kennydee

Hi guys. I'm still here and still flying electric and glow. I find that electric is fairly affordable with planes up to about 35 ounces. I would love to fly a large electric (40 size or larger) but the cost is prohibitive for me right now. I really enjoy reading about the conversions in the mags but they almost always leave out the cost of the conversion. I recently read an article in Quiet Flyer about how you could fly electric cheaper than glow. Actualy, he said that flying using his LiPoly packs was cheaper than buying glow fuel, but he only figured in the cost of one battery pack(about 200 dollars on the plane he was flying). He didn't mention the extra's, the expensive charger for those large packs, the high cost of the brushless motor and controller(500 to 600 dollars, I'm guessing in the 40 size plane he was flying), the expensive gearbox and last but not least, who fly's with just one battery pack. I've read about glow to electric conversions in several different mags but I don't remember one giving a price list on the conversion parts. Hey, anybody know about a conversion for us normal guys with normal bank accounts? Thanks for letting me vent, I feel better now.

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

Not sure where you are getting you cost. I'm flying a Great Planes Lancair (60 size) using an Axi 41/30/16 outrunner brushless motor($150.00) and a Castle Creations 80 AMP ESC ($100.00 on Ebay). You would need a 20 cell GP3300 NiMh pack($150.00) or 6S4P LiPo pack($460.00). The charger is $125.00. This package with give you up to 6mins flight times(NiMh) or 20 mins (LiPo). It can be expensive but if you check around (ezonemag.com) you can find a lot of inexpensive ways of doing the conversion.
Good Luck,
Bob

mAvRiCk-inactive

Thts top quality stuff man...Prolly a hacker eh?

Dan

Expensive stuff...i use the triton charger...that what u need!!!

ukrconsul

My Feedback: (1)

I doubt that Lancair will fly on LiPo for 30 min. I've flown Kyosho Sonic 1300 (2.7kg) with AXI 4120/18 and 6s3p 6000 MAH LiPo battery - 17 min on 3/4 throttle level flight.
As per electric been less expensive than glow in a long perspective - it is not true.
Actually you do not have to include into your expenses charger as it is a good investment by itself - you can use it for RX/TX packs, glow starter battery and field battery and vice versa for years. The motor + ESC cost almost the same as the cost of glow engine (4 stroke). The only difference in price between electric and glow is the battery - ~ $450 US.
$450 = 30 gallons of fuel = 450 flights on 40 sized plane. Average flight with 4 stroke - 15 min, the same, as with LiPo battery.
You have 56x2=112 weekend days per year. So, four years of weekend flying. Why four? Because you fill fly as with your LiPo battery only one time per day.
By the way, your LiPo battery will also last only for a year and a half (ask your mobile phone).
If you crash - you battery will be dead, ESC dead, motor dead but the model itself you can repair.

I am flying 5 - 7 flights per day on weekends. So I need 3 - 4 batteries $450 each.
You can't use Triton for 6P batteries (LiPo).
Charging time for each battery - 4 - 5 hours. You will spend a lot of time charging your batteries.
You can't keep your LiPo battery in the plane or in the car for obvious reason. To move your batteries in an out of the plane you have to take out the wing.

In my opinion, electric planes from 40 size up do not worth the mess that comes with them.

One flight per day and huge cost of the battery and long charging times are among the main reasons to say "no, thanks". No one reviewer from R/c model magazines will tell you that. It seems to me, they are all trying to assure that electric planes are so cool and affordable. It is partly true, just for small planes, toys. They just want us to buy more and more costly electric motors, ESC, LiPo batteries.
I will not even use the LiPo TX pack on my plane for many reasons.

It is just my opinion.

