Greg Covey

Hi,

I am reviewing the new 150-size P-51D Mustang ARF from Hangar 9 available at [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN4050]Horizon Hobby[/link]. Instead of using the Saito FA-220A 4-stroke engine or Evolution 35GT2 gas engine, I'll be converting this classic warbird to electric power with an E-flite [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM4160A]Power 160[/link] brushless outrunner motor.

Key Features:[ul][*] Giant-Scale legal[*] Improved heavy-duty UltraTract metal retracts[*] Sport aerobatic flying characteristics[*] Scale flaps for excellent slow-speed handling[*] Remarkable scale detail including bombs[*] Prepainted aluminum spinner[*] Accurate UltraCote trim scheme[/ul]
Hangar 9’s 80-inch giant-scale-legal P-51D Mustang 150 ARF is a full-throttle scale flying experience perfectly suited for large-scale modelers. The model features factory-installed UltraTract metal retracts, scale flaps, authentic UltraCote trim scheme and other prototypical details. The level of exceptional scale detail Hangar 9® has built into the P-51D is virtually without equal. From the scale display 4-blade prop and prepainted aluminum spinner all the way to the molded bombs, Hangar 9 has gone the extra mile to produce a World War II fighter that looks as if it really could be raiding Japanese forces in the Pacific theater.

Specifications:[ul][*] Wing Span: 80 in (2032mm)[*] Overall Length: 68.25 in with spinner[*] Wing Area: 1100 sq in (71 sq dm)[*] Wing Loading: 32.7 ounces per square foot[*] Flying Weight: 15.62 lbs[*] Engine Size: 1.20-2.10 2-stroke[*] Engine Size: 1.2-2.20 4-stroke[*] Engine Size: 23-26cc gas[*] Motor Size: 2500-3000 watts[*] Radio: 6-channel[*] Servos: 10 Servos, 8 standard high torque (54 oz/in or more), 2 low profile, hi-torque (JRPS791) retract servos[*] Wing Loading: 32.7 ounces per square foot[*] Prop Size: 16 x 8 - 18 x 8[*] Spinner Size: 5 inch P-51 Spinner[*] Hardware Included, Flaps, Retracts[/ul]

normgoyer

As usual they screw up the landing gear, not even close.

good company, good airplane but designers who design the airplane to match the available retracts and spoil the whole scale look. Norm

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

Greg,

I'm 40% of the way through the constuction and conversion of this model, I was planning a one week project, and it goes together just as easy as the smaller Hangar 9 kits. It also feels very light for the size. My plan is for the Axi 5330 and the 90 amp Jeti which I bought over a year ago and was waited to grow into. We are going away for a few days, so if you get hopping in this project, you can really make some progress.

I'm really happy that you are doing a review, now, I can just sit back, wait for you to catch up. I can wait for you to design the power, wait for you to test fly the completed project, then, quickly post a build thread on another hobby site (where I have attracted a huge following due to my great crash videos of big twin conversions) and take credit for your engineering.

I don't know if you have any connection to this site, but, you might also post a build thread and review in RCGroups.com, the conversion forum. Nothing wrong with more exposure. My VQWarbirds P-61 build has almost 10,000 hits, and the KMP B-25 is close behind.

Hi Norm,

If you don't like the scale landing gear design of this Mustang, you should see the Hangar 9 .60 size. I just flew mine last week for the first time and everybody laughed at the stock retracts, the wire wobbled while in taxi mode and it looked like a sissy trainer instead of a WWII fighter. However, once in the air it looked good. Probably the same with this 150 size.


Al

normgoyer

Hi Al, Being a pilot you know that one of very few identification points of a full scale bird is the landing gear, along with the canopy and cowling. I fully realize why they looik like this but it is obvious that they take extreme care in the outline of the aircraft with the LG being the exception. But a huge percentage of photos of scale aircraft are taken on the ground as it is far easier than in the air and the gear sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb. I usually have the owner hold the plane up in a 30 degree turn and then photoshop out what I don't want and end up with a nice similuatede flying shot with ugly gear out of sight. Had a chance to go SNJ-4 flying a bit ago out of San Diego area. Terrorized the sailboats in the Pacific near Torry Pines for about 30 mins. Very juvenile, very immature but boy it was sure fun., Norm

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Al, So this is why you didn't build the P38 isn't it?

opencourse

Not to get away from the electric idea, but I have a great running Super Tiger S-3000 sitting on the shelf. I have been considering this 150 size Mustang for it's new home. Yes, the 4 stroke sounds great and I also have a new Saito 2.20 sitting here, but I think the strong 2 stroke could do a great job chasing other warbirds around the sky. The guys in my club are basically "giant warbird hat rodders" Anybody have any comments on the plane's handling? Any comments would be welcome.
Howard

stoneb1b

I would be interested to see what in-flight speed you get with the AXI or E-Flite setup.

