algutkin

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Edd:

Glad to hear you are busy.....but don't forget you tipped you hand in previous posts, it appears that you convinced the students to do lot of the work for you. LOL

That plane rack thats is your uploaded picture looks exactly like two of the racks in my garage, and that's just to hold the planes I competed this week. LOL Actually, I have almost completed the Hobby Lobby Citabria that I received on Tuesday. My motto, if you can't sleep, get out of bed and accomplish something.
Tax preparation make me loose lots of sleep. Paying taxes, make me loose even more.

Hope you guys know that I was only kidding in the previous posts, at this time of year, the name LaxLife sounds pretty good to me. I really hope the weather clears up here, and I finally get the nerve to try my modified Transall.

To be truthfull, the mods took so much time that working on the plane became a real drag. I don't really have the patience for slow builds. When the project gets to the control horn installation, that's enough of a frustration to make me loose it. Somehow those screws never line up with the backing plate and they end up in my fingers.

More work to do, talk later.

Al

Edd Spidell

Hi Al,

Just a "heads-up" on the Polk C-47 landing gear. Mine (both sides) failed today on a very routine flared landing. The breaks were at the bases, where the hollow plastic tubes meet the flat plates. It slid across the very smooth and short turf on our grass runway at Woodstock (CT) airport. I also lost both MAS triples, snapped one blade each, but that saved the Aveox motors from bent shafts. Already checked them out with a dial indicator gauge - still run true. The breaks were very clean, indicating a weak mold joining spot. There is nothing much inside - small steel rod and spring, very weak system. I am going to build replacements with brass plate/tube/rod and braze the assembly. I had also been using 3" foam wheels, so "plowing the field" wasn't an issue - this was a time-bomb just waiting to happen.

After I get my Mass., RI, and US taxes done, I will start up on the Transall again. Hope to have it flying in a few weeks - and not inside the school! .

Best regards,

Edd

speedaholic

My Feedback: (4)

Here is some pictures of the progress on my c-160, I lowered the landing gear, and have installed the motors, these are 400 watt outrunners i got off ebay. I hope they work good,

Edd Spidell

Hi Speedaholic,

The lowered gear makes a much better looking plane. Good luck with the rest of the build.

Edd

speedaholic

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Welp I have completed mine and did the test flight today, It flew awsome, took right off in not time at all, flew nice at 1/2 throttle, enough power to do nice big loops and rolls, I am running all generic stuff to cut cost, and it paid off, i got everything from ebay, motors were 400w outrunners for about 40$ each, batteries are 3 cell li-poly 2200 mah packs at about 35$ each, I am running 4 in parrallel for a total of 8800mah, and for speed controls i have 2 towerpro60A which are working great so far. Here is some pics of the completed plane, I made a hatch up front for easy battery changes without removing the wing. let me know what you think. I used about 4800 mah on the first flight which i would say was about 5 or 6 minutes with about 5 or 6 touch and goes.

speedaholic

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here are the pics

Van

Congrats on the flights Speedaholic. I must say I never ventured into loops with my Transall. The most I did was rolls.

I should be starting Poly-Hauler #2 in the near future. I'm working on a Great Planes Siren warmliner now. I cut the middle wing section to extract flaps out of it. I think it was a good learning experience. I'm confident I can do the exact same thing with the C-160 to get flap capability without compromising wing stregth or adding much weight. Summer is approaching so I guess I better get to it soon.

speedaholic

My Feedback: (4)

another pic

Baretta92

Here is a video of my friend Ken's Transall C160. He used the Giant Scale planes kit and two Himax outrunners. It flies very well and looks really awesome. I also used this opportunity to test out my new Multipod 5 in 1 camera. Here is a link to the video...Enjoy

http://www.digitalinfection.com/patrick/transall.wmv

Thanks,

Pumi


PS-the exact equipment specs are in the video!

jfail1

My Feedback: (2)

Fantastic video, I really enjoyed it. How did he set up battery access?, remove wing?, access hatch cut in fuse? The video says it's using a Himax 2816 at 1350KV. I can't find a 2816 at 1350, they do list a 2816 at 890Kva and 1220Kva but no 1350?