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

UK,

thats if you use li-poly batts. stick with nimh or nicads and your flights are anywhere from 4min to 10 min depending on plane and motor, # of cells used from what i gather. E-bay has ALOT of good deals on nimh and nicads. i have a AT-6 texan .40 size with a AXI 2820/12 on 12 or 14 cell 3000 nimhs that should get between 7 to 10 min flights of scale flying. and this info comes straight from model motors who makes the AXI series of motors. as of right now i havent flown it yet due to SNOW (yuck) but am looking forward to getting it in the air .

also check out greg coveys hanger 9 AT-6 and hangar 9 corsair conversions for a good insight into electric conversions.


mitch

P.S i already had the motor and esc setup BEFORE i got the info from model motors so no sales pitch was needed to get me to buy the motor

d_wheel

It appears that all of the E-guys are fudging their numbers in favor of flying electrics, and the IC-guys are fudging them in the other direction. My experience is about mid way between what I have read here. On my 60 size E-converted planks, I am getting 3 flights per charge, each around 8 to 12 minutes in length. I can recharge the pack in 3 hours if it is fully discharged, or top it off between flights in 45 minutes to an hour. I usually fly 5 or 6 times each time I go out. More if you count the Slinger flights while the big boy is being topped off. The pack comes out of the plane through a hatch, no need to remove the wing. The pack costs about the same as a barrel of fuel. I am well on my way to getting enough flights out of it to make it cost the same per flight as fuel. I've had a couple of crashes and have yet to damage a motor, controller, or battery pack. It's so much fun that I probably fly more now that I have converted to electric than before.

Another factor in favor of E-power is longevity. With less vibration, and no oil soaking into the wood, a planks life should only be limited by flying skill plus or minus luck. As an example, I had an IC Magic that came apart at the seams in less than six months. Vibration from the big 4 stroke up front along with the oil that weakened the front end soon shook the engine, mount, and firewall right off of the front. I now have an E-powered Magic that looks new after twice as many flights. I can do the same maneuvers (including hovering) that the IC powered one would and I don't have to wipe it down after a day of flying.

Yes, getting started in big electrics is expensive! However, the performance is breathtaking. With proper care and feeding, the expense will be amortized and become fairly close (who knows maybe less) than flying IC. It isn't for everyone, but I see no need to exaggerate in either direction. Folks who like it will continue liking it, those who don't will also continue in that direction.

Later;

D.W.

mAvRiCk-inactive

I want to convert my profiles to electric. But I have two TT Pro 46's sitting around, a saito 72 and an OS 46 fx so I guess i wont be going to electrics anytime soon. I would however one day in the future see the CA YAk go electric. YOU NEED A MONSTER HACKER TO POWER IT I GUESS?!?!? I can almost sit in my friedns Yak. The canopy sits up to my stomach!!!

Weighs about 40lbs or so. You think it could be converted to E Power. Talk about money $$$ ching ching ching!!!

Better hit the Powerball

Dan

Greg Covey

I understand Kenny's concern about the cost of larger electric planes. I have not only experienced this first hand but also deal with the local R/Cers perspectives and fears. The consensus of this perspective is that large electric conversions are more expensive when compared to their glow counterparts.

I find it best to look at the entire industry from a top level perspective. In this manner, you can more easily spot trends without getting confused by the noise level.

One of the biggest changes in R/C airplanes in the past 5 years has been the ARF. The ARF plane can be seen from small electrics to 1/3 scale giants. It brought both good and bad things to the R/C world. I'll stick with a focus on the good things for now. It brought many new R/Cers into the market and drastically increased the segment share for airplanes which was once totally dominated by R/C cars. A newbie could go to the local hobby shop and buy an ARF without spending an entire Winter building...only to end in a heartbroken crash.

As smaller ARFs were made from other materials like EPP foam to make them robust, more and more newcomers flooded into the market. Power systems were slowly optimized and battery cell technology changed from NiCd to NiMH for twice the duration flights. During this time, the average age of the R/C pilot was dropping from the older, more affluent AMA member to the younger generation of instant gratification.

The next phase was RTF packages that were complete starters kits with transmitter and charger included. They evolved from pure crap to very nice designs in only a few years.

Motor manufacturers from other industries noticed the use of large brushless motors for electric flight and started promoting smaller versions already used for other purposes into the R/C market. Prices continued to drop and performance continued to rise.

The e-flight revolution continued with the introduction of Lithium cells into the micro-flight and small parkflyer segments. Again, this was a jump of industries. As the demand grew, new products and vendors grew just like they did with the brushless motors.

Overall, the electric flight market is seeing a continuous and dramatic boom. World champion flyers are now using electric planes and many old timers are favoring electrics for various reasons. For some, the smaller, quieter planes mean a short trip to the open field down the street instead of a 30-60 minute drive to their club flying field. For others, the lighter, easier to carry electric planes extend their hobby days well into their retirement years.