When running the numbers it appears that neither will be particularly fast (due to the very low Kv motors).

Both of these motors seem to be suited to high thrust low speed applications (like 3D).

Having a Stang that jumps off the runway and climbs vertically isn't exactly what I'd be looking for.

I'd want a Stang to carry the mail on high speed passes!

GerKonig

That is a very interesting question, since the speed of the full size was about 437 top and 275 cruise, a scale speed would be (for a 1/5 scale model) 72 mph and 45 mph respectively (If my math is right).

Gerry

Greg Covey

Hi all,

It's not surprising that many people have a real passion for the P-51D as it became the most widely produced variant of the Mustang. My review, however, will focus more on the Hangar 9 product itself and the conversion to electric power rather than scale authenticity. My plans are to use the stock retracts but add a retractable tailwheel and perhaps make the bombs drop-able from the air. The review will also highlight my use of the new Spektrum DX7 "pin-free" Spread Spectrum radio system. With that in mind...adding a few scale hop-ups will be fun!

Al,

The E-flite Power 160 motor is the same size as the AXI 5330 motor...including the two prop adapters. All the mounting hardware and mating connectors come with the motor.

My plan is to use a 12s LiPo supply on a Castle Creations [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=CSEPHX110HV]Phoenix HV-110[/link] ESC. The 12s voltage should supply good speed on the P-51D with a 4-blade prop. The power level is around 3000 watts which will provide an awesome 187w/lb! Feel free to post your findings or concerns.

Howard,

Klaus Ronge has a nice review on the P-51D in the March issue of Model Airplane News. His comment about not really needing the flaps confirms my initial expectation and makes me think more about using those resources for dropping bombs.

normgoyer

Hi Greg, I have an AXi 5330 and it is a barnburner, it's going in a 1/4 scale Super Cub on floats, I would use the flaps, they will slow the plane down change the attitude to a be in a better flare position, I would have hated to land a full scale warbird of any kind without flaps unless I had a 2 miles runway. Norm

mention the lousy landing gear scale

opencourse

Greg:
Thanks for the input re: bombs vs flaps. We have plenty of roll out on the runway and this presents a great idea.
Howard

Greg Covey

Norm,

I haven't made a final decision on the flaps yet but I appreciate your input. I'll consider adding the gear scale issue to my "MISSES" list. Once I get to that area of the assembly, I'll look for some options to improve the look.

On my .60-size Hangar 9 Corsair, I replaced the wire mains with some Robart struts and it not only eliminated the landing bounce but improved the look on the ground.

Greg Covey

My radio system in the P-51D will be the Spektrum DX7. The Spectrum DX7 is a full-range, full-performance Spread Spectrum radio system that can fly anything from small electrics, to gas-powered IMAC planes, to turbine jet models, without regard to frequencies or available pins. The packaging and 108 page manual are top notch! Based upon the JR 7202 midrange sport radio, the 20-model DX7 transmitter is full featured. It has all the programming capabilities to satisfy the demands of the majority of R/C modelers.

The DX7 is packed with new features like ServoSync (lower latency), ModelMatch (prevents flying wrong model), and is compatible with the existing AR6000 receivers. The DX7 package (SPM2710) comes with four powerful 72oz/in DS821 Digital Sport Servos, a 1500mAh NiMH transmitter battery, 4.8v 1100mAh NiCD receiver battery, Tx/Rx dual wall charger, and On/Off switch harness.

Why use the DX7?[ul][*] Full Range Performance[*] Glitch-Free / Freq. Pin-Free[*] Fastest Response (lowest latency)[*] Tested in Electrics, IMAC, and Turbines
[/ul]
My day job as an Engineer has provided me with several decades of experience with radio communications and spread spectrum technology. Since we were already utilizing the benefits of spread spectrum techniques in military and commercial applications, I knew that someday it would revolutionize the consumer market and find its niche in the R/C industry. As a result, I was less apprehensive about trying the DX7 in an expensive application than others in my area have been. My friend is also building a Bob Violet Models (BVM) turbine jet so we have kept up to date on the DX7 testing through Horizon Hobby representatives, David Shulman (of BVM), and the Superman Jet Rally where the DX7 was first seen in jet use. In addition to many successful IMAC giant scale applications, glow and electric helicopter applications, and intense indoor applications where many transmitters operate within a few feet of each other (e.g. JR and Great Planes E-fests), I have not seen or heard of any interference issues.