I am just starting on mine and I am seriously looking at electric power instead of glow.

Baretta92

jfail1,

I may have very well misheard him on the KV numbers. He has not cut any hatches in the fuselage yet so he is getting to the batteries via the wing saddle when the wing is removed. Not the most convenient, but he is working on a hatch of sorts.

Glad you enjoyed the video!


Baretta92

codimasta

My Feedback: (89)

Since I started this thread...I have seen everything under the sun...as far as motors...I have used the AXI 2814-10 motors with Castle Creations 35 Amp Speed control...Swinging a APC 10 X 5 props...LiPoly 11.3 (3 s 2 p) 4000 ma per motor or 8000 ma running in parallel.
The model lands a little on the hot side...I am able to roll it, loop it, stall turns.. etc. Flight time around 8 min. I have not droop the ailerons as flaps yet..since I do not have any trouble landing it. My battery packs are installed through the wing saddle...since you have to wait a little while for the motors to cool down..I see no problem.....Any questions that I had during the conversion, was answered by Hobby Lobby and Castle Creations. At one instance one of've the motors shut down...I powered back,stablized the plane, made it a glider and landed.

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

STOL Transall bites the dust.

Some pages back I displayed pictures of my modified Transall. Here is what I did, and here is what went wrong.

I used the standard setup for power, Axi 2820 motors with APC 10X6 props, 11.1 volts in a 3S configuration.
I expanded the trailing edge of the main wing by making the existing ailerons a permananet part of the wing, I actually did not use the factory ailerons I used balsa hardened with CR.
I cut down the factory ailerons to about 8 inches each and attached them to the trailing edge of each wing as ailerons.
I added mini winglets.
I made huge split flaps.

I flew the plane today and here is what I found.

With the added weight and size of the inlarged wing, the stock elevator became way too small. The first few takeoff attempts resulted in abortions, the plane could not lift off. I modifed the elevator throw and my son volunteered to fly the plane. He got it into the air, however, he had to fly it aroud the pattern with 3/4 up elevator. Since I programmed rudder mix and aileron, at every turn the plane lost altitude and was a bear to bring back up to level. I still hear his swear words ringing in my ears. Yep, I let him fly, he is a better RC pilot and has bigger balls than me.

The plane used up the whole runway, got airborne, but did not perform as planned, I quickly announced my resignation as aeronautical engineer of the month, the Transall was definately not a Short Takeoff Bird. However, my son got frustrated with this piece of junk that he was flying, so to avoid a potential crash on the main runway he put it in the brush, level flight, high speed. It did not survive and it lived up to it's design, it landed in a short field, with tall brush and *****er bushes.

In retrospect, take a look at size of the elevator, it does not appear to be anywhere near scale size. Why didn't I think about that before? The final conclusion, The plane is junk to start with, and I was really a big fool to spend so much time trying make the junker fly better. I just fired myself as chief aeronautical engineer of my family, I will keep my present job and only fly airplanes designed and proven by the real experts.

Al Gutkin.....

Van

Sorry to hear of your problems Al. I can understand moving on to other projects.

I haven't done much to Transall #2. I just modified a warmliner with the addition of flaps and gained some good experience along the way. I plan on adding flaps to my Transall by just cutting them out of the center wing section to the same chord as the ailerons. This shouldn't add any appreciable weight to the plane, but may help out with slowing the plane down for landings. With this I can add in radio mix to raise the ailerons slightly when flaps are down. This should act as extra washout and (hopefully) help keep the plane from snapping.

I was thinking about starting on a Wacky Waco that I'm converting to electric (E-flite 60 brushless and 6 cell (two 3S in series) 4000mah battery power. Maybe I should hold off for a little and get the Transall on the table first. I did enjoy my first one and can only blame myself for its demise.