The performance of electric powered planes is rising and the prices are dropping. Most recently, a flood of new direct drive brushless motors has dropped the price even further while simplifying setups. At this point in time, I don't see things leveling off. It is a very exciting time to be in this hobby!

KatManDEW

My Feedback: (6)

You have to realize that the batteries are fuel. At that point, you can throw some simple calculations into a spreadsheet to compute flying costs, or you can use this [link=http://www.lcrcc.net/Fuel_Cost.htm]Fuel Cost Calculator[/link] and fudge numbers to your heart's content. I try to be realistic about it so that I obtain information that I feel is realistic and useful.

jonnyjetprop

My Feedback: (3)

I feel your pain about the cost of electrics, but that is the best thing about this hobby; you have choice. Bulid it yourself, buy an ARF, fly gas ,fly glow or fly electric, just fly and have a great time doing it.

John Pursell

kennydee

Boy, I can always get good info from you guys. I am excited about the new electric stuff, I just get frustrated when I can't get accurate information. I did a little research on one of the recent conversions in the mags (the one that did not list the price of the conversion parts) and found that the cost of the plane complete and ready to fly( not including the transmitter) was well over a thousand dollars. This was for a 40 SIZE PLANE!! Hopefully, we'll see some budget conversions in the near future. The AXI series of out-runner motors are a good choice and I have already been considering using an AXI in a Magic Conversion. I have noticed a little rift developing between the Glow and Electric guys, which seems a little silly to me. In fact, some of the articles in Quiet Flyer seem to suggest you're a pig for flying glow. I also have a glow and gas flying friend at the flying field that won't even look at my electrics, let alone fly one. Gad, it's like the Hatfields and the McCoys or maybe like the Libs and the Conservatives. As for me I will continue to enjoy both!

ukrconsul

My Feedback: (1)

Bassmanh.
What's the weight of your AT-6 Texan? I've been through so many calculations last year playing with electric planes and AXI motors that I can definitely say that you will be greatly disappointed with AXI 2820/12 on your plane with 3000 mah batteries. I suggest to use 1700 mah as a first step, and second, to use AXI 4120/14 if you are going with nicd or mh batteries. I think, It will fly well with weight not exceeding 2.2 kg loaded with AXI 2820 or 2.7 with AXI 4120/14.
And be careful with AXI on top RPM with 14 cells. It will throw its magnets easy. Glue them before that happens with epoxy (between magnets).

As per electric planes I would think about them in 2-3 years.

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

UK,
my AUW on the AT-6 is 5lbs 6 oz thats with the battery`s and everything all set to fly and with the prop of 11X7 or 10X6 prop it gives about 74 watts a pound from model motors site calculations
AND the help of DAVE COVEY.

i know most people want alot of speed and areobatics from there planes but i am looking for scale flying only with my warbirds.

now i am also thinking of converting my black horse models speed air .40 to electric after i have flown the T-6 and the corsair of course



mitch

P.S. UK is your experience from actual flight testing or just from calculations ? just curious as i dont know anyone who has flown these motors yet.

ukrconsul

My Feedback: (1)

From experience.
I've spent the last year trying to get in the air my electric Kyosho Sonic 1300. Just wanted to try something new. Finally I've done that. It cost me around $1000 US and no satisfaction. I 've also made a lot of calculations, also with Motocalc 7. I found the late program inaccurate. My practical numbers were different from Motocalc 7 (30 % difference).
I've made some mistakes at the beginning. First I bought AXI 2140/18 and wanted it to work with 16 cells 3300 mah, it came to 3.2 kg. I was forced to make it with 14 cells 3300 mah and to throw away pilot figure and o replace du-bro wheels (flying from grass). Finally came to 2.800. She wasn't flying, Because AXI 2140/18 isn't designed for 14 cells (AXI 2140/14 does) forced to buy lipo packs. Bought 6s3p 6000mah pack. She came to 2.6 kg and with 13X6 MA wooden prop she was flying pretty well, but not less than on 2/3 throttle, regular aerobatics, nothing impressive. Flight time was 15-17 minutes. Not more. Landings hot.
I was silly to fly in strong wind and gust tuned her over on take of and smashed into the ground after 15 flights. ESC dead, (battery damaged, repaired, now it is 5s3p) motor shortened. I've decided that I am finished with electric planes (especially, one flight per day thing) and rebuild her with Saito 91. She was super with glow engine. I was so happy that flew 6 or 7 times one day and the battery went empty in the air.
Now I am flying chipmunk.
AXI 2820 isn't right for 2,5 kg plane. Even for scale flights. You do not need "74 watts a pound". It's wrong. You need 0.9 hp (it is a glow engine recommended for your plane, at least). Around 600-700 watts of output power, with 75-80% motor efficiency it is coming to 750 - 850 watts of input power. Have you got the picture?
The only thing that can save you with AXI 2820 if your plane has wing area like 38-40 sq. dm.