While the original DX6 was geared toward smaller electrics and parkflyers with a slightly limited range and noticeable latency issues, the DX7 provides full performance through increased range, redundant dual-channel receivers, and increased system speed. The reduced latency (time from stick movement to servo movement) is now the fastest response time of any other 72MHz PCM radio on the market.

Instead of requiring a frequency pin to ensure that no one else interferes with your radio, the DX7 scans all 80 channels at 2.4GHz, finds two that are free, and locks onto them before enabling the transmitter. The receiver, which was uniquely “bound� to the transmitter during the setup procedure, is turned on first and scans all 80 frequencies as well waiting to hear the correct binding code (unique for each DX7 transmitter) in the two channels selected by the transmitter. In this manner, your DX7 transmitter cannot interfere with other radios. Equally important, other DX7 radios cannot interfere with your radio system.

In addition to worry-free automated channel selection, the AR7000 receiver in the DX7 package has a second smaller receiver attached to a six inch extension cable. By placing the second receiver 2�-6� away from and adjacent (90 degrees opposite) to the main receiver, it can see a different RF environment that may still clearly “hear� the transmitter when the main receiver has a signal fade. Further, the 2.4GHz radio system is immune to car ignition noise and other RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) noises that are commonly created in a much lower frequency domain. The result of this so-called diversity reception has proven to be the most bullet-proof, glitch-free performance on the R/C market today. Spektrum also has longer extension cables available should you need to mount the two receivers farther apart for added convenience.

Just when you think the DX7 design is impressive enough, along come new and innovative features like ModelMatch and ServoSync. A personal pet peeve of mine is when I successfully launch a plane into the air and then realize I forgot to change the programmed model on the transmitter. The elevator, rudder, and throttle all worked fine on my ground test by I failed to notice that my ailerons were reversed. This scenario is quite painful and I have done it more than once. The ModelMatch feature in the DX7 embeds a unique code in the receiver during the binding process that remembers the user-programmable models name. If the wrong name is on the screen, the model’s controls simply will not respond. In addition to saving your pride, or plane, the ModelMatch feature can prevent stripped servo gears and broken linkages.

ServoSync is a new feature to the DX7 that re-sequences the data between the transmitter and receiver based upon the type of mixing you select. This ensures that the servos working together will receive their direction changes together resulting in a synchronized movement that allows the control surface to precisely follow the stick movement without delay. Unlike the latency seen in the earlier DX6 model, performance demanding pilots that use quick stick movements will absolutely love the ServoSync feature and low latency of the DX7.

My Hangar 9 P-51D will be well protected with the Spektrum DX7 radio system.

Fearless Freddie

Ok ,

I found Al , ................ Too quiet on RC Groups ...HEE HEE !

This is one of my future projects too , using the Eflite 160 also.

I'll be curious to see (GREG) how this plane lands without working flaps and how fast it will be. I have to agree with the other dude . Fast Mustang passes are MUST! A good Moki 210 will rip your head off as it passes by. Hope PWR 160 can produce simular speeds.

Greg Covey

As a comparison for a power reference, here is a video from my "Part 2" of the Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 review. It uses an AXI 5330/18 and a 20" prop on a 10S LiPo supply. The Kv of the Power 160 motor is 245 RPM/v so it is in between the 5330/18's 259 RPM/v and F3A's 235 RPM/v. The larger 33%, 97" span Edge 540 weighed 20lbs at the time and has much more drag than the lighter 16lb, 80" span P-51D. On a 12s LiPo supply weighing only 16lbs, it should be impressive!

[link=http://videoserver.rcuniverse.com/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/550/Edge540part2b.wmv]AXI-fied Edge 540 Aerobatics 7MB[/link]

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=550]33% Edge 540 Conversion - Part 2[/link]

Greg Covey

The assembly starts by attaching the ailerons and flaps.

To attach the ailerons, it is helpful to first drill 1/16" holes in the slots to aid the CA in wicking farther into the surfaces. I also used Dubro (#252) T-pins to keep the hinge centered when pressing it into place. The ailerons hinges were then glued with ZAP Thin CA.

