Glow to Electric Conversions Discuss glow/gas conversion to electric here.

Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

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Old 09-28-2004, 02:34 PM
  #1  
Greg Covey
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Default Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Hi,

I am converting the new Hangar 9 33% [link=http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=HAN1150]Edge 540[/link] high-performance aerobatic ARF to clean and quiet electric power.

Designed by TOC competitor [link=http://www.blaineaustin.com/mike_mcconville.htm]Mike McConville[/link], the new Edge 540 is constructed from durable, lightweight balsa and plywood, covered in genuine UltraCoteĀ® for an expert look, and includes a two-piece wing and stab that ensures convenient storage and easy transport to the flying field.

Mike's no compromise approach made the new Edge 540 a superior aerobatic performer, flying extremely well in both sequence and 3D-style aerobatics. The new Edge 540 is perhaps the lightest design ever of this size by Hangar 9 making it a good candidate for conversion to electric power.

Here are the Specifications:
[ul][*] Wing Span: 97 in[*] Length: 87.9 in[*] Wing Area: 1760 sq in[*] Glow Flying Weight: 22-24 lb[*] Engine Size: 62 - 80cc[*] Radio: 4 channels[*] Servos: 9
[/ul]
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:08 PM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

This review will combine several topics. First, reviewing the new Edge 540 will include my findings with the new ARF plane design from Hangar 9. Second, the write-up will show a unique conversion to electric power using a technique that is simple and cost effective. I will call it, "1/3 Scale at 1/3 Cost".

The new Edge 540 is meant to fly at around 22lbs with a [link=http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=ZENE62A&pc=ZENE62A]Zenoah G-62[/link] engine. The recommended G62 engine weighs about 5lbs and will turn a 22 x 10 prop at approximately 7200 rpm. The 24oz fuel tank is 1.5lbs for a total of 6.5lbs.

The [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/actro-40.htm]Actro 40[/link] motor weighs 19oz (lets say 1.25lbs) and the 30-cells NiCd needed to power it would weigh about 4lbs for a total of 5.25lbs. That's over a pound less than the glow weight without even using Lithium cells! My plan is to use a 10s2p configuration of the Kokam 2.1AH (20C) cells. This will reduce weight even further while delivering up to 84amps continuous current.

The Actro 40-4 looks like it can easily deliver power in the 1700 watt range with a current draw between 50-70amps. This could produce a power level in the 80-90 watts per pound using NiCd cells and even better using Lithium cells.

When you consider that no receiver battery is needed and there will be additional weight loss from no muffler or mount, it seems like a good start that could get optimized to over 100w/lb. and become a great aerobatic performer.

The Actro motors are top-notch! These German engineered and manufactured external rotor motors require no gearbox and are considered by many to be the very finest outrunners ever made. My guess is that they will easily handle current bursts to 80 or perhaps 100 amps so a 20"-22" prop may be possible with throttle management. The motor mounts easily using the M4 [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/actro-mount.htm]Rubber Damper Shock Mount[/link].

The main revelation here is that for a 1/3 scale size plane, it will actually weigh less than its glow or gas counterpart. Also consider that by accepting a compromise in 3D performance, we can greatly reduce the cost and complexity of our conversion from a dual motor setup using a custom-designed gearbox. The aerobatic pattern performance of this electrified 33% Edge 540 will now be within the realm of possibility for many R/C flyers!
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:35 PM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

The Hangar 9 Edge 540 comes in two big boxes, one for the wing halves and control surfaces and one for the fuselage and fiberglass parts. Everything is individually wrapped in plastic and held in place to eliminate damage from shipping. The quality is excellent! The finished 4-color look is simply fantastic!

All the fiberglass parts are finished and painted. Shown here for a size comparison is the Edge 540 cowl and pant next to my .60-size Graupner Extra 300S.
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Old 09-28-2004, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Cool! Cant wait to hear how it does! But a 20-22" prop on a 33%er?!?!?!
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

The 33% edge that they had at SEFF with 2 Hackers weighed 23 lb with 10s lithiums.

TTYL,
Andrew T.
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Old 09-29-2004, 04:11 AM
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jbflier
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Hi Greg; What charger do you plan on using for this conversions battery pack?
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:27 AM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

DM,

The stock engine for the Edge 540, a [link=http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=ZENE62A&pc=ZENE62A]Zenoah G-62[/link], will turn a 22 x 10 prop at approximately 7200 rpm.

Andy,

Thanks for the information. This model used multiple Lithium packs and a custom metal gearbox. I'm not sure if a receiver battery was used. Often, on these high-end performance setups for demos, they also build in redundancy like multiple receivers, etc.