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

Follow up to my preveious post about my failure to modify the Transall and make it a STOL.

I figured out what the problem is, and I believe I might have actually mentioned it in a previous post back when I was considering the modifications. Most STOL aircraft have a flying tail, the Transall does not. In other words, air flow to the tail is blocked by the main wing, especially on rotation. I made the situataion worse when I enlarged and extended the trailing edge of the existing wing by over 3 inches. No wonder there was very little elevator control.

I think there might still be a chance to make this plane emulate a C130,

Modify the tail, strengthen the rudder and mount the elevator much higher up making it a flying tail.
Convert this aircraft to 4 engines.
Add fowler type flaps.

Im not giving up, as I cannot find a built up ARF C-130 ARF kit to buy. Foam is out,so that eliminates most kits. The project is not dead yet, stay tuned.

Al

Van

Good on ya Al. I was also thinking, the enlarge wing chord would also affect the c/g location. If you kept the c/g at the same point as the stick wing then you'd have a more nose heavy plane that would require more elevator to control. That coupled with your thoughts could have been the problem.

I stripped the covering off my Transall wing and will soon start on cutting out flaps from the center section. My flaps will be the same chord size as the ailerons. It might not make a huge difference at that size, but it might help. I'll keep y'all posted as I do the mods and (eventually) fly the plane.

Van

I started back on Transall #2. I'm adding flaps to this one. The TE of the wing is solid balsa stock. I first cut the flap to the forward edge of the TE stock. After doing this the TE of the center wing section and outer wing panels weren't flush, so I trimmed back the flap opening a little more. I cut through the top of the wing and ribs, leaving the bottom of the wing intact to make a shelf. Next I cut to size 1/2" square balsa stock. This is sits and is glued to the shelf, ribs and upper surface. The stock was then trimmed down with a razor plane to match the contour of the upper wing surface. I'm planning on attaching the flap with Robart hinges to give it a slotted flap type actuation. Time will tell if the effort was worth it, but it wasn't much work to add in anyway. Oh, each flap will be controlled by individual servos. FWIW, the shear web in the wing is not balsa, but lite-ply. I'd say it's plenty strong enough as my first Transall wing didn't totally shatter from its crash.

gman

My Feedback: (1)

Received Transall C-160 ARF 7-10-06. I have noticed some threads stating that some maiden flights have required a lot of up elevator trim to reach level flight. I may have missed replys in regard to suggested solutions. Here's my two cents worth of discovery. When I opened the box everything was ok. Remembering the thread comments I decided to check stab to wing alignment as is from the factory moulded into the fuse. I mounted the wing in the fuse saddle and placed the stab through the slot already cut in the fiberglass fuse. The leading edge of the stab is 3 degrees positive relative to the wing. This existing stab position would produce a nose down pitch and require a considerable amount of up trim to maintain level flight. In high wing loading conditions( steep turns) hard elevator pulls could result in unexpected stalling of the horizontal stab. I am going to have to cut adjustments in the fuse to bring the stab into alignment with the wing. Anybody seen this already? I would appreciate any feed back.

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

Gman,

I think you are absolutely right. My last Transall would barely leave the ground. Even though I have not posted to this thread lately, I just fininshed construction of another Transall, it is set to go. I decided to try to make this bird fly perfect by paying more attention to the power requirements. This Transall is equipped with Axi 2820 motors and 9X6 APC E props. If you read the info in this thread, you will see that most have used larger props, even me. Motocalc is very specific, with this power setup only 9X6 will work well. Using hindsight, my new Transall comes out to weigh 9 lbs and I probably should be using larger motors. However this setup should work, but, not the best.

There are two things that I suspected might be wrong with the kit.

1. The CG may not be correct on the older models. The model that I just finished suggests a CG of 68MM back from the leading edge. I ran the specs. in a CG program and came up with CG from 68MM back to 72MM back, so this one seems to be OK with CG.

2. While checking the CG I did notice that the main wing did not have any up angle, or camber. This bothered me as it bothers you, however, I did not check it agains the rear stab. I made, what might be, a bad assumption, that the plane is one of those that flies nose down.