The flaps were attached by gluing the supplied nylon hinges with epoxy. I first tested the fit and found one hole that wasn't drilled all the way. After drilling the opening longer, the hinges were glued with 5-minute epoxy. Note that the manual calls for using 30-minute to allow sufficient time, if needed.

Greg Covey

I decided to make a change on my receiver battery replacement. For my P-51D conversion, I will be replacing the 4.8v 1100mAh NiCD receiver battery with two [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ubec.htm]Ultimate BECs[/link] from Hobby Lobby. The so-called UBEC eliminates the need to keep a separate receiver battery charged as it takes power right from the main flight packs.

One UBEC will provide 6v to the receiver and servos. The second UBEC will provide 5v for the three retract servos. In this manner, the control surfaces will have the benefit of higher torque and speed from the 6v, 20 gram, UBEC and the added safety from the isolation of a retract jam. According to Horizon Hobby, the JR NES-791 Heavy Duty Low Profile Retract servos are meant for a 5v (or 4-cell) supply and may burn out when supplied by 6v.

Greg Covey

To my surprise (and elation), the prop adapters mated perfectly with the supplied spinner backplate. The E-flite Power 160 motor comes with 2 prop adapters so that the motor can be mounted on either side of a firewall. The adapters each have a 12mm prop shaft. One is meant to fit over the 8mm drive shaft and the other is meant to attach to the rotating can.

The supplied 5" spinner can be used with either the static prop display or the real operational prop. It must be cut to fit the blades so you need to decide which prop to use it for. At this time, I do not see spare spinners for sale at Horizon Hobby for this model so hopefully it will be added in the future.

Fearless Freddie

GreG,

I like this last idea of using the two HL ultimate BEC units. Smart move

Fred

Greg Covey

Although I didn't see it in the manual, I found two plastic machine gun pieces in the box. With some silver paint and 1/8" brass tubing, you can easily add a scale-looking hop-up to the P-51D without an airbrush.

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Greg:

Do you think a 10S configuration totalling 4000 mah will do it, or will it need something like 8,000 mah for a decent run time?

Also, if you have two seperate UBECs, you will also need two receivers packages, right?

Al

Greg Covey

Hi Al,

I would say that 4000mAh capacity would be ok...just near the minimum end of flight time. I am using 5000mAh (20C) packs. At this time, I cannot say if I am using a 10s or 12s supply until my initial power test is performed with a 16x8 3-blade prop. My suspicion is that I want a 17"-18" 3-4 blade prop...preferably on 12s for greater speed. I have a 3-blade 16x8 prop for testing already. I am finding it difficult to get a nice looking 4-blade prop so I am leaning toward my final prop choice to be a black Mejzlik hallow carbon 18x10 3-blade prop. Time will tell.

The separate UBECS only need one receiver. Although there are several ways to break out the retract servo supply lines, I plan to use a JR Matchbox for my 3 retract servos. In this manner, I can simply plug the retract servos into the 4-channel Matchbox, plug in the 5v UBEC output into the Aux. Batt. jack, and plug in the supplied extension cable (shown below) to channel 5 of my DX7 receiver. Note that the jumper plug with the red wire in the Aux. Batt. jack is removed when feeding external power to the servos instead of using power from the receiver.

Although the [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=JRPA900]JR Matchbox[/link] may cost more money, it is a convenient way to manage power routing and control surfaces using multiple servos. In this case, my control surface is all three retracts.

normgoyer

Hi Greg, aren't you a bit afraid of violating the Henry Ford Model T syndrome?

Old Henry said, "If it ain't on the car it can't screw up or fail."

Sounds like an awful lot of bits and pieces to test old Henry's ideas."
Norm, lover of Cubs for many reasons.

Greg Covey

Hi Norm,

On the contrary, I'm making my P-51D human-proof by removing ways in which the pilot can screw things up and maximizing performance at the same time.

Check out the three Matchboxes and dual 6v 10-amp regulators on my 33% Edge 540. Even with twin 10s LiPo packs for 6000 watts, I've never had a mishap. For the upcoming 2007 season, it has new 20C 5AH packs which drop 1-1/4 lbs off last year's 22.5lb flying weight.

After seeing a turbine-power BVM jet from the inside, nothing I can do to the P-51D is considered complicated.

normgoyer

Hi Greg, I guess I just doubt my own craftsmanship too much. I would never fly in a homebuilt that I had constructed for obvsious reasons. I am going to have start being more trustworthy of man and his products. My wife's loaded Buick Le Sabre seems to have less problems than my nothing in it complicated Karmann Ghia which requires lots of loving care. Norm