As stated above, my conversion is aimed for the typical sport flyer in both performance and affordability.

John,

I will use two of the Astro Flight Lipo 109 chargers since my pack will be split into two 5s sections. In the future, I will obtain the Kokam/FMA charger that will have built-in cell balancing. I'm not sure when this charger will become available...likely over the Winter months sometime.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:57 AM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Each wing half stands about 4' high. The covering is top-notch and the construction superb!
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

ORIGINAL: Greg Covey


The Actro 40-4 looks like it can easily deliver power in the 1700 watt range with a current draw between 50-70amps. This could produce a power level in the 80-90 watts per pound using NiCd cells and even better using Lithium cells.

I'll be interested to see how this develops. Looking at the Hobby Lobby page with Actro descriptions, it looks like the 40-6 is rated for the bigger props.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:17 PM
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Darrell B.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Greg,
I'm opting into your conversion thread, and looking forward to seeing how your progress goes.
Good Luck,
Darrell B.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

P-51B,

While the 40-6 is rated for bigger props, the thinner wires only permit a 1200 watt overall output. The thicker wires (because there are less turns) allow you push the rated limits more easily. Notice that the rated limit for the 40-4 is 1700 watts, not 1220 like the 40-6.

I expect the motor to easily handle 2000 watts using throttle management.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Thats why I come here, to learn!
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Old 09-29-2004, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Interesting Greg. I have been running the numbers for the last 10 minutes and it is very doable. This plane will have plenty of w/lb for IMAC/Sport. My guess is it will hover and torque roll, but 3D flight is not the objective here. I will be following this closely.


-Mike
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

The stock engine for the Edge 540, a Zenoah G-62, will turn a 22 x 10 prop at approximately 7200 rpm.
But a G-62 is MINIMUM power option, my Old patty had a BME 50 on it spinning a 22x10, but a full 3d option would spin a 26x10 (DA100). I might be totally wrong, just seems like that is too small of a prop for good performance.

Will be following this thread, and are you going to take a video of its flights for us?


David
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:19 AM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

David,

I don't guarantee success here but i'll broadcast what I discover.

Here are some pictures of the firewall and built-in motor mount box. I am hoping that I can mount the Actro motor right on the end using the rubber damper shock mounts.

Note the built-in right thrust angle.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Steve's Edge had two UBECs running in parallel to one Rx.

Greg,

Your choice of a super light power system may open a potential CG issue.

Steve had 2 C50 acros / 2 - 10S3P packs / two 4 oz. Hacker ESCs / and a stock innerdemon for giant scale planes ....

the packs were well forward of the wing tube....
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Jeff,

Thanks for the information. I'll assume that I can run UBECs in parallel if using diodes.

As for the CG issue, a 4lb battery can easily compensate for a 24oz glow fuel tank and lighter power system. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

We use a diode and extra filtering on both the input and output sides...


I guess I'm missing something about your system.

The power system Steve had was somewhere in the neighborhood of 140 oz???......all this was forward of the wing tube....and he still flew the plane relatively "tailheavy"..(he liked the CG really far aft)
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Ok...who I am thinking about that was running two RX packs and two RX's. Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I was curious about the CG too.


-Mike
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:57 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Jeff,

I think the issue with the CG is that being forward of the wing tube is not as far forward as possible. I have e-conversions with packs forward of the firewall.
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Old 09-30-2004, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

There's plenty of room under the cowl for all or some of the battery pack if necessary. I think you can wear the cowl as a jousting helmet, and that Actro isn't all that big.

When do I get to fly it?
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Old 09-30-2004, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Matt,

You should have no problem flying it since you can easily handle smaller versions. Although more intimidating from the larger size, the bigger planes simply fly better.

I probably won't have it done until next month so perhaps next season.
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Old 10-04-2004, 08:43 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Here are photos of the fuselage inside showing a great deal of space for components and battery packs.

Note that the 2.1AH Kokam cells fit inside the motor mount box forward of the firewall. This looks like and ideal spot for maintaining a proper CG with heavy batteries.
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Don't make me crack the whip!

I hear rumors of a bigger series of AXI motors that are 2+KW capable... If the big Actro doesn't do it, you might have a direct drive backup plan, and you can mail that Actro over here so I can try it in my Ultra Sport 1000.

You've never seen me fly my 1/4 scale CAP232, have you... Makes too much noise for your taste, though
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Old 10-04-2004, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

The 5XXX series should be just a month away. They are running 2.3 meter plans with them on 10S. No realworld data yet, but there are some in Europe flying Comp with them.

-Mike
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