3. The elevator is very small considering the size and weight of the model.

In summary, I don't know if I will try to change the wing camber, I will think about it for a few days first. I can't change the stab, but I can build up the main wing saddle instead.

Al

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

I think that I might have been incorrrect in my prior post when it comes to aironautical terminology. Instead of wing camber, it probably should be wing incidence. Somewhere, back in my memory bank of info, I seem to remember that the wing incidence of an aircraft should be approx. 3 degrees. Does that make sense to anyone?

To fix the problem, if it is really a problem, I might use some soft material to build up the saddle. I'll wait a few days though, want to hear from some of the aeronautical engineer types first.

Norm Goyer, where are you?

Al

gman

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Al for the reply. Good info. I love to build ARF's and this easy kit will be completed by this coming week end if the motors and bats. get here today. I hinged the ailerons and joined the wing sections last nite. All the wing parts fit and their alignment was perfect. The factory cover job on this kit is flawless, not one lose corner or wrinkle (lucky I guess). The fuse bulkheads feel and appear to be glued in good. No wheel collars at all in this kit. Had to drill out the wheels to axle size. The double wheel axle on the nose gear on one side is machined too short. I can upgrade that, no problem. How did some of the 160 builders go about raising the fixed main gear a little for a more scale ground appearance ? I have seen the nose gear mod threads, no problem. Did they have to bend a new main gear wire ? The wing shape and air foil look to be a high stall speed.

algutkin

My Feedback: (1)

Gman,

My kits, and I have built two previous kits, all have had the same particulars. This white kit really looks good, the previous kits were cameo. Anyhow, there are no collars, the axles are drilled at the ends and those small cotter pins are used to hold on the wheels. My front axels are the same as yours, shorter on one side, the nut barely screws on. The main wheels have to be squashed to install them, and some have to be drilled out so they will turn freely. The batteries should be placed right in front of the former, where the front wing bolts are located. I actually cut in a front hatch, at the first round window, back from the main cockpit windows, so that I could move the batteries without taking the main wing on and off. There is not enough room in the servo area for all the wires, so, I also use the hatch to connect the batteries and most of the heavy wires are forward of the saddle area and the batteries.

Since I am trying to make this kit perfect, I actually ran the specs. through motocalc. It seem that anyway you enter the parameters, this kit has high wing loading and must fly fast to fly good. My previous Transall was modified with flaps and an enlarged main wing in order to make it more like a short takeoff bird. This mod. failed miserably, probably because the wing incidence was way off. I thought the bird was really nose heavy, when actually it might have been set up to just fly down. It barely left the ground after a long takeoff run and required severe up elevator to just fly level. All turns resulted in loss of altitude and near stalls. For safety reasons my son just crashed it, he gave up trying to control it on the base to final turn.

Hope I helped.

Al

gman

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Al,
I will let you know how it goes from here. Please do the same as pros/cons materialize.

Van

I flew my Transall with Axi 2820-10 motors on APC 10x5.5E props. The higher diameter gives more thrust. It's been a while since I crashed my first and I haven't finished with my second. Shimming the LE of the wing to reduce the needed up trim is a simple fix and several layers (adding one layer at a time) of 1/16" ply across the wing saddle at the LE should help neuatralize the elevator trim.

As for the gear. My first C-160 was the GSP version. My replacement is the 'odd-ball' from e-bay (looks almost the same, but less expensive). The odd-ball one has taller main landing gear wires and the axles are shorter. To reduce the height you could just rebend your own wires to the height required...for me, I'm going to reuse the gear from my first plane. I also added slotted flaps to my wing...we'll have to see how much (if) they make a difference in slowing down the landing speed. My wing is ready to cover, I just need to spend the time to do it and get it put together.

gman

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Van, Time to get out that wire bended I bought. That main gear will be a challenge cause it looks like a chinese puzzle. I may get lazy and use a torch instead.