ukrconsul

My Feedback: (1)

and sad ones

jonnyjetprop

My Feedback: (3)

I'm happy to hear that you enjoy flying glow powered models. You can fly with me at any time. I'm sadden to hear about your elecric experience. For the benefit of those electric flyers out there, I'd like to look at your current project to see if we could find out what went wrong. Cruching the numbers, here is what I got.

Setup #1 weight 7.04 lbs 480 watts or 68 watts/lbs.

Setup #2 weight 6.16 lbs. 420 watts or 68 watts/lbs.

Setup #3 weight 5.72 lbs. 630 watts or 110 watts/lbs.

I can see why setup #3 was by far the best. I like to power my models at 100 watts/lbs. I suggested a lower power level for a scale motorglider like model, but I would still like more "just in case". I also like to pick a power setup that can grow upward. I other words, I want to pick the larger setup, even though it weighs more because I can always add a cell to boost proformance.

With the advent of brushless motors and Li-poly batteries, the electric conversion of ARF's is now possible. They will still be heavier, fly faster and land hotter. I could not find any data about your model, but one has to still keep an eye on wing loading. I still like to build my models from a kit, because I can cut out some of the weight. This closes the weight gap between glow and electric. I do like ARF's because like many others, my time is streched thin.

I don't own a AXI motor at this time. I have several Jeti Phasors that I purchased off RC Universe. However, I have seen several at my local electric only RC club. They seem to work well, but for those who are looking for all out 3D proformance, those pilots seem to be drifting back to geared motors with big propellers. The scale and "sport" guys still love the direct drive motors.

As for the statement "one flight per day", I will tell you about a typical electric flying day for me. Right now I have a Thunder Tiger Lazy P-51 with one TP 3s4p pack and my trusty Mountain Models Tantrum with 4 3s Kolkams. All are charged before I leave home. ( OK, this is a moving target) I fly the P-51 for about 10-12 minutes. ( my choice) I land and put the pack on charge. I fly the Tantrum. I pull the TP pack off the charger (not fully charged). Fly the P-51 and put it back on the charger. A couple of more flights on the Tantrum and the first Tantrum pack is recharged. All this with two chargers (AF 109 and a Triton).

One of our club members has a E3D. He has two TP 3s4p packs. He does not charge at the field at all. He gets two flights of 10 minutes per pack. Four flights in all. 40 total minutes of flying per day. Others flying nicads and ni metal just bring several packs and rotate them as they fly.

I'm sorry that 15 minutes of flying doesn't satisfy you. It wasn't long ago that we were satisfied with 6-7 minutes.

I'm all for having fun with this hobby. I belong to an all electric club (Sarasota Silent Flyers www.sarasotasilentflyers.com) and a normal club with glow, gas, and electric flying together. I wish you the best with your planes.

John Pursell

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Getting the hang of electrics is tough, especially when it comes to getting all the parts to perform the way you want them to perform. You almost have to pick everything at the same time, which really isn't all that different from glow, just more involved. Glow engines come all nicely prepackaged. Setting up an electric is like being able to choose the individual components of a glow engine. Put a .15 cylinder and head on a .91 bottom end, and you're not going to have enough power. It's no wonder many people have trouble.

ukrconsul,

Too bad you're in Australia. I'd be making an offer for your LiPoly pack. It's exactly what I need for my Global Corsair ARF. Hmm, I wonder how much it would cost to ship to the states... Probably too much Best sell it to someone over there.

