not where it was, I would have done touch and goes. Another greaser and taxi back for inspection and new lipo pack. Everthing checked out including the retracts, then back in the air. This time after a couple of high speed passes, I sucked up the gear and it was like she went "on the pipe"! Then it got real fun. Felt more like a Quickee now. Did a couple of split S manuevers, screamed across the runway then pulled back to vertical, reduced power out of WEP then into a square loop. This plane is FUN! Circled around for a landing and taxied back to the pit and shut down.

Well, you guys know the feeling. WOW, LOVE THIS AIRPLANE! The only thing missing was the sound of a piped nitro engine screaming.


If I end up trashing the 25 motor, I will install a Lightning 32 and go 4 cell, then I can achieve this level of performance with less strain on the motor (if there is strain).

Spad "Happy" Cat

SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 08:15 PM
  #12  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

Sounds like a good maiden flight.

I have always loved the old Ace planes because they are "FUN" to fly. They were pretty easy to build, had good flight envelopes, would fly fast yet slow down to a crawl. Did not cost an arm and a leg. Easy to build too. Just fun from start to finish.

Nice to hear about your grand son. I soloed when I was 6 with a wanderer 72. Then I soloed power when I was 9. I had to be able to fuel it, start it, give a little tuning, taxi, lift off, fly a couple circuits, land and taxi back. Sounds like he is on his way to being a pilot.

After I have my Mach None in the air, I am going to build a second one with GWS micro retracts, flap/air breaks like the Curare. I may still keep it under 1 1/2 pounds with the light weight gear.


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 09:54 PM
  #13  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

Soloing is no easy task for someone that young....Good Job! The Wanderer was what I used to train my son (father of the grandson) with. I had him on my lap with a Kraft transmitter in his hands when he could barely walk. Eventually, I installed a power podon it and have a NIB Wanderer right now.

My grandson has an Easy Star and EZ Trainer foamies which he flies quite well. He hasn't landed the Easy Star yet, but he routinely lands the EZ Trainer. He is begging me to put wheels on it so that he can do a "real" take off and landing. He can hand launch it himself and is successful most of the time. Probably the best trainer I have ever trained anyone with.

Ace had a fine reputation and my first hi performance kit was a Super Pacer powered by a K&B or OS (had both and can't remember which one I used) and was Goldberg retract equipt. Lost it doing fast rolls low to the ground.

This latest Super Pacer I scratch built and selected lighter balsa, so along with the electronics and power system, it came out much lighter then my kit built one.

Good luck with your Mach None. Another fine flying Ace airplane. I am thinking of building that or the Pacer for park flying to replace the Formosa.

SpadCat






SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 11:29 AM
  #14  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

doxiia, I found a nick at the tip of the 10x7SF so I trimmed 1/4" off each blade and rebalanced it and the wattage dropped down to 430 and 42amps. This is perfect. I will get an rpm check and post the numbers.

SpadCat
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 05:46 PM
  #15  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

I still have a Wanderer from 20 plus years ago. It has more hours in the air then I care to think about. It is battered and bruised but still flies well. I used a Kraft 4 channel radio too. That thing had some serious range to it. It had a (4) sub "C" flight battery.

I have to laugh pretty hard when i read threads about building an ARF!!! What? You put a few pieces together to assemble an ARF. Most people would not and could not scratch build anything. You did a great job on your plane. I am hopeful to getting parts cut and core cut this weekend. If Mach None #1 goes well, then I will do a 6 channel version. I will add rudder, retracts and flap/breaks. That should look really well.

Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #16  
SpadCat
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project


ORIGINAL: blvdbuzzard

I still have a Wanderer from 20 plus years ago. It has more hours in the air then I care to think about. It is battered and bruised but still flies well. I used a Kraft 4 channel radio too. That thing had some serious range to it. It had a (4) sub "C" flight battery.

I have to laugh pretty hard when i read threads about building an ARF!!! What? You put a few pieces together to assemble an ARF. Most people would not and could not scratch build anything. You did a great job on your plane. I am hopeful to getting parts cut and core cut this weekend. If Mach None #1 goes well, then I will do a 6 channel version. I will add rudder, retracts and flap/breaks. That should look really well.

Buzz.

Sub C NI-Cads was what I used in an Aquila sailplane (presently I have a Lipo pack in it, but it needs ballast now). I had a World Engines 6 ch transmitter, and it was 12v, so I installed a jack in the back of it and jumpered it over to my car battery. We use to fly at a park that was up in the mountains above San Jose where we would hi-start the planes and either thermal or slope soar, depending on conditions. I am not sure what our longest flights were, but they were several hours, at least. Brought reclining lawn chairs and some beer and, well that was living!


I know what you mean about ARFs. I am not against them per se as my first full house RC ship was a Lanier Comet II, but I have been building both kits and and scratch buidling since I was pre-teen. The latest ARF I bought was a Lil-Stinker Pitts Special last Christmas...it was just too pretty to pass up and at a great price, plus it looks just like the plastic Cox .020 powered ukie my parents bought me 50 years ago, so I had to get it.

If you do a build thread on the Mach None, let me know and I will follow it. What is the difference between the Mach None and the Pacer? They look pretty close to me, but I have not seen either one in person.

SpadCat
SpadCat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 05:35 PM
  #17  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Super Pacer Project

The Mach None and Pacer are pretty much the same plane. There are very small changes. They both used the Ace foam wings, yet the tails are a touch different. The Pacer has the dorsal fin full length like the Super Pacer. They flew the same to me.

I have the plans for the Pacer, Mach None, GLH, Ace All Star, Littlest Stik. I would like to have the rest.


I need to get a few things done in the garage before I can start building again.


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:32 PM
  #18  
pacoflyer
My Feedback: (23)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: east amherst , NY
Posts: 579
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I might have one of these kits for sale if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
paul
pacoflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service