Jerry Ledford

My Feedback: (15)

Hi, One of my conversions is a Internet RC Cessna 177. The plane weighs 7.5 lbs.I used a speed 700 turbo 9.6v motor with a Graupner 2:1 belt drive,16 sub-c, 1900mah battery pack with a 11/8 prop.It does not burn up the sky but,it flies realistically.I can't bring myself to spend a bundle just to get a plane to fly.I also converted an old modeltech P-51 sloper to electric with a Master Airscrew 3to1 gear drive system.Also a Slowpoke with a Speed 600 and a Olympus belt drive 2.3/1.Just have fun with it. Remember its a hobby. Jerry

davbert

It was mentioned earlier that electric flyers are able to fly in more areas (depending on model size) than gas. This will only get worse for gas flyers in dense population areas. My RC club even has expanded hours for electric flyers only. The costs may be prohibitive for some now. But the noise issues are not going away. Those that don't convert may find themselves taking up a new hobby altogether.

With the adoption of the lipo batteries, I can't see any operational differences between gas or electric aircraft of the same type and class from 1/2A size to 1/4 scale WW1 biplanes. In fact the new World Models 80 inch Zero can be overpowered with current technology. It is a great large electric conversion. The up-front cash outlay to get into high performance electrics is steep and will continue to be the most limiting factor. I was at my all-electric field this morning (not my club field). Half the hovering aerobatic planes flying could have been purchased for under $200 all up. Yes they were park flyers but their smiling pilots were no less enthusiastic about going vertical than a guy flying his $2,500 37% Extra.

Dave

Jim Finn

My Feedback: (2)

I use the three step program concerning flight times for electric. 1: land plane::::::2: switch battery packs::::::: 3 Take off. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Repeat as necessary. Two chargers and more than two packs are required.

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Even electrics aren't safe. In some areas, even electric flyers are coming under fire for being menaces to society, and yes, even for making too much NOISE.

ukrconsul

My Feedback: (1)

It was just an enjoyable expirience. I will do some electric planes again definitly. But not today. I was answerenig the thread's question about the cost when sad "one flight per day". It is no questions - with three-four LiPo packs anyone could fly forever. But to spend more than 1 000 $ US just on batteries for 40 sized plane - it's too much. This size planes are supposed to be inexpensive. Finally, did anyone say that LiPo batteries would last more than for one year and a half?
My LiPo 6000 mah batteries were charging for 4 hours with Triton. I don't know how you can charge them on the field. Usually I do not have more than 4 hours there.

Actually my personal conclusion is that under existing conditions (today's LiPo batteries) 60 size class is better candidate for glow to electric conversion than 40 (sport planes).

As per flying 40 size electric planes anywhere - I can't imagine that.
It is not a toy. It is written on the box. Only club's field.

One more thing. I am not in Australia. that "from: AU" at the left, it's just a bug.

d_wheel

"My LiPo 6000 mah batteries were charging for 4 hours with Triton. I don't know how you can charge them on the field. Usually I do not have more than 4 hours there. "

The Triton, although a good value for it's limited capabilities, is only for smaller size LiPo's. Anything over 2.5 amps and/or 3 series packs will need a more competent charger. I am currently using an Orbit to charge my packs. If I had to wait 4 hours for a charge I might dump E-power also.

40 size conversions are still the best bang for the buck for high performance airplanes at around $700.00 for the power system. But of course, that includes a year or two worth of fuel and a new looking airplane when it's time to buy the next battery pack ...

Later;

D.W.

rcairplanenut

Hi all

I saw some high power electric aircraft yesterday and they where very impressive. It is something I would like to get into, however the bottom line for me is a 200$ battery is equal to a 6 year supply of nitro (2.5 gals/yr)! Battery’s don’t last forever, and you need more then one battery (fly, charge and cool)!

Anyways the guys planes where powered by NiMh sub C cells, does any one know a sensibly priced source for these batteries? I use NiMh batteries for my receivers and I am impressed with there run times and this is what I would like to start out with. Also what are some good mail order links for this type of equipment tower seems limited when it comes to this type of equipment?

SG

StephenT

Guys


Flying, driving or floating RC is expensive. So is golfing, dating, skying, scuba, marriage and other hobbies. I started with electrics, dabbled in glow and went back to only electric. My son